6 Biblical Reasons Why Jesus Made Unfermented Wine (Grape Juice).

Bible Highlighter · Nov 3, 2017

Alittlereality said:
Ok. Yes i know alchohol is bad mostly. I drink to numb the constant voices i hear, i go through hell that keeps me up at night, sometimes days..
I know a person whos an alchoholic more than me, ill drink for 3 hours have like 4 glasses then sleep. Im alone so no one to hurt but myself. Sobriety doesnt let me sleep. But like i said i dont drink all day.
To me the writers were trying to influence society of their time. Because they saw their cities and tribes regressing. I have a huge opinion and my thumb is tired.

You need to pray and seek out a good Somnologist (i.e. a sleep doctor or sleep specialist) and not seek out alcohol.

Alittlereality · Nov 3, 2017

Jason0047 said:
You need to pray and seek out a good Somnologist (i.e. a sleep doctor or sleep specialist) and not seek out alcohol.

i am prevented from praying the voices have my mind in lockdown. They play god to trick me.
I

Strong in Him · Nov 3, 2017

Jason0047 said:
People are confused on this topic because they do not know that the Bible speaks of 3 different kinds of wines.

For myself, I'm confused in this topic because I don't know what you are saying.
Is it that drinking alcoholic wine is a sin - and so Jesus must have turned the water at the wedding into grape juice, as he would not have encouraged anyone to sin?
Or are you saying just saying that wine is not beneficial, nutritious or a good lifestyle choice, and so Jesus turned water into wine because he was concerned about these things and the possibility of people becoming addicted?

Either wine, and drinking wine, is a sin to be avoided altogether, or it is permissible, but you would rather people didn't, for a variety of reasons.

Barney · Nov 3, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Reduce Its Consistency

One way is to boil fresh expressed wine down to about a third or fifth of its consistency. This thick, strong wine or syrup would keep without fermentation. When ready to drink, it would just be mixed with water. This was also done with cider and other fruit.

Lies, lies, lies. In biblical times they wouldn't have gone to the trouble of boiling down grape juice and reconstituting it. That's stupid. It's a lot of work. The result is nasty tasting. The shelf-life would still be short. And, it's unnecessary when alcohol preserves grape juice beautifully.

Patrick E. McGovern is a pro-drinking secular authority on ancient and modern wine. He said, “Concentrating grape juice down by heating is still used to make the popular shireh of modern Iran and was known to the ancient peoples of Mesopotamia as well as the Greeks and Romans. It enables fruit to be preserved, and, diluted with water, it produces a refreshing, nonalcoholic beverage.” (Ancient Wine: The Search For The Origins Of Viniculture by Patrick E. McGovern, Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey, 2003).

Tischendorf wrote of a visit to Coptic monasteries in Egypt in 1845, “Instead of wine they use a thick juice of the grape, which I at first mistook for oil.”

Aristotle said the wine of Arcadia was so thick it was necessary to scrape it from the wineskins and dissolve it in water (Patton, Bible Wines).

Lies, lies, stupid lies. Please provide quotes, in context, from the original ancient sources to support those stupid and false claims of a common practice of preserving grape juice through thickening. Does your "detector of stupid lies" (aka "discernment") not work?

Do you even read what you're quoting to see how blatantly dishonest your source uses its sources? "INSTEAD OF WINE they [the church visited by Tischendorf] used a thick [no water added] grape JUICE [no doubt for Communion, not for general drinking]" which is not boiling down grape juice, adding water to it and calling it wine, not that a 19th-century church practice would reveal anything about wine in the Bible. If you had bothered yourself to look at the original source, you would have found an explanation for its thickness, which will be nothing to do with preservation of juice.

Aristotle scraped "wine" from an Arcadian wine skin. If you look up the original source, you'd no doubt find that this "wine" had dried up from age and was, to say the least, unpalatable.

