Proper understanding, purpose and use of icons?

“Paisios” · Oct 31, 2017

Again, thank you for your patience with my numerous basic questions regarding Orthodoxy.

Would someone be able to explain in clear terms the Orthodox understanding, use and purpose of icons? Or perhaps direct me to a resource that might be of use for my understanding?

And could you explain the difference between veneration and worship, in the context of icons? I know there is a difference, but could use some understanding of this.

What icons do most lay Orthodox have in their homes? Or is this an individual choice with great variety? And what is the reason for those choices?

Thank you again for any replies.

christianforumsuser · Oct 31, 2017

I don't know all the formalities humans preach
Just don't mix religions and worldly things and carnal thoughts with Scripture
So even if I don't answer your question how you and your people tend to prefer, I've told you far better.

“Paisios” · Oct 31, 2017

christianforumsuser said:
I don't know all the formalities humans preach
Just don't mix religions and worldly things and carnal thoughts with Scripture
So even if I don't answer your question how you and your people tend to prefer, I've told you far better.

Thank you for your thoughts. Nonetheless, I would seek understanding of others’ beliefs.

christianforumsuser · Oct 31, 2017

Of course. Not to be like the white europeans who invaded Americas only for profits and to enslave people of other skin colors and whatnot
My mother seems a bit racist but that's probably just how they grew up in that culture

I'd like so be around the ordinary low people, else I'd act like rich white religious uppity people.
But also the people in cultures don't even understand their own culture. They do it, but don't have understanding.
So rather than to just destroy anything foreign or different...or trying to conform various religions to do away with their ideas and become the "CHristian ideal"...maybe not do it in that closed-minded ignorance I've seen.
What's filthy is filthy...but there's history you can't ignore. Someone might think it's an either or...or some sort of compromise. To beat someone until they submit and conform or to accept them as they are...or look at what they are but do all things by true faith

anna ~ grace · Oct 31, 2017

Eastern Orthodox Christians and Iconography | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Iconography

“Paisios” · Oct 31, 2017

christianforumsuser said:
Of course. Not to be like the white europeans who invaded Americas only for profits and to enslave people of other skin colors and whatnot
My mother seems a bit racist but that's probably just how they grew up in that culture

I'd like so be around the ordinary low people, else I'd act like rich white religious uppity people.
But also the people in cultures don't even understand their own culture. They do it, but don't have understanding.
So rather than to just destroy anything foreign or different...or trying to conform various religions to do away with their ideas and become the "CHristian ideal"...maybe not do it in that closed-minded ignorance I've seen.
What's filthy is filthy...but there's history you can't ignore. Someone might think it's an either or...or some sort of compromise. To beat someone until they submit and conform or to accept them as they are...or look at what they are but do all things by true faith

Forgive me, but I’m not quite following all of this as it relates to my original inquiry...

“Paisios” · Oct 31, 2017

Gracia Singh said:
Eastern Orthodox Christians and Iconography | Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese

Iconography - OrthodoxWiki

Thank you very much.

christianforumsuser · Oct 31, 2017

In regards to "seeking understanding of others' beliefs"
As for religious tradition you can go on following formalities men boast of

anna ~ grace · Oct 31, 2017

Shoetoyou said:
Thank you very much.

Welcome! God bless you, too!

FenderTL5 · Oct 31, 2017

Worship is for God alone.

Veneration in an illustration, the illustration may not be prefect nor complete but it helped me (note: my background is SBC/independent Baptist so warming up to the idea of icons along with the smells and bells took some time for me. It was the theology and history that initially drew me into Orthodoxy) .

A father was playing hide and seek with his children one evening. At one point he went outside and peered in through the large living room picture window. When the children finally saw him.. he could be heard saying, "come, kiss your father." So the children ran to the window and kissed where his face pressed against the glass.
So, did the children kiss their father or did they merely kiss a piece of glass?
The icons are 'windows into heaven' in much the same way. We may literally kiss the wood and paint but it is the person represented that is being venerated.

