The Bible and Older Dictionaries say that 'wine" is also grape juice.

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There's at least two Hebrew words that are often translated into the English word "wine." One of them means the kind that gets you drunk [יין], and the other means the non-alcoholic kind [תירוש]. I'll show you the first verses in which each appears. First the alcoholic kind:

Genesis 9:
20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

21 And he drank of the wine [יין], and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.​

And then the non-alcoholic:

Genesis 27:
28 Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine [תירוש]:​

Now here's the thing, the alcoholic wine [יין], is not always a bad thing. Here's an example, and I'll put plenty of context for you:

Isaiah 55:
1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine [יין] and milk without money and without price.

2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.​

Also, check this out! Here's a verse where seemingly both are bad!

Hosea 4:
11 Whoredom and wine [יין] and new wine [תירוש] take away the heart.​

So please, stop this non-sense about drinking wine being a sin. That's something a pharisee would do, adding leaven to the Law of Yahweh!

Matthew 16:
11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.​

Seek Yahweh, and praise Yahushua Christ, amen!

I am an Abstentionist and not a Prohibitionist. While I believe that it is lawful for a Christian to drink certain alcoholic beverages soberly and so as not to make their brother to stumble, I encourage that the best option is always to abstain out of their love for God, themselves, and others because alcohol is destructive and dangerous.

In fact, a recent UK scientific study shows that even moderate use of alcohol causes the brain to shrink. So it is not this harmless thing that people are making it out to be.

Sure it may be lawful to take a bath every day in crocodile infested waters, but it would not be profitable.
 
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Another Lazarus

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It really doesn't make any difference how many kinds of fluids can be described by the word.

God has created every fruit with goodness
But even too much of every good food is poison to our body. In this case too much alcohol is absolutely bad.

Its good to drink a little sometimes, just a little
and stay sober. it helps digestion and circulation.
But its better not to drink alcohol at all.
 
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Jason getting drunk is wrong. We all get that. I think the Jews of Jesus's time knew drunkenness was sin and most avoided it.

No. Not everyone gets that drunkenness is wrong. One person said in another thread that getting drunk one time does not translate into drunkenness. Another told me that drunkenness is cold stone drunkenness (where you do not remember anything) and it is not intoxication. I have also asked the question repeatedly, Did Jesus contribute to the wedding guests in being drunk seeing John 2:10 says they were "...Well drunk..." of the wine at the wedding? Some folks did not answer me back with that question.

So okay. What is your view of what happened?
Do you believe the wedding guests were at least tipsy or well drunk at the party?
If Jesus made even more intoxicating wine, how did He not help to contribute to them not being drunk?
 
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Neal of Zebulun

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I am an Abstentionist and not a Prohibitionist. While I believe that it is lawful for a Christian to drink certain alcoholic beverages soberly and so as not to make their brother to stumble, I encourage that the best option is always to abstain out of their love for God, themselves, and others because alcohol is destructive and dangerous.

In fact, a recent UK scientific study shows that even moderate use of alcohol causes the brain to shrink. So it is not this harmless thing that people are making it out to be.

Sure it may be lawful to take a bath every day in crocodile infested waters, but it would not be profitable.

You should put a disclaimer in your first post that you are explicitly stating it's not a sin, but that it can lead to sinful behavior if left unchecked.

And I encourage you to start looking up the Hebrew words. There are more than enough examples in Scripture alone to show why drinking wine is not always a good thing.

The very first quote you give, Genesis 49:11 translates "wine" from [יין], the kind that gets you drunk. Wine is not the only thing that gets you drunk, for Scripture should be treated soberly as well, that is, without so much bias.
 
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You should put a disclaimer in your first post that you are explicitly stating it's not a sin, but that it can lead to sinful behavior if left unchecked.

And I encourage you to start looking up the Hebrew words. There are more than enough examples in Scripture alone to show why drinking wine is not always a good thing.

The very first quote you give, Genesis 49:11 translates "wine" from [יין], the kind that gets you drunk. Wine is not the only thing that gets you drunk, for Scripture should be treated soberly as well, that is, without so much bias.

I just added a disclaimer (as per your suggestion), my friend.

As for Genesis 49:11.
I believe the blood of the grape is fresh fruit juice and not intoxicating wine because the blood inside of a grape is natural fruit juice and not intoxicating wine.
 
