Christmas is a pagan holiday?!

Dave Watchman

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2014
1,420
603
✟67,573.00
Faith
Christian
Well it must be true it is on the internet at anonymous websites, written by unknown people of unknown qualifications.


PARENTE FILIO MERCURIO FECE
RUNT QUI VIXIT ANN V ET MENSES VIII
NATUS IN PACE ID FEBR

Where "natus in pace" clearly refers to eternal rest. So again Origen had evidently some similar thought before him when he insists that "of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world below"
(Origen, in Levit., Hom. VIII, in Migne P.G., XII, 495).

Sources
KRIEG in KRAUS, Realencyklopadie; KELLNER, Heortology (Eng. Tr. London, 1907); PROBST, Kirch. Disciplin in den drei ersten Christ. Jahrhunderten (Tübingen, 1873).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Natal Day
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Natal Day
The anniversary of a person's death

If you can't trust the Catholic Encyclopedia, who can you trust?
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,185.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
PARENTE FILIO MERCURIO FECE
RUNT QUI VIXIT ANN V ET MENSES VIII
NATUS IN PACE ID FEBR

Where "natus in pace" clearly refers to eternal rest. So again
Origen had evidently some similar thought before him when he insists that "of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world below"
(Origen, in Levit., Hom. VIII, in Migne P.G., XII, 495).
Sources
KRIEG in KRAUS, Realencyklopadie; KELLNER, Heortology (Eng. Tr. London, 1907); PROBST, Kirch. Disciplin in den drei ersten Christ. Jahrhunderten (Tübingen, 1873).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Natal Day
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Natal Day
The anniversary of a person's death

If you can't trust the Catholic Encyclopedia, who can you trust?
How about the other quotes?
 
Upvote 0

Dave Watchman

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2014
1,420
603
✟67,573.00
Faith
Christian
How about the other quotes?

This appears to be an educated resource and came from these sources.

SOURCES:

[1] Addison G. Wright, Roland E. Murphy, Joseph A. Fitzmyer, “A History of Israel” in The Jerome Biblical Commentary, (Prentice Hall: Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1990), p. 1247.
[2] The first mention of a Nativity feast appears in the Philocalian calendar, a Roman document from 354 CE, which lists December 25th as the day of Jesus’ birth.
[3] Increase Mather, A Testimony against Several Prophane and Superstitious Customs, Now Practiced by Some in New England (London, 1687), p. 35. See also Stephen Nissenbaum, The Battle for Christmas: A Cultural History of America’s Most Cherished Holiday, New York: Vintage Books, 1997, p. 4.
[4] Nissenbaum, p. 3.
[5] David I. Kertzer, The Popes Against the Jews: The Vatican’s Role in the Rise of Modern Anti-Semitism, New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 2001, p. 74.
[6] Kertzer, p. 33, 74-5.
[7] Clement Miles, Christmas Customs and Traditions: Their History and Significance, New York: Dover Publications, 1976, pp. 178, 263-271.
[8] Miles, p. 273.
[9] Miles, p. 274-5.
[10] Miles, pp. 276-279.
[11] John 8:44


I. When was Jesus born?

A. Popular myth puts his birth on December 25th in the year 1 C.E.
B. The New Testament gives no date or year for Jesus’ birth. The earliest gospel – St. Mark’s, written about 65 CE – begins with the baptism of an adult Jesus. This suggests that the earliest Christians lacked interest in or knowledge of Jesus’ birthdate.
C. The year of Jesus birth was determined by Dionysius Exiguus, a Scythian monk, “abbot of a Roman monastery. His calculation went as follows:
a. In the Roman, pre-Christian era, years were counted from ab urbe condita (“the founding of the City” [Rome]). Thus 1 AUC signifies the year Rome was founded, 5 AUC signifies the 5th year of Rome’s reign, etc.
b. Dionysius received a tradition that the Roman emperor Augustus reigned 43 years, and was followed by the emperor Tiberius.
c. Luke 3:1,23 indicates that when Jesus turned 30 years old, it was the 15th year of Tiberius reign.
d. If Jesus was 30 years old in Tiberius’ reign, then he lived 15 years under Augustus (placing Jesus birth in Augustus’ 28th year of reign).
e. Augustus took power in 727 AUC. Therefore, Dionysius put Jesus birth in 754 AUC.
f. However, Luke 1:5 places Jesus’ birth in the days of Herod, and Herod died in 750 AUC – four years before the year in which Dionysius places Jesus birth.
D. Joseph A. Fitzmyer – Professor Emeritus of Biblical Studies at the Catholic University of America, member of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, and former president of the Catholic Biblical Association – writing in the Catholic Church’s official commentary on the New Testament[1], writes about the date of Jesus’ birth, “Though the year [of Jesus birth is not reckoned with certainty, the birth did not occur in AD 1. The Christian era, supposed to have its starting point in the year of Jesus birth, is based on a miscalculation introduced ca. 533 by Dionysius Exiguus.”
E. The DePascha Computus, an anonymous document believed to have been written in North Africa around 243 CE, placed Jesus birth on March 28. Clement, a bishop of Alexandria (d. ca. 215 CE), thought Jesus was born on November 18. Based on historical records, Fitzmyer guesses that Jesus birth occurred on September 11, 3 BCE.

