Is Christmas marketing sinful or wrong?

Markie Boy said:

I'm not sure where to post this. I am between Catholic and Orthodoxy a little, so I value thoughts from that perspective.

I own a small business, and had this wondering if it's wrong to use Christmas to promote sales for profit?

Any thoughts?

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This might not be helpful but I think it depends on the business and the advertising angle. Sometimes the promotion is legitimate in offering people something they can use. Sometimes it's just forced and obviously trying to "cash in". Often it falls somewhere in between.

something like this depends on the heart of the person doing it. obviously if the money from the sales is honest and is used to help others, spread the Gospel, etc. then do so by all means.

Markie Boy said:

I'm not sure where to post this. I am between Catholic and Orthodoxy a little, so I value thoughts from that perspective.

I own a small business, and had this wondering if it's wrong to use Christmas to promote sales for profit?

Any thoughts?

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I love Christmas decorations. It inspires me when I see them in stores. I think it is fine to use Christmas decorations to promote sales because Christmas is a very loved Holiday.

Markie Boy said:

My business is custom fishing rods. They vary from fair price to a little spendy. It's not really a need for anyone. I started the business before I was a Christian.

If I could start over I'd serve a need more, but it's hard to shift gears, and this is a relatively new thought in my faith walk.

I can put more focus on Keep Christ in Christmas with our advertising - it's been one thought.

Thank you all so far!

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Well when I said "need" I actually meant that might apply to needs people have surrounding the holiday - not essential needs only such as food, etc.

Like Matt said, it depends on the heart. To be honest, I have a husband who is really hard to buy for, but he loves to fish. I never would have thought of a custom rod (and sorry no money this year lol) ... but if I was trying to figure out a good gift for him, knowing about your business could fill a need.

Approaching it from the angle of how can what you do help folks during Christmas is generally a legitimate way to advertise around the season, I would think? Maybe I only see it that way because it would be a legitimate way to help me personally. That, and I can never think of my husband's love of fishing without remembering the Gospel prominently featured a few fishermen.

Markie Boy said:

I'm not sure where to post this. I am between Catholic and Orthodoxy a little, so I value thoughts from that perspective.

I own a small business, and had this wondering if it's wrong to use Christmas to promote sales for profit?

Any thoughts?

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I would say so. My opinions may differ slightly, but the holiday isn't mentioned in the bible, and is based on, and pays reverence in it's tradition, date, origin, and symbolism to the sun god. Basically, it's pagan, and isn't about God. Even the 25th, it's a birthday of a "god" but not our God. It's the birthdate of Nimrod, of Ba'al, he goes by many names, but regardless. No, I'd say it's probably not the best thing to market for cash. Even if it was the biblically acceptable holy days given by God, meh. Maybe, but it depends on how you do it.

Devin P said:

I would say so. My opinions may differ slightly, but the holiday isn't mentioned in the bible, and is based on, and pays reverence in it's tradition, date, origin, and symbolism to the sun god. Basically, it's pagan, and isn't about God. Even the 25th, it's a birthday of a "god" but not our God. It's the birthdate of Nimrod, of Ba'al, he goes by many names, but regardless. No, I'd say it's probably not the best thing to market for cash. Even if it was the biblically acceptable holy days given by God, meh. Maybe, but it depends on how you do it.

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actually the 25th being the day has nothing to with what you said and that does not even take into account the calendar shift. Christmas really has nothing to do with sun God anything.

ArmyMatt said:

actually the 25th being the day has nothing to with what you said and that does not even take into account the calendar shift. Christmas really has nothing to do with sun God anything.

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It's the birthdate of the sun god, literally all of the main sun gods ever worshipped all throughout the world, being traced back to the first man to ever have been deified - Nimrod.

Literally 95% of all "sun gods" all throughout history, have traced the birth of their god to between december 22nd-25th.

In fact, the holiday we know as christmas came directly from the feast of saturnalia. It was a pagan holiday that worshipped again, the sun god. Constantine and the RCC throughout the years wanted pagans to convert, and took a lot of their customs from this feast, and it's where we get almost literally everything from regarding christmas.