It was a common practice to squeeze a bunch of grapes by hand directly into a cup and drink that fresh, sweet (fermentation takes away the sweetness) unfermented wine. “Then Pharaoh’s cup was in my hand; and I took the grapes and pressed them into Pharaoh’s cup, and placed the cup in Pharaoh’s hand” (Genesis 40:11). Historian Josephus refers to this. Pharaoh apparently preferred his wine fresh and unfermented.

Lies, lies, lies. A dream, as in the Pharaoh's dream, carries with it implication that it reflects a literal practice, even more so when the Bible goes straight into explaining the dream in terms of symbolism.

I prefer an honest drunk to a lying "Jesus didn't drink wine" Christian.

Barney · Nov 3, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Not really.

Even moderate drinking might be bad for your brain.

Alcohol has never been thought good for the brain. In spite of that, moderate drinking has been linked to better health and longevity. It seems that it's very easy to protect the brain from alcohol damage. This mitigating factor would have applied to the people of Jerusalem in Bible times. Wild fish (Omega 3) protects the brain from alcohol damage. Their diet was high in Omega 3. The modern western diet is severely deficient in this nutrient.

Medscape: Medscape Access

Blame bad diet, not alcohol.

Tutorman · Nov 3, 2017

ViaCrucis said:
a person with a nut allergy really should avoid nuts

or threads by legalistic pharisees

Tutorman · Nov 3, 2017

Anguspure said:
I appreciate the context, nevertheless the principle stands: It is what comes out of a person that makes them unclean, not what goes in.

Exacty. Some like the OP think it is the other way around

Barney · Nov 3, 2017

Jason0047 said:
It's not deceptive. It proves that wine can be unfermented. If certain fruits can be made into unfermented wine, then so can grapes. I will give you a clue.

Lies, lies, lies. Welch was trying to sell grape juice to churches to use as wine. Welch's sales gimmick to proto-prohibitionists during the temperance movement doesn't make wine in the Bible grape juice.

To the Roman world of the New Testament times, the best wines were those whose alcoholic potency had been removed by boiling or filtration. Pliny, for example, says that “wines are most beneficial (utilissimum) when all their potency has been removed by the strainer.” Similarly, Plutarch points out that wine is “much more pleasant to drink” when it “neither inflames the brain nor infests the mind or passions” because its strength has been removed through frequent filtering.

Lies, lies, lies. You can't remove alcohol with a strainer. Let's see the original statement, in context.

Isaiah 65:8 says,
"As the new wine is found in the cluster,"

The juice inside the cluster of the grape is freshly squeezed grape juice and not an alcoholic beverage. The context says to destroy not the cluster of these grapes because there is a blessing within it. So it is referring to the grape clusters while they are still intact.

Lies, lies, lies. Isaiah 65:8 is a figure of speech, a metonymy used as an analogy.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 3, 2017

Strong in Him said:
For myself, I'm confused in this topic because I don't know what you are saying.
Is it that drinking alcoholic wine is a sin - and so Jesus must have turned the water at the wedding into grape juice, as he would not have encouraged anyone to sin?
Or are you saying just saying that wine is not beneficial, nutritious or a good lifestyle choice, and so Jesus turned water into wine because he was concerned about these things and the possibility of people becoming addicted?

Either wine, and drinking wine, is a sin to be avoided altogether, or it is permissible, but you would rather people didn't, for a variety of reasons.

In a nut shell,

#1. Drinking strong intoxicating beverages is not a sin for New Testament saints.
#2. Drinking strong intoxicating beverages is a sin for Old Testament saints.
#3. Drinking strong intoxicating beverages is something Jesus did not do. Whether He could have been allowed to do so is another matter entirely. But we know that Scripture says that His blood is representative of the wine within the Lord's supper. Yeast is sin (according to the Bible). Yeast is made in wine making. So it would have been impossible for the wine to be fermented or intoxicating because Jesus was sinless. His blood was sinless because it needed to be that way so as to wash away our sins.

