What should Alabama Evangelicals do tonight?

wing2000 said:

One can hope most Alabaman evangelicals have a better sense of morality (and theology) than their State Auditor:

“There is nothing to see here,” Alabama State Auditor Jim Ziegler told the Washington Examiner. “The allegations are that a man in his early 30s dated teenage girls. Even the Washington Post report says that he never had sexual intercourse with any of the girls and never attempted sexual intercourse.”

“Take the Bible — Zachariah and Elizabeth, for instance. Zachariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist,” Ziegler says, choosing his words carefully before invoking Christ. “Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus.”

“There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here,” Ziegler concluded. “Maybe just a little bit unusual.”

Analysis | ‘Take the Bible…’: And thus began the worst defense of Roy Moore

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Ugh. I feel like a need a shower after reading that quote by Ziegler. Not only does he have zero understanding of the Christian faith (the Theotokos and Joseph were only ever betrothed and never 'knew' each other sexually- something even the Reformers believed)- he's using his misunderstanding to promote the indefensible.

Basil the Great said:

Probably 80-85% of AL White Evangelicals vote Republican. However, if enough of them are troubled by the news today about Judge Roy Moore, then he could lose the Senate race next month. What would you do if you were an AL Republican voter tonight and you believed the allegations? Would you vote for Judge Moore or vote for the Democrat or stay home?

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If it were me, I'd seriously look at the stance of the Democratic candidate to see if I could vote for them, look into third party candidates for the same reason, and stay home if I decided I could not vote for any in good conscience. Moore would not get my vote.

wing2000 said:

By his own admission, he dated teenagers as a 32 year old man.

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I look forward to seeing your source for that outrageous claim.

A good man would never put himself in such a position....

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So far, nobody has shown any evidence that he did.

TLK Valentine said:

True, but it would seem the spirit of George Wallace is still alive and well in Alabama.

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Do you have evidence for your slander of the people of my home state?

Also, you do realize that George Wallace renounced his segregationism and spent the rest of his life working for racial reconciliation and that, in his last three terms, black Alabamians were his biggest demographic, right?

War_Eagle said:

I look forward to seeing your source for that outrageous claim.

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...if he was witness in a court room, his inconsistent and hedging answers would not hold much weight

HANNITY: Well let me let me give the details. Debbie Wesson Gibson says she was 17 when you spoke to her high school civics class and asked her out on several dates and it did not progress her words beyond kissing according to the Washington Post let's stay on her. Did that happen?

MOORE: I do not remember speaking to civics class. I don't remember that. I do not remember when we...I seem to know or remember knowing her parents...that they were friends. I can't recall the specific dates because that's been 40 years but I remember her as a good girl. But neither of them have ever stated any inappropriate behavior. She didn't say anything. They said about me...

HANNITY: But do you remember ever going on a date with her? She said that you asked around out on the first of several dates but nothing progressed beyond kissing.

MOORE: I don't remember specific dates. I do not and I don't remember if it was that time or later. But I do not remember that.

HANNITY: But you know hard but you never dated her ever? Is that what you're saying?

MOORE: No but I don't remember going out on dates. I knew her as a friend. If we did go on dates then we did. But I do not remember that.
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HANNITY: At that time in your life...Let me ask you this you do remember these girls would it be unusual for you as a 32 year old guy to have dated a woman as young as 17? That would be a 15 year difference or a girl 18. Do you remember dating girls that young at that time?

MOORE: Not generally, no. If did, you know, I'm not going to dispute anything but I don't remember anything like that.

HANNITY: But you don't specifically remember having any girlfriend that was in her late teens even at that time?

MOORE: I don't remember that and I don't remember ever dating any girl without the permission of her mother. And I think in her statement she said that her mother actually encouraged her to go out with me.

Analysis | Roy Moore’s shaky defense of the sexual misconduct allegations against him, annotated

War_Eagle said:

I look forward to seeing your source for that outrageous claim.



So far, nobody has shown any evidence that he did.



Do you have evidence for your slander of the people of my home state?

Also, you do realize that George Wallace renounced his segregationism and spent the rest of his life working for racial reconciliation and that, in his last three terms, black Alabamians were his biggest demographic, right?

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Ahem...

Roy Moore on whether he dated teenage girls: "Not generally, no"

Too quick for me Wing...

War_Eagle said:

Do you have evidence for your slander of the people of my home state?

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What slander? Wallace said it, did he not?

It's simple analogy -- Wallace:blacks::Moore:Muslims, LGBTs, non-Christians...

Also, you do realize that George Wallace renounced his segregationism and spent the rest of his life working for racial reconciliation and that, in his last three terms, black Alabamians were his biggest demographic, right?

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But of course -- which means that there's hope for Moore yet.

And what a happy day that'll be... but I'll believe it when I see it.

wing2000 said:

...if he was witness in a court room, his inconsistent and hedging answers would not hold much weight

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Actually, that's precisely the answer any attorney would advise you to give in a courtroom.

