razzelflabben
Contributor
what I was referring to was me asking for clarification, being given another passage, me asking how that was being interpreted and being insulted on many different levels for my inability to know how it was being interpreted from posting additional verses that pretty much seemed disconnected.
Now to the issue on not being able to repent...I pointed out to you all Pharaoh which was an example given about how for a season he was not allowed to soften his heart but later was. IOW's what I asked for was an example of someone who was refused salvation for eternity because he/she was not God's "elect" and what that would mean.
But back to Esau I assume that is who you are referring to...again, the passage in context talks about how he was refused his "earthly" inheritance because of his sin. This is a very different matter from refusing him a heavenly (salvation) inheritance because of his sin. So I am still waiting for what I asked for in context of the discussion at hand. Obviously God corrects His children and sometimes that if very uncomfortable but that is not the same thing as denying them access to the throne of God.
that wasn't my post, so you must be confusing me with another poster. I believe His Love is unconditional because I can't find anything at all in scripture that shows a condition on His Love.
so you are arguing that your Love for your children is conditional because they grow up and mature thus your relationship changes...I'm sorry but I personally find that both sad and disturbing...no insult intended. If the people who Love gave and took away that Love based on our relationship maturing I would consider myself not Loved at all...which is a very sad thing indeed. Since scripture tells us that Love is both longsuffering and does not fail I would have to then conclude that either Love does NOT exist in any form or you are wrong.
As I previously pointed out, many people and it would seem you are one of them, confuse the blessings or favor so to speak of Love with the Love itself. IOW's rewards for doing right are NOT Love they are rewards that are based on that Love...the Love does not vanish just because I am corrected by my parents for doing something wrong. Love is NOT a feel good emotion that comes and goes based on my emotional response to what I am told by the one I am Loved by. The passages you all presented that as best I can tell you are using to claim that God's Love is condition talks about the favor God shows to some not the Love that He gives or takes. If God's Love is conditional, then scripture lies for it says...Romans 8:31-39...(NLT)
31 What shall we say about such wonderful things as these? If God is for us, who can ever be against us? 32 Since he did not spare even his own Son but gave him up for us all, won’t he also give us everything else?33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one—for God himself has given us right standing with himself. 34 Who then will condemn us? No one—for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God’s right hand, pleading for us.
35 Can anything ever separate us from Christ’s love? Does it mean he no longer loves us if we have trouble or calamity, or are persecuted, or hungry, or destitute, or in danger, or threatened with death? 36 (As the Scriptures say, “For your sake we are killed every day; we are being slaughtered like sheep.”) 37 No, despite all these things, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ, who loved us.
38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. 39 No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This scripture is pretty darn clear that God's Love is not wishy washy as you are trying to proclaim that it is. Now, let me explain the importance to you of understanding this according to what scripture says...iow's no matter what I say, scripture has to be clear and as I see it, it is painfully clear if we know what the discussion is about.
I grew up in a situation in which I was repeatedly told I was not even worthy of a parents love. When I came to God I would have walked away if His Love was not greater or more consistent than that. Christ's Love gave me value that no one in this world could give me because of unconditional Love. You see, there is nothing I can do to stop God from Loving me. There are things I can do to remove the favor of Love from my life but that is NOT the same thing as removing His Love. Nothing can separate me from that Love for that Love is unconditional and if I didn't know this from both His word and real life experience I would walk away from God for that would make Him a liar which He is not.
and how is that a condition for God's Love...it says nothing at all about God removing His Love from disobedient children. In fact scripture tells us that it is out of Love that He corrects His children and out of justice that some discover death...justice being part of Love...(Proverbs 3:12; Psalms 86:15; Deut. 7:9; Prov. 21:15; Isaiah 30:18-19; Psalms 33:5; Isaiah 51:4-5) See, if God's Love is conditional you have to show how He removes it and when and why He removes it. You have failed to do that as best I can tell which is why I asked for clarification and got none.
How is justice a lack of Love? Hell is a consequence of our sin without the "justification" of Christ's death applied to our sentence. It's like saying that because I ran in front of a speeding car I am no longer loved because I got hurt....how pray tell does that make sense? How does me choosing to run in front of a speeding car equal those who Love me removing that Love while I am suffering? When my son died I didn't stop loving him, that love continues to this day...in order for Love to be conditional you have to show how God stops Loving those that choose death over life...you have failed to do that. You have shown hell as a consequence of our sin but not that God stops Loving those that are dead (second death) ....If you think you can prove in scripture that God removes His Love from those that run to their deaths (hell) please do so so that we can put this discussion to an end. As in I will believe scripture so show it so I can change my mind about what I have found in scripture.
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