Again, I believe it is lawful for a Christian to drink if they do not get drunk and they do not make their brother to stumble. That said, I do strongly encourage to abstain because alcohol is a drug that slowly can kill you. Sure, there are many people that turn out fine and have drank moderately. But how do we know they wouldn't have lived longer or more healthier if they did not drink? Studies show that even moderate drinking is not good for you. But, like I said, you have freedom in Christ to drink. For me, I know alcohol is a poison. So I cannot drink alcohol with a meal or for pleasure. I can only take it in a medical emergency like if I was in extreme pain or if I had a stomach ache and I was not anywhere near civilization.

Jesus is different because He died for our sins.
Jesus is holy and separate from sinners (See Hebrews 7:26).

Bible Highlighter · Nov 3, 2017

Alittlereality said:
i am prevented from praying the voices have my mind in lockdown. They play god to trick me.
I

Have you tried casting them out in Jesus's name?
Did you ask God the Father for help and pray about it for a really long time?
Try fasting in your prayer, as well.
It could be something sinful in your home in your life.
If so, remove any sin from your life or home.
Ask the Lord's forgiveness and ask for His help for protection.

Barney · Nov 3, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Yeast is sin (according to the Bible). Yeast is made in wine making.

Where are you posts against eating leavened bread?

And, no, the Bible doesn't say yeast is a sin.

I believe

Given all the flaming nonsense you've posted, your beliefs don't matter. You have no credibility, so appealing to your credibility, "I believe", is meaningless.

Peter Adeshina Babalola · Nov 4, 2017

Jason0047 said:
IMPORTANT NOTE:
Please take note that I an
Abstentionist and not a Prohibitionist.

A Prohibitionist believes drinking of any kind for the NT saint is a sin. An Abstentionist believes that the bible does not absolutely prohibit the consumption of alcohol but for numerous reasons, Christians should abstain from using it. In this view, any amount of drinking that causes one to not be sober in any way directly contradicts those passages that tell us to be sober minded. Also, this view holds that drinking should be done in private and not publicly where your brother could see you and stumble. This view recommends that while it is lawful for you to drink, it is not always profitable so it is highly encouraged to abstain from it. Not out of some sense of legalism but out of love for God, yourself and your brother. Thus, it preaches the reality of the dangers of alcohol and how it can bite you like a serpent (despite it being lawful). Note: While I believe the NT saint has a liberty to drink soberly and responsibly, I do not think this applies to the OT saint. I believe OT saints were prohibited in drinking strong alcoholic beverages. I believe the OT saint could purchase and store strong intoxicating beverages, but when they consumed the wine, they diluted it with water whereby the alcohol content was low. As for Jesus: He made 100% freshly squeezed grape juice.

In fact, speaking of how Jesus made 100% grape juice, here is the topic of the thread:

Six Biblical Reasons Why Jesus's Miracle Was Unfermented Wine (Fresh Grape Juice):

If Jesus made alcoholic wine He would have broken Scripture in a number of places and he would have encouraged future generations of alcoholics to have the green light that it is okay to drink (Whereby they would slip back into drinking themselves to death). Anyways, here are 6 reasons in the Bible that make it absolutely clear that Jesus could not have made intoxicating wine.

#1. Jesus's Pure Blood is likened to the Pure Wine that He made.
Jesus's blood washes away our sins. Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Jesus says He is the bread of life and that we are to eat of his flesh and blood. Jesus is life. However, alcohol is not a product of life but it is a picture or symbol of death because it is a byproduct of death and not life. This is why Christ made grape juice because it was a pure juice and it was worthy of reflecting his glory in Him being the perfect, sinless Son of God. "Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."(Deuteronomy 32:14).

#2. Woe unto him that gives his neighbor strong drink.
"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also," (Habakkuk 2:15). If Jesus gave strong drink to his fellow neighbors here, he would be under the woe of Habakkuk 2:15. This would not be a blessing for Jesus but it would be a curse if he were to disobey this part of Scripture.