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Neal of Zebulun

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God has created every fruit with goodness
But even too much of every good food is poison to our body. In this case too much alcohol is absolutely bad.

Its good to drink a little sometimes, just a little
and stay sober. it helps digestion and circulation.
But its better not to drink alcohol at all.

You remind me of Paul concerning marriage.
1 Corinthians 7
 
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redleghunter

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So okay. What is your view of what happened?
Do you believe the wedding guests were at least tipsy or well drunk at the party?
If Jesus made even more intoxicating wine, how did He not help to contribute to them not being drunk

I don't think the text of John 2 tells us the alcohol content of the wine Jesus miraculously made.

Jesus attended the wedding feast as a guest.

Jesus was sinless and would not lead anyone into sin.

We can be assured of such.

I don't think the alcohol content was strong in Jesus time. Probably enough alcohol to properly kill bacteria. Which means someone would need a vat of wine to get drunk.

That's my view.
 
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I don't think the text of John 2 tells us the alcohol content of the wine Jesus miraculously made.

Jesus attended the wedding feast as a guest.

Jesus was sinless and would not lead anyone into sin.

We can be assured of such.

I don't think the alcohol content was strong in Jesus time. Probably enough alcohol to properly kill bacteria. Which means someone would need a vat of wine to get drunk.

That's my view.

Yes, I believe the wine the Israelites purchased and stored was intoxicating wine, but when they drank it for recreational purposes, they diluted it with water so as not to get drunk off of it so easily. I believe Jesus made fresh grape juice because "yeast" is a symbol of sin according to Bible language. Yet, yeast is made in wine making. Jesus's blood is representative of the wine. So if this is the case, then it would have been impossible for Jesus to make wine that was fermented by yeast because yeast is representative of sin in Scripture.
 
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Neal of Zebulun

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I just added a disclaimer (as per your suggestion), my friend.

As for Genesis 49:11.
I believe the blood of the grape is fresh fruit juice and not intoxicating wine because the blood inside of a grape is natural fruit juice and not intoxicating wine.

Thank you! I believe that will nip in the bud a lot of resistance to what you're saying.

As regards to the blood of the grape phrase in Deuteronomy 32:14, which is the one that says "the pure blood of the grape," in the KJV, that word "pure" is actually translated from a word that literally means "something fermented (i.e. alcoholic wine)," with a verbal root meaning "to ferment, boil, or foam up." So at least in this verse, it is talking about fermented wine from the blood of the grape.

It's a different word from [יין] but it's still an alcoholic beverage. It's a poetical way of saying "wine," and is used only twice in the Bible, the other occurrence in Isaiah 27:2: "red wine."

Some good examples to go over where something really bad happens when they're drunk are Noah in Genesis 9:20-27, and Lot in Genesis 19:30-38. I'm sure there are a lot more too.

Some examples of why it's good to abstain from wine would of course be the Nazarite vow (Numbers 6:2-3), including the birth of Samson (Judges 13:1-5), and the fact that Yahweh didn't want His priests getting anywhere near Him when they had alcohol in their system (Leviticus 10:9)!

I want you to know that I responded to your thread because I was drinking a glass a wine, which is not an ordinary thing for me.

Good night, keep on fighting the good fight, and praise Yahweh!
 
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GingerBeer

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The Bible and Older Dictionaries say that 'wine" is also grape juice.
The bible was not written in English. English did not even exist when the bible was written. The bible does not say "wine is grape juice". That's absurd. Wine contains alcohol and always has.
 
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GirdYourLoins

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IMPORTANT NOTE:
Please take note that I am an
Abstentionist and not a Prohibitionist.

A Prohibitionist believes drinking of any kind for the NT saint is a sin. An Abstentionist believes that the bible does not absolutely prohibit the consumption of alcohol but for numerous reasons, Christians should abstain from using it. In this view, any amount of drinking that causes one to not be sober in any way directly contradicts those passages that tell us to be sober minded. Also, this view holds that drinking should be done in private and not publicly where your brother could see you and stumble. This view recommends that while it is lawful for you to drink, it is not always profitable so it is highly encouraged to abstain from it. Not out of some sense of legalism but out of love for God, yourself and your brother. Thus, it preaches the reality of the dangers of alcohol and how it can bite you like a serpent (despite it being lawful). Note: While I believe the NT saint has a liberty to drink soberly and responsibly, I do not think this applies to the OT saint. I believe OT saints were prohibited in drinking strong alcoholic beverages. I believe the OT saint could purchase and store strong intoxicating beverages, but when they consumed the wine, they diluted it with water whereby the alcohol content was low. As for Jesus: He made 100% freshly squeezed grape juice.​

Brief Introduction:

Some folks think the word "wine" is always in reference to an alcoholic beverage. I believe they think this way because of their culture they grew up in and it has nothing to do with what the Bible says and or older dictionaries say. After studying this topic in the Bible and historical documents (several times), I believe the Bible speaks of 3 different kinds of wines.