II. How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?

A. Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.
B. The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).
C. In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]
D. The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.
E. Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.
F. The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”[3] Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681.[4] However, Christmas was and still is celebrated by most Christians.
G. Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city. An eyewitness account reports, “Before they were to run, the Jews were richly fed, so as to make the race more difficult for them and at the same time more amusing for spectators. They ran… amid Rome’s taunting shrieks and peals of laughter, while the Holy Father stood upon a richly ornamented balcony and laughed heartily.”[5]
H. As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the ghetto in Rome were forced to wear clownish outfits and march through the city streets to the jeers of the crowd, pelted by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation.”[6] On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country. In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers maimed, and many Jewish women were raped. Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed.

III. The Origins of Christmas Customs

A. The Origin of Christmas Tree
Just as early Christians recruited Roman pagans by associating Christmas with the Saturnalia, so too worshippers of the Asheira cult and its offshoots were recruited by the Church sanctioning “Christmas Trees”.[7] Pagans had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Church.

B. The Origin of Mistletoe
Norse mythology recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim.[8] The Christian custom of “kissing under the mistletoe” is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.[9]

C. The Origin of Christmas Presents
In pre-Christian Rome, the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas (see below).[10]

D. The Origin of Santa Claus

a. Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He died in 345 CE on December 6th. He was only named a saint in the 19th century.
b. Nicholas was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament. The text they produced portrayed Jews as “the children of the devil”[11] who sentenced Jesus to death.
c. In 1087, a group of sailors who idolized Nicholas moved his bones from Turkey to a sanctuary in Bari, Italy. There Nicholas supplanted a female boon-giving deity called The Grandmother, or Pasqua Epiphania, who used to fill the children's stockings with her gifts. The Grandmother was ousted from her shrine at Bari, which became the center of the Nicholas cult. Members of this group gave each other gifts during a pageant they conducted annually on the anniversary of Nicholas’ death, December 6.
d. The Nicholas cult spread north until it was adopted by German and Celtic pagans. These groups worshipped a pantheon led by Woden –their chief god and the father of Thor, Balder, and Tiw. Woden had a long, white beard and rode a horse through the heavens one evening each Autumn. When Nicholas merged with Woden, he shed his Mediterranean appearance, grew a beard, mounted a flying horse, rescheduled his flight for December, and donned heavy winter clothing.
e. In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th.
f. In 1809, the novelist Washington Irving (most famous his The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle) wrote a satire of Dutch culture entitled Knickerbocker History. The satire refers several times to the white bearded, flying-horse riding Saint Nicholas using his Dutch name, Santa Claus.
g. Dr. Clement Moore, a professor at Union Seminary, read Knickerbocker History, and in 1822 he published a poem based on the character Santa Claus: “Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in the hope that Saint Nicholas soon would be there…” Moore innovated by portraying a Santa with eight reindeer who descended through chimneys.
h. The Bavarian illustrator Thomas Nast almost completed the modern picture of Santa Claus. From 1862 through 1886, based on Moore’s poem, Nast drew more than 2,200 cartoon images of Santa for Harper’s Weekly. Before Nast, Saint Nicholas had been pictured as everything from a stern looking bishop to a gnome-like figure in a frock. Nast also gave Santa a home at the North Pole, his workshop filled with elves, and his list of the good and bad children of the world. All Santa was missing was his red outfit.
i. In 1931, the Coca Cola Corporation contracted the Swedish commercial artist Haddon Sundblom to create a coke-drinking Santa. Sundblom modeled his Santa on his friend Lou Prentice, chosen for his cheerful, chubby face. The corporation insisted that Santa’s fur-trimmed suit be bright, Coca Cola red. And Santa was born – a blend of Christian crusader, pagan god, and commercial idol.

