Should a woman think marriage = kids? (as in won't marry unless kids are promised)

Should you marry someone based on if they want kids or not?

  • Yes, kids matter most.

    Votes: 9 47.4%
  • Unsure.

    Votes: 4 21.1%
  • No, kids shouldn't be a deal breaker.

    Votes: 6 31.6%

  • Total voters
    19
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AlexDTX

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No where does the bible say marriage is about having kids

Marriage is about God's will as is all of our Christian walk. You quote Genesis but there a multitude of verses that show how God feels about children. They are a blessing. Frankly, to not want children, in my opinion, is selfish, and reflects how much the world is influencing your thinking. The globalists who are trying to set up a global government are the ones who don't want people to have children. It is easier to control a smaller population. They are the ones encouraging perversions such as fornication outside marriage (and abortion as the answer to the unwanted children), inappropriate contentography (so people are seen as sex objects) and homosexual and lesbian relations which can not produce children (yet they also encourage adoption into perverse relations which will pervert another generation).

Gibbons, in his classic work, "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire," showed that empire crumbled from within through moral decay which destroyed the nuclear family. The few generations born became a weak people with no strong moral vision nor sense of national pride. Excuses are constantly being made by Christians who do not trust God in carrying them through in raising a family: "we would be bad parents", "it is hard to stay married, so many divorce", "kids are difficult to be around," "we don't have enough money", "it is wrong to bring a new generation into such an evil world", etc., etc.

There are no good people and world has always been evil. To not have children when you can have children thinks only of your self and not the will of God.
 
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Roseonathorn

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Women force men to have babies... that one was new...well I get the point. But really it get's two to become pregnant and abortion is not an eligible option for the majority of christian believers. The women then think what if I get pregnant, then I must uproot my life and divorce. If the woman is on constant hormones she risk getting overweight and moody and feel unhappy with herself. If a man does not want babies, well an unfortunate trend here in my country has become sterilization among 30 year old men with some child or without and who knows how long the relationship will last. People do mature and perhaps they want kids or another kid at age 40 and then they can not have them. Babies as I see will grow up into adults, they will not always be babies but they are a possible part of familylife.
 
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JAM2b

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I read a statistic once that said about 25% of women who have their tubes tied regret it within five years. That means 75% did not regret it. I think this could be because it is such a serious decision that most will not do it unless they are very sure it is the right thing.
 
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Celticroots

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I don’t want children if I marry. They are a huge responsibility that I couldn’t handle due to my physical disabilities, and I couldn’t handle it emotionally either. There are perfectly healthy people who have a hard time raising their kids.

These are not excuses. These are things I’ve come to know about myself after 28 years on this earth.
I don’t hate kids but recognize having them isn’t right for me. I don’t see people who don’t want kids as being selfish.

Why marry? Because two people love each other and want to spend their lives together. I am not married btw.
 
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CitizenD

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The real question is why this type of view is so prominent within christian websites
If I had to guess, it's because call-out posts such as your own will probably be deleted by a mod within the next 5 days.
 
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Monna

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You won't see someone single adopt.

Actually, a near single relative has done just that. Not once, but twice. Both kids had particularly unhappy circumstances which made the situation even tougher. This relative is one of the most amazing people I have ever known (even if I do have a bias). Was given a prize for work in university level "abstract algebra," studied at the same time as social psychology. Went on to learn Hebrew well enough in a summer to translate Genesis; taught English as a second language to Vietnamese boat people and ended up teaching computer science and other things to the most difficult kids in a Toronto high school. Also started and managed a University bookstore, looked after 5 retarded men for a couple of years, worked as an "in-service teacher trainer" in the Khalari desert for three years. A person for whom marriage would have been too stifling probably. In case you're wondering the adoptions took place after passing 40 years of age. Both kids are adults, one has a child.
 
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com7fy8

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its never commanded we have sex or have kids.
What about 1 Corinthians 7:1-7?

Again I'd say its just a cherry picked verse taken out of context. If you read the whole section, its about filling the earth at a time when there is practically no one on earth.
Well, we do have Malachi 2:15.

Nowadays, there might be a lot of people on this earth, but God wants "godly offspring". There might be quantity of children, now, but God wants quality.

So, we all need to be able to help to bring up our children to be godly, including helping by our example . . . whether we have our own children or not.
 
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Halbhh

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A good way to find a spouse is to pray for God to choose/find one for you, if you can pray with faith. For this to work, I think you must really believe. Christ said to believe when we pray (Mark chap 11).

This will mean you are not deciding everything about kids yourself.