Everything from the 12 days of christmas (they celebrated saturnalia for 12 days)
the yule log (the sun god's ... "member")
the wreath (the sun goddesses ... "member")
the christmas tree again, the sun god's "member".
the mistle toe lore - pagan tradition
santa - pagan



The feast of saturnalia is where we get christmas from. They wanted pagans to come to jesus, so they took their holiday, and sprinkled some Jesus on it.
Don't believe me, I understand. But don't let how outlandish this sounds, let you not look into it. Prove me wrong, look into it.

I'd describe much of the goings on regarding the feast of saturnalia, but it's downright messed up, so I'd rather not. I'll say one thing though. We get a lot of what we do for christmas straight from it. It's just modernized, and less... violent? We'll go with that. It's like kid friendly versions of the messed up stuff they'd do.

No, it is based on the tradition that Saints died on the same day they were born or conceived. The day of the crucifixion was March 25 which is the Feast day of the Annunciation of Mary, when the Archangel Gabriel announced to Mary that she would conceive and give birth to a Son. This feast day had long been celebrated before Christmas was established so when the Church added the birth of Christ as a feast day, they placed it 9 months later. The feast days for the conceptions and births of Mary and John the Baptist are likewise 9 months apart

prodromos said:

No, it is based on the tradition that Saints died on the same day they were born or conceived. The day of the crucifixion was March 25 which is the Feast day of the Annunciation of Mary, when the Archangel Gabriel announced to Mary that she would conceive and give birth to a Son. This feast day had long been celebrated before Christmas was established so when the Church added the birth of Christ as a feast day, they placed it 9 months later. The feast days for the conceptions and births of Mary and John the Baptist are likewise 9 months apart

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Yeah, I'm sorry but I'm not in the mood for arguing really. If you look at the origin of christmas, that's literally where it came from. Catholicism prides itself on this, there's tons of documents attesting to this, there's direct quotes from historic figures that are responsible for this change, and it's why in the US in the beginning of the US it was illegal, because of the practices associated with saturnalia, e.g. christmas. It was such a violent, wicked and dangerous festival they outlawed it. Remember those things I said I wasn't going to describe? It's the reasons the US made christmas illegal when it first became a country.

These are things you can easily look up. Although, if no one I talk to on the matter wants to look anything up and just wants to voice their opinion, go for it. It's a waste of both of our times if no one is willing to look up new information that's new to them though.

One only needs to look up if christmas was illegal in the US. And when they find out it was, then they need to look up why. I'm not lying, look it up if you're so sure I'm wrong. What've you got to lose?

Devin P said:

One only needs to look up if christmas was illegal in the US. And when they find out it was, then they need to look up why. I'm not lying, look it up if you're so sure I'm wrong. What've you got to lose?

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The Orthodox Church celebrated Christmas long before there was a United States of America

Devin P said:

These are things you can easily look up. Although, if no one I talk to on the matter wants to look anything up and just wants to voice their opinion, go for it. It's a waste of both of our times if no one is willing to look up new information that's new to them though.

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None of it is new to me, most of it is bogus however. A lot of what passes for 'history' regarding Christmas and its supposed pagan connections is made up. It has been repeated enough times though, that people assume that it is true.

Devin P said:

It's the birthdate of the sun god, literally all of the main sun gods ever worshipped all throughout the world, being traced back to the first man to ever have been deified - Nimrod.

Literally 95% of all "sun gods" all throughout history, have traced the birth of their god to between december 22nd-25th.

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that very well may be when pagans celebrated their sun gods, but that has nothing to do with why Christmas is celebrated on the 25th. actually, if you look at Christian history, it was tied to the Annunciation and Pascha.

and Nimrod was never deified in the Orthodox tradition.

Devin P said:

In fact, the holiday we know as christmas came directly from the feast of saturnalia. It was a pagan holiday that worshipped again, the sun god. Constantine and the RCC throughout the years wanted pagans to convert, and took a lot of their customs from this feast, and it's where we get almost literally everything from regarding christmas.

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actually, this is untrue, and here I will explain why...

Devin P said:

Everything from the 12 days of christmas (they celebrated saturnalia for 12 days)

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and our 12 days has nothing to do with that, but is actually from Christmas to Theophany.

Devin P said:

the yule log (the sun god's ... "member")

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not the ancient Christian tradition.

Devin P said:

the wreath (the sun goddesses ... "member")

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not the ancient Christian tradition.