IV. The Christmas Challenge
· Christmas has always been a holiday celebrated carelessly. For millennia, pagans, Christians, and even Jews have been swept away in the season’s festivities, and very few people ever pause to consider the celebration’s intrinsic meaning, history, or origins.
· Christmas celebrates the birth of the Christian god who came to rescue mankind from the “curse of the Torah.” It is a 24-hour declaration that Judaism is no longer valid.
· Christmas is a lie. There is no Christian church with a tradition that Jesus was really born on December 25th.
· December 25 is a day on which Jews have been shamed, tortured, and murdered.
· Many of the most popular Christmas customs – including Christmas trees, mistletoe, Christmas presents, and Santa Claus – are modern incarnations of the most depraved pagan rituals ever practiced on earth.

Many who are excitedly preparing for their Christmas celebrations would prefer not knowing about the holiday’s real significance. If they do know the history, they often object that their celebration has nothing to do with the holiday’s monstrous history and meaning. “We are just having fun.”

Imagine that between 1933-45, the Nazi regime celebrated Adolf Hitler’s birthday – April 20 – as a holiday. Imagine that they named the day, “Hitlerday,” and observed the day with feasting, drunkenness, gift-giving, and various pagan practices. Imagine that on that day, Jews were historically subject to perverse tortures and abuse, and that this continued for centuries.

Now, imagine that your great-great-great-grandchildren were about to celebrate Hitlerday. April 20th arrived. They had long forgotten about Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen. They had never heard of gas chambers or death marches. They had purchased champagne and caviar, and were about to begin the party, when someone reminded them of the day’s real history and their ancestors’ agony.

Imagine that they initially objected, “We aren’t celebrating the Holocaust; we’re just having a little Hitlerday party.” If you could travel forward in time and meet them; if you could say a few words to them, what would you advise them to do on Hitlerday?

On December 25, 1941, Julius Streicher, one of the most vicious of Hitler’s assistants, celebrated Christmas by penning the following editorial in his rabidly Antisemitic newspaper, Der Stuermer:

If one really wants to put an end to the continued prospering of this curse from heaven that is the Jewish blood, there is only one way to do it: to eradicate this people, this Satan’s son, root and branch

The link: Origin of Christmas | The history of Christmas and how it began

Der you go.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,428
26,868
Pacific Northwest
✟731,314.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25.

Nope. Saturanalia was celebrated from December 17th to December 23rd. Not December 25th.

In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]
D. The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

Nope. Again, Saturnalia lasted from the 17th to the 23rd. There's nothing to connect Saturnalia with Christmas. Your source seems to be confusing Saturnalia with the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, a celebration of the "birth" of the unconquered sun (Sol Invictus) established by Aurelian in the late 3rd century. Further, as I explained in a previous post, Christians had been suggesting December 25th (among other dates) as the day of Christ's birth decades prior to the establishment of the Sol Invictus cult. Any connection between the Dies Natalis and Christmas is, at best, of a very weak, incredibly thin thread.

You may want to invest in better sources.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,428
26,868
Pacific Northwest
✟731,314.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Macrobius in his Saturnalia records that originally Saturnalia had been celebrated only on the 16th Kalends of January (December 17th) but over time grew to a seven day festival initially with days added to it by Julius Caesar with his calendar reforms, under Augustus the festival was limited to only the three days, the day itself (the 17th) and the two additional days added by Caesar. But frequently, and ultimately it is the seven days of Saturnalia that persisted.

