Three questions about unbelievers

Neal of Zebulun

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1. Do any unbelievers love other people?

2. Do any unbelievers love with God's kind of love?

3. Do unbelievers have the Spirit of God in them?

John 3:
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (2)

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (2)

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (3)

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (1)

John 7:
7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

Thank Yahweh He sent His only begotten Son for those who Truly believe in Him and what He says!
 
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SBC

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@SBC

I think you misunderstood my post because you "disagreed" with things I wasn't actually saying.

I'll take another shot. I believe there are "levels" of connection to God. The weakest, or least relational, is His Spirit simply keeping us alive "In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind" (Job 12:10). These are those Who have His Spirit in them, but have not received the salvation-connection i.e. spirit to Spirit relationship. Second are those who are saved. These have a salvation-relational-connection spirit to Spirit. Third are those baptised in the Spirit. These are those who are completely immersed in His Spirit. Finally, there are those who are all of the above and continue to seek for even more God's Spirit. These can change the atmosphere and culture wherever they walk. People are invited into God's Presence without even saying a word.

Hopefully this clarifies. My point is, the unsaved person still has the Spirit of God in them.

I get what you are saying.
Have His Spirit, but are not Save, because they do not yet "connect" spirit to Spirit.

I disagree.
Have His Spirit - IS Saved ~ Period.

God is patient WHILE men GROW in wisdom, GROW in understanding according to God, GROW in a mans walk with God? Yes. Are saved WHILE they are growing? Yes.

I think your reference to saying "connection", may be is your way of saying, "growing".
I agree with that.

I do not agree, it is about their salvation.
They are SAVED.
A man who is NOT saved, can NOT Grow in Gods Wisdom, Gods Understanding, or spiritual walk in Gods Spirit.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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Most parents, unbelievers included, would lay down their life to protect their children. We are told in the Bible that there is no greater love than to lay down your life for another. So in some sense at least I think unbelievers do have agape love.
In some sense sure, just like in some sense even those without the Holy Ghost can experience peace, joy etc. but to have the continuous fullness of it requires the Holy Ghost is what I’m saying. People can have hints of agape love or joy or this or that but just hints or limited touches
 
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YouAreAwesome

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Have His Spirit, but are not Save, because they do not yet "connect" spirit to Spirit.

I disagree.
Have His Spirit - IS Saved ~ Period.

Ephesians 4:6 "one God and Father of all, who rules over all, acts through all, and dwells in all."

How does God speak to an unsaved person? He speaks to their mind by communicating with a persons spirit. How does He communicate with a persons spirit? By living inside them. Everyone has God talking to them, wooing them on the inside, always, consistently, loving them, desiring them, influencing them. Everyone. Not just "saved christians". How else can a person come to know God except through communication and experience with Him? The gospel is simply letting the person know that the Person they already know is God, and that God loves them and has completely forgiven them so they don't need to be ashamed but can approach Him in thankfulness and boldness; all of this because of Jesus. There is less difference between believers and non-believers than most christians acknowledge; all people can talk to God but not all people receive Him. All people have His Spirit but not all people receive His Spirit. By "have His Spirit" I mean He is inside of a person talking to them. But this doesn't mean the person listens to Him or invites Him in.

Revelation 3:20 "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me."

Perhaps it's semantics but I see Jesus standing at the door knocking as something that occurs inside of a person.
 
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SBC

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Ephesians 4:6 "one God and Father of all, who rules over all, acts through all, and dwells in all."

How does God speak to an unsaved person? He speaks to their mind by communicating with a persons spirit. How does He communicate with a persons spirit? By living inside them. Everyone has God talking to them, wooing them on the inside, always, consistently, loving them, desiring them, influencing them. Everyone. Not just "saved christians". How else can a person come to know God except through communication and experience with Him? The gospel is simply letting the person know that the Person they already know is God, and that God loves them and has completely forgiven them so they don't need to be ashamed but can approach Him in thankfulness and boldness; all of this because of Jesus. There is less difference between believers and non-believers than most christians acknowledge; all people can talk to God but not all people receive Him. All people have His Spirit but not all people receive His Spirit. By "have His Spirit" I mean He is inside of a person talking to them. But this doesn't mean the person listens to Him or invites Him in.

Revelation 3:20 "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me."

Perhaps it's semantics but I see Jesus standing at the door knocking as something that occurs inside of a person.
 
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SBC

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Ephesians 4:6 "one God and Father of all, who rules over all, acts through all, and dwells in all."

Eph 4:6 tells you who "all" is....in

Eph 4: 1
[1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:


How does God speak to an unsaved person? He speaks to their mind by communicating with a persons spirit. How does He communicate with a persons spirit? By living inside them. Everyone has God talking to them, wooing them on the inside, always, consistently, loving them, desiring them, influencing them. Everyone. Not just "saved christians". How else can a person come to know God except through communication and experience with Him? The gospel is simply letting the person know that the Person they already know is God, and that God loves them and has completely forgiven them so they don't need to be ashamed but can approach Him in thankfulness and boldness; all of this because of Jesus. There is less difference between believers and non-believers than most christians acknowledge; all people can talk to God but not all people receive Him. All people have His Spirit but not all people receive His Spirit. By "have His Spirit" I mean He is inside of a person talking to them. But this doesn't mean the person listens to Him or invites Him in.

