GOD'S LAW AND THE SABBATH AND FOLLOWING MAN MADE TRADTIONS?

Kenny'sID said:

Of course we do, after I saw what he did to those goats, I'd darn well better fear him/God. Mathew 25:31 -46. Good idea to stay on his good side/do as he commanded.

That sounds pretty and all but the reality is, threats of Hell is God's idea, and that part is all about fear so yeah, since Christ is a duplicate of God think I'll fear..

It's a lot like, we love our Dads but if we act up...watch out..pretty simple concept.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

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A relationship based on fear and terror is not much of a relationship, and that's not the sort of relationship God desires to have with us.

When scripture talks about "fearing" God, it typically isn't meant in a negative way. It's meaning is more positive in the sense of respect or reverence, or an acknowledgment of God's awesomeness.

Christ is not a duplicate of God. He *is* God. And he really isn't out to get us. Do you *want* to be his sheep and not a goat? Then accept his free gift of grace if you haven't already, and put your full trust in him as Lord and Savior. Allow his Holy Spirit to work within you and the Holy Spirit will produce *his* good works and good fruit within you. Live in his presence every day.

He is the Living Word
Who can add or subtract from His Word, and He visited us
Did we recognize Him?
Or did we hold to our standards, whether He said He was First or Last did we understand? Did some act humble? Did some respond against Him?
By what spirit and heart am I speaking?

bekkilyn said:

A relationship based on fear and terror is not much of a relationship, and that's not the sort of relationship God desires to have with us.

When scripture talks about "fearing" God, it typically isn't meant in a negative way. It's meaning is more positive in the sense of respect or reverence, or an acknowledgment of God's awesomeness.

Christ is not a duplicate of God. He *is* God. And he really isn't out to get us. Do you *want* to be his sheep and not a goat? Then accept his free gift of grace if you haven't already, and put your full trust in him as Lord and Savior. Allow his Holy Spirit to work within you and the Holy Spirit will produce *his* good works and good fruit within you. Live in his presence every day.

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For the justified, Romans 8 speaks of a filial relationship with the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ; the believer cries: 'Abba, Father' (Romans 8).

LoveGodsWord said:

Hello bekkilyn,

For me I don't believe your post about the Sabbath being lost because of Egyptian slavery etc. I personally believe God's people knew of God's Laws before this time but the Sabbath was already being kept before the 10 commandments were given in Mt Sinai (See Exodus 16). Also, God gave it again to his people personally when he wrote them on stone and spoke them personally to His people after Egypt (Exodus 20). Then we have Israel all through that time up to Jesus and the Apostles keeping God's Sabbath.

God's Word tells us the Jesus and the Apostles kept God's Sabbath and it has been kept by God's people ever since. So when did the Sabbath get lost and how? Looks like God's Word disagrees with you. I think we should believe God's Word don't you?

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

Well seems like God's Word says that the Sabbath was being kept, don't you think?

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word and trust in them

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Where does James 2.8-12 mention the Sabbath? In 1 Cor. 15.20 the Resurrection is linked with 'the firstfruits of them that slept'; Hebrews 7.12 says the law was changed; Hebrews 7.19 says that what the believer now has is better than the law.

LoveGodsWord said:

James 2:8-12 is talking about the 10 commandments and if we break one we break them all.

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Romans 14.6: "He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks."

The believer is saved and perfected by grace, not works. (Ephesians 2.8-9)

LoveGodsWord said:

Hello bekkilyn,

For me I don't believe your post about the Sabbath being lost because of Egyptian slavery etc. I personally believe God's people knew of God's Laws before this time but the Sabbath was already being kept before the 10 commandments were given in Mt Sinai (See Exodus 16). Also, God gave it again to his people personally when he wrote them on stone and spoke them personally to His people after Egypt (Exodus 20). Then we have Israel all through that time up to Jesus and the Apostles keeping God's Sabbath.

God's Word tells us the Jesus and the Apostles kept God's Sabbath and it has been kept by God's people ever since. So when did the Sabbath get lost and how? Looks like God's Word disagrees with you. I think we should believe God's Word don't you?

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

Well seems like God's Word says that the Sabbath was being kept, don't you think?

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word and trust in them

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Simply because you believe that the Sabbath wasn't lost, or even that it even existed for humans at all before Sinai doesn't mean that there is clear, undisputed scriptural evidence for it. You are free to believe as you wish, of course, but it is simply your belief and/or the belief of how your tradition interprets things.

