What is foreknowledge?

Tayla

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QM certainly appears to be non-deterministic at face value.
Indeed. I think it is where intelligent design (if I dare use that phrase) injects its intelligence and its design, from within quantum mechanics randomness:
If there were an intelligent designer awaiting for a favorable situation to develop, he could monkey with the probability so that an electron appeared in just the right place to influence a chemical reaction, sending it down a path having profound consequences. Ditto for the timing and direction of a burst of radiation triggered by the weak force.​
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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I had a thought about the nature of foreknowledge and wanted to see what all y'all theologians and philosophers think.

I needed to fence the back yard for the dogs, so I saw the fence in my mind with the gate over here. But when digging a post hole, there was a large boulder in the way. So I saw in my mind the solution: put the gate over there instead. Now there is a fence exactly as I foresaw it. Foreknowledge is not seeing a physical reality from the future but, rather, a creative process; working from the present moment forward (knowledge looking forward).
Hi this is a big idea to break down and I consider that the word of God God himself declares that he alone can declare the future. Isaiah 44 “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
7 And who can proclaim as I do?
Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me,
Since I appointed the ancient people.
And the things that are coming and shall come,
Let them show these to them.
8 Do not fear, nor be afraid;
Have I not told you from that time, and declared it?
You are My witnesses.
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.’ ”
And your fence analogy is partly true in that God has stated some ideas that are his purposed intent and will indeed bring them to pass. But God certainly teaches not all things are happening according to his will as this verse shows 7 9 And when all the people heard Him, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.
 
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elliott95

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I had a thought about the nature of foreknowledge and wanted to see what all y'all theologians and philosophers think.

I needed to fence the back yard for the dogs, so I saw the fence in my mind with the gate over here. But when digging a post hole, there was a large boulder in the way. So I saw in my mind the solution: put the gate over there instead. Now there is a fence exactly as I foresaw it. Foreknowledge is not seeing a physical reality from the future but, rather, a creative process; working from the present moment forward (knowledge looking forward).
There could be that aspect of Biblical prophecy too, actively striving to become that 'prophet like Moses', becoming the Lamb that God will provide in the stead of Abraham's sacrifice of his only begotten son. We strive to do this in our own lives today too, becoming the crop in the likeness of the seed that falls to the ground and dies. We imitate Christ in our own lives, striving to follow the path of the Cross that he set out for us.
Catholics divide their years into the ordinary and the extraordinary. Ordinary is according to how we live the world in the day to day, striving for the best of possibilities, according to what our known abilities are.
But when it comes to foreknowledge, we do not just aim for targets that we can see. Day to day goals define our foreknowledge like this, as we march toward our goal one step at a time. We do not aim at just what we can imagine. We ultimately aim higher at what is beyond our reach, beyond what we can visualize.
That is what heaven means. It is ultimately what divine, extraordinary, foreknowledge means too. God does not limit himself to what humans comprehend as being possible.
 
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Marvin Knox

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Has it ever occurred to you that theology 101 is rooted in greek philosophy?
No - because it isn't.

The most rudimentary form of theology (101 as it were) is to base your theology only on what the Word of God says leaving aside the philosophy of the day - be that Greek, post Christian, or atheistic. That's quite the opposite of what you seem to be saying that my idea of theology 101 is.
HDid you know Augustine was taught in Greek philosophy before converting to Christianity whereby he brought his preconceptions with him?
Yes I do know Augustine's philosophical roots. I also know his Catholic roots as well. What on earth does Augustine's life history have to what I said?

Answer - absolutely nothing. I said nothing about Augustine, Calvin, or any other particular theologian's ideas.

Why are you bringing them into the conversation?:scratch:

Even if I had - what would his bringing some prior conceptions with him have to do with the correctness of his theology concerning the unchangeable nature of God?

Answer - absolutely nothing.
That Platonic forms of God infiltrated the conception of God in Christianity and haven't been removed?
No - because it hasn't. That is particularly true regarding the unchangeable nature of God.
Did you know the idea of immutability originates not in the bible but in Plato's writings?
The idea that God is that which has always been exactly as He is now - is indeed a philosophical idea dating to before the N.T.

But the statement in Hebrews which tells us that "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever" wasn't written by Plato or any other greek - so far as we know. However, if you believe that the scriptures are the Word of God, it was written by God (Who, Himself, predates not only Plato but Adam as well).
Also timelessness?
Timelessness is also a concept recognized in greek philosophy.

The same can be said for that concept as was said for immutability. God has told us that He is from everlasting to everlasting. God predates Plato and Adam as well in case you have forgotten as seems to be the case.
Did you know Calvin builds on Augustine?
Yes - Augustine quite rightly recognized the eternity and immutability of God as does every man who ever lived according to the Book of Romans.
Did you know there are alternative and more biblical systematic theologies besides the dominant but flawed Calvinism?
Yes.