Sort of.
All have a body, all have internal body parts, all whose body is brought into it's own life, IS brought into its own life, by Gods breath, that imparts a living soul into the body.

Thereafter, the body (that God forms), begins it's own life.
The body's own life, is it's blood.
The blood, belongs to the man, is the body's life.
The living soul, belongs to God, is life from God.
Every living body, with a living soul, is called by the identity of the one man, ie his name.

Every living body, thereafter, such body (alive or dead) and living soul (in or out of the body), is called by the mans name.

God has communicated with mankind, through a series of ways from the beginning;
Always;
Getting "closer" to men who believe.
Always;
With a "cover" that man could not see Him.

IF, you follow History in the Bible, you can find WHO God communicated with, and HOW.
God does not "directly communicate" with the "un-believing" (in God)
Gods "ministers" "communicate" with the un-believing and believing.
Gods "ministers" being - believing holy angels - and believing men - ie His servants.

Man became "corrupt". His body, His reproducing seed. Man's body, became subject to death, for his own body's corruption. Thus man's body is sentenced to death, and ALL body's die.

Whatever, is "in", man's body, by the whatever "being IN" the mans body, therefore, ALSO becomes corrupt.

A man, of course has organs, bones, nerves, etc. And those things, (may be afflicted, by the body's corruption, ie disease, etc.) and the body, SHALL die.
However, What is paramount; IN a man, IS:
The body's life, ie blood.
Gods living soul.
Thoughts in a man's MIND.(can be truthful or deceitful).
Thoughts in a man's Natural spirit, which ARE, in man's Heart, IS the Natural man's truth.

The body's blood, (it's life, is established, it shall die).
AND;
Every other part; Living soul, Mind, Natural spirit ~ CAN BE ~ reconciled to God...
OR NOT.

A man WHO, is still living (his blood functioning), ON this earth, (which IS man's estate)...gets to DECIDE and CHOOSE, "IF" he wants to; Be reconciled TO God.....
OR NOT.

God does not "directly communicate", with a man, WHO, does not believe in God.
ALL bodies, of men, who DO BELIEVE, who DO NOT BELIEVE, who ARE NOT reconciled, who ARE reconciled.... TO God; ARE DEAD TO GOD.

(and the WHY, is because, When God Speaks, IT IS SO. He doesn't "wait" for it to occur. It just simply IS.)

God has spoken;
Lev 17: [11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
Gen 9: [5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require;

Man's BODY; mind, heart CAN hear and learn ABOUT God, and choose to believe, OR NOT.

The Gift from God (for a man WHO chooses to believe).
Man, hears, reads, listens, observes others in belief - walks along "following".
As the man IS "following", "believing" -
God is GIVING the man "FAITH".
As the man "CONTINUES" following - God increases the mans "FAITH'

The "DEPARTURE" -
A man who (for his own reasoning); stops believing, stops following along...
God "stops", giving the man "FAITH".
The man is "thus", "fallen from FAITH', ie lost faith.

How many times, can a man follow along, then depart, then resume following, then depart, then resume, then depart.....gain and lose faith?
As many times; as the man living on this earth, chooses.

The "RECONCILIATION" -
A man WHO has been following along, gaining faith, AND THE MAN DECIDES, he is confidant and sure, without doubt, he believes;
He CAN; call on the Lords NAME; and declared TO the Lord, his "YES", that he believes.

THIS is a paramount decision the man makes.
The Lord is not fooled, by what the man declares.
The Lord does not go search the mans MIND, to see if the man is being deceptive.
The Lord searches the mans HEART, the mans natural truth, ie the mans natural spirit;
IF the mans natural spirit, IS declaring it's YES of belief in God, TO God -

WATCH -
The man immediately, asks for Gods Forgiveness - FOR;
... the mans SINS.
And what are the mans SINS?
1) his body, mind, natural spirit, not believing IN God.
2) his living soul, being corrupted, being in his corrupt, disbelieving body.
3) his complete, standing AGAINST God.
4) his trespassing AGAINST other men.

WOW - big list eh?
And then what happens?

THE FORGIVENESS "granted, given BY God"
WHY? FOR - Gods great NAME'S SAKE.
What does that mean?
1) Gods NAME'S, become exalted and GLORIFIED, when a man believes in Him.
2) When a man SUBMITS to God, "that man", becomes Gods "inheritance".
3) When a man SUBMITS to God, "that man", can NOW, be prepared, TO, serve God, by
the man, being a ministering disciple, ABOUT GOD, to "other men", that such "other men", may ALSO, choose to "submit to God".

The RECONCILIATION - initial preparation.
1) all effected BY Gods POWER.
2) the body, "dead to God", becomes, (crucified with Christ), ie dead in corruption; washed, cleansed, anointed, sanctified, and set aside, (kept with Christ), justified, to be called, purified, belonging to God ONLY, to be raised, (ie redeemed), claimed, by God ONLY, and waiting for the day of its resurrection; it waits ;
"on earth", still with its life (blood), or "in the earth", physically dead, void of its (blood) flowing. No matter, it waits for God to CLAIM, redeem it, AND...
change it into a glorified body.