Source: Saturnalia 1.10

Saturnalia was increased to five days under Caligula, Sueteonius' Life of Caligula XVII ("Furthermore, to make a permanent addition to the public gaiety, he added a day to the Saturnalia, and called it Juvenalis."), Cassius Dio's Roman History LIX.6.4 ("And he increased their hopes still further by ordering that the celebration of the Saturnalia should extend over five days")

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Nowhere in the New Testament does the word "holiday" appear. Christ Jesus might have been with his family but He had no holiday ...He was "on the job" 24/7 ... even the Jewish Sabbaths.
Call those holidays by some other term and we're still referring to the same thing.
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,185.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
This appears to be an educated resource and came from these sources.
SOURCES:

[1] Addison G. Wright, Roland E. Murphy, Joseph A. Fitzmyer, “A History of Israel” in The Jerome Biblical Commentary, (Prentice Hall: Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1990), p. 1247.
[2] The first mention of a Nativity feast appears in the Philocalian calendar, a Roman document from 354 CE, which lists December 25th as the day of Jesus’ birth.
[3] Increase Mather, A Testimony against Several Prophane and Superstitious Customs, Now Practiced by Some in New England (London, 1687), p. 35. See also Stephen Nissenbaum, The Battle for Christmas: A Cultural History of America’s Most Cherished Holiday, New York: Vintage Books, 1997, p. 4.
[4] Nissenbaum, p. 3.
[5] David I. Kertzer, The Popes Against the Jews: The Vatican’s Role in the Rise of Modern Anti-Semitism, New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 2001, p. 74.
[6] Kertzer, p. 33, 74-5.
[7] Clement Miles, Christmas Customs and Traditions: Their History and Significance, New York: Dover Publications, 1976, pp. 178, 263-271.
[8] Miles, p. 273.
[9] Miles, p. 274-5.
[10] Miles, pp. 276-279.
[11] John 8:44
How many of these have you actually read?
I. When was Jesus born?
A. Popular myth puts his birth on December 25th in the year 1 C.E.
B. The New Testament gives no date or year for Jesus’ birth. The earliest gospel – St. Mark’s, written about 65 CE – begins with the baptism of an adult Jesus. This suggests that the earliest Christians lacked interest in or knowledge of Jesus’ birthdate.
C. The year of Jesus birth was determined by Dionysius Exiguus, a Scythian monk, “abbot of a Roman monastery. His calculation went as follows:
a. In the Roman, pre-Christian era, years were counted from ab urbe condita (“the founding of the City” [Rome]). Thus 1 AUC signifies the year Rome was founded, 5 AUC signifies the 5th year of Rome’s reign, etc.
b. Dionysius received a tradition that the Roman emperor Augustus reigned 43 years, and was followed by the emperor Tiberius.
c. Luke 3:1,23 indicates that when Jesus turned 30 years old, it was the 15th year of Tiberius reign.
d. If Jesus was 30 years old in Tiberius’ reign, then he lived 15 years under Augustus (placing Jesus birth in Augustus’ 28th year of reign).
e. Augustus took power in 727 AUC. Therefore, Dionysius put Jesus birth in 754 AUC.
f. However, Luke 1:5 places Jesus’ birth in the days of Herod, and Herod died in 750 AUC – four years before the year in which Dionysius places Jesus birth.
D. Joseph A. Fitzmyer – Professor Emeritus of Biblical Studies at the Catholic University of America, member of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, and former president of the Catholic Biblical Association – writing in the Catholic Church’s official commentary on the New Testament[1], writes about the date of Jesus’ birth, “Though the year [of Jesus birth is not reckoned with certainty, the birth did not occur in AD 1. The Christian era, supposed to have its starting point in the year of Jesus birth, is based on a miscalculation introduced ca. 533 by Dionysius Exiguus.”
E. The DePascha Computus, an anonymous document believed to have been written in North Africa around 243 CE, placed Jesus birth on March 28. Clement, a bishop of Alexandria (d. ca. 215 CE), thought Jesus was born on November 18. Based on historical records, Fitzmyer guesses that Jesus birth occurred on September 11, 3 BCE.
II. How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?
A. Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.
B. The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).
C. In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]
D. The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.
E. Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.
F. The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”[3] Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681.[4] However, Christmas was and still is celebrated by most Christians.
G. Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city. An eyewitness account reports, “Before they were to run, the Jews were richly fed, so as to make the race more difficult for them and at the same time more amusing for spectators. They ran… amid Rome’s taunting shrieks and peals of laughter, while the Holy Father stood upon a richly ornamented balcony and laughed heartily.”[5]
H. As part of the Saturnalia carnival throughout the 18th and 19th centuries CE, rabbis of the ghetto in Rome were forced to wear clownish outfits and march through the city streets to the jeers of the crowd, pelted by a variety of missiles. When the Jewish community of Rome sent a petition in1836 to Pope Gregory XVI begging him to stop the annual Saturnalia abuse of the Jewish community, he responded, “It is not opportune to make any innovation.”[6] On December 25, 1881, Christian leaders whipped the Polish masses into Antisemitic frenzies that led to riots across the country. In Warsaw 12 Jews were brutally murdered, huge numbers maimed, and many Jewish women were raped. Two million rubles worth of property was destroyed.
III. The Origins of Christmas Customs
A. The Origin of Christmas Tree
Just as early Christians recruited Roman pagans by associating Christmas with the Saturnalia, so too worshippers of the Asheira cult and its offshoots were recruited by the Church sanctioning “Christmas Trees”.[7] Pagans had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Church.