Your claim was that he admitted to dating teenaged girls when he was in his 30s. Do you have evidence for that claim?

TLK Valentine said:

What slander? Wallace said it, did he not?

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OK. So, now you're pretending you didn't say that the spirit of segregationism is alive and well in Alabama?

It's simple analogy -- Wallace:blacks::Moore:Muslims, LGBTs, non-Christians...

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The difference is that we actually have a record of your fellow Democrats segregating, discriminating, lyching, and so on.

You have provided no such evidence of Chief Justice Moore doing so.

But of course -- which means that there's hope for Moore yet.

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And hope for you, I hope.

Allandavid said:

Ahem...

Roy Moore on whether he dated teenage girls: "Not generally, no"

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So, denying dating teenaged girls now means he did date teenaged girls?

War_Eagle said:

So, denying dating teenaged girls now means he did date teenaged girls?

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You didn’t read it, did you...?

Allandavid said:

You didn’t read it, did you...?

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Yes. I read it. And nowhere in it did he said what you claim he said.

War_Eagle said:

Yes. I read it. And nowhere in it did he said what you claim he said.

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“I do recognize the names of two of these young women: Debbie Wesson and Gloria Thacker," Moore told Hannity, though he contested the details of their stories. Wesson, named Debbie Wesson Gibson in the Post story, said she was 17 when Moore met her in a high school civics class, and they went on several dates.

Allandavid said:

“I do recognize the names of two of these young women: Debbie Wesson and Gloria Thacker," Moore told Hannity, though he contested the details of their stories. Wesson, named Debbie Wesson Gibson in the Post story, said she was 17 when Moore met her in a high school civics class, and they went on several dates.

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Your claim was that Chief Justice Moore admitted to dating teenaged girls while in his thirties. And yet, the paragraph you cite and the portion you bolded does not contain such an admission.

The person you're quoting is Deborah "Debbie" Wesson, not Chief Justice Moore.

Now, do you have evidence that Chief Justice Moore admitted dating teenaged girls while in his 30s, as was your claim, or not?

War_Eagle said:

Your claim was that Chief Justice Moore admitted to dating teenaged girls while in his thirties. And yet, the paragraph you cite and the portion you bolded does not contain such an admission.

The person you're quoting is Deborah "Debbie" Wesson, not Chief Justice Moore.

Now, do you have evidence that Chief Justice Moore admitted dating teenaged girls while in his 30s, as was your claim, or not?

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Not generally, no....

Which I guess means that, in a few specific instances, I do....

Allandavid said:

Not generally, no....

Which I guess means that, in a few specific instances, I do....

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But that's what you inferred, not what he said. I've given you four opportunities now to provide some evidence that Chief Justice Moore "admitted" to dating teenaged girls when he was in his thirties.

The first time, you quoted part of a transcript of an interview in which the closest he came to admitting such a thing was admitting that he knew her family and remembers her as a child.

The second time, you quoted a statement in which he stated that he did not date teenaged girls in his thirties.

The third time, you quoted somebody else words about him, not his words.

And the fourth time, you told us what you inferred from his words.

So, as they say on Shark Tank, "I'm out".

War_Eagle said:

But that's what you inferred, not what he said. I've given you four opportunities now to provide some evidence that Chief Justice Moore "admitted" to dating teenaged girls when he was in his thirties.

The first time, you quoted part of a transcript of an interview in which the closest he came to admitting such a thing was admitting that he knew her family and remembers her as a child.

The second time, you quoted a statement in which he stated that he did not date teenaged girls in his thirties.

The third time, you quoted somebody else words about him, not his words.

And the fourth time, you told us what you inferred from his words.

So, as they say on Shark Tank, "I'm out".

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When you ask someone “do you do X?” and they answer “not generally, no...” , are they not indicating that they sometimes do X...? They may be saying that it’s not common, they may be saying that it’s rare, but they are conceding that it has happened...!

It’s a non-denial denial....

Vylo said:

I would say there is a lot more before this case that should have disqualified him for the senate in the minds of any sane voters.

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This is really what it's all about, isn't it. Nobody really cares about Justice Moore's love life.

wing2000 said:

Obviously I was referring to their ages when alleged events occurred. By his own admission, he dated teenagers as a 32 year old man.

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You realize that's not illegal, right?

War_Eagle said:

OK. So, now you're pretending you didn't say that the spirit of segregationism is alive and well in Alabama?

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Oh, that? Sure, it's my explanation for Moore's popularity.

He's got a 50/50 shot of winning even if the allegations are true, IMO.

he difference is that we actually have a record of your fellow Democrats segregating, discriminating, lyching, and so on.

You have provided no such evidence of Chief Justice Moore doing so.

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You say you're familiar with the man -- ever actually listen to him speak?