The Seven Crowns of Rev. 12 vs. the 10 Crowns of Rev. 13

Douggg said:

In Revelation 17 - the little horn is the future 7th king.

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I think you are missing the crux of my point brother, maybe I stated it poorly as I am known to do.

In Rev. 17 the Angel is explaining the Seven Headed Beast and 10 horns to John so neither is the focus of the chapter per se, they are both a part of the chapter along with the Harlot woman. By now we already know they are Kings via chapters 12 and 13, that doesn't need repeating.

In Rev. 12 the Subject is the Dragon (Satan) and thus John sees a Dragon with Seven Heads and 10 Horns but the Heads are the only part of the Beast that has crowns, that is because the Seven Heads are Kingdoms of the Dragon (Satan) and thus he is over the Seventh Head who is over the 10 Horns (Kings). But this is about the Dragon and those IMMEDIATELY UNDER Him, or under his Demon Apollyon the 8th King, same thing.

Rev. 13 is about the BEAST ARISING out of the Sea, not the Dragon per se. The Dragon gives the Beast his power, but the chapter is about the BEAST so thus the 10 Horns have Crowns showing the POWER OF THE BEASTS Kingdom.

My point is each chapter identifies specific powers of the Entity they are speaking of. Ch. 12 identifies the Dragon's powers as being over the Heads, thus the Crowns. In Rev. 13 it identifies the Beast's powers as being over the 10 Kings thus the Crowns on the 10 horns. In Rev. 17 the Angel is not trying to identify a POWER per se but to explain the Seven Heads and the 10 Horned Entity, and the 8th Kings that is over it, which in my opinion is Apollyon, a Demon that Satan the Dragon has placed over the Beasts that come against Israel.

Douggg said:

In Revelation 12 - the little horn person as the 7th king will have come to power. And shortly becomes the Antichrist - King of israel - the seven years begin

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As you know, I agree with you that he becomes the 7th Head, but I disagree that he becomes the King of Israel. { }

Douggg said:

In Revelation 13 - The little horn person in Revelation 13 will have revealed himself to be the man of sin, (no longer is the Antichrist). He is killed for his action and brought back to life - to become the beast persona - possessed by the unclean spirit from the bottomless pit. 42 months left in the seven years.

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I think he is the Man of Sin and ANTI-CHRIST the whole time. He loves Sin and hes Anti-God/Christ the for his whole lifespan brother. I agree he becomes the BEAST for only 42 Months if that's what you are speaking of him becoming. I do not think he is killed at all, men do not die and come back to life brother. It is given unto men once to die, then the Judgment.

I am also not sure he is possessed by anyone, but its possible. The 8th King/Demon/Apollyon could posses him. I think he is probably just a God hater on his own.

Douggg said:

In regards to the interpretation of:

Revelation 17 - heads, no crowns
Revelation 12 - heads, crowns
Revelation 13 - heads, no crowns, one head mortally wounded, recovers.

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I think I have spoken about what I believe the "Mortal Wound" is, no use rehashing it now. Maybe later.

Riberra said:

Then, the Papacy was right about the danger of corrupted Bibles versions....

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Guys lets get back on topic, In my opinion the Catholic Church is a Church used by God to save souls, even if some in the hierarchy are corrupt. The RCC is not the Beast and is not a part of the Beast and the supposed 10 Nations (Saxons etc.) from years ago are basically a fabricated prophecy, IMHO.

The 10 Kings are going to be the 10 Nations left in the European Union after the shaking that is to come.

Douggg said:

RT, that in blue is is the exact point where you are going wrong. Just stick with the seven heads being seven sequential kings of the fourth empire.

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Why would I do that Mr Douggg? John calls them a Beast on purpose, they are supposed to be the same Beast(s) of Daniel 7, we are shown that by John/Angel telling us the Leopard, Lion and Bear are a part of this BEAST, that is not a mistake. Thus the Seven Heads are the Seven Nations/Kingdoms that have been Beasts over Israel/Middle East, and that includes the Anti-Christ who becomes a Beast along with all the rest of the known Beasts (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the coming Anti-Christ).

There is really no question that these Seven Kingdoms are Middle Eastern Powers over the Region of the Holy land, that is just not in question. I truly think people are overthinking this, These Seven Kingdoms are the ONLY Kingdoms over the Middle East/Holy Lands while Israel is a Nation in the area. Egypt was the power when Israel came into being, Joseph went unto Egypt and thus Israel were freed by God who sent them Moses to deliver them. Assyria was a power and they took captive the Northern Tribes. Babylon, Persia, Greece and Romes adventures are well known. The coming Anti-Christ will of course Conquer Jerusalem.