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content)
#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).

For the focus of this thread, I want to point out how wine is referred to as grape juice both in the Bible and in our older dictionaries.

Wine is Grape Juice in the Bible:


Wine is the blood of the grape:
Genesis 49:11 says,
"Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:"

Deuteronomy 32:14 says,
"Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."
(Contrast with bad wine):

Deuteronomy 32:33 that says,
"Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps."
Deuteronomy 32:37-38 that says,
37 "And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,
38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection."​

The vineyard is the place of red wine (i.e. red grapes or grape juice):
Isaiah 27:2 says,
"In that day sing ye unto her, A vineyard of red wine."
Note: There is red wine in the vineyard is natural grape juice because the juice naturally exists inside the clusters of the grape. There is no such thing as a natural vineyard full of intoxicating wine. Grapes within a vineyard need to be crushed and interact with the natural yeast in order for it to ferment.

Wine refers to the grape juice from the grapes of the field:
2 Chronicles 31:5 says,
"And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly."

Jeremiah 40:10 says,
"As for me, behold, I will dwell at Mizpah to serve the Chaldeans, which will come unto us: but ye, gather ye wine, and summer fruits, and oil, and put them in your vessels, and dwell in your cities that ye have taken."

Jeremiah 40:12 says,
"Even all the Jews returned out of all places whither they were driven, and came to the land of Judah, to Gedaliah, unto Mizpah, and gathered wine and summer fruits very much."

Scripture describes “wine” that is in the grape:
Isaiah 65:8 says,
"Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all."

Source used:
What Kind of Wine Did Jesus Drink?

Note:
As for oil in crops:
There is a thing called a Oil Palm:
the oil palm

Wine is Grape Juice in Older Dictionaries:

Wine:
n.
1.
The expressed juice of grapes, esp. when fermented; a beverage or liquor prepared from grapes by squeezing out their juice, and (usually) allowing it to ferment.

Source:
Wine | Definition of Wine by Webster's Online Dictionary
(Please click on the link)

1828 Webster’s Dictionary defines the word “must” as “new wine-wine pressed from the grape, but not fermented.” Note that the unfermented grape juice is here explicitly called “new wine.”

The 1759 Nathan Bailey’s New Universal English Dictionary of Words and of Arts and Sciences offers the following definition for “wine”: “Natural wine is such as it comes from the grape, without any mixture or sophistication. Adulterated wine is that wherein some drug is added to give it strength, fineness, flavor, briskness, or some other qualification.”

The eytomology of the word "wine":
"Old Irish fin, Gaelic fion. Essentially the same word as vine.

Source:
wine | Origin and meaning of wine by Online Etymology Dictionary

Sources Used:
MYTHS about WINE and ALCOHOL in the BIBLE (Part 1) - Bible Christian

You've missed one very important type of wine. That is weak fermented wine. It was different to wine diluted with water and it was necessary to ferment the wine as this sterilises it making it safe to store and transport than water which will become infected far easier and cause sickness if drunk. It was similar to weak beer/ale drank in Britain and other places as a means of making water safe. With both, the flavour will change drastically if it is off so it is easy to tell if it has become infected. When Jesus and the disciples were travelling it is highly likely they would have drank this type of wine as a normal safe means of hydrating.

I see this as like money in the Bible and misunderstood by some. Having money is not the root of all eveil, it is the love of money. Drinking is not prohibited, but being a drunkard is.

As with many things, the believer should not participate in something if they have a conviction in their spirit that they should not do it. If you have a conviction not to drink, dont drink. If you have a conviction not to smoke dont smoke. If you are a glutton, dont eat too much, etc.