2) the corrupt living soul in the body?
Restored, by Gods Power.
Restored to what? To it's pure life, it was when God blew it into the mans body.
Mans living soul, called SAVED.
SAVED from what?
a) ever having life departed FROM it.
b) ever being separated FROM God.
c) ever being destroyed.
SAVED to what?
a) eternal life with God.

3) the mans heart? (where the mans natural, spirit/ truth is) ?
God gives the man a NEW Heart, called circumcision of the Heart.

4) New Heart, ie = a pure Heart.
Pure Heart = NOT corrupt.
NOT corrupt = a place Gods Spirit can dwell.

5) New heart; Gods Spirit enters.

6) Gods Spirit - plants Gods Seed.

7) From Gods Seed - springs forth - a NEW spirit of man. (ie born again)

8) In mans NEW HEART - Gods Seed dwells, Gods Spirit dwells, Gods Word dwells. God gives the man FULL FAITH-FULLNESS, to the man forever.

9) The mans natural body, "dead to God", continues it's natural blood life, (forgiven AND dead to God), but the man is "spiritually" ALIVE to God, because: a man who is reconciled, to God, IS kept in Christ, thus it is Christ's PURE body, the living body of Christ, is the body, the man is IN.

10) Mans initial RECONCILIATION is complete.
The man is called;
Wholly WHOLE, body, soul, spirit.
Forever ALIVE with Christ.
Born of God.
son of God.

11) Initial "reconciliation" ?
Yes. Forever the man IS with God, and God with the man.

12) Then what?
The growing of the NEW "relationship" between the Man and the Lord.

13) The growing and the extent thereof; Is again, like a mans choice TO believe; the growing IS , the mans CHOICE, to grow in his relationship with the Lord.

14) The growing - IS NOT about;
growing Belief, growing Salvation, growing Faithfulness...those things are accomplished.

15) The growing IS about; a man choosing to KNOW GOD intimately -
Know His knowledge, Know His wisdom, Know His understanding, Know His Power....

16) When a man CHOOSES to know God intimately - the man seeks, asks, calls on God, looking, desiring....And God responds.

17) And? To where does God respond? TO the mans new spirit, in his new heart.

18) Wait. God doesn't respond to the mans MIND? Uh, that dead flesh carnal mind? no

19) God is Spirit and communicates with a mans NEW born of God spirit.

20) However we as men, still think with our minds, make decisions, logically conclude things, concerning every day matters.

21) However we as men, WHO DO, cultivate, seek, grow our relationship WITH our spirit to Gods Spirit; begin to LISTEN to the thoughts of our spirit, being taught by God, OVER the thoughts of our MIND.

22) THAT, is our job, not Gods. THAT is our job, to subject our mind TO our spirit, that is subject to God.

23) THAT, is HOW we become having a "mind LIKE Christ".

24) AND, what IF, a man DOES not, subject his minds thought, to his new spirit in his heart?

25) OBSERVE men. Watch and Hear, what men say and do.
Listen to what they say - see IF what they say IS "applicably in line with Scripture".
Not can they "quote" scripture.
But rather;
are they rendering Gods wisdom and understanding.
are they rendering Gods words, or their own, not in line with Gods word.
are they rendering the correct application OF Gods word properly.
are they flat out telling you, it is their minds thought.

26) THAT is HOW, a man knows another mans fruit.
Any mans "fruit", is that which a man "produces", reveals by his word and action.

27) IOW - productive or otherwise GOOD (ie spiritual) fruit, always originates from Gods Spirit in a man, to the mans spirit, forward out of the mans mouth or deeds. IF it comes, forward out of a mans MIND, it is not GOOD, (ie not spiritual) fruit.

28) It must always be through the spirit, to be GOOD.
Can it ever be "through" the mind? Only IF the thoughts, and words, First originate, with Gods Spirit, then the mans spirit, THEN forward to the man's mind.
But just through the mans MIND only? no.

29) WHAT if, a man, does not channel his thoughts; from Gods Spirit, to his spirit, to his mind? What IF, a man simply relies on his MIND, to speak, preach, teach, do things IN Gods Name of Spiritual things?

a) He is not saved or born again. Thus can ONLY use his mind, to reveal his own thoughts. He does NOT the will of the Father.

b) What if the man, DOES NOT, at all, teach or preach ABOUT God, but does believe, and HAS submitted to God? He is saved and born again. He does not cultivate a close relationship with God, BUT neither does He attempt to teach or preach ABOUT God, according to "His MINDS thoughts" (which is against God).
That man IS saved and born again, IN STANDING with God, WHICH IS, the will of the Father.

c) So, can a saved and born again man, OBSERVE, other men, know their fruits?
Yes and no. Yes, while able to observe. No, when at ANY time the man is physically alive, CAN turn to God, and become reconciled to God. And can also develop his relationship with God.....to which other men, may or may not know occurred.

There are many things in Scripture that apply to a man in general, or particular men.
And what applied ON ONE DAY, may be completely different ON a subsequent day.