I had not wanted kids when younger, and after my friends were married with children, I finally said one day to them in my late 30s that perhaps having a kid would be fine, that I would be good either way -- with or without. That if I had a child I would want a daughter (both of my friends' families were all boys), and just one.

I met my future wife, and she said that she would never have kids.

In fact that she couldn't. Two doctors had told her that due to damage she would never be able to have children.

That was ok with me.

At age 44 she became pregnant, to our great surprise, and we gained a beautiful baby girl, so wonderful, and we are so blessed to have her. She has been such a wonderful benefit to us, and is so much more than anything we would have dared to hope for.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Women force men to have babies...
I knew a girl that wanted a baby and her husband needed a cosigner to get a truck he wanted. So they made a deal and she co signed for him but he did not keep his part of the deal to allow her to have a baby. She ended up taking in foster babies after they separated.
 
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joshua 1 9

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A good way to find a spouse is to pray for God to choose/find one for you
If you want to go fishing you have to use the right bait. If you want a Godly spouse then you have to work on being a Godly person to attract the right mate.
 
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Halbhh

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If you want to go fishing you have to use the right bait. If you want a Godly spouse then you have to work on being a Godly person to attract the right mate.

Yes! Even so imperfectly, like me.

I was far from there.....but I did want more to follow Him, better. I wished to go that way.

I added some details in an edit above, so you could refresh the page and look to find out what happened to our very great surprise.
 
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joshua 1 9

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At age 44 she became pregnant, to our great surprise, and we gained a beautiful baby girl, so wonderful, and we are so blessed to have her. She has been such a wonderful benefit to us, and is so much more than anything we would have dared to hope for.
I had my second son at around 45. When he said he wanted a brother I said ok, and got a foreign exchange student for a brother for him.
 

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NothingIsImpossible

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Hmm. I should add these couples I am referencing are like ranging from 18-23. So being young can make a diffrence too. I find even those not fully for kids just yet tend to change their mind to wanting them as they get older.

This quote below is perfect for what I really should have worded things! Thats essentially how I feel about it. At least some see through my terribly written thoughts what I was treying to say. I wasn't denying people should have kids. Or that it shouldn't be talked about. Or that women are bad and what not. Heres the quote:
_________________________________________________________
I think people don't know what marriage is in the first place. That's how all these other desires (like intimacy, sex, kids, curing loneliness, etc.) becomes more prevalent and distracting than what marriage is truly about at its core. Thats how this world is able to capitalize marriage, use it for political and socioeconomic gains, and recently perverse it to suit their fantasies. Instead of looking with a humble heart into what God actually spells out about marriage, and understand it, we just quote scriptures that suit our vision and idea of what marriage should be. As Christians, we've been lazy on looking into the significance and nature of marriage, and that have left room to have marriage be self-interpreted and self-defined.

Its a covenant between the other person and God. Marriage is a testament of God and the body of Christ.There is a heavy responsibility physical and spiritually, so much examples in the bible that even among the chosen ones,it have cost them greatly.Marriage alone isn't something to take lightly. Much less having children. So to have pressure that you are require or must meet expectations of kids, are just appealing to flesh. The requirement is not biblical, we have to stop legalizing the requirement of having kids when married.

That's not to say that they shouldn't, as marriage grant them rights to be intimate and have kids. But all these acts are to bring glory to God. So is being single, it also have its own testament about God, and even that decision shouldn't be taken lightly. But a woman who would think that kids are deal-breakers, have no clue about the spiritual weight of marriage and children. That is not a heart after God.
___________________________________________________________________________


Now for some other responses.....
I think you may be confusing me with someone else in the thread, or you are reading a meaning into my words that I never intended. For instance, I never said (nor do I believe) that God intends sex to be for procreation alone.

As for the need for a married couple to have children, while the commandment is there (in v28), I believe that obedience (or the lack thereof) to that command is something that needs to be worked out privately between a husband, his wife, and God.

So, as far as I can tell, I didn't "twist" anything in my earlier statements, though I would certainly apologize if I have (if you believe I have, you'll need to point it out to me however).

And while the only Scripture I offered was the commandment and statements from Genesis 1:27-28, at least I've done that much. I will ask you one last time, if you have any clear, Biblical evidence, from either the OT or the NT that shows the commandment to be fruitful and multiply has been abolished by God, please point it out, chapter and verse. Conjecture will not do.

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - you mentioned "cherry-picking" above. Please demonstrate, using Scripture, how the simple meaning of "be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth" is changed by the context of Genesis 1 that surrounds it. Thanks!