I just outlined one of them for you.
Please bring reason, not "seminary says".
I just did.

The scriptures clearly tell us that God is eternal and immutable.

"“O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!" Luke 24:25
 
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Marvin Knox

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I have rejected Theology 101 because it's based on the philosophy of Aristotle and seems to think philosophy can define God.
No it is not based on any such thing.

It is based on simply believing what the scriptures tell us about the nature of God regardless of what any prior philosophical roots you may have.
Also, it ignores the knowledge obtained via modern science, psychology, archaeology, biology, and etc.
As well it should.
Also, it ignores a proper understanding of who wrote the Hebrew Bible and when.
No it does not.

By the way the scriptures which support eternality and immutability are greek as well as Hebrew.
Also, it yields such silly teachings and doctrines as young earth, global flood, premillennialism with rapture, God's judgment as a courtroom legal proceeding, total depravity, saved by faith only, sola scriptura, Calvinism, that the final goal of the redeemed is heaven
You pretty much reject the entirety of Christianity don't you?

But, be that as it may, those doctrines have nothing to do with the eternality and immutability of God which is what we have been discussing.
(it's the new heavens and new earth).
No kidding? At least you've got that right.

Did I or someone else say otherwise while discussing the foreknowledge of God?
The study of the development of doctrine seems to consist in judging the writings of the church fathers based on modern views.
Then don't study the development of doctrine. Just read and believe the Word of God.

Like I said, that's theology 101. Not sticking with it is obviously where you have gone wrong.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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What on earth does Augustine's life history have to what I said?

The capitalized statement regarding things having never occurred to God is rooted in greek thinking; i.e. God is timeless, God is immutable.

I just outlined one of them for you.

I didn't see a proposed systematic theology outlined in your post, where did you do that?

The scriptures clearly tell us that God is eternal and immutable.

Eternal, yes. Immutable, in what way? The problem with immutability in it's strongest form is that biblically God changes His mind when presented with new knowledge (by way of human free choices). Has it occurred to you that some things have occurred to God?
 
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Marvin Knox

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The capitalized statement regarding things having never occurred to God is rooted in greek thinking; i.e. God is timeless, God is immutable.
To the contrary.

God being timeless and immutable are biblical concepts. That the greeks arrived at the truth of what the scriptures tell us about God shouldn't surprise us.

As I alluded to before:

".....that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:19&20
I didn't see a proposed systematic theology outlined in your post, where did you do that?
My proposed method of systematic theology method is to simply believe what the scriptures clearly tell us and forget greek philosophy, or any other kind of philosophy.
Eternal, yes. Immutable, in what way?
In every way - as the scriptures clearly tell us.

"Jesus Christ (aka God) is the same yesterday, today and forever." Hebrews 13:8
The problem with immutability in it's strongest form is that biblically God changes His mind when presented with new knowledge (by way of human free choices).
The problem with your rather myopic view conceerning God's changing His mind is that you do not consider that that changing of mind is part of His plan and has been from the beginning.

God's interaction with men is something He has planned to do all along and He has told us so in many places. He has also told us exactly how He will interact in certain circumstances.

One part of God's immutability is His unchangeable nature whereby He will act as He has decreed that He will act in particular circumstances.
Has it occurred to you that some things have occurred to God?
No it has not because it is not true.

God knows, always has known, and always will know all things past, present, and future - both possible and actual.

His knowledge is without limits.

Psalm 147:5
"Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.

Isaiah 40:28
"Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired His understanding is inscrutable.

1 John 3:19&20
"This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything."

Job 37:16 "Do you know how the clouds hang poised, those wonders of him who is perfect in knowledge?"

Isaiah 46:9&10
"Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please."

If you don't believe what God says - so be it. But it certainly isn't so terribly hard to understand what He has said. It's pretty darn clear if you have spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear.

Again - this is basic systematic theology 101 (i.e. believe all that the scriptures tell you or be branded a fool by Jesus Christ Himself).

""O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!" Luke 24:25
 
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YouAreAwesome

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To the contrary.

God being timeless and immutable are biblical concepts. That the greeks arrived at the truth of what the scriptures tell us about God shouldn't surprise us.

As I alluded to before:

".....that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:19&20

My proposed method of systematic theology method is to simply believe what the scriptures clearly tell us and forget greek philosophy, or any other kind of philosophy.

In every way - as the scriptures clearly tell us.

"Jesus Christ (aka God) is the same yesterday, today and forever." Hebrews 13:8

The problem with your rather myopic view conceerning God's changing His mind is that you do not consider that that changing of mind is part of His plan and has been from the beginning.

God's interaction with men is something He has planned to do all along and He has told us so in many places. He has also told us exactly how He will interact in certain circumstances.

One part of God's immutability is His unchangeable nature whereby He will act as He has decreed that He will act in particular circumstances.

No it has not because it is not true.

God knows, always has known, and always will know all things past, present, and future - both possible and actual.

