Alcohol isn't sinful.

Gregory Thompson · Nov 2, 2017

Devin P said:
There's recently been posts demonizing the use of alcohol, and I figured, we'd take a look at what the bible says regarding this.

Right off the bat, in the Torah ( which means both: the first five books of the bible, and the instructions given by God)

Deuteronomy 14:26 - And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

The words "wine", and for "strong drink" both come from the hebrew words
for wine: " יַיִן " - which means "wine"
and strong drink: " שֵׁכָר " - which means "strong drink, intoxicating drink, or intoxicating liquor."

So right off the bat, if someone tells you that alcohol is sinful - if that were true. Then God Himself, right here in Deuteronomy would be guilty of sinning, because for the feast of Sukkot, one of His Holy Days, He approves of people buying and drinking intoxicating beverages.

Does this mean that we should be drunk, habitually? No. You can easily drink whiskey or vodka, or wine without getting drunk - let alone without getting drunk habitually. It's just going to take self-control. Judge how much you can drink, pay attention to how you feel, and enjoy it, without going over board. Stop when you think you should stop, but be honest with yourself. And don't make a habit of it, that's all He asks. That, and love someone enough to not drink in front of them if you know they struggle with it. But, don't put man-made laws and restrictions on it, banning the use of it. It's unbiblical, and it's accepted by God Himself. Bad things happen in the bible when people get drunk, yes, but that's why you don't get drunk. Use self-control, and caution.

Much love, God bless you my brothers and sisters.

Thanks for posting this. Prohibition only happened in North America so it's not that hard to figure out where the attitude (that it is sinful) came from.

Alittlereality · Nov 2, 2017

Jason0047 said:
No. That is not true.

See this blog article I created here:

Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God

If you were to seriously take the time to look through the evidences, you will be absolutely without excuse that God's Word is divine and perfect.

Again, not true. You would not care to say this if we were talking about some other holy book. The Bible is clearly the Word of God and you know that fact deep down, otherwise you would not seek to undermine it or attack it.

The Bible says that getting drunk is wrong. Alcohol slowly can kill your body over time; Especially if you abuse it. Cigarettes can destroy your life quickly if you are not careful. Both of these are drugs and they are addictive and costly. You can harm yourself and harm others with these drugs. So if you don't care about yourself or others, then you will not care to stop in doing these things.

Don't believe everything you hear. Trust in God and His Word.

No. Hell is real and it is described within His Word. Granted, it is not a torture chamber in flames that will burn your flesh like a steak or anything but it is not a place you want to be.

What Scripture says that? Or are you receiving some kind of other revelation?
Do not be deceived. The Bible warns against following another Jesus.

No. The Bible we have today matches up with the Dead Sea Scrolls (Which was a discovery several decades ago).

That is because you have been convinced by some false author who chooses to look at the bad side of the Bible instead of the good within it. The Bible records things that are in real life sometimes. It records men's sins to point how we need a Savior (Jesus Christ) who can save us from our sins.

The Bible is about life. It records the evil of men's sins. It shows you the depravity of man that points for the need of a Savior. For you have to realize God created sex. He created body parts. Sex is good if it is within the bounds of marriage. But sometimes people do not follow God's plan (which is what the Bible describes sometimes). The majority of the Bible is not written like a inappropriate content novel. There are only occasional references of certain things that describe the evilness of mankind. The majority of God's Word is chocked full of wisdom, truth, and commands that will lead you all the more deeper into a relationship with God. Try reading the New Testament for a change. However, if your goal is to find a problem with God's Word, then that is what you will see. But if you believe God's Word by faith, it will change you in ways you never thought possible.

Yes the bible matches up to the scrolls "in this dimensional reality" im a shifted person not to sound crazy where my bible from there never had any descriptive inappropriate content and mentioned the lion and lamb not wolf and lamb. If you havent go watch all the personal stories of how all kinds of things are shifted for people. On youtube the videos are endless. Im amazed people on this dimensional plane are so locked in they cant see reality punching them while stating "stop hitting yourself"