Well the evidence that your scripture is out of context is the fact Genisis was back when things started. Back when the planet was pretty much empty of any human life outside of the middle east. So it makes sense God will tell people to fill the planet by multiplying. Hence that command was for then. Not present day where the earth is full and its been thousands of years later. Just like most of the commandments back then, we don't follow them today. Such as aren't commanded to eat kosher food and what not.

I really hope you are not serious about becoming a marriage counselor unless you get A LOT more training and grace to deal with people that don't agree exactly with you. I can't imagine having this problem and my future spouse and I coming to get counsel about it from you; just taking what you said on this thread.
But if your a counselor, of course some people are going to disagree with you. And being christians people will disagree depending on their biblical views. With that said I've been helping people for a few decades now. Never had anyone complain. As for this thread, as I stated in another reply, I would be saying what I am here per say. Can't give advice unless I know the person(s) situation.

And when the men concerned go off on rants which blame women for all the evils of the world, that certainly doesn't look like it might be positioned up the healthy end.
Well since I didn't blame any women for the evils of the world then I guess I'm good.

If a person enters a marriage where they said they "maybe" they want children but afterwards start trying to frame the issue around their own actual desire of "no children" before they got married, then it is they who lied and committed fraud to their own heart in order to get married
While I agree with pretty much all of your full post, I wanted to respond to this. This would be one of my points. Obviously to lie to a future spouse about wanting children is a terrible thing to do of course. However what are those who do not want kids supposed to do? Often I see they feel like they are guilted by the whole world for not wanting kids (even if for legit reasons). For them trying to find love is like trying to find a needle on the surface of Mars.

I know before I married and was looking for years, I felt like women think less of a man who doesn't want kids or "may not" want them just yet based on various things like health, time of life...etc. And everyone knows even when you do marry someone, people are constantly asking when your having kids. Which for couples that don't want them, is annoying. And of course you can't give them a reason, even if its a good one, because they either bring up God or start to point their nose up in the air as if you are less then them.

One other thing would be is it a lie to say maybe and then eventually say no? Isn't the point of maybe that it could be yes or no later on? Unless you mean they were always going to say no and said maybe only to marry and had no intention of ever considering maybe or yes. In that case, they are pretty horrible. Those are the kinds of lies that damage a marriage for a long time.

To not have children when you can have children thinks only of your self and not the will of God.
I'd say its the oppisite. Aside from the bible never saying that anywhere, to have a child without even thinking of the world you are raising them in, if you can take care of them....etc is very selfish. To have a child just because you want one means you are thinking of yourself first and not the childs future. I say again, if I lived on the streets and was homeless, should my wife and I have kids just because we want them? Or should we consider all options first since we know it would be selfish to have a child that may pass away or get taken away because we cannot take care of them right while homeless?

Now for couples who have thoughts about all that is required in a childs future, then its fine to have kids of course not selfish. Just as its selfish to not want kids because you assume its impossible to have one in your situation (given your situation is not a big deal).

I don’t want children if I marry. They are a huge responsibility that I couldn’t handle due to my physical disabilities, and I couldn’t handle it emotionally either. There are perfectly healthy people who have a hard time raising their kids.

These are not excuses. These are things I’ve come to know about myself after 28 years on this earth.
I don’t hate kids but recognize having them isn’t right for me. I don’t see people who don’t want kids as being selfish.

Why marry? Because two people love each other and want to spend their lives together. I am not married btw.
Indeed. Some people don't care what the other person has to say as to why they don't want kids. Is having kids more important than giving someone a chance who could make your super happy? Because in the end its a lie if we tell ourselves kids will make us happy. Our marriage will. Or money. Or food. Or a home. The only thing that can bring us total happiness is Christ. Life is unfair alot of times.
 
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Ματθαίος

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I sort of circle around back to the point of way to often people (either sex) will put a value on something that they place higher than the marriage. For some kids. For some sex. For some a nice job. For some a nice home...etc. In the case of kids the spouse may be like "I'm just sad we aren't having kids. I don't know what to do anymore. Life feels so pointless!". A guilt to the other spouse that makes them feel like their love is not enough. Or their home, their job...etc.

Well, you talk about marriage as a jail term. If you're in, you're in. It's not. People have freedom to choose or reject marrying someone or to end a relationship for whatever reason. I love my parents, but I left their loving home a quarter century ago, but have never stopped loving them. Loving someone and having to live with them are two different things.
 
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St_Worm2

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Well the evidence that your scripture is out of context is the fact Genesis was back when things started. Back when the planet was pretty much empty of any human life outside of the middle east. So it makes sense God will tell people to fill the planet by multiplying. Hence that command was for then. Not present day where the earth is full and its been thousands of years later. Just like most of the commandments back then, we don't follow them today. Such as aren't commanded to eat kosher food and what not.