There is a difference between believing God's word, and believing a particular human tradition's interpretation of God's word.

Jesus detailed his commandments in his Sermon on the Mount. Not one word about the Sabbath was mentioned. If our salvation was based on keeping the Sabbath, one would think it would be given prime importance in Jesus's message to make sure that as many people as possible are saved, but yet it is never mentioned at all. Curious.

bekkilyn said:

A relationship based on fear and terror is not much of a relationship, and that's not the sort of relationship God desires to have with us.

When scripture talks about "fearing" God, it typically isn't meant in a negative way. It's meaning is more positive in the sense of respect or reverence, or an acknowledgment of God's awesomeness.

Christ is not a duplicate of God. He *is* God. And he really isn't out to get us. Do you *want* to be his sheep and not a goat? Then accept his free gift of grace if you haven't already, and put your full trust in him as Lord and Savior. Allow his Holy Spirit to work within you and the Holy Spirit will produce *his* good works and good fruit within you. Live in his presence every day.

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I am his sheep and I try to obey my shepherds commandments.

Question ... Are you saying we need do nothing but have faith and works are not necessary, when the bible clearly states if we love Christ we will keep his commandments? And when Christ clearly says right in the Sheep/Goat scripture what happens to those who don't do their works?

I won't debate that Christ is the son of God, you know, like the bible says he is. But I will say, I think your wrong on the fear thing. The first verse that came to mind, the one I quoted to you, was all about fear in the sense of, well...fear. You can't see the goats had reason the fear Christ, in the fear sense of fear?

bekkilyn said:

Jesus detailed his commandments in his Sermon on the Mount. Not one word about the Sabbath was mentioned. If our salvation was based on keeping the Sabbath, one would think it would be given prime importance in Jesus's message to make sure that as many people as possible are saved, but yet it is never mentioned at all. Curious.

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When the believer remembers the Lord in His Supper, it's the New Testament (emphasis on the word 'New') in His blood (Matthew 26; Mark 14; Luke 22; 1 Corinthians 11); the law was changed and what we now have is better than the law (Hebrews 7.12; Hebrews 7.19).

Kenny'sID said:

I am his sheep and I try to obey my shepherds commandments.

Question ... Are you saying we need do nothing but have faith and works are not necessary, when the bible clearly states if we love Christ we will keep his commandments? And when Christ clearly says right in the Sheep/Goat scripture what happens to those who don't do their works?

I won't debate that Christ is the son of God, you know, like the bible says he is. But I will say, I think your wrong on the fear thing. The first verse that came to mind, the one I quoted to you, was all about fear in the sense of, well...fear. You can't see the goats had reason the fear Christ, in the fear sense of fear?

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If you are not a goat, why would you ever need to be afraid?

As far as works go, if the Holy Spirit is within you from putting your trust in Jesus and accepting him as your Lord and Savior, then *he* will produce good works in you. Good works are a result of our faith, and not something we do in order to try to earn a result. Jesus made this promise to us and he is not a liar.

LoveGodsWord said:

Really? Or are they looking for an excuse to follow a man made tradition that breaks the commandment of God?

Please by all means where does it say in the scriptures that God's 4th commandment is now Abolished and we are now commanded to Keep Sunday as a Holy day?

How can the weekly Sabbath be a Shadow of anything if it was a part of the FINISHED WORK of creation and there was no sin in the world (Genesis 2:1-3) ?

How many different kinds of Sabbaths are referred to in the bible that are NOT weekly Sabbaths?

Here are the scriptures that answer the questions above if your interested linked....

God's people had already had the Sabbath and had been practicing it for over 4000 years by the time we get to the New Testament. You think that if God's Sabbath was now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day there would be some scripture in the NT regarding this but the fact is, there is no such scripture.

God's people had already had the 4th commandment and all the other commandments ....

So what did Jesus and the Apostles teach about God's Sabbath? Surely they would have told us that God's 4th commandment was Abolished and we are now commanded to Keep Sunday as a Holy day?

What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Mark 2:27)
3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14; Eze 20:20)
8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22)
9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts it is through love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

Ok goodnight friends late my time chat more latter......

Hope this helps you with your bible study.......

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Now q

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[QUOTE="omega2xx, post: 71951252, member: 403228"[/QUOTE]

Now quote a verse that specifies which day we are to attend church.

FreeAtLast said:

Yes, that is exactly what we see in this thread.