Thus, ALL Scripture does not APPLY equally to ALL men.
For example:
IF a man Does not believe- Some Scriptures ABOUT "unbelieving" men applies to the man.
IF that man Comes into belief-Some Scriptures ABOUT "believing" men applies to the man.
IF that man Submits to God-Some Scriptures ABOUT 'submitted " men applies to the man; and the Scriptures ABOUT, unbelieving men NO LONGER applies to the man.

Thus - Scriptural "application" to a man, becomes important, that the correct applications is being applied.

We can know what "applies" to ourselfs. We can only know what "applies" to another man, by listening to "his own testimony" regarding himself.

Bottom line -
All men born of the dust of the earth, are born in sin, and sinful.
God has provided a WAY, for sinful men to become, forgiven, restored, saved, quickened, ie born again, relate to Him, know Him, be made whole, sin no more....
IF they will Believe and desire to submit to Him.
All is BY God and FOR God.
Those that seek Him shall find Him, and have forever life with Him.
Those that reject Him, so too, shall He reject, and they forever shall have no life in them, and forever be separated from Him.

Revelation 3:20 "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me."

Yep. He's HERE!!

Perhaps it's semantics but I see Jesus standing at the door knocking as something that occurs inside of a person.

Actually it is ding, ding, ding.......hey y'all who have been WAITING for prophecy to be fulfilled. The Messiah, the Lord, God to walk among you, SAVE you...
HELLO....pay attention.....Look.....Behold......Believe......it HAPPENED!
Prophecy and your waiting IS OVER.....was over 2,000+ years ago!!
Come to His Door, He is patiently waiting to meet and greet and welcome you IN, FOR to you be with Him and He be with you, FOREVER.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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1. Do any unbelievers love other people?

2. Do any unbelievers love with God's kind of love?

3. Do unbelievers have the Spirit of God in them?

1Jn.2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1. Jesus said they do, with kin and kind...... (not sure how that could be missed, if the word is retained in your heart? Or, did you know this answer already?)

2. Yes, the love of parents to their child, and so on. However, I do not think it is anywhere near as intense. But of the same substance. Remember, even Adam and Eve had the breath of God as their life. Just they were cut off early on from sanctuary in the glory of their father.

3. By correct definition of "unbeliever", no. But, can someone who has never seen the Gospel be a true believer? Yes. However, if they see the Gospels, without muddied waters of interpretations that miss the point, they will immediately see, believe, and understand.


Finally, the verse you bring out from John, what is your intention with using it in this context?

It is a hard to understand verse and is one of the few verses that has lost a lot of meaning over the past two thousand years.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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Eph 4:6 tells you who "all" is....in

Eph 4: 1
[1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:




Sort of.
All have a body, all have internal body parts, all whose body is brought into it's own life, IS brought into its own life, by Gods breath, that imparts a living soul into the body.

Thereafter, the body (that God forms), begins it's own life.
The body's own life, is it's blood.
The blood, belongs to the man, is the body's life.
The living soul, belongs to God, is life from God.
Every living body, with a living soul, is called by the identity of the one man, ie his name.

Every living body, thereafter, such body (alive or dead) and living soul (in or out of the body), is called by the mans name.

God has communicated with mankind, through a series of ways from the beginning;
Always;
Getting "closer" to men who believe.
Always;
With a "cover" that man could not see Him.

IF, you follow History in the Bible, you can find WHO God communicated with, and HOW.
God does not "directly communicate" with the "un-believing" (in God)
Gods "ministers" "communicate" with the un-believing and believing.
Gods "ministers" being - believing holy angels - and believing men - ie His servants.

Man became "corrupt". His body, His reproducing seed. Man's body, became subject to death, for his own body's corruption. Thus man's body is sentenced to death, and ALL body's die.

Whatever, is "in", man's body, by the whatever "being IN" the mans body, therefore, ALSO becomes corrupt.

A man, of course has organs, bones, nerves, etc. And those things, (may be afflicted, by the body's corruption, ie disease, etc.) and the body, SHALL die.
However, What is paramount; IN a man, IS:
The body's life, ie blood.
Gods living soul.
Thoughts in a man's MIND.(can be truthful or deceitful).
Thoughts in a man's Natural spirit, which ARE, in man's Heart, IS the Natural man's truth.

The body's blood, (it's life, is established, it shall die).
AND;
Every other part; Living soul, Mind, Natural spirit ~ CAN BE ~ reconciled to God...
OR NOT.

A man WHO, is still living (his blood functioning), ON this earth, (which IS man's estate)...gets to DECIDE and CHOOSE, "IF" he wants to; Be reconciled TO God.....
OR NOT.

God does not "directly communicate", with a man, WHO, does not believe in God.
ALL bodies, of men, who DO BELIEVE, who DO NOT BELIEVE, who ARE NOT reconciled, who ARE reconciled.... TO God; ARE DEAD TO GOD.

(and the WHY, is because, When God Speaks, IT IS SO. He doesn't "wait" for it to occur. It just simply IS.)