#3. Jesus is a King (And wine is not for kings).
Jesus is a king and Jesus would not have ignored his own sage advice or wisdom within His Word that says "it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink" (Proverbs 31:4 KJV); And the very Scriptures themselves are a testimony of Jesus: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39 KJV). So if this verse is true, I want you explain how Proverbs 31:4 is a testimony of Jesus Christ.

#4. Warnings against Alcohol.
Wine is a mocker (Proverbs 20:1). Strong drink is raging (Proverbs 20:1). Whoever is deceived by it is not wise (Proverbs 20:1). Wine bites like a serpent and stings like an adder (Proverbs 23:32). Do not look upon wine when it is red in the cup and when it moves itself aright (Proverbs 23:31). You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink: that you might know that I am the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 29:6). Who has woe? who has sorrow? who has contentions? who has babbling? who has wounds without cause? who has redness of eyes? (Proverbs 23:29). They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. (Proverbs 23:30).

#5. If Jesus did get people drunk (It would be a sin) & They would no longer be Sober.
Jesus could not have made alcoholic wine because John chapter 2 says, that the people at the wedding were "well drunk" (John 2:10 KJV). This means that they had already had drank a good amount of wine already and would have been either tipsy or close to being tipsy (at the very least). Jesus creating more good wine (i.e. good wine supposedly meaning that it was stronger in alcoholic content) would have contributed to the intoxication of those at the wedding party. This means that if they were not sober before, Jesus creating even more stronger alcoholic wine would have definitely made them at least tipsy or with having a mind that was not sober. This is a direct violation of Scripture that commands Christians to be sober (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV). So were they sober at the wedding or not? Also, Paul even warns that drunkenness is the type of sin that will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God, too (Galatians 5:21).

#6. Christ set a good example by His miracle.
The public creation of alcoholic wine would also contradict Romans chapter 14 that tells us that you are not to do anything to make your brother to stumble. For verse 21 says, "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything whereby thy brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak" (Romans 14:21 KJV). For a public wedding of drinking and the writing down of that event is like a giant billboard sign declaring to Christians who have struggled with alcoholism and have put it away could then think that it is okay to drink again (when their conscience condemns it and or because they are horribly addicted to it). This would be the same thing as a Christian drinking in front of an alcoholic (knowing they are an alcoholic); For if a Christian were to do so, they could make this alcoholic stumble back into alcoholism again. Which would be evil. For Romans 14 says, "Let not then your good be evil spoken of" (Romans 14:16 KJV). Jesus knows there are alcoholics who would read John chapter 2. Such a stamp of approval on alcohol could easily send them back into alcoholism. This would be evil.

Conclusion:
Jesus did not create alcoholic wine as a part of His miracle in John 2; And nor did He even drink the Biblical wine that OT saints drank which was mixed with water and lower in alcoholic content. Jesus drank with his disciples of the fruit of the vine at the Last Supper. The fruit of the vine is what the Scriptures say He drank (Matthew 26:29). The fruit of the vine is grape juice! --- Not fermented intoxicating alcohol! That would be like calling an orange smoothie drink in being like the fruit of the orange!

Peter Adeshina Babalola · Nov 4, 2017

Great one here!

Anguspure · Nov 4, 2017

Jason0047 said:
So you believe a Christian has a liberty in Christ to eat cocain cakes?
Surely this does not apply here.
There is a thing called taking something beyond what somebody has said or meant.

All things are permissable but not all things are beneficial, yes we are free but we should not use our freedom as a licence.

Furthermore our concern should not be for ourselves but for our family in Christ. If I use my freedom to eat Cocaine cakes I am likely to cause a brother who has less faith in the liberty of the gospel to stumble because for him it is a sin.

So as much as I enjoy a drink, I am careful to avoid alchoholic drinks around those whose faith is weak.

And lastely eating Cocaine cakes is deemed to be unlawful, at least in NZ and so as people who are urged to submit to the Authorities in so far as it is possible for the sake of the Gospel then it will not do to break the law.