Devin P said:

the christmas tree again, the sun god's "member".

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or this.

Devin P said:

the mistle toe lore - pagan tradition

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or this.

Devin P said:

santa - pagan

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or this.

I don't understand your point, unless you are trying to prove how wrong our holiday is by pointing out stuff that did not originate with us and that we generally don't do and historically have not done.

Devin P said:

The feast of saturnalia is where we get christmas from. They wanted pagans to come to jesus, so they took their holiday, and sprinkled some Jesus on it.
Don't believe me, I understand. But don't let how outlandish this sounds, let you not look into it. Prove me wrong, look into it.

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I have looked into it, and you are wrong. you are not taking into account Pascha, the Annuncation, or the Calendar shift.

Devin P said:

I'd describe much of the goings on regarding the feast of saturnalia, but it's downright messed up, so I'd rather not. I'll say one thing though. We get a lot of what we do for christmas straight from it. It's just modernized, and less... violent? We'll go with that. It's like kid friendly versions of the messed up stuff they'd do.

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which might be what many do but not what we do. so far, all you have really done is shown how some have taken Christmas out of context, but nothing you have shown says anything about Orthodoxy.

On the whole Dec 25th thing, you might as well say that Americans mourn on Sept 11th because of the Muslim defeat at Vienna on Sept 11th more than 300 years ago. The fact of a coinciding day doesn't mean that the two events are therefore celebrated for the same reason.

If you looked into it and still don't see the pagan origins there's not much more I can say. Since the 4th century Christmas has been going on, and it's earliest celebrations were just as they celebrated Saturnalia, because the RCC wanted pagans to come in. Whether you look at this website down below or look into your own sources, look into unbiased sources. Literally the Catholic database even describes what I'm saying. Everything from the Sabbath being changed to Sunday, to Easter, the reasons they decided to adopt the pagan traditions are all found online and in their databases.

I am taking in to account the calendar shift, in fact because of the calendar shift the dates of Saturnalia went from the 17th through the 23rd of December prior to the shift, and after it became 19th - the 25th. The 25th was the climax of the festival.

You say you don't observe any of the pagan traditions? The gift giving itself is one of the main aspects of saturnalia. The Christmas tree is another aspect of paganism used in saturnalia as well as in other pagan festivities.

Jeremiah 10:2-5

2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

Devin P said:

If you looked into it and still don't see the pagan origins there's not much more I can say. Since the 4th century Christmas has been going on, and it's earliest celebrations were just as they celebrated Saturnalia, because the RCC wanted pagans to come in. Whether you look at this website down below or look into your own sources, look into unbiased sources. Literally the Catholic database even describes what I'm saying. Everything from the Sabbath being changed to Sunday, to Easter, the reasons they decided to adopt the pagan traditions are all found online and in their databases.

I am taking in to account the calendar shift, in fact because of the calendar shift the dates of Saturnalia went from the 17th through the 23rd of December prior to the shift, and after it became 19th - the 25th. The 25th was the climax of the festival.

You say you don't observe any of the pagan traditions? The gift giving itself is one of the main aspects of saturnalia. The Christmas tree is another aspect of paganism used in saturnalia as well as in other pagan festivities.

Jeremiah 10:2-5

2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Saturnalia: The Real Roots of Christmas

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good thing we aren't Roman Catholics. if you took into account the calendar shift, you would know the current day of 7 January was when the early Church celebrated Christmas, so there goes that which puts the Christian celebration more than 2 weeks after your dates.

the Christians celebrating on Sunday goes back to Ignatius of Antioch who died in 107 AD, Justin Martyr in 165 AD, etc. Easter goes back to the Quartodecimen controversy which was first recorded as a letter from Polycarp of Smyrna in the 100's AD, proving that many Christians used the method ratified by Constantine 200 years before the fact.

gift giving comes from the story itself, the Magi giving gifts and God giving His Son.

maybe if you actually read the accounts of the history, and not RC databases (especially because we are not RC) it'd help.

Markie Boy said:

Please open a different thread for debate of date correctness and origin - thank you.

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sorry about that. one of the more irritating things in here is when folks try to "educate" us, often using faulty history and stuff that has nothing to do with us.

I do hope I answered you earlier though.