His knowledge is without limits.

Psalm 147:5
"Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.

Isaiah 40:28
"Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired His understanding is inscrutable.

1 John 3:19&20
"This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything."

Job 37:16 "Do you know how the clouds hang poised, those wonders of him who is perfect in knowledge?"

Isaiah 46:9&10
"Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please."

If you don't believe what God says - so be it. But it certainly isn't so terribly hard to understand what He has said. It's pretty darn clear if you have spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear.

Again - this is basic systematic theology 101 (i.e. believe all that the scriptures tell you or be branded a fool by Jesus Christ Himself).

""O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!" Luke 24:25
Sorry to burst the bubble, but everyone views the bible through their own preconceived notions about Him. If it was as simple as - the bible says - there wouldn't be seminary at all. As for immutability, all we have to do is find one change. Well does God now see the time through my eyes? It's 3:04pm. He knows that right? But right now the time is 3:05, so what He knows about right now through my eyes changes. Therefore God changes. Biblically the only verses you present are showing that Gods Attributes are unchanging, His love Etc.
 
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What is foreknowledge?

Knowledge of something Before it comes to pass.

Gods foreknowledge of all things is because there is No Knowledge that is new to Him.

Men have foreknowledge of things that will come to pass, but wait to see it come to pass.

God does not "wait to see". Nothing is new to Him.

Ecc 1
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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Well he became human at one point. That seems like a pretty major change

Humans are but dust out of the earth.
The Word of God came forth out from Gods mouth, and appeared in the likeness of men.

(And had been doing so since the beginning of mankind, but in the last days, was called the Son of God, God with us, Jesus, Spirit, Lord, Savior, Christ, Wisdom, Power, Seed of God, etc.)

God desires to make men reconciled unto Him, in His likeness.
Will that make you God?

God Bless,
SBC
 
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Everybodyknows

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Humans are but dust out of the earth.
The Word of God came forth out from Gods mouth, and appeared in the likeness of men.

(And had been doing so since the beginning of mankind, but in the last days, was called the Son of God, God with us, Jesus, Spirit, Lord, Savior, Christ, Wisdom, Power, Seed of God, etc.)
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. 'Became' signifies change, as in he wasn't flesh before and then he became flesh.

God desires to make men reconciled unto Him, in His likeness.
Will that make you God?
What does that have to do with it? The point is Jesus changed in some way. I'm offering an argument against strong immutability.
 
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SBC

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Sorry to burst the bubble, but everyone views the bible through their own preconceived notions about Him. If it was as simple as - the bible says - there wouldn't be seminary at all. As for immutability, all we have to do is find one change. Well does God now see the time through my eyes? It's 3:04pm. He knows that right? But right now the time is 3:05, so what He knows about right now through my eyes changes. Therefore God changes. Biblically the only verses you present are showing that Gods Attributes are unchanging, His love Etc.

Disagree.

God does not change. His creations change. God does not change.

Mal 3: [6] For I am the LORD, I change not;


God Bless,
SBC
 
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The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Rom 8:
[3]...God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,


God desires to make men reconciled unto Him, in His likeness.
Will that make you God?

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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So how would you explain the premonition in my dinner with Dallas? I was the Best Man in his wedding and, after the honeymoon, he invited me over for dinner. After dinner, he, his wife, and I went downstairs to play table tennis. After a few games, he casually mentioned that he was going deer hunting in northern Manitoba the next day. I suddenly seemed to see his skeleton and strangely just knew he'd be killed if he went on this trip. I shared my premonition with him and urged him to reconsider.

An annoyed Dallas accused me of "being one of those anti-hunting people." I replied that, though I have never gone hunting, I don't disapprove of the sport. He didn't think I was being honest about my true motive.

2 days later, I went to our church's Watchnight service on New Year's Eve. When I arrived, some teen-age girls approached me and asked, "Did you hear what happened to Dallas?" Dreading the answer, I replied, "No.wh;at?" They explained that after the hunt he drove back to civilization on his snowmobile. But he hit a bump and his improperly locked rifle discharged into his shoulder and he bled to death. His companions tried in vain to stop the bleeding with wrappings.

When the girls saw the look of despair and horror on my face, they giggled and said to each other, "Wow, I'll bet we ruined his day!" Giggle, giggle. It felt like Hell was laughing at my loving concern for my friend. Dallas was the leader of our large church youth group, which these girls also attended. Since then I have had many more such death premonitions and they always came true.

I must assume that somehow my mind supernaturally saw into the future. But how and why?

Awe, what a sad story. Sorry for the loss of your friend. And the girls, awe, one day when they come into wisdom, and they'll feel shamed for their behavior.

I would call that a vision. And personally think it is not of our own doing, but rather God communicating with us. Seems some people are more (receptive, prone, aware, in-sinc, or whatever you want to call it) than others.

God Bless and comfort to you and yours,
SBC
 
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