So yes I have liberty to eat cocaine cakes but, no I would not for the sake of my family and for the sake of the Gospel.

Francis Drake · Nov 4, 2017

Alittlereality said:
i am prevented from praying the voices have my mind in lockdown. They play god to trick me.
I

These voices are demons. They need to be cast out just as Jesus commanded.

faroukfarouk · Nov 4, 2017

Anguspure said:
It is what comes out of a person that makes them unclean, not what goes in.

This is Scriptural, yes.

Strong in Him · Nov 4, 2017

Jason0047 said:
In a nut shell,

#1. Drinking strong intoxicating beverages is not a sin for New Testament saints.
#2. Drinking strong intoxicating beverages is a sin for Old Testament saints.
#3. Drinking strong intoxicating beverages is something Jesus did not do.

Thank you for clarifying.
1. Ok, I understand.
2. None of us are OT saints, so that doesn't apply.
3. As you can see, I think the jury's still out on that.

Jason0047 said:
Whether He could have been allowed to do so is another matter entirely.

Of course he could have done, and almost certainly did. Hebrews says that he was like us in EVERY way, except that he did not sin. And you've just conceded that NT saints may drink alcohol.

Jason0047 said:
But we know that Scripture says that His blood is representative of the wine within the Lord's supper.

Yes, represents; not that it is.
Scripture says that we are forgiven, Matthew 26:28; purified, 1 John 1:7, redeemed, Ephesians 1:7 and have peace with God, Colossians 1:20 through Jesus' blood - surely you're not saying that shows we are forgiven, purified, etc through WINE?

Jason0047 said:
Yeast is sin (according to the Bible).

No it isn't.
Like I said, the Kingdom of God was compared to yeast.

Jason0047 said:
Yeast is made in wine making.

I don't know about wine making, but I don't think that it is.
Yeast may be added to, or used in, wine making. It is also used in making bread and may be in many products that we don't even know about.

Jason0047 said:
So it would have been impossible for the wine to be fermented or intoxicating because Jesus was sinless.

So drinking alcoholic wine, that contained yeast, would have meant that Jesus was taking sin into his body, and therefore would not have been sinless?
That doesn't follow at all.
1. For one thing, yeast is sometimes used in Scripture to illustrate sin; true. That doesn't mean that yeast = sin - otherwise, as I said, Jesus would not have compared the kingdom of God to yeast. So when you see the word "yeast" in Scripture, you cannot automatically think "sin" - any more than when you see the words "Jesus blood" you can automatically think "wine".
2. At certain festivals the Jews were told to make bread without yeast; this implies that most of the time, their bread was made WITH yeast. Similarly, they had to clear all yeast out of their houses; which means that they must have, ordinarily, had yeast IN their houses. Are you saying that if Jesus had ever eaten bread with yeast or gone into a house where yeast was used, that he would have sinned?
3. Eating and drinking could not have made Jesus a sinner - any more than associating with tax collectors or gentiles, touching lepers, dead people or the woman who was bleeding, (all of these were unclean), made him a sinner. Sin is deliberate disobedience, and rebellion, against God. Jesus obeyed his Father perfectly.

Jason0047 said:
His blood was sinless because it needed to be that way so as to wash away our sins.

His blood was BLOOD - human blood.
It was, and is, able to cleanse us from sin because Jesus led a perfect life, of perfect obedience; and willingly offered that life to God as a sacrifice, in place of our sinful lives.
It was Jesus' obedience, love and perfect life that made him able to be the perfect sacrifice, NOT that his blood contained some special properties that no one else's had.

Jason0047 said:
Again, I believe it is lawful for a Christian to drink if they do not get drunk and they do not make their brother to stumble.

Exactly.
So if it is permissible for a Christian to drink wine, wine itself cannot be a sin.