I have found that God often gives people a conviction to avoid things in the area they have a particular weakness. For me if a film or tv program has even a very moderate sex scene I need to avoid it. However I dont judge other Christians who are comfortable watching that as it is not an area they have a weakness in.
 
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GirdYourLoins

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Just to add, based on a few comments just before this one, the common types of alcoholic wine in Israel would have been as shown below. I will leave grape juice out and leave that for others to decide if they want to include it.

1. Weak fermented wine used as a daily drink that was safe and sterile. Any infection would cause off flavours allowing people to drink something they knew was safe if it tasted as it should. It was a safe alternative to water which could be stored and transported for journeys. It would be brewed with grape juice and water and was relatively cheap.

2. Strong fermented wine, sometimes called fine wine as it was produced with pure grape juice. It was more expensive so the poor often could not afford it It would have been drunk at weddings and other celebrations and by richer people.

3. Watered down strong wine. This was different to 1 as water which was not necessarily safe was added to the stronger wine. It made it more affordable and allowed it to be drunk throughout the day without getting drunk.

At least thats what I've been taught.
 
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fat wee robin

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What about 151 or other hard alcoholic beverages?
What if a person does not know these are that bad and they think it is like wine, etc?
Therein lies the problem.

Yes, I believe in some cases, certain alcoholic beverages may not be sinful if they drank a glass or two with a meal and so as not to make their brother to stumble. But if they were to truly learn the truth about alcohol (like myself), they would discover that it is technically a poison and a drug that destroys their insides. A recent study by the UK has shown that alcohol drinking done in moderation actually decreases the size of the brain. Then there is addiction... which can then lead to drunkenness and or drunk driving and death to themselves and others. So the fruits of alcohol is not entirely innocent. It is one of the most deadliest drugs here in America because it is lawful to ingest and even encouraged by others for us to drink it.
So you Jason have a problem with alcohol ,and in spite of your protests you wish to make anyone who has not a problem feel guilty and sinful .
This is in itself 'sinful' .
My serious problem is sugar ,especially chocolate which I eat in too large quantities for my health . Should we ban chocolate and sugar , or make it it
a 'sin' ?
 
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SBC

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So okay. What is your view of what happened?

It is not about consumption as you are thinking.

It IS about consumption as in Jesus IS the VINE, and men are the BRANCHES, and from the BRANCHES that spring forth good fruit, so then is the VINE revealed.

A man must CHOOSE and SUBMIT to be a bearer of good fruit, by CHOOSING to be one of Jesus' BRANCHES. And such bearer, thus exalts and reveals the VINE, The Word of God. And such man IS submitting to change from natural to spiritual.

Matt 20
[22] But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Grape plants are not typically a common plant that Americans garden, who may not grasp the background, that would have been common knowledge, to the men in Jesus' day.
This is an interesting article about the background knowledge of the Grape Plant.
Coupled with knowledge of Scripture, you might grasp my comments.

http://winefolly.com/review/lifecycle-of-a-wine-grapevine/

God Bless,
SBC
 
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dqhall

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IMPORTANT NOTE:
Please take note that I am an
Abstentionist and not a Prohibitionist.

A Prohibitionist believes drinking of any kind for the NT saint is a sin. An Abstentionist believes that the bible does not absolutely prohibit the consumption of alcohol but for numerous reasons, Christians should abstain from using it. In this view, any amount of drinking that causes one to not be sober in any way directly contradicts those passages that tell us to be sober minded. Also, this view holds that drinking should be done in private and not publicly where your brother could see you and stumble. This view recommends that while it is lawful for you to drink, it is not always profitable so it is highly encouraged to abstain from it. Not out of some sense of legalism but out of love for God, yourself and your brother. Thus, it preaches the reality of the dangers of alcohol and how it can bite you like a serpent (despite it being lawful). Note: While I believe the NT saint has a liberty to drink soberly and responsibly, I do not think this applies to the OT saint. I believe OT saints were prohibited in drinking strong alcoholic beverages. I believe the OT saint could purchase and store strong intoxicating beverages, but when they consumed the wine, they diluted it with water whereby the alcohol content was low. As for Jesus: He made 100% freshly squeezed grape juice.​

Brief Introduction:

Some folks think the word "wine" is always in reference to an alcoholic beverage. I believe they think this way because of their culture they grew up in and it has nothing to do with what the Bible says and or older dictionaries say. After studying this topic in the Bible and historical documents (several times), I believe the Bible speaks of 3 different kinds of wines.