B. The Origin of Mistletoe
Norse mythology recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim.[8] The Christian custom of “kissing under the mistletoe” is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.[9]
C. The Origin of Christmas Presents
In pre-Christian Rome, the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas (see below).[10]
D. The Origin of Santa Claus
a. Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He died in 345 CE on December 6th. He was only named a saint in the 19th century.
b. Nicholas was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament. The text they produced portrayed Jews as “the children of the devil”[11] who sentenced Jesus to death.
c. In 1087, a group of sailors who idolized Nicholas moved his bones from Turkey to a sanctuary in Bari, Italy. There Nicholas supplanted a female boon-giving deity called The Grandmother, or Pasqua Epiphania, who used to fill the children's stockings with her gifts. The Grandmother was ousted from her shrine at Bari, which became the center of the Nicholas cult. Members of this group gave each other gifts during a pageant they conducted annually on the anniversary of Nicholas’ death, December 6.
d. The Nicholas cult spread north until it was adopted by German and Celtic pagans. These groups worshipped a pantheon led by Woden –their chief god and the father of Thor, Balder, and Tiw. Woden had a long, white beard and rode a horse through the heavens one evening each Autumn. When Nicholas merged with Woden, he shed his Mediterranean appearance, grew a beard, mounted a flying horse, rescheduled his flight for December, and donned heavy winter clothing.
e. In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th.
f. In 1809, the novelist Washington Irving (most famous his The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle) wrote a satire of Dutch culture entitled Knickerbocker History. The satire refers several times to the white bearded, flying-horse riding Saint Nicholas using his Dutch name, Santa Claus.
g. Dr. Clement Moore, a professor at Union Seminary, read Knickerbocker History, and in 1822 he published a poem based on the character Santa Claus: “Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in the hope that Saint Nicholas soon would be there…” Moore innovated by portraying a Santa with eight reindeer who descended through chimneys.
h. The Bavarian illustrator Thomas Nast almost completed the modern picture of Santa Claus. From 1862 through 1886, based on Moore’s poem, Nast drew more than 2,200 cartoon images of Santa for Harper’s Weekly. Before Nast, Saint Nicholas had been pictured as everything from a stern looking bishop to a gnome-like figure in a frock. Nast also gave Santa a home at the North Pole, his workshop filled with elves, and his list of the good and bad children of the world. All Santa was missing was his red outfit.
i. In 1931, the Coca Cola Corporation contracted the Swedish commercial artist Haddon Sundblom to create a coke-drinking Santa. Sundblom modeled his Santa on his friend Lou Prentice, chosen for his cheerful, chubby face. The corporation insisted that Santa’s fur-trimmed suit be bright, Coca Cola red. And Santa was born – a blend of Christian crusader, pagan god, and commercial idol.
IV. The Christmas Challenge
· Christmas has always been a holiday celebrated carelessly. For millennia, pagans, Christians, and even Jews have been swept away in the season’s festivities, and very few people ever pause to consider the celebration’s intrinsic meaning, history, or origins.
· Christmas celebrates the birth of the Christian god who came to rescue mankind from the “curse of the Torah.” It is a 24-hour declaration that Judaism is no longer valid.
· Christmas is a lie. There is no Christian church with a tradition that Jesus was really born on December 25th.
· December 25 is a day on which Jews have been shamed, tortured, and murdered.
· Many of the most popular Christmas customs – including Christmas trees, mistletoe, Christmas presents, and Santa Claus – are modern incarnations of the most depraved pagan rituals ever practiced on earth.
Many who are excitedly preparing for their Christmas celebrations would prefer not knowing about the holiday’s real significance. If they do know the history, they often object that their celebration has nothing to do with the holiday’s monstrous history and meaning. “We are just having fun.”
Imagine that between 1933-45, the Nazi regime celebrated Adolf Hitler’s birthday – April 20 – as a holiday. Imagine that they named the day, “Hitlerday,” and observed the day with feasting, drunkenness, gift-giving, and various pagan practices. Imagine that on that day, Jews were historically subject to perverse tortures and abuse, and that this continued for centuries.
Now, imagine that your great-great-great-grandchildren were about to celebrate Hitlerday. April 20th arrived. They had long forgotten about Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen. They had never heard of gas chambers or death marches. They had purchased champagne and caviar, and were about to begin the party, when someone reminded them of the day’s real history and their ancestors’ agony.
Imagine that they initially objected, “We aren’t celebrating the Holocaust; we’re just having a little Hitlerday party.” If you could travel forward in time and meet them; if you could say a few words to them, what would you advise them to do on Hitlerday?
On December 25, 1941, Julius Streicher, one of the most vicious of Hitler’s assistants, celebrated Christmas by penning the following editorial in his rabidly Antisemitic newspaper, Der Stuermer:
If one really wants to put an end to the continued prospering of this curse from heaven that is the Jewish blood, there is only one way to do it: to eradicate this people, this Satan’s son, root and branch
The link:
Der you go.
No I don't. I do not respond to long copy/pastes from random websites. Try doing your own research in the primary sources instead of just copy/pasting second and third hand stuff?
 