Jason0047 said:
That said, I do strongly encourage to abstain because alcohol is a drug that slowly can kill you. Sure, there are many people that turn out fine and have drank moderately. But how do we know they wouldn't have lived longer or more healthier if they did not drink? Studies show that even moderate drinking is not good for you. But, like I said, you have freedom in Christ to drink. .

Yes, you make some good points.
But you seem to be using Scripture, and Jesus' example, in your quest to see alcohol limited or banned. This doesn't work.
Like I said, if alcohol is sinful, it should be totally out of bounds for a Christian. I don't think you believe that because you allow that a Christian can drink, whereas I am certain that you would not encourage a Christian to sin.
If alcohol is NOT sinful, then Christians may drink it; and you have already said that.
You may believe it is unhealthy and unwise to drink - but that is not the same as saying that it is sinful to drink.

In a nutshell; the statement that if Jesus had had alcoholic wine in his blood he would not have been sinless and could not have died for our sins, is illogical and unscriptural. Jesus could have drunk alcoholic wine and still been perfect.

SBC · Nov 4, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Thus, it preaches the reality of the dangers of alcohol and how it can bite you like a serpent (despite it being lawful).

Phil 2:4
[5] Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

God Bless,
SBC

Lee Stuvmen · Nov 4, 2017

Jason0047 said:
IMPORTANT NOTE:
Please take note that I an
Abstentionist and not a Prohibitionist.

A Prohibitionist believes drinking of any kind for the NT saint is a sin. An Abstentionist believes that the bible does not absolutely prohibit the consumption of alcohol but for numerous reasons, Christians should abstain from using it. In this view, any amount of drinking that causes one to not be sober in any way directly contradicts those passages that tell us to be sober minded. Also, this view holds that drinking should be done in private and not publicly where your brother could see you and stumble. This view recommends that while it is lawful for you to drink, it is not always profitable so it is highly encouraged to abstain from it. Not out of some sense of legalism but out of love for God, yourself and your brother. Thus, it preaches the reality of the dangers of alcohol and how it can bite you like a serpent (despite it being lawful). Note: While I believe the NT saint has a liberty to drink soberly and responsibly, I do not think this applies to the OT saint. I believe OT saints were prohibited in drinking strong alcoholic beverages. I believe the OT saint could purchase and store strong intoxicating beverages, but when they consumed the wine, they diluted it with water whereby the alcohol content was low. As for Jesus: He made 100% freshly squeezed grape juice.

In fact, speaking of how Jesus made 100% grape juice, here is the topic of the thread:

Six Biblical Reasons Why Jesus's Miracle Was Unfermented Wine (Fresh Grape Juice):

If Jesus made alcoholic wine He would have broken Scripture in a number of places and he would have encouraged future generations of alcoholics to have the green light that it is okay to drink (Whereby they would slip back into drinking themselves to death). Anyways, here are 6 reasons in the Bible that make it absolutely clear that Jesus could not have made intoxicating wine.

#1. Jesus's Pure Blood is likened to the Pure Wine that He made.
Jesus's blood washes away our sins. Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Jesus says He is the bread of life and that we are to eat of his flesh and blood. Jesus is life. However, alcohol is not a product of life but it is a picture or symbol of death because it is a byproduct of death and not life. This is why Christ made grape juice because it was a pure juice and it was worthy of reflecting his glory in Him being the perfect, sinless Son of God. "Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape."(Deuteronomy 32:14).

#2. Woe unto him that gives his neighbor strong drink.
"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also," (Habakkuk 2:15). If Jesus gave strong drink to his fellow neighbors here, he would be under the woe of Habakkuk 2:15. This would not be a blessing for Jesus but it would be a curse if he were to disobey this part of Scripture.

#3. Jesus is a King (And wine is not for kings).
Jesus is a king and Jesus would not have ignored his own sage advice or wisdom within His Word that says "it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink" (Proverbs 31:4 KJV); And the very Scriptures themselves are a testimony of Jesus: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me" (John 5:39 KJV). So if this verse is true, I want you explain how Proverbs 31:4 is a testimony of Jesus Christ.