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content)
#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).

For the focus of this thread, I want to point out how wine is referred to as grape juice both in the Bible and in our older dictionaries.

Wine is Grape Juice in the Bible:


Wine is the blood of the grape:
Genesis 49:11 says,
"Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:"

Deuteronomy 32:14 says,
"Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."
(Contrast with bad wine):

Deuteronomy 32:33 that says,
"Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps."
Deuteronomy 32:37-38 that says,
37 "And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,
38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection."​

The vineyard is the place of red wine (i.e. red grapes or grape juice):
Isaiah 27:2 says,
"In that day sing ye unto her, A vineyard of red wine."
Note: There is red wine in the vineyard is natural grape juice because the juice naturally exists inside the clusters of the grape. There is no such thing as a natural vineyard full of intoxicating wine. Grapes within a vineyard need to be crushed and interact with the natural yeast in order for it to ferment.

Wine refers to the grape juice from the grapes of the field:
2 Chronicles 31:5 says,
"And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly."

Jeremiah 40:10 says,
"As for me, behold, I will dwell at Mizpah to serve the Chaldeans, which will come unto us: but ye, gather ye wine, and summer fruits, and oil, and put them in your vessels, and dwell in your cities that ye have taken."

Jeremiah 40:12 says,
"Even all the Jews returned out of all places whither they were driven, and came to the land of Judah, to Gedaliah, unto Mizpah, and gathered wine and summer fruits very much."

Scripture describes “wine” that is in the grape:
Isaiah 65:8 says,
"Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all."

Source used:
What Kind of Wine Did Jesus Drink?

Note:
As for oil in crops:
There is a thing called a Oil Palm:
the oil palm

Wine is Grape Juice in Older Dictionaries:

Wine:
n.
1.
The expressed juice of grapes, esp. when fermented; a beverage or liquor prepared from grapes by squeezing out their juice, and (usually) allowing it to ferment.

Source:
Wine | Definition of Wine by Webster's Online Dictionary
(Please click on the link)

1828 Webster’s Dictionary defines the word “must” as “new wine-wine pressed from the grape, but not fermented.” Note that the unfermented grape juice is here explicitly called “new wine.”

The 1759 Nathan Bailey’s New Universal English Dictionary of Words and of Arts and Sciences offers the following definition for “wine”: “Natural wine is such as it comes from the grape, without any mixture or sophistication. Adulterated wine is that wherein some drug is added to give it strength, fineness, flavor, briskness, or some other qualification.”

The eytomology of the word "wine":
"Old Irish fin, Gaelic fion. Essentially the same word as vine.

Source:
wine | Origin and meaning of wine by Online Etymology Dictionary

Sources Used:
MYTHS about WINE and ALCOHOL in the BIBLE (Part 1) - Bible Christian
In Roman era Israel they did not have the technology to bottle grape juice to prevent spoilage from bacteria. They had to ferment grape juice to preserve it. The alcohol kills bacteria that makes grape juice inedible. They made pottery vessels called amphoras to store wine. Wine contains calories and polyphenols. Wine in small quantities is harmless. Wine in small quantities may help the heart. Wine in large quantities is poison. People have different tolerances for alcohol. Alcoholics may have no alcohol and be better off than their heavy drinking. I have a habit of drinking no more than a 5 oz serving a day and a 3 ounce serving seemed fine. Too much alcohol can cause brain damage, delirium, and cancer.

The only other way they had to preserve the fruit of the vineyard for longer periods of time was to make raisins.
 
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So according to the OP John 2 should read as follows:

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. 3 And when they ran out of grape juice, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no grape juice.”

4 Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.”

5 His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.

6 Now there were set there six waterpots of stone, according to the manner of purification of the Jews, containing twenty or thirty gallons apiece. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. 8 And He said to them, “Draw some out now, and take it to the master of the feast.” And they took it. 9 When the master of the feast had tasted the water that was made grape juice, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the master of the feast called the bridegroom. 10 And he said to him, “Every man at the beginning sets out the good grape juice, and when the guests have well drunk, then the inferior grape juice. You have kept the good grape juice until now!”


Is it just me, or does that not make any sense?
 
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OzSpen

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IMPORTANT NOTE:
Please take note that I am an
Abstentionist and not a Prohibitionist.