God has spoken;
Lev 17: [11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
Gen 9: [5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require;

Man's BODY; mind, heart CAN hear and learn ABOUT God, and choose to believe, OR NOT.

The Gift from God (for a man WHO chooses to believe).
Man, hears, reads, listens, observes others in belief - walks along "following".
As the man IS "following", "believing" -
God is GIVING the man "FAITH".
As the man "CONTINUES" following - God increases the mans "FAITH'

The "DEPARTURE" -
A man who (for his own reasoning); stops believing, stops following along...
God "stops", giving the man "FAITH".
The man is "thus", "fallen from FAITH', ie lost faith.

How many times, can a man follow along, then depart, then resume following, then depart, then resume, then depart.....gain and lose faith?
As many times; as the man living on this earth, chooses.

The "RECONCILIATION" -
A man WHO has been following along, gaining faith, AND THE MAN DECIDES, he is confidant and sure, without doubt, he believes;
He CAN; call on the Lords NAME; and declared TO the Lord, his "YES", that he believes.

THIS is a paramount decision the man makes.
The Lord is not fooled, by what the man declares.
The Lord does not go search the mans MIND, to see if the man is being deceptive.
The Lord searches the mans HEART, the mans natural truth, ie the mans natural spirit;
IF the mans natural spirit, IS declaring it's YES of belief in God, TO God -

WATCH -
The man immediately, asks for Gods Forgiveness - FOR;
... the mans SINS.
And what are the mans SINS?
1) his body, mind, natural spirit, not believing IN God.
2) his living soul, being corrupted, being in his corrupt, disbelieving body.
3) his complete, standing AGAINST God.
4) his trespassing AGAINST other men.

WOW - big list eh?
And then what happens?

THE FORGIVENESS "granted, given BY God"
WHY? FOR - Gods great NAME'S SAKE.
What does that mean?
1) Gods NAME'S, become exalted and GLORIFIED, when a man believes in Him.
2) When a man SUBMITS to God, "that man", becomes Gods "inheritance".
3) When a man SUBMITS to God, "that man", can NOW, be prepared, TO, serve God, by
the man, being a ministering disciple, ABOUT GOD, to "other men", that such "other men", may ALSO, choose to "submit to God".

The RECONCILIATION - initial preparation.
1) all effected BY Gods POWER.
2) the body, "dead to God", becomes, (crucified with Christ), ie dead in corruption; washed, cleansed, anointed, sanctified, and set aside, (kept with Christ), justified, to be called, purified, belonging to God ONLY, to be raised, (ie redeemed), claimed, by God ONLY, and waiting for the day of its resurrection; it waits ;
"on earth", still with its life (blood), or "in the earth", physically dead, void of its (blood) flowing. No matter, it waits for God to CLAIM, redeem it, AND...
change it into a glorified body.

2) the corrupt living soul in the body?
Restored, by Gods Power.
Restored to what? To it's pure life, it was when God blew it into the mans body.
Mans living soul, called SAVED.
SAVED from what?
a) ever having life departed FROM it.
b) ever being separated FROM God.
c) ever being destroyed.
SAVED to what?
a) eternal life with God.

3) the mans heart? (where the mans natural, spirit/ truth is) ?
God gives the man a NEW Heart, called circumcision of the Heart.

4) New Heart, ie = a pure Heart.
Pure Heart = NOT corrupt.
NOT corrupt = a place Gods Spirit can dwell.

5) New heart; Gods Spirit enters.

6) Gods Spirit - plants Gods Seed.

7) From Gods Seed - springs forth - a NEW spirit of man. (ie born again)

8) In mans NEW HEART - Gods Seed dwells, Gods Spirit dwells, Gods Word dwells. God gives the man FULL FAITH-FULLNESS, to the man forever.

9) The mans natural body, "dead to God", continues it's natural blood life, (forgiven AND dead to God), but the man is "spiritually" ALIVE to God, because: a man who is reconciled, to God, IS kept in Christ, thus it is Christ's PURE body, the living body of Christ, is the body, the man is IN.

10) Mans initial RECONCILIATION is complete.
The man is called;
Wholly WHOLE, body, soul, spirit.
Forever ALIVE with Christ.
Born of God.
son of God.

11) Initial "reconciliation" ?
Yes. Forever the man IS with God, and God with the man.

12) Then what?
The growing of the NEW "relationship" between the Man and the Lord.

13) The growing and the extent thereof; Is again, like a mans choice TO believe; the growing IS , the mans CHOICE, to grow in his relationship with the Lord.

14) The growing - IS NOT about;
growing Belief, growing Salvation, growing Faithfulness...those things are accomplished.

15) The growing IS about; a man choosing to KNOW GOD intimately -
Know His knowledge, Know His wisdom, Know His understanding, Know His Power....

16) When a man CHOOSES to know God intimately - the man seeks, asks, calls on God, looking, desiring....And God responds.

17) And? To where does God respond? TO the mans new spirit, in his new heart.

18) Wait. God doesn't respond to the mans MIND? Uh, that dead flesh carnal mind? no

19) God is Spirit and communicates with a mans NEW born of God spirit.

20) However we as men, still think with our minds, make decisions, logically conclude things, concerning every day matters.