Douggg said:

To become the Antichrist, the person has to become the King of Israel. The only place in Revelation, becoming the King of Israel, is the person as the rider on the white horse (representing that he is the messiah role) in Revelation 6 who is given a crown - i.e. anointed the King of Israel.

His time as the Antichrist - King of Israel - will be limited to.... up until he reveals himself as the man of sin.

The little horn person becomes leader of Europe, heads to the middle east following Gog/Magog, takes over the oil, the Jews think he is the messiah, he is anointed the king of Israel, the 7 years begin, in the middle he claims to be God, he is impeached, God has him killed, and brings him back to life, he becomes the beast, he is cast into the lake of fire when Jesus returns.

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As you know I vehemently disagree with this, I do not see the "Anti-Christ" becoming the "King of Israel" in scriptures anywhere Doug, I see this as people following age old men's traditions, of which I used to buy in, but I am a stickler for scriptures brother, and I follow where led by the scriptures. Israel REPENTS before the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem, so why would they accept him as their King? (Malachi 4:5-6 says Elijah turns Israel back unto God BEFORE the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD). Israel FLEE unto the Wilderness when the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem and defiles the Temple. This means what Mr Doug? It means they (WATCH THIS and think logically here) are HEEDING JESUS' WARNING from Matthew 24, Jews currently DO NOT READ the New Testament Doug, which means if they Flee to where Jesus forewarned them to flee then they have already repented, have been reading the New Testament, and are thus heeded Jesus' warning, at that time in the future.

Zechariah 14:1-2 is the sacking/conquering of Jerusalem by the Anti-Christ, then Zechariah 14:3-4 is Jesus defeating the Anti-Christ at the 6th and 7th Vials. (Armageddon). We are told ALL ISRAEL will be saved, Paul is not speaking about every Jew, else he would have stated that, he is speaking about Israels seed being preserved, ALL ISRAEL will be saved, we know 2/3 of Jews are killed and a Remnant is saved via scriptures, so ALL ISRAEL is the 1/3 who flee unto the wilderness. Why did they flee? They had FAITH.......Boom. Remember Paul's words to the Romans? He said about Israel, and if they stay not in UNBELIEF they will be Grafted back in. Israel repent or Atones and thus they are Christians/Accept their Messiah Jesus before the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem.

The Ant-Christ is not given a TRUE CROWN or shown by the Angel with a TRUE CROWN Mr Doug. The Crown in Rev. ch 6 and the Crown shown in Rev. ch. 19 are TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT CROWNS, the two Greek words used have different meaning.

In Revelation 6:2 the Greek word used is STEPHANOS which means TWINE or WREATH:

1a1) the wreath or garland which was given as a prize to victors in public games

#4735 Στέφανος stephanos {stef'-an-os}

from an apparently primary stepho (to twine or wreathe);
TDNT - 7:615,1078; n m

So this Greek word implies a Crown of one that is made of Twine, something won in a Contest, and thus the Anti-Christ Conquers and goes forth to Conquer thus he wins his "Crown" as a Victor.

In Revelation 19:12 the Greek word used is DIADEMA which means a Kingly ornament.

1b) the kingly ornament for the head, the crown

#1238 G1223 and G1210; TDNT - n/a; n n

Lets Compare the two verses here also..........and see if we can see a difference in the meaning.

Rev. 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were MANY CROWNS; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Rev. 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and A CROWN was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer (Stephanos = a Prize for WINNING a victory).

So Rev. ch. uses a Word that implies the Anti-Christ gets his Crown by CONQUERING whilst the Rider on the White Horse (Jesus) in Rev. 19:12 has MANY CROWNS (King of Kings) on his Head, he is a Royal Priest of the highest order.

Rev. 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

So the Anti-Christ is not shown as the King of the Jews Mr Doug, he is shown as a CONQUEROR who wins his crown by Conquering Israel/Jerusalem.

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I think the Anti-Christ comes out of Europe, then he Conquers Jerusalem and of course this VERY ACT is what Reveals him to the world as the Beast (of course his blind hordes will not see it until Seal #6) but the Jews will understand it, they will have repented and are now (at that time) not blind anymore. The Remnant of the Church will see it, they will still be BEHEADED, but they understand who he is when he Conquers Jerusalem.

So when this MAN/Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem he will be seen as THE BEAST (Hes Revealed). The word of course means to make known.

Douggg said:

Most likely will be 10 regions of the EU.

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I see it as 10 Kings like the bible says, then three are defeated and are no more. If it was "Regions" brother you couldn't go down to Seven IMHO.