Veneration is honor and respect. Our priest indicated that when we come to church, particularly at the Divine Liturgy which opens with "Blessed is the Kingdom.." we are in the presence of both the church militant (on earth) and the church triumphant (in heaven). It is 'here' where heaven meets earth. We are in the presence of the saints. The custom of kissing the hand (which is typically where an icon is venerated) is the ancient way of showing respect to an elder. In the east, bowing to each other is also practiced. This is all part of veneration and in no way implies the person being venerated is being worshiped. We greet the saints through their icons in the narthex in the same ways we greet fellow parishioners entering the church along with us.

The icon/prayer corner in our house:

Christ and the theotokos, the patron saints of my wife and I.
In the frame, Palm Sunday (I was Chrismated on Lazarus Saturday, this is from the calendar that year). There's a few small ones tucked in here there that came through the IOCC mailings or were given at church, etc.
My daughter has her patron Saint in her prayer corner in her room along with a diptych of Christ and Theotokos.

ArmyMatt · Oct 31, 2017

icons also make the invisible cloud of witnesses visible, and prove the Church in heaven and the Church on earth are one Church. this also means that is Christ, there are no barriers, not even death. so when we go to Church, we stand invisibly present not only with each other, but also with Moses, Isaiah, Peter, Mary, etc.

All4Christ · Oct 31, 2017

This is mine. It is a collection of icons from the past ten years

It normally has a cross in the center, but I had it moved at the time (I sometimes move it to different places in the house if needed, especially for prosfora baking, etc.). I also received two icons as gifts on my chrismation, and one at our wedding.

Icons of Jesus, the Theotokos (typically holding Jesus), the cross and your patron saint are common. In this photo, I had moved my icon of my patron saint (my avatar). The first three are the most important ones to have imho.

I do have a collection of laminated icons for the feast days, especially during Lent. I like to put those up the week near the feast days.

“Paisios” · Oct 31, 2017

christianforumsuser said:
In regards to "seeking understanding of others' beliefs"
As for religious tradition you can go on following formalities men boast of

Ah, that is clearer. Thank you.

“Paisios” · Oct 31, 2017

All4Christ said:
View attachment 211500

This is mine. It is a collection of icons from the past ten years It normally has a cross in the center, but I had it moved at the time (I sometimes move it to different places in the house if needed, especially for prosfora baking, etc.). I also received two icons as gifts on my chrismation, and one at our wedding.

Icons of Jesus, the Theotokos (typically holding Jesus), the cross and your patron saint are common. In this photo, I had moved my icon of my patron saint (my avatar). The first three are the most important ones to have imho.

I do have a collection of laminated icons for the feast days, especially during Lent. I like to put those up the week near the feast days.

Thank you for inviting me into your home. That is quite informative.

“Paisios” · Oct 31, 2017

ArmyMatt said:
icons also make the invisible cloud of witnesses visible, and prove the Church in heaven and the Church on earth are one Church. this also means that is Christ, there are no barriers, not even death. so when we go to Church, we stand invisibly present not only with each other, but also with Moses, Isaiah, Peter, Mary, etc.

Thank you, Father.

“Paisios” · Oct 31, 2017

FenderTL5 said:
Worship is for God alone.

Veneration in an illustration, the illustration may not be prefect nor complete but it helped me (note: my background is SBC/independent Baptist so warming up to the idea of icons along with the smells and bells took some time for me. It was the theology and history that initially drew me into Orthodoxy) .

A father was playing hide and seek with his children one evening. At one point he went outside and peered in through the large living room picture window. When the children finally saw him.. he could be heard saying, "come, kiss your father." So the children ran to the window and kissed where his face pressed against the glass.
So, did the children kiss their father or did they merely kiss a piece of glass?
The icons are 'windows into heaven' in much the same way. We may literally kiss the wood and paint but it is the person represented that is being venerated.

