Basic exegesis: The golden rule of hermeneutics states "“When the plain sense of scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at it’s primary, ordinary, usual meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”
Exactly.
That's why I did all of those things and I'm calling for you to do the same.
So the germane question is can a genuine believer - one who is elect - still be disobedient and not keep God's word (and become lost as Judas was)? If the answer is in the affirmative then it is reasonable to conclude that Judas was a believer but was lost because he did not keep God's word - and not that he was not elect to begin with.
The question and statement exactly as you posted it above doesn't make sense. But I think I get the drift of what you were trying to ask and say.
Assuming I have your intent right - the answer is not affirmative but negative as Jesus clearly told us.
Is obedience required of the elect? According to Heb 5:9 it is. Given that, will all true believers obey or do they have a choice whether to obey or not, with some choosing not to obey?
Of course they are required to obey. Of course they have a choice whether to obey or not. There will be, of course, consequences for not obeying. Going to Hell is not one of them.
This is rather basic stuff for any Christian who can read the scriptures.
They do not lose their salvation whenever they sin. That's not only
not basic stuff it counters what Jesus clearly told us concerning us not coming again into condemnation once we pass from death to life and many other related teachings found in the scriptures.
I understand that you have a personal zeal for some reason to show that believer's salvation is tenuous at best. But your zeal for your personal agenda sometimes causes you to say and teach some really ridiculous theology along the way.
Even among those who don't believe in the eternal security of the believer for various reasons - very few if any would try to make the argument that Judas Iscariot was saved.
In fact no theologian would say that any O.T. character was saved before the finished work of Jesus Christ at Calvary.
No disciple was saved and received the Holy Spirit before Christ ascended to the Father. The justification before God and the sealing of the Holy Spirit could not and did not happen until the work of Christ was done.
Salvation was and always will be dependent on faith which causes the work of Christ to be credited to a person's status before God.
Jesus chose and called His disciples for various reasons. Most of those disciples appear to have been among the elect of God who were given by the Father to the Son for eternal keeping and thus drawn to the Son and convicted internally unto saving faith. Most of His disciples, with one obvious exception, appear to have believed on Him unto salvation eventually.
Your poor theology, which tells us that people who followed God in the O.T. before the finished work of Christ, were sealed by the Holy Spirit is way off the mark.
That includes your opinion concerning any of the disciples who followed Jesus in His earthly ministry and it most certainly includes Judas Iscariot.
You have attempted to use Judas as an example of someone who was saved and then later lost at other times and in other threads. It has been refuted whenever you have tried to use that particular argument to show that our salvation is tenuous. It has been and is being refuted on this thread as well.
IMO, you really should go on to other arguments against the eternal security of the believer. Although I disagree with them as well - they are much stronger arguments. This particular one doesn't work for you either with believers in eternal security or even those who don't so believe.
There is no way that Judas Iscariot was "saved". Everyone from the Pope to Billy Graham seems to understand that fact with the exception of you.