Upvote 0

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
28,578
6,064
EST
✟993,185.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What does lying to children have to do with Christ?
I have been a Christian since Johnson was president and I don't think I have ever seen or heard of a worship service commemorating the birth of the savior which involved lying to children. Christians are not responsible for secular society co-opting and commercializing Christmas. Same goes for all the other secular trappings; wreaths, Christmas trees, yule logs, etc.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HandstoWorkHeartstoGod

Active Member
Feb 11, 2017
65
35
PA - Pennsylvania
✟17,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I/we have taken strong measures over the year to make Christmas as (non-commercial) as we could. We are still following this reasoning with our new daughter-in-law. Our traditions are and continue to be different than others, in that they are not based on the mall, over-the top decorations, etc. We do a small amount of decorating for Christmas, though.

It does help that for more than 25 years, I threw out all advertising in the trash. Sometimes we turn off TV commercial's sound and make fun of salesperson's eyebrows going up and down. They seem so desperate to sell! It's fun to watch.

We tend to like to make homemade, practical gifts. When children, limited their presents to three per child. We liked the story of St. Nicholas giving to the poor as our model. We never called him Santa when we saw him out and about, nor learned the traditional Santa story. We had good children's books that introduced St. Nicholas as compassionate and giving because he loved Jesus. We sought to follow that example at Christmas, involving the children with secret Christmas adventures of giving to the poor.
 
Upvote 0

HandstoWorkHeartstoGod

Active Member
Feb 11, 2017
65
35
PA - Pennsylvania
✟17,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I am beginning to show interest in celebrating more of God's appointed Holy days. However, these will not replace Christmas and Easter celebrations at our home. We have found ways to celebrate these that give much meaning to Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Brian Mc

Active Member
Jun 12, 2017
135
51
79
South East Queensland
✟10,846.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I am beginning to show interest in celebrating more of God's appointed Holy days. However, these will not replace Christmas and Easter celebrations at our home. We have found ways to celebrate these that give much meaning to Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Dawnhammer

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2017
545
436
48
Denmark
✟23,474.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The origin of our celebrations is not the point at all. Christmas, or any other celebration, is what we make of it.

This is quite true, but so encompassing that it doesn’t really say anything.

You could make the same point about The Bible or any religion or philosophy.