#4. Warnings against Alcohol.
Wine is a mocker (Proverbs 20:1). Strong drink is raging (Proverbs 20:1). Whoever is deceived by it is not wise (Proverbs 20:1). Wine bites like a serpent and stings like an adder (Proverbs 23:32). Do not look upon wine when it is red in the cup and when it moves itself aright (Proverbs 23:31). You have not eaten bread, neither have you drunk wine or strong drink: that you might know that I am the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 29:6). Who has woe? who has sorrow? who has contentions? who has babbling? who has wounds without cause? who has redness of eyes? (Proverbs 23:29). They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. (Proverbs 23:30).

#5. If Jesus did get people drunk (It would be a sin) & They would no longer be Sober.
Jesus could not have made alcoholic wine because John chapter 2 says, that the people at the wedding were "well drunk" (John 2:10 KJV). This means that they had already had drank a good amount of wine already and would have been either tipsy or close to being tipsy (at the very least). Jesus creating more good wine (i.e. good wine supposedly meaning that it was stronger in alcoholic content) would have contributed to the intoxication of those at the wedding party. This means that if they were not sober before, Jesus creating even more stronger alcoholic wine would have definitely made them at least tipsy or with having a mind that was not sober. This is a direct violation of Scripture that commands Christians to be sober (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV). So were they sober at the wedding or not? Also, Paul even warns that drunkenness is the type of sin that will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God, too (Galatians 5:21).

#6. Christ set a good example by His miracle.
The public creation of alcoholic wine would also contradict Romans chapter 14 that tells us that you are not to do anything to make your brother to stumble. For verse 21 says, "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything whereby thy brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak" (Romans 14:21 KJV). For a public wedding of drinking and the writing down of that event is like a giant billboard sign declaring to Christians who have struggled with alcoholism and have put it away could then think that it is okay to drink again (when their conscience condemns it and or because they are horribly addicted to it). This would be the same thing as a Christian drinking in front of an alcoholic (knowing they are an alcoholic); For if a Christian were to do so, they could make this alcoholic stumble back into alcoholism again. Which would be evil. For Romans 14 says, "Let not then your good be evil spoken of" (Romans 14:16 KJV). Jesus knows there are alcoholics who would read John chapter 2. Such a stamp of approval on alcohol could easily send them back into alcoholism. This would be evil.

Conclusion:
Jesus did not create alcoholic wine as a part of His miracle in John 2; And nor did He even drink the Biblical wine that OT saints drank which was mixed with water and lower in alcoholic content. Jesus drank with his disciples of the fruit of the vine at the Last Supper. The fruit of the vine is what the Scriptures say He drank (Matthew 26:29). The fruit of the vine is grape juice! --- Not fermented intoxicating alcohol! That would be like calling an orange smoothie drink in being like the fruit of the orange!

As with the world,
we are free to choose to believe whatever suits our fancy,

irregardless if what we choose to believe is grounded in truth or falsehood.

There are those that attempt to make a distinction between old wine and "NEW WINE", saying that new wine was GRAPE JUICE.

Of course those that try to draw this separation choose to ignore any TRUTH that dispels what the WANT TO BELIEVE.

So IF IT WERE TRUTH that "New Wine" was non-alcoholic, how could the Apostles be accused of being(drunk) FULL OF "NEW WINE"(grape juice)?

Acts 2:13
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Alittlereality · Nov 4, 2017

Francis Drake said:
These voices are demons. They need to be cast out just as Jesus commanded.

Ive found its actually a method of scientific discovery. They are able to use a computer of sorts to project wave patterns on me transducing false beings which are really programs

6 Biblical Reasons Why Jesus Made Unfermented Wine (Grape Juice).

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Great is thy faithfulness

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Charismatic Episcopalian

Charismatic Episcopalian

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Active Member

Active Member

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Kaitiaki Peacemakers NZ

Returning adventurer.

Fading curmudgeon

Great is thy faithfulness

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If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:

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