21) However we as men, WHO DO, cultivate, seek, grow our relationship WITH our spirit to Gods Spirit; begin to LISTEN to the thoughts of our spirit, being taught by God, OVER the thoughts of our MIND.

22) THAT, is our job, not Gods. THAT is our job, to subject our mind TO our spirit, that is subject to God.

23) THAT, is HOW we become having a "mind LIKE Christ".

24) AND, what IF, a man DOES not, subject his minds thought, to his new spirit in his heart?

25) OBSERVE men. Watch and Hear, what men say and do.
Listen to what they say - see IF what they say IS "applicably in line with Scripture".
Not can they "quote" scripture.
But rather;
are they rendering Gods wisdom and understanding.
are they rendering Gods words, or their own, not in line with Gods word.
are they rendering the correct application OF Gods word properly.
are they flat out telling you, it is their minds thought.

26) THAT is HOW, a man knows another mans fruit.
Any mans "fruit", is that which a man "produces", reveals by his word and action.

27) IOW - productive or otherwise GOOD (ie spiritual) fruit, always originates from Gods Spirit in a man, to the mans spirit, forward out of the mans mouth or deeds. IF it comes, forward out of a mans MIND, it is not GOOD, (ie not spiritual) fruit.

28) It must always be through the spirit, to be GOOD.
Can it ever be "through" the mind? Only IF the thoughts, and words, First originate, with Gods Spirit, then the mans spirit, THEN forward to the man's mind.
But just through the mans MIND only? no.

29) WHAT if, a man, does not channel his thoughts; from Gods Spirit, to his spirit, to his mind? What IF, a man simply relies on his MIND, to speak, preach, teach, do things IN Gods Name of Spiritual things?

a) He is not saved or born again. Thus can ONLY use his mind, to reveal his own thoughts. He does NOT the will of the Father.

b) What if the man, DOES NOT, at all, teach or preach ABOUT God, but does believe, and HAS submitted to God? He is saved and born again. He does not cultivate a close relationship with God, BUT neither does He attempt to teach or preach ABOUT God, according to "His MINDS thoughts" (which is against God).
That man IS saved and born again, IN STANDING with God, WHICH IS, the will of the Father.

c) So, can a saved and born again man, OBSERVE, other men, know their fruits?
Yes and no. Yes, while able to observe. No, when at ANY time the man is physically alive, CAN turn to God, and become reconciled to God. And can also develop his relationship with God.....to which other men, may or may not know occurred.

There are many things in Scripture that apply to a man in general, or particular men.
And what applied ON ONE DAY, may be completely different ON a subsequent day.

Thus, ALL Scripture does not APPLY equally to ALL men.
For example:
IF a man Does not believe- Some Scriptures ABOUT "unbelieving" men applies to the man.
IF that man Comes into belief-Some Scriptures ABOUT "believing" men applies to the man.
IF that man Submits to God-Some Scriptures ABOUT 'submitted " men applies to the man; and the Scriptures ABOUT, unbelieving men NO LONGER applies to the man.

Thus - Scriptural "application" to a man, becomes important, that the correct applications is being applied.

We can know what "applies" to ourselfs. We can only know what "applies" to another man, by listening to "his own testimony" regarding himself.

Bottom line -
All men born of the dust of the earth, are born in sin, and sinful.
God has provided a WAY, for sinful men to become, forgiven, restored, saved, quickened, ie born again, relate to Him, know Him, be made whole, sin no more....
IF they will Believe and desire to submit to Him.
All is BY God and FOR God.
Those that seek Him shall find Him, and have forever life with Him.
Those that reject Him, so too, shall He reject, and they forever shall have no life in them, and forever be separated from Him.



Yep. He's HERE!!



Actually it is ding, ding, ding.......hey y'all who have been WAITING for prophecy to be fulfilled. The Messiah, the Lord, God to walk among you, SAVE you...
HELLO....pay attention.....Look.....Behold......Believe......it HAPPENED!
Prophecy and your waiting IS OVER.....was over 2,000+ years ago!!
Come to His Door, He is patiently waiting to meet and greet and welcome you IN, FOR to you be with Him and He be with you, FOREVER.

God Bless,
SBC
Ephesians 4:6
1. God is Father of all. Would you say He is only Father of "christians"?
2. God is above all. Would you say He is only above "christians"?
3. God acts through all. Does He only act through "christians"? What about when He uses Nebuchadnezzar? Ezekiel 21:10 tells us God used him. How? Well we know God gave him dreams (Daniel 2). Yes, God gave a heathen king prophetic dreams. I think this completely undoes your point here below:

God does not "directly communicate" with the "un-believing" (in God)

4. God dwells in all. According to 1, 2 and 3 we can answer yes, He dwells in all, believers and non-believers. He dwells in the believers spirit. He communicates from the outside (but still within a person) of an unbeliever. Unbelievers can pray to God. Unbelievers can listen to God. Unbelievers can get to know God before accepting Him as Lord. Jesus knocks on the door of an unbelievers heart. Does He do this from outside of the person completely? No the heart is within a person and Jesus is there, within them, knocking.
 
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SBC

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Ephesians 4:6
1. God is Father of all. Would you say He is only Father of "christians"?
2. God is above all. Would you say He is only above "christians"?
3. God acts through all. Does He only act through "christians"? What about when He uses Nebuchadnezzar? Ezekiel 21:10 tells us God used him. How? Well we know God gave him dreams (Daniel 2). Yes, God gave a heathen king prophetic dreams. I think this completely undoes your point here below:



4. God dwells in all. According to 1, 2 and 3 we can answer yes, He dwells in all, believers and non-believers. He dwells in the believers spirit. He communicates from the outside (but still within a person) of an unbeliever. Unbelievers can pray to God. Unbelievers can listen to God. Unbelievers can get to know God before accepting Him as Lord. Jesus knocks on the door of an unbelievers heart. Does He do this from outside of the person completely? No the heart is within a person and Jesus is there, within them, knocking.

ALL men that have lived ~
1) have been brought into living via a living soul, given them from God.
2) have had their own life, ie blood

ALL men SHALL lose their life, ie blood, to death.
Some men WILL give their life, spiritually, to death, with Christ.
Such men WILL receive, spiritually, their spirit, born of God.

Of ALL the men WHO, die with Christ, are spirit born of God, they, have received the Spirit of God, within them.

This does not apply to ALL men.

No, God's Spirit does not dwell in ALL.
No, God does not communicate within an unbeliever.
God hardens the heart of an unbeliever.
God changes the heart of a believer.

No, unbelievers / believers do not KNOW God, before conversion.
Men learn, hear, ABOUT, God, and choose to believe or not, by trusting to believe,
....or not, what they learn ABOUT God.

No, God is not our ONLY Father.
God is our ONLY Heavenly Father.
Abraham is our Earthly Father.

All things, (good and evil), work together to accomplish Gods Will.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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Ephesians 4:6 "one God and Father of all, who rules over all, acts through all, and dwells in all."

Eph 4
[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

God is Father of all.....whether or not....ALL men believe it.
God is above all.........whether or not ...ALL men believe it.
God is through all.......whether or not ...ALL men believe it.

Paul was speaking TO;

Eph 1
[1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Gods Spirit IN ALL OF WHO; the saints, the faithful in Christ Jesus.

Eph 4
[4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
[5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

The ones who WERE, but ARE no more....

Eph 2
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

You are trying to make Gods Spirit in ALL, without context of who ALL are.

There IS a division.
All whom are saved; and All whom are not saved.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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YouAreAwesome

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ALL men that have lived ~
1) have been brought into living via a living soul, given them from God.
2) have had their own life, ie blood

ALL men SHALL lose their life, ie blood, to death.
Some men WILL give their life, spiritually, to death, with Christ.
Such men WILL receive, spiritually, their spirit, born of God.

Of ALL the men WHO, die with Christ, are spirit born of God, they, have received the Spirit of God, within them.

This does not apply to ALL men.

No, God's Spirit does not dwell in ALL.
No, God does not communicate within an unbeliever.
God hardens the heart of an unbeliever.
God changes the heart of a believer.

No, unbelievers / believers do not KNOW God, before conversion.
Men learn, hear, ABOUT, God, and choose to believe or not, by trusting to believe,
....or not, what they learn ABOUT God.

No, God is not our ONLY Father.
God is our ONLY Heavenly Father.
Abraham is our Earthly Father.

All things, (good and evil), work together to accomplish Gods Will.

God Bless,
SBC
Ok, you haven't responded to any of the reasons I believe what I believe. Plus you are still arguing against points that I am not making. In fact many of the arguments you make have little to do with the discussion at all (e.g. your concluding sentence). So I might leave it there, I don't see any progress made over the last few posts. Peace.
 
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SBC

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Maybe I spoke too soon... so you do believe God is through all?

Yes.
If a man is living, has lived, (his life, ie blood), it is because Life from God, (ie, living soul) is/was in the man.

Do I believe, that God giving a man a living soul, to quicken a mans body;
is the same as Gods Spirit quickening a mans spirit?
No.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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YouAreAwesome

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Yes.
If a man is living, has lived, (his life, ie blood), it is because Life from God, (ie, living soul) is/was in the man.

Do I believe, that God giving a man a living soul, to quicken a mans body;
is the same as Gods Spirit quickening a mans spirit?
No.

God Bless,
SBC
Right, so we agree God is through all. A consequence of this is how God is through all people, agree? This is the first of my previous points. That God is in everyone (not in a saving way, but He is still there). It follows that He can communicate with anyone who is willing to listen, saved or not as I showed with Nebuchadnezzar as one biblical example.
 
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SBC

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Ephesians 4:6
1. God is Father of all. Would you say He is only Father of "christians"? No.
2. God is above all. Would you say He is only above "christians"? No.
3. God acts through all. Does He only act through "christians"? No.
What about when He uses Nebuchadnezzar? Ezekiel 21:10 tells us God used him. How?

Ezek 21:[10] It is sharpened to make a sore slaughter; it is furbished that it may glitter: should we then make mirth? it contemneth the rod of my son, as every tree.

Well we know God gave him dreams (Daniel 2). Yes, God gave a heathen king prophetic dreams.

I think this completely undoes your point here below: I disagree.

4. God dwells in all. I do not believe Gods Spirit dwells in all.

According to 1, 2 and 3 we can answer yes, He dwells in all, believers and non-believers. He dwells in the believers spirit. He communicates from the outside (but still within a person) of an unbeliever. Unbelievers can pray to God.

I don't believe, the unbelieving pray to something they don't believe.

Unbelievers can listen to God.

I believe men can acknowledge A god exists, without believing in Him.
I do not believe men who do not believe IN God, "hear" God.


Unbelievers can get to know God before accepting Him as Lord. Disagree

Jesus knocks on the door of an unbelievers heart.

Jesus IS the door. Men do the knocking.

Does He do this from outside of the person completely? No the heart is within a person and Jesus is there, within them, knocking.

Disagree. Men knock, Jesus answers, Jesus invites, Men enter, then Does Jesus enter Mans heart.

God bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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Right, so we agree God is through all.

A consequence of this is how God is through all people, agree?

I reveled my understanding of through all, via, a man receiving a living soul from God.

This is the first of my previous points. That God is in everyone (not in a saving way, but He is still there). It follows that He can communicate with anyone who is willing to listen, saved or not as I showed with Nebuchadnezzar as one biblical example.

You revealed your understanding that God GAVE Nebuchadezzar a dream, you call God communicating with the unsaved, called Nebuchadezzar.

You did not reveal ANY Scripture that says God GAVE Nebuchadezzar THAT DREAM.

Since you are basing your position on God giving that Dream to Nebuchadezzar, Can you provide a Scripture that says God Gave Nebuchadezzar THAT dream?

God Bless,
SBC
 
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YouAreAwesome

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God bless,
SBC

Please clarify because it seems you believe a contradiction:
1. God is through all
2. God does not dwell in all

You say an unbeliever can't pray to God because they don't believe. Do you classify Satan as an unbeliever? Can Satan hear when God talks to him? Can Satan converse with God?

How is it that men do the knocking on Jesus' door? Where in the bible do you get that from?
 
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YouAreAwesome

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Since you are basing your position on God giving that Dream to Nebuchadezzar, Can you provide a Scripture that says God Gave Nebuchadezzar THAT dream?

I am not basing my position on the dream given to Nebuchadnezzar I am using it as an example of how God speaks to unbelievers. Daniel 2:28 tells us:

But there is a God in heaven who reveals secrets, and he has shown King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in the future. Now I will tell you your dream and the visions you saw as you lay on your bed.​

Furthermore, do you believe both believers and unbelievers are tempted by Satan? Why would it be any different with God?
 
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SBC

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Please clarify because it seems you believe a contradiction:
1. God is through all
2. God does not dwell in all

Already did. You said my posts were not addressing your comments.

Mans life (blood) is brought into living, via Gods Life, in a living soul, imparted INTO a mans body. That living soul, with Gods LIFE in it, is called BOTH, mans soul and belonging to God.

THAT is my understanding of God being through all, Gods MADE souls, with LIFE from God, IN the soul, and the living soul, IN a man.

God DWELLING "IN" a man, is specific to Gods Spirit, being IN a MAN.

Gods Spirit "IN" a man, is specifically IN, a NEW HEART, God has given the MAN.

You are attempting to claim, Gods Spirit is IN every man. It isn't. Nor has God given every man a NEW HEART.


You say an unbeliever can't pray to God because they don't believe.

Do you equal human men to angels? That what applies to angels ALSO applies to men?
I don't.

I do not challenge that angels DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. I believe they do. And some angels DEFIED God, and thus will suffer the consequences for their defiance.


Do you classify Satan as an unbeliever?

No. I classify Satan as UN-faithful.

Can Satan hear when God talks to him? Can Satan converse with God?

I believe Gods direct communication with Satan has ceased, because of Satan's un-faithfulness.

Can Satan converse with God?

Directly? No.

How is it that men do the knocking on Jesus' door?

1 Cor 1

[2] ... call upon the name of Jesus Christ ...



Where in the bible do you get that from?

John 10:
  1. [7] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
  2. [9] I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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I am not basing my position on the dream given to Nebuchadnezzar I am using it as an example of how God speaks to unbelievers. Daniel 2:28 tells us:

But there is a God in heaven who reveals secrets, and he has shown King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in the future. Now I will tell you your dream and the visions you saw as you lay on your bed.

The king had a dream. Where does the king believe it was communication from God?

Where does Scripture say God was communicating with the king?

The king had a dream. He didn't know what it meant. Daniel told the king what it meant. The king believed Daniel.


Telling me what transpired between the king and Daniel, is not news.

Give me the scripture that says God communicated with the king, BY GIVING the king a dream. That is your point, but you give no scripture that reveals your point.

Furthermore, do you believe both believers and unbelievers are tempted by Satan?

Believers, unbelievers tempted by Satan ? Sure.
Born again believers tempted by Satan ? No.


Why would it be any different with God?

Why would WHAT be any different? Tempting? Are you trying to say, God is a tempter?
EXPOUND.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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