Sooner or later you really have to put some points somewhere.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Brian Mc

Active Member
Jun 12, 2017
135
51
79
South East Queensland
✟10,846.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Dear "Christians"/believers ... Christian really means that you are to have Christ - in you ...spiritually ... as Pauls said in Gal 2:20 ... (He had been baptised (took that vital step of faith in Antioch) then spent much time in solitude (years) seeking what Father & Lord Jesus wanted of him & he learnt that as it was with CHRIST (Anointed) Jesus it was to be for Him ... he had followed Jesus' example at the River Jordan & his "old (Paul) man" had been washed away (as with Jesus "as he came up out of the water". Jesus left His "old self" (the carpenter) behind ... He was a new creation (now Christ (Anointed) Jesus) AND He commands all who want to believe ... "You must be born again" ..
John 3:3 Jesus answered him, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, that unless a person is born again (anew, from above), he cannot EVER see (know, be acquainted with, and experience) the kingdom of God.

I believe Father's will for every believer is .....
1 John 4:17 In this [union (grafted into the Vine) John 15 ... receiving all that is needed from Lord Jesus) and communion with Him] love is brought to completion {and} attains perfection with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment [with assurance and boldness to face Him], because as He is, so are we in this world.

So, get under your shower, in your bath, a pond, a lake & wash the "old you" away as you ask Father to anoint you with the Holy Spirit ... as Jesus was ..... then you will be equipped (as Christ Jesus was) to stand righteous before Father with the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, the shoes (covering your understanding) of the Gospel, the shield of faith, holding the sword (that the Spirit) wields & on your head the helmet of salvation (Father's armour ... you look & are clad as Father's representative .. SEE Eph 6:10-17
2 Cor 5:20 So we are Christ's ambassadors, God making His appeal as it were through us. We [as Christ's personal representatives] beg you for His sake to lay hold of the divine favour [now offered you] {and} be reconciled to God.
NOTE: As with Christ Jesus ... it was NOT His battle, nor did He perform miracles .... it was the Holy Spirit that did it all THROUGH Christ Jesus ... WHO TOTALLY TRUSTED FATHER TO DO HIS WILL through Him ... He was a vessel, an "earth-suit" for Father to use so that His (Father's) will would be done.
Christ Jesus spent a lot of quiet time "talking/listening" to Father ... the He went out KNOWING that the Holy Spirit would lead, direct & empower Him ... SO FATHER'S WILL WOULD BE DONE.

So when you are fully clad & equipped obey the next command ....
Eph 6:18 Pray at all times (on every occasion, in every season) in the Spirit, with all [manner of] prayer and entreaty. To that end keep alert and watch with strong purpose {and} perseverance, interceding in behalf of all the saints (God's consecrated people)..... Father wants all that He draws to Lord Jesus (John 6:44) to be "fully equipped & stand" (so the intercession is for that ... "in the Spirit, likely your intercession will not be understood by you (likely you will pray in a spiritual voice) .... but you will be led by the Holy Spirit to intercede ... as was the Holy Spirit & Lord Jesus (See Rom 8:27, 34)

Rom 8:13 For if you live according to [the dictates of] the flesh, you will surely die. But if through the power of the [Holy] Spirit you are [habitually] putting to death (making extinct, deadening) the [evil] deeds prompted by the body, you shall [really and genuinely] live forever.
Rom 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Lord Jesus HAS overcome the world ... read John 16:38 ... so with Him & the Holy Spirit in you ......
Matt 8:17 And thus He fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah, He Himself took [in order to carry away] our weaknesses {and} infirmities and bore away our diseases. ..... let the world see you as this ... let them say, "I want what you have!" ..... & you as branches of the Vine bearing His fruit for Father's glory (John 1) ... Father will let them eat of the fruit ... (See Gal 5:22-24) that Lord Jesus has grown on you (a branch grafted into Him by Father (the Vinedresser)

He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today ... He walks with you, He talks with you along life's narrow way (when you have crucified the flesh in the baptism ... your step of faith ... as He did (as directed by Father).
 
Upvote 0

Brian Mc

Active Member
Jun 12, 2017
135
51
79
South East Queensland
✟10,846.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I happened to read up online that Christmas is a pagan holiday that the Catholic church adopted to convince pagans to join their church. That it actually originally worshiped the Sun God or something like that.

