No one has been able to answer this yet...

prodromos said:

That icon certainly shows a Western influence.

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GoingByzantine said:

Apparently it is a 16th century icon from the isle of Crete, I am not sure if the Greeks were in power at that time...

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Apparently when Crete changed hands, the Greek Church copied and continued the Cretan iconography (as in the fresco from Mt Athos below). My point is that such icons reflect a number of ideas introduced from the West (as prodromos also points out), and not a traditional understanding of John 20:17.

Soyeong said:

In any case, ritual purity is the main reason why a Jew would not want to be touched by someone who was close to them.

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I think it would be a huge mistake to see our risen Lord as merely a Jewish man.

Indeed, that's the whole point of what St John Chrysostom is saying.

Radagast said:

I think it would be a huge mistake to see our risen Lord as merely a Jewish man.

Indeed, that's the whole point of what St John Chrysostom is saying.

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He was born a Jew, raised a Jew, became a Jewish rabbi, had Jewish disciples, is the Jewish Messiah, fulfilled Jewish prophecies, and will return as the Lion of Judah, so it would be a huge mistake to try to remove him from from the context in which he chose to reveal himself.

Soyeong said:

He was born a Jew, raised a Jew, became a Jewish rabbi, had Jewish disciples, is the Jewish Messiah, fulfilled Jewish prophecies, and will return as the Lion of Judah, so it would be a huge mistake to try to remove him from from the context in which he chose to reveal himself.

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I think you're straying outside of Orthodox teaching here; but I'm just a guest in TAW.

Radagast said:

I think you're straying outside of Orthodox teaching here; but I'm just a guest in TAW.

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How is he straying, that is all true...

I think it relates to the ascension, the Apostles were distressed to the point they couldn't hardly speak because Jesus said he was leaving.

Unfortunately we are getting into various speculation.

So far, the Scriptures and the commentary by St. John Chrysostom have the greatest authority (though if we had even additional sources to agree with him, that would be still better).

St. John Chrysostom's words are in accordance both with the compassionate nature of Our Lord, and with the understanding of Who Christ is, which did need to undergo an elevating in the minds of all who knew Him.




Everything from here on is only my personal opinion.


Anyway, it makes sense to me that Mary would have been overjoyed and desired to cling to (hug) Him perhaps, or hold His feet. And it also makes sense that such physical and familiar intimacy would not be appropriate in the same circumstance as before.

It is somewhat like when Christ was transfigured (though I don't say He had the visual glory at this meeting - just that He is now in a physically glorified state). Peter was in awe and somewhat beside himself (though he had Moses and Elijah to wonder at as well). But they didn't run up to Jesus and slap Him on the back and congratulate Him.



I'm afraid the idea of ritual uncleanness seems weak to me. Christ had just been in the realm of the dead, surrounded by dead people. Of course they weren't in their physical bodies, but if uncleanness has a spiritual importance, it seems like this would weaken that idea.

PittBullMom said:

In the book of Luke, when Mary Magdalene saw Jesus, He said to her-do not touch me for I have not yet ascended to my Father.

Later he let Luke touch his wounds.


Why couldn't she touch him? What did it have to do with Him ascending to His Father? And why was Luke allowed to touch His wounds?

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First of all, you are mistaken, this account was not written about in the book of Luke, nor was Luke present at any time to touch Jesus, nor was he one of the twelve apostles. He was a physician and learned from Paul, then authored Luke and Acts. He never claimed being a witness to Christ personally. So your whole premise is wrong, but in my first post, I gave you that courtesy and a little latitude of your error and addressed the account both in Matthew and John.
He ascended into heaven to see His Father prior to His visitation in the upper room where Thomas touched his wounds. Yeshua Haderekh has it right. He is our High Priest and presented Himself first, holy, pure and untouched to His Father. He had to report to His Father first to be given all authority and to be granted the scroll (see Rev. 4) Btw, Jesus instructed her to tell the disciples that He must ascend to His Father straight away -- the implication was NOW, before He would visit anyone else.

Ronald said:

He ascended into heaven to see His Father prior to His visitation in the upper room where Thomas touched his wounds.

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No.

Radagast said:

No.

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Why not?

PittBullMom said:

I fixed it. I have no idea what I was thinking when I typed that lol. Yes it was John with the dialog with Mary.

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We all understood that was what you meant, just didn't feel the need to publicly correct you

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Why not?

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Jesus is God. Nothing separates Him from the Father.

prodromos said:

I don't think this quite qualifies as the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything. Close, but not quite

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That is the answer. The problem is that the OP is asking the wrong question.

prodromos said:

Jesus is God. Nothing separates Him from the Father.

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He was when He became sin and died on the cross. The Father did not become a man and dwell among us, nor did He die on the cross as a man. The Son emptied himself and put aside His glory temporarily and then received it when again after He accomplished His mission and when He ascended to heaven.

Folks ... please be reminded that this is the Eastern Orthodox subforum.

Visitors are welcomed, and may post in fellowship and ask questions, but in community forums on CF, visitors are not to post in disagreement with the community.

We do have a forum set up in which we invite debate, or questioning where you may wish to disagree - St. Justin Martyr's. But not in TAW. We would respectfully ask that you follow the rules, particularly as this is the season of the Nativity Fast for many of us. Thank you.

prodromos said:

Jesus is God. Nothing separates Him from the Father.

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Not catching your drift Prodromos.

PittBullMom said:

I'm not looking for the reason he said don't cling or touch, I want to know the connection with going to the Father.

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.
EVERYONE, READ MATT. 28:9

Mat 28:9
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

PittBullMom said:

In the book of John, when Mary Magdalene saw Jesus, He said to her-do not touch me for I have not yet ascended to my Father.

Later he let *Thomas* touch his wounds.


Why couldn't she touch him? What did it have to do with Him ascending to His Father? And why was *Thomas* allowed to touch His wounds?

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Sorry if this has already been said as I have not' read through the entire thread.
But most likely her clinging onto Christ was an attempt to prevent him from leaving, conveying the belief he will establish an earthly kingdom and an earthly rule. He rode into Jerusalem with everyone flanking him crying out Hoseanna. Some disciples thought the time was coming that they would have a rebellion, overthrow the Romans and install Christ as king (see Luke 22:28-38). Many even theorize that Judas was tricked into betraying Christ thinking the jews wanted to take him and proclaim him king echoing John 6:15.

Mary Magdelene is still clinging to this hope. Christ is saying do not cling to me for I have to ascend and sit on my eternal heavenly throne not establish myself as a temporal king of the jews. Cleopas was still expecting an earthly kingdom Luke 24:21. As were the disciples Acts 1:6-7. So the incident with Mary Magdalene is cryptically telling us she didn't want him to depart to the right hand of His Father but to remain and establish his kingdom on earth.