Veneration is honor and respect. Our priest indicated that when we come to church, particularly at the Divine Liturgy which opens with "Blessed is the Kingdom.." we are in the presence of both the church militant (on earth) and the church triumphant (in heaven). It is 'here' where heaven meets earth. We are in the presence of the saints. The custom of kissing the hand (which is typically where an icon is venerated) is the ancient way of showing respect to an elder. In the east, bowing to each other is also practiced. This is all part of veneration and in no way implies the person being venerated is being worshiped. We greet the saints through their icons in the narthex in the same ways we greet fellow parishioners entering the church along with us.

The icon/prayer corner in our house:
View attachment 211495

Christ and the theotokos, the patron saints of my wife and I.
In the frame, Palm Sunday (I was Chrismated on Lazarus Saturday, this is from the calendar that year). There's a few small ones tucked in here there that came through the IOCC mailings or were given at church, etc.
My daughter has her patron Saint in her prayer corner in her room along with a diptych of Christ and Theotokos.

Thank you also for inviting me into your home. That illustration was quite helpful, as well. So much to learn and process.

~Anastasia~ · Oct 31, 2017

I didn't see this thread until just now. Enjoyed reading some of the explanations and seeing your icon corners.

ArmyMatt said:
icons also make the invisible cloud of witnesses visible, and prove the Church in heaven and the Church on earth are one Church. this also means that is Christ, there are no barriers, not even death. so when we go to Church, we stand invisibly present not only with each other, but also with Moses, Isaiah, Peter, Mary, etc.

I'm glad you said that. I thought it was accurate and found myself explaining the icons in the Church to many visitors in that way, but it's good to hear you say so.

ArmyMatt · Nov 1, 2017

~Anastasia~ said:
I didn't see this thread until just now. Enjoyed reading some of the explanations and seeing your icon corners.

I'm glad you said that. I thought it was accurate and found myself explaining the icons in the Church to many visitors in that way, but it's good to hear you say so.

Fr Sergius' Spirituality class 101, when talking about the theology of icons and Church art

“Paisios” · Nov 20, 2017

FenderTL5 said:
The icon/prayer corner in our house:
View attachment 211495

Christ and the theotokos, the patron saints of my wife and I.
In the frame, Palm Sunday (I was Chrismated on Lazarus Saturday, this is from the calendar that year). There's a few small ones tucked in here there that came through the IOCC mailings or were given at church, etc.
My daughter has her patron Saint in her prayer corner in her room along with a diptych of Christ and Theotokos.

All4Christ said:
View attachment 211500Icons of Jesus, the Theotokos (typically holding Jesus), the cross and your patron saint are common. In this photo, I had moved my icon of my patron saint (my avatar). The first three are the most important ones to have imho.

Okay, so a spin off question that is only marginally related to the original...

I see that both of you have icons of your patron saint included in your homes. I am curious how the Orthodox acquire a patron saint? Is it a personal choice? Assigned by a priest or spiritual father? Assigned by virtue of being baptized/chrismated on the saint’s feast day? Or how?

Thank you again for your patience with my ignorance...

FenderTL5 · Nov 20, 2017

Shoetoyou said:
Okay, so a spin off question that is only marginally related to the original...

I see that both of you have icons of your patron saint included in your homes. I am curious how the Orthodox acquire a patron saint? Is it a personal choice? Assigned by a priest or spiritual father? Assigned by virtue of being baptized/chrismated on the saint’s feast day? Or how?

Thank you again for your patience with my ignorance...

If I understand your question completely, the answer is: yes.
(clarification: it could be any combination of those in consultation with your priest)

My patron saint is the same as my given name. There were multiple reasons; that there was a match was considered first. The relics of my patron saint were translated into the orthodox church on my birthday. Since I was charismated as an older adult (52) both my sponsor and priest thought it was appropriate.

Proper understanding, purpose and use of icons?

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