A Prohibitionist believes drinking of any kind for the NT saint is a sin. An Abstentionist believes that the bible does not absolutely prohibit the consumption of alcohol but for numerous reasons, Christians should abstain from using it. In this view, any amount of drinking that causes one to not be sober in any way directly contradicts those passages that tell us to be sober minded. Also, this view holds that drinking should be done in private and not publicly where your brother could see you and stumble. This view recommends that while it is lawful for you to drink, it is not always profitable so it is highly encouraged to abstain from it. Not out of some sense of legalism but out of love for God, yourself and your brother. Thus, it preaches the reality of the dangers of alcohol and how it can bite you like a serpent (despite it being lawful). Note: While I believe the NT saint has a liberty to drink soberly and responsibly, I do not think this applies to the OT saint. I believe OT saints were prohibited in drinking strong alcoholic beverages. I believe the OT saint could purchase and store strong intoxicating beverages, but when they consumed the wine, they diluted it with water whereby the alcohol content was low. As for Jesus: He made 100% freshly squeezed grape juice.​

Brief Introduction:

Some folks think the word "wine" is always in reference to an alcoholic beverage. I believe they think this way because of their culture they grew up in and it has nothing to do with what the Bible says and or older dictionaries say. After studying this topic in the Bible and historical documents (several times), I believe the Bible speaks of 3 different kinds of wines.

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content)
#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).

For the focus of this thread, I want to point out how wine is referred to as grape juice both in the Bible and in our older dictionaries.

Wine is Grape Juice in the Bible:


Wine is the blood of the grape:
Genesis 49:11 says,
"Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:"

Deuteronomy 32:14 says,
"Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."
(Contrast with bad wine):

Deuteronomy 32:33 that says,
"Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps."
Deuteronomy 32:37-38 that says,
37 "And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,
38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection."​

The vineyard is the place of red wine (i.e. red grapes or grape juice):
Isaiah 27:2 says,
"In that day sing ye unto her, A vineyard of red wine."
Note: There is red wine in the vineyard is natural grape juice because the juice naturally exists inside the clusters of the grape. There is no such thing as a natural vineyard full of intoxicating wine. Grapes within a vineyard need to be crushed and interact with the natural yeast in order for it to ferment.

Wine refers to the grape juice from the grapes of the field:
2 Chronicles 31:5 says,
"And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly."

Jeremiah 40:10 says,
"As for me, behold, I will dwell at Mizpah to serve the Chaldeans, which will come unto us: but ye, gather ye wine, and summer fruits, and oil, and put them in your vessels, and dwell in your cities that ye have taken."

Jeremiah 40:12 says,
"Even all the Jews returned out of all places whither they were driven, and came to the land of Judah, to Gedaliah, unto Mizpah, and gathered wine and summer fruits very much."

Scripture describes “wine” that is in the grape:
Isaiah 65:8 says,
"Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all."

Source used:
What Kind of Wine Did Jesus Drink?

Note:
As for oil in crops:
There is a thing called a Oil Palm:
the oil palm

Wine is Grape Juice in Older Dictionaries:

Wine:
n.
1.
The expressed juice of grapes, esp. when fermented; a beverage or liquor prepared from grapes by squeezing out their juice, and (usually) allowing it to ferment.

Source:
Wine | Definition of Wine by Webster's Online Dictionary
(Please click on the link)

1828 Webster’s Dictionary defines the word “must” as “new wine-wine pressed from the grape, but not fermented.” Note that the unfermented grape juice is here explicitly called “new wine.”

The 1759 Nathan Bailey’s New Universal English Dictionary of Words and of Arts and Sciences offers the following definition for “wine”: “Natural wine is such as it comes from the grape, without any mixture or sophistication. Adulterated wine is that wherein some drug is added to give it strength, fineness, flavor, briskness, or some other qualification.”

The eytomology of the word "wine":
"Old Irish fin, Gaelic fion. Essentially the same word as vine.

Source:
wine | Origin and meaning of wine by Online Etymology Dictionary

Sources Used:
MYTHS about WINE and ALCOHOL in the BIBLE (Part 1) - Bible Christian

Jason,

Nice try but it runs aground on verses such as Eph 5:18 (NLT): 'Don't be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit' ....

Please show me how I can become drunk with grape juice.

Oz
 
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