Devin P · Nov 2, 2017

Jason0047 said:
First of all, Deuteronomy 14:26 was given to Israel and not to the church. Yes, "God's Eternal Moral Laws" have remained unchanged (since the "Fall of Adam" like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) but we have to be able to rightly divide the Word of truth in what applies and what does not apply to us Christians today. Deuteronomy 14:1-2 deals with copying pagan customs like cutting yourself and shaving bald spots on your head for the dead (Which I believe still applies today because 3 John 1:11 says we are not to imitate evil but we are to imitate that which is good). Deuteronomy 14:3-21 deals with the laws to Israel on clean and unclean foods (Which no longer applies to the believer under the New Covenant because God told Peter to eat unclean animals - See Acts of the Apostles 10:9-16). Deuteronomy 14:22-29 deals with tithes involving worship. So the feast in Deuteronomy 14:26 is a celebration of worshiping God and in tithing. So it is not just a party.

Second, Deuteronomy 14:26 is in reference to the purchasing of these items and it is not in reference to the immediate ingestion of these things. It says, "And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after,." (Deuteronomy 14:26). This is important to understand because they bought wine and strong drink whereby they would have diluted it with water so as to be drinkable. How so?

Well, the Bible mentions that there are three types of wines.

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content)
#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).

I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses (Wine Type #2):

Revelation 14:10 says,
"The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb." (cf. Psalms 75:8).

1 Timothy 5:23 (NASB) says,
"No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments."

Proverbs 9:2 (NLT) says,
"She has prepared a great banquet, mixed the wines, and set the table."

Proverbs 23:31 - "Do not look at wine when it is red."

John 19:34 (Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood - See Matthew 26:27-29).

Isaiah 1:22 NIV says,
“Your silver has become dross, your choice wine is diluted with water.”

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry

If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to use it.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine (for the times).

Wine could be carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.

Three, if you were to keep reading in Deuteronomy, it says,

"Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the LORD your God" (Deuteronomy 29:6).

So it looks like they did not drink of wine and strong drink in Deuteronomy. They did this as a part of showing that they might know the Lord their God. So I am sorry to inform you that Deuteronomy 14:26 is not a license for you to think that alcoholic beverages is this great gift from God. That would be ignoring the context and the rest of the Bible.

Now, it is true, the New Testament saint can drink alcoholic beverages and it is not a sin; But what is lawful is not always profitable. For example: It may be lawful for you to walk through a pit of spitting cobras but it is not profitable. However, the OT saint did not have the same liberty in Christ that we do today. The Israelites had many restrictions we did not have (like do not eat unclean animals, etc.).

But let's not act like alcohol is this super amazing thing. That would be silly. Moderately strong alcohol has no nutrition labels on them because it has no nutrition. It is technically a poison or a drug because...

"The long-term use of alcohol is capable of damaging nearly every organ and system in the body. Health effects associated with alcohol intake in large amounts include an increased risk of alcoholism, malnutrition, chronic pancreatitis, alcoholic liver disease, and cancer. In addition, damage to the central nervous system and peripheral nervous system can occur from chronic alcohol abuse."

Source:
Long-term effects of alcohol consumption - Wikipedia

Jesus said you will know a tree by it's fruit. Lets check the fruits of alcohol.

(CDC) 100,000 people die each year from alcohol-related causes: drinking and driving crashes, other accidents, falls, fires, alcohol-related homicides and suicides. (NCAAD) Of the 3.9 million Americans who received treatment for a substance abuse problem in 2005, 2.5 million of them were treated for alcohol use.

God's gift to man? If you say so.

It doesn't matter whether or not something was given to Israel or the "church". Is God saying it's acceptable for Israel to sin, but not the church?

Throughout the OT scriptures, Israel is compared to, and described as an olive tree. In Romans 11, Paul says the great mystery he wishes we don't miss, is that by faith, we are grafted into this olive tree. By faith, you become Israel, and therefore the whole Torah is for you.

Does this mean that original Israel is grafted out? No. We're grafted in, with them, as Paul, natural Israel stated.

So irregardless of this fact, God didn't make it acceptable for gentiles not to sin, and Israel to sin.

If alcohol was sinful, then while He was among Israel, He would've forbade it altogether, and He definitely wouldn't of allowed it and promoted it during a feast time. We've already talked this over on the other thread, and you've still yet to answer any of the questions I took like half an hour typing up.

It's not a sin, but the over indulgence and abuse of it, can be sinful. If it's sin to you, don't do it, but don't teach others that it's a sin, when the word of God itself directly opposes that statement.