Hi NII, it "makes sense" to YOU! That's "conjecture" on your part, not Biblical evidence (or even sound reasoning). It's simply what you WANT the word of God to say and mean. The problem is, what you want the Bible to say stands in opposition to what it actually says and means, and it stands opposed to the teaching of the church as well, ALL of it (RCC, EOC, Protestants, Baptists, etc.), and that for millennia now.

You've given us no evidence that anyone (even in the NT, that was written nearly 2,000 years after the words of Genesis 1:28 were originally penned by Moses) has abolished God's commandment in v28, and we can clearly see that the meaning of v28 remains the same, whether it's taken in or out of context.

You don't get to change/adjust the Bible just because you don't like what it says, and you certainly should not be teaching it to others .. e.g. Matthew 23:15; James 3:1; cf Revelation 22:18.

--David
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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Has the earth been filled yet? No.

Like a rat-infested attic, it hasn't! Are you kidding?! How many more people do you want to cram onto this ball of dirt?

You've given us no evidence that anyone...has abolished God's commandment in v28, and we can clearly see that the meaning of v28 remains the same, whether it's taken in or out of context.

It's not abolished. It's fulfilled. Seven billion people on the planet doesn't look like anyone is trying to abolish the be-fruitful-and-multiply command.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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Hi NII, it "makes sense" to YOU! That's "conjecture" on your part, not Biblical evidence (or even sound reasoning). It's simply what you WANT the word of God to say and mean. The problem is, what you want the Bible to say stands in opposition to what it actually says and means, and it stands opposed to the teaching of the church as well, ALL of it (RCC, EOC, Protestants, Baptists, etc.), and that for millennia now.

You've given us no evidence that anyone (even in the NT, that was written nearly 2,000 years after the words of Genesis 1:28 were originally penned by Moses) has abolished God's commandment in v28, and we can clearly see that the meaning of v28 remains the same, whether it's taken in or out of context.

You don't get to change/adjust the Bible just because you don't like what it says, and you certainly should not be teaching it to others .. e.g. Matthew 23:15; James 3:1; cf Revelation 22:18.
First, see the post above me. He (or she?) nailed it.

I'd say basically everything you just said applies to you also since your also doing the same thing I am. Claiming truth.You can simply argee to disagree with me and not take it so personal. If other christians disagree with you do you also put them down and essentially make yourself out to be "holier then thou"? If so then, again, what you said to me applies to you. With that said your on my ignore list now.
 
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All4Christ

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An important thing for people to do when considering marriage is to look at the values and goals each person has. It is a smart move to look for someone who has similar goals and desires, including the desire to have or not have children. This isn’t selfish. It is a part of determining compatibility with each other. If one person wants children and the other doesn’t, it is bound to cause conflict. The same thing applies to all goals and desires. Of course, a common goal to follow Christ is the most important thing for us to have in a marriage. Taking the time to evaluate the rest of it is an important practice...which is why any good premarital counselor will bring up the topic. It does not necessarily mean it is an idol. Like everything, it could become an idol, but most times, it is not.

FTR, I can’t vote on your poll. It is not something that applies to everyone equally. My vote is that it is ok for it to be a dealbreaker, but is not always a dealbreaker. It depends on the couple (and honestly, religious beliefs as well).
 
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JAM2b

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Another point to mention is that having children is a relatively temporary thing. It is true that they will always be your kids for the rest of your life. Loving parents will always love them, support them in ways they feel are appropriate, want them and their grandkids in their lives, and leave whatever inheritance they might have for them.

However, in the daily life of individuals, kids grow up. They leave home. They have their own lives to live and their own families to form. The couple who conceived and raised them are left alone to live out the rest of their lives together without their children in their homes. You're going to want that person to be someone you want to grow old with.

I think that if you want children, that should be a common goal in your marriage. If you don't want children that should be a common boundary in your marriage. However your love and cooperation with one another should not be based on whether you have children. We often don't realize how little control we have over the matter. Despite the best made plans and best precautions or proactivity, sometimes the opposite of what we want happens. If you get married, then you need to have the goal of living out your lives together in the best way possible, children or not.
 
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JAM2b

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For those who say that marriage and having children is a command we are to follow, you are overlooking New Testament Scriptures that support celibacy. It is true that according to Scripture there are not a huge number of people called to it or who can accept it. However, the fact that it is taught about and supported indicates that marriage with children is not for everyone. So, a blanket statement that it is wrong or selfish to not have children or to want children goes against the Word of God. Not every person is called to help in "filling the earth." That also supports the claim that the command to multiply does not apply to everyone and is probably fulfilled already.
 
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