Douggg said:

"Christ" means the King of Israel. "Anti" Christ means the Anti- King of Israel. Anti - Pope, in similitude, meant a pope other than the one in Rome. Antipope - Wikipedia

Anti-Christ means instead of and against Jesus the rightful King of Israel.

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Not really, Christ is Greek for Messiah or ANOINTED ONE who is the King of Kings. Anti means one who stands against. So the Anti-Christ is he who stands up against the Messiah, just like Daniel chapter 8:25 says.

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he (Anti-Christ) shall also STAND UP against the Prince of princes (Jesus); but he shall be broken without hand.

Douggg said:

The person will be killed for committing the transgression desolation, sitting in the temple of God, claiming to be God.

The person dies. And he will be brought back alive - just like ever evil man, unsaved, who has ever existed eventually will be - and will be cast alive into the lake of fire, in Revelation 19:20. The others in Revelation 20:15.

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The Scriptures do not say that brother, it speaks about the "FIGURATIVE BEAST: having a Mortal Wound and that happened when Israel was dispersed all around the World, Rome CEASED being a Beast because of course their was NO ISRAEL to BEAST OVER. The Man when he Conquers Jerusalem will be ALL POWERFUL by that time, no one is going to kill him, he is going to kill Billions of peoples.

Douggg said:

RT, it is almost 100% universally thought that way - what you are saying.

However, it is in error. Being the Antichrist is a role the person will be in for a short period of time. Just like being the little horn. He is not the little horn by birth. He becomes the little horn by being leader of the fourth kingdom.

The person becomes the Antichrist when he is anointed the King of Israel, instead of and against Jesus the rightful King of Israel. And stops being the Antichrist, King of Israel, when the Jews impeach him for going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God.

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As you know I disagree with this, and what Jews think while they are blinded is not very valuable unto me, except for some historical things and translations. Their interpretations of Scriptures I do not at this point value very much unless of course they are Messianic Jews.

I think he stands AGAINST CHRIST.

Riberra said:

Only when Satan will be cast out of Heaven Revelation 12:7-9...we will see the completion of the Beast Empire Revelation 13...the Fourth Beast empire mentioned in Daniel 7.

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This is true......and this happens during Rev. ch. 6 RIGHT? )) I even see the 6th Seal part about the Heavens being shaken and Stars falling to earth (Angels to me) as Satan being cast out of Heaven. I am not 100 percent on this, but this has been gaining traction with me the last year or so.

Rev. 6:13 And the stars (Fallen Angels??) of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs (TIME TO GO..LOL), when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The Fourth Beast morphs into the 5th Beast which is IMHO, the 7th Beast Head counting Egypt and Assyria.

Riberra said:

As for the 10 administrative worldwide regions the planning is in action ...The modern State of Israel was created in 1948 for the sole purpose to achieve the illuminati plan.
Their plan is that after WW3 the World will be ready for their One World Order.
SEE:
UN Divides the World into 10 Regional Groupings

and
WW3 - Albert Pike and the Three World Wars

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I don't see the UN as being a player, they are a toothless tiger as we speak who has never been able to get anything done, this BEAST os going to be a European Union President who is born in Greece. (Bank on it)

Servant232 said:

The fourth beast was the Roman Empire, and when it collapsed, out of its head, the western empire arose 10 nations Dan 7:20

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Why do you say this brother?

Rev. 17:12 And the ten horns (Kings/Nations you mentioned) which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings ONE HOUR (SHORT TIME) WITH the beast. (Thus we understand these 10 Kings are END TIME Kings because the BEAST is and END TIME BEAST.) If something doesn't fit, its like the Rubik's cube, we have to try again, we can't just say this is close enough, I have all the color blocks in place except for one so this is close enough, I am going to say the riddle is solved, it just doesn't work that way. We have to search until we find an answer that fits all of the Scriptures.

The Beast Head (Roman one) has a Mortal Wound when Israel becomes rejected by God, is seen as Dead Men's Bones from 70 AD (Maybe 125 AD) to 1948, there was NO ISRAEL so there could be NO BEAST. Thus Rome was the Mortal Wound, thus the Fourth Beast is revived 2000 years Later by the Little Horn, except its a whole other head, its a different Beast {{{ Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise (END TIME): and another (Little Horn/Anti-Christ) shall rise after them; and he (Anti-Christ) shall be diverse from the first (Rome), and he shall subdue three kings.}}}

So I do not see those 10 Kings as arising Centuries ago brother.

Servant232 said:

And Another Little horn/Nation arose after them and plucked up three of the first 10 by the roots. Dan 7:8

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This is true, as I quoted above in Daniel 7:24, but its still END TIME KINGS.

The rest is kind of way out there stuff...............