Notice I linked one verse. Because that one verse proves that it's not a sin. Debate God, not me. He directly gave His approval of it, in a time that was arguably more strict for obedience than it is now. Although it wasn't technically, just some situational things have occurred, but I digress.

RadiantGrace · Nov 2, 2017

Michael Collum said:
Thanks for posting this. Prohibition only happened in North America so it's not that hard to figure out where the attitude (that it is sinful) came from.

Prohibition turned naturally occuring substances with many health benefits into something to be abused. We in the US continue this insane pursuit against all reason.

How many people think pot should be illegal and alcohol legal? I like booze and despite using it, have no interest in marijuana, but I am the first to admit alcohol is more harmful on all levels.

We have people addicted to pills, but no medical marijuana. Our government subsidizes corn, making the highly dangerous, highly cheap, high fructose corn syrup that causes innumerable health problems.

GingerBeer · Nov 2, 2017

Devin P said:
There's recently been posts demonizing the use of alcohol

Of course alcohol is not sinful otherwise it would not be part of the Lord's supper in the wine that is the blood of Christ.

Devin P · Nov 2, 2017

RadiantGrace said:
Prohibition turned naturally occuring substances with many health benefits into something to be abused. We in the US continue this insane pursuit against all reason.

How many people think pot should be illegal and alcohol legal? I like booze and despite using it, have no interest in marijuana, but I am the first to admit alcohol is more harmful on all levels.

We have people addicted to pills, but no medical marijuana. Our government subsidizes corn, making the highly dangerous, highly cheap, high fructose corn syrup that causes innumerable health problems.

Amen to that, high fructose corn syrup causes all sorts of cancers, and develops obesity, heart disease, diabetes, all sorts of ailments, that they then have the "cure" for, in the form of very expensive pills. Although, the cures for diabetes and heart diseases have been found just in the simple alteration of diet and exercise.

I believe, just as men aren't supposed to have anal sex with a woman, because the bible says it's "against the natural" as in, the anus was meant for things to come out, not go in. There is no mention of smoking, so (in my opinion at least) i feel marijuana is fine, so long as it's used for eating, or teas, but smoking I'd have to be against it. That's my conviction anyway, I'm not saying it's a "thus saith the Lord" type thing, that's just where my heart is on it. Because it only does harm to our bodies, and therefore I feel that since my body is His temple, I shouldn't do that which is against nature - e.g. breathe something into my lungs that isn't air.

Again, that's my conviction on it, and I'm not condemning those that smoke it. I feel that using it in small doses, really small doses in food, or in teas is fine though. In my opinion, and yes it can help greatly our health in all sorts of ways it seems today.

Alittlereality · Nov 2, 2017

Devin P said:
Amen to that, high fructose corn syrup causes all sorts of cancers, and develops obesity, heart disease, diabetes, all sorts of ailments, that they then have the "cure" for, in the form of very expensive pills. Although, the cures for diabetes and heart diseases have been found just in the simple alteration of diet and exercise.

I believe, just as men aren't supposed to have anal sex with a woman, because the bible says it's "against the natural" as in, the anus was meant for things to come out, not go in. There is no mention of smoking, so (in my opinion at least) i feel marijuana is fine, so long as it's used for eating, or teas, but smoking I'd have to be against it. That's my conviction anyway, I'm not saying it's a "thus saith the Lord" type thing, that's just where my heart is on it. Because it only does harm to our bodies, and therefore I feel that since my body is His temple, I shouldn't do that which is against nature - e.g. breathe something into my lungs that isn't air.

Again, that's my conviction on it, and I'm not condemning those that smoke it. I feel that using it in small doses, really small doses in food, or in teas is fine though. In my opinion, and yes it can help greatly our health in all sorts of ways it seems today.

The cure is creating a true alkaline state using kangen water 8.5-9.5 i would choose enagic they reduce the risk of dirty water and metalosis. Also spinach apples any alkaline foods. Eat 20% acidic to balance out stomach. Tumeric, honey, cinnamon. That will reduce diabetes, clear up skin, stop cancer from spreading.