Is it true? And if so, are we not to celebrate Christmas?

This troubles me because I have always looked at Christmas a time of joy, of goodwill, of spending time with family. And even though I didn't grow up that religious, I do recall praying in front of the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve one year to God. And I felt really good doing so, I thought He was listening.

Plus...my family celebrates and meets on Christmas and I don't really get to see the one side of my family until Christmas.

So yeah, what do you think? What is the truth?
 
Upvote 0

Brian Mc

Active Member
Jun 12, 2017
135
51
79
South East Queensland
✟10,846.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
This is quite true, but so encompassing that it doesn’t really say anything.

You could make the same point about The Bible or any religion or philosophy.

Sooner or later you really have to put some points somewhere.
 
Upvote 0

SBC

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2017
2,477
584
US
✟38,276.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I happened to read up online that Christmas is a pagan holiday that the Catholic church adopted to convince pagans to join their church. That it actually originally worshiped the Sun God or something like that.

Is it true? And if so, are we not to celebrate Christmas?

This troubles me because I have always looked at Christmas a time of joy, of goodwill, of spending time with family. And even though I didn't grow up that religious, I do recall praying in front of the Christmas tree on Christmas Eve one year to God. And I felt really good doing so, I thought He was listening.

Plus...my family celebrates and meets on Christmas and I don't really get to see the one side of my family until Christmas.

So yeah, what do you think? What is the truth?

Deut 8: [18] .. thou shalt remember the LORD thy God:
Mic 6 [5]... know the righteousness of the LORD.

Remembering our Righteous Lord, our God with us, is doing the Will of God.

Those alike who choose to remember Him, doing so all together on ONE day in celebrations of His Birth, His Death, and His Rising up from the Dead - in no way do
I find those remembrances, which are remembrances of heartfelt love and joy, on any particular day, as having anything whatsoever to do with unbelievers.

God Bless,
SBC
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JackRT

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2015
15,722
16,445
80
small town Ontario, Canada
✟767,295.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Married
Christmas is not a pagan holiday. It replaces Saturnalia which is a pagan holiday that was celebrated at the same time of year.

A funny thing overheard on the way to the forum

What’s this empire coming to? Now they want us to stop greeting people with “Io Saturnalia!? “We have all these different cultures in Rome" they tell us, “We shouldn’t offend anyone" they tell us, “We’ve got to be inclusive".

We’ve got the barbarians from the north with their tree decorations and their fire rituals. And the weirdos from Gaul, cutting mistletoe with a golden sickle. And the Mithraists, the Zoroastrians, the Isis cults, and, of course, those characters who hang out in the catacombs. “Hail, Winter!" we’re supposed to say. I ask you, what next: we lose the feast? We stop the Solstice parties? No more honoring Ops, goddess of abundance?

I was buying some greenery down by the Forum the other day, and there’s old Macrobius with some Visigoth chick, and she goes, “Gut Jule." And I go, “Hey! In this country, we say, 'Io, Saturnalia' Maybe you should go back to where you came from? “Then Macrobius goes, “She can’t, she’s a slave." Whatever. At this time of year, the Visigoths sacrifice a pig and burn a special log that they dance around, instead of acting like normal people and going to the temple of Saturn.

I swear, I was at this party over at Septima Commodia’s house the other day. She always has a Saturnalia party. Anyway, she decorated the place with prickly green leaves. “It’s holly" she said, “The latest fashion from Brittania. They all do it in Londinium." It gets worse.

She had this statue of some goddess from Ultima Thule or somewhere, name of Frigga, sitting right there on the dining room mensa. I mean, this is darned near blasphemous. I’d be scared about what the lares and penates would do if I put that thing in my house. But Septima Commodia just said, “Oh get over it! We’re cosmopolitan around here." Cosmopolitan. That’s what they call it. Well by Jupiter, I live in Latium. I’m a Roman. And this empire was founded on the principle that the gods, our gods, must be honored at the appropriate time and in the appropriate way. None of this foreign heretical nonsense or these strange customs from Germania or Hibernia or Palestine. I say, “Io, Saturnalia!" and if you don’t like it, you can leave.

Thanks to “Witch” from wondercafe.ca
 
Upvote 0