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

So, we see the Law-keepers passing judgement on born again Believers in Yeshua (violating Scripture!) for not keeping the Law of Moses when these things were only a shadow of what was fulfilled in Yeshua, the substance! The substance being that Yeshua gives us spiritual rest and communion with the G-d, not just physical as the Law of Moses did, and we are to rest in HIM.

Hebrews 4
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, G-d would not have spoken of another day later on.

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What you say is true but I have found over the years that the SDA will cling to their man-made tradition no matter what evidence is presented.

They will also insist we must keep the OT dietary laws in spite of the Fact that Jesus declared all things clean(Mk 7:19) and that food and drink are also only shadows.

bekkilyn said:

Simply because you believe that the Sabbath wasn't lost, or even that it even existed for humans at all before Sinai doesn't mean that there is clear, undisputed scriptural evidence for it. You are free to believe as you wish, of course, but it is simply your belief and/or the belief of how your tradition interprets things.

There is a difference between believing God's word, and believing a particular human tradition's interpretation of God's word.

Jesus detailed his commandments in his Sermon on the Mount. Not one word about the Sabbath was mentioned. If our salvation was based on keeping the Sabbath, one would think it would be given prime importance in Jesus's message to make sure that as many people as possible are saved, but yet it is never mentioned at all. Curious.

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Amen, amen, amen! Thank you for your clear post.

klutedavid said:

Hello bekkilyn.
Sunday worship is the mark of the beast during the end times.
It really does matter which day you go to church!

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That's SDA teaching, not Scripture. Not G-d's Word.
The New Covenant never describes the Sabbath as the one great issue that will divide the true believers from the false believers. If the Sabbath was indeed such a profound issue, such a "life-or-death" matter of eternal consequence, then why did Yeshua and the Apostles say nothing of its importance?

omega2xx said:

What you say is true but I have found over the years that the SDA will cling to their man-made tradition no matter what evidence is presented.

They will also insist we must keep the OT dietary laws in spite of the Fact that Jesus declared all things clean(Mk 7:19) and that food and drink are also only shadows.

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It is difficult to even graciously discuss the Scriptures when they simply repeat the same rhetoric and SDA teachings over and over, without Scriptural support.

bekkilyn said:

If you are not a goat, why would you ever need to be afraid?

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I'll try to explain. Fear keeps one on the straight and narrow...hence the threat of hell..or, we are by design made to fear, that is unless we follow a popular easy/unrealistic take on the Bible...see? Fear...something God chose to do, not me. If one is keeping the commandments and such as we have talked about here we can certainly be less fearful, but stop fearing...no, not me.

That's for those who have turned the scripture into something unreal, the ones that claim they are saved by basically saying they are saved, "I accepted it and I have faith" and technically that's all they need to do to get to heaven. Those need not do the works Christ clearly said we must do or else, or not do what we are clearly told not to, or else... no need to prove their faith, hence nothing for them to fear.

"Work out our own salvation with trembling and fear". Meaning, always fear, always be aware, always question ourselves, our motives. It ain't over till it's over, and until then, be fearful/careful always. And that's the type fear that means "fear" not something else as someone mentioned earlier, like "reverence" type fear and what have you. Not sure if it was you who mentioned that or not. To be more precise, in order to prove what I say, fear type fear will make us tremble.

Just a few Psalms on the subject...I had to stop copying because there were so many verses on it.

Psalm 31:19
Verse Concepts
How great is Your goodness, Which You have stored up for those who fear You, Which You have wrought for those who take refuge in You, Before the sons of men!

Psalm 67:4
Verse Concepts
Let the nations be glad and sing for joy; For You will judge the peoples with uprightness And guide the nations on the earth. Selah.

Psalm 112:1
Verse Concepts
Praise the LORD! How blessed is the man who fears the LORD, Who greatly delights in His commandments.

Psalm 115:13
Verse Concepts
He will bless those who fear the LORD, The small together with the great.

Psalm 128:1-4
How blessed is everyone who fears the LORD, Who walks in His ways. When you shall eat of the fruit of your hands, You will be happy and it will be well with you. Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine Within your house, Your children like olive plants Around your table. read more.

Proverbs 10:27
Verse Concepts
The fear of the LORD prolongs life, But the years of the wicked will be shortened.

Proverbs 19:23
Verse Concepts
The fear of the LORD leads to life, So that one may sleep satisfied, untouched by evil.

Proverbs 22:4
Verse Concepts
The reward of humility and the fear of the LORD Are riches, honor and life.

Proverbs 28:14
Verse Concepts
How blessed is the man who fears always, But he who hardens his heart will fall into calamity.