Waggles · Nov 2, 2017

It may or may not be sinful - alcohol - but the scriptures have some
very good advice about consuming alcohol at the expense of one's testimony.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging, and whoever goes astray by it is not wise.
Proverbs 20:1

29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has fighting? Who has babbling?
Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes?
30 Those who stay long at the wine, those who go to seek mixed wine.
31 Do not look upon the wine when it is red, when it gives its colour in the cup,
when it goes down smoothly
32 At the last it bites like an asp and stings like an adder.
33 Your eyes shall look upon strange women and your heart shall
speak perverse things. [Oh, how true]
34 Yes, you shall be as one who lies down in the middle of the sea,
or as one who lies upon the top of a mast,
35 saying, They struck me; I was not sick; they beat me, but I did not know it.
When I awaken, I will add more. I will seek it again.
Proverbs 23:

And do not be drunk with wine, in which is excess, but be filled with the Spirit,
(the Holy Spirit not vodka or schnapps)
Ephesians 5:18

Apostleoftruth · Nov 3, 2017

Devin P said:
There's recently been posts demonizing the use of alcohol, and I figured, we'd take a look at what the bible says regarding this.

Right off the bat, in the Torah ( which means both: the first five books of the bible, and the instructions given by God)

Deuteronomy 14:26 - And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

The words "wine", and for "strong drink" both come from the hebrew words
for wine: " יַיִן " - which means "wine"
and strong drink: " שֵׁכָר " - which means "strong drink, intoxicating drink, or intoxicating liquor."

So right off the bat, if someone tells you that alcohol is sinful - if that were true. Then God Himself, right here in Deuteronomy would be guilty of sinning, because for the feast of Sukkot, one of His Holy Days, He approves of people buying and drinking intoxicating beverages.

Does this mean that we should be drunk, habitually? No. You can easily drink whiskey or vodka, or wine without getting drunk - let alone without getting drunk habitually. It's just going to take self-control. Judge how much you can drink, pay attention to how you feel, and enjoy it, without going over board. Stop when you think you should stop, but be honest with yourself. And don't make a habit of it, that's all He asks. That, and love someone enough to not drink in front of them if you know they struggle with it. But, don't put man-made laws and restrictions on it, banning the use of it. It's unbiblical, and it's accepted by God Himself. Bad things happen in the bible when people get drunk, yes, but that's why you don't get drunk. Use self-control, and caution.

Much love, God bless you my brothers and sisters.

This is simple, the act of drinking alcohol itself doesnt make you a sin if you are not drunk.

Waggles · Nov 3, 2017

But I believe Christians ought not to drink alcohol.
We need to be separate and distinct from worldly people and their
lifestyle habits.
Also if a brother or sister is an ex-alcoholic and has come to the Lord
then our permission of drinking can be a stumbling block for such a
convert. And if they allow themselves to drink alcohol because other
Christians drink alcohol and they relapse back into sinful addictions ...
then we are responsible for that.

15 But if your brother is grieved with your food, you no longer walk according
to love. Do not with your food destroy him for whom Christ died.
16 Then do not let your good be spoken evil of,
17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and
peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Romans 14:

com7fy8 · Nov 3, 2017

Even if alcohol is ok, what can it do, in comparison with all the good God's love does us?

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Corinthians 6:12)

Anguspure · Nov 3, 2017

Devin P said:
I believe, just as men aren't supposed to have anal sex with a woman, because the bible says it's "against the natural" as in, the anus was meant for things to come out, not go in.

It's not just the Bible that says this but also Science. But Scientists (and Doctors and Nurses) as a rule don't because they are all trying to be politically correct so they can get some funding.

Anguspure · Nov 3, 2017

Alittlereality said:
The cure is creating a true alkaline state using kangen water 8.5-9.5 i would choose enagic they reduce the risk of dirty water and metalosis. Also spinach apples any alkaline foods. Eat 20% acidic to balance out stomach. Tumeric, honey, cinnamon. That will reduce diabetes, clear up skin, stop cancer from spreading.

Vitamin D in the form of good ole' fashion sunshine is also a good thing, believe it or not.

Anguspure · Nov 3, 2017

Waggles said:
It may or may not be sinful - alcohol - but the scriptures have some
very good advice about consuming alcohol at the expense of one's testimony.

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging, and whoever goes astray by it is not wise.
Proverbs 20:1

29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has fighting? Who has babbling?
Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes?
30 Those who stay long at the wine, those who go to seek mixed wine.
31 Do not look upon the wine when it is red, when it gives its colour in the cup,
when it goes down smoothly
32 At the last it bites like an asp and stings like an adder.
33 Your eyes shall look upon strange women and your heart shall
speak perverse things. [Oh, how true]
34 Yes, you shall be as one who lies down in the middle of the sea,
or as one who lies upon the top of a mast,
35 saying, They struck me; I was not sick; they beat me, but I did not know it.
When I awaken, I will add more. I will seek it again.
Proverbs 23:

And do not be drunk with wine, in which is excess, but be filled with the Spirit,
(the Holy Spirit not vodka or schnapps)
Ephesians 5:18

Proverbs 23....been there many times. But I really was in the middle of the sea, lying atop the mast. Did you know a drunken sailor on a rolling deck is quite steady? 'tis true.

Anguspure · Nov 3, 2017

Waggles said:
But I believe Christians ought not to drink alcohol.
We need to be separate and distinct from worldly people and their
lifestyle habits.
Also if a brother or sister is an ex-alcoholic and has come to the Lord
then our permission of drinking can be a stumbling block for such a
convert. And if they allow themselves to drink alcohol because other
Christians drink alcohol and they relapse back into sinful addictions ...
then we are responsible for that.

15 But if your brother is grieved with your food, you no longer walk according
to love. Do not with your food destroy him for whom Christ died.
16 Then do not let your good be spoken evil of,
17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and
peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Romans 14:

I agree. So when the Worldly people are moralist puritanical health nut teetotallers, what do you do then?

Waggles · Nov 3, 2017

Anguspure said:
I agree. So when the Worldly people are moralist puritanical health nut teetotallers, what do you do then?

worldly people may be self development life achieving eternal youth nuts, BUT
they sure love their red wine.

1Ti 4:7 But avoid foolish and old wives fables: and exercise thyself unto godliness.
1Ti 4:8 For bodily exercise is profitable to little: but godliness is profitable to
all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come.

Anguspure · Nov 3, 2017

Waggles said:
worldly people may be self development life achieving eternal youth nuts, BUT
they sure love their red wine.

1Ti 4:7 But avoid foolish and old wives fables: and exercise thyself unto godliness.
1Ti 4:8 For bodily exercise is profitable to little: but godliness is profitable to
all things, having promise of the life that now is and of that which is to come.

In the land of Oz it is beer (by alchohol percentage and the flavour be damned) and the more discerning are discovering the joys of whisky (not mixed with anything apart from whisky).
But the godless health nuts? Well they are just determined to live as long as possible in the best possible way because: "Once you're dead then thats it".
So my question is if I am to be different from them, in respect of lifestyle including thier distinct lack of alchohol consumption (for secular health reasons), what should be my response? Or are these people simply lost without recourse?

Waggles · Nov 3, 2017

Anguspure said:
So my question is if I am to be different from them, in respect of lifestyle including thier distinct lack of alchohol consumption (for secular health reasons), what should be my response? Or are these people simply lost without recourse?

Yes they are lost. Jane Fonda is their saviour, with the gospel of healthy eating and exercise
[and one must ride a bicycle to enter this realm of the eternally young].

But in my pentecostal Fellowship the desire and need for alcohol, cigarettes, marijuana
and other addictions of the flesh are washed away by baptism of the Holy Spirit.
We are set free and are no longer slaves to any vices of the flesh.

But they still need the gospel of salvation preached to them.

StevenBelievin · Nov 3, 2017

fat wee robin said:
Tell the Italians ,the French and the Spanish alcohol is bad ,and thye will tell you correctly that a smal regular glass of red wine or good whisky allows you to live longer and makes for a happier society .America and Scotland had the worst problems because in the First case hey banned it completely and in the second you had the Temperence movement .Miserable people love to make everyone the same , when they have to give up their addictions everyone must . America had the prohibition laws and look what happened there , Al Capone etc.

You might want to throw the Germans in there too. They love their beer..

Archivist · Nov 3, 2017

StevenBelievin said:
You might want to throw the Germans in there too. They love their beer..

Actually beer was commonly consumed by the lower-class Egyptians, so Jesus may have been a beer drinker when He grew up in Egypt.

Alcohol isn't sinful.

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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