Does God love everyone or just his sheep?

Neogaia777 said:

God is Love... Love your enemies, like God does... Pray for them, feed them, give them a drink, ect... Do good to them... Like God does...

But they hate his goodness, especially towards them, being jealous over us... They don't like or hate God's goodness, and reject it due to some personal problems or issues involving us...

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I agree. Well said.

mmbattlestar said:

You mean Nephalim actually exist? I thought they were just made up for Diablo.

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The nephilim are an enigmatic group which Scripture doesn't go into any sort of detail on; Genesis 6 offers us an enigmatic statement about the sons of God and daughters of men coming together and then the nephilim from them calling them "mighty men of old, men of renown". The inhabitants of the Canaan are described as descendents of Anak and that the Anakim are descended from the nephilim. Another connection is made with Goliath of Gath. The connection with nephilim with the tall Anakim and Goliath is likely what led the translators of the Septuagint to translate "nephilim" as "gigantes", that is, "giants".

There's been a lot of imaginative spin on the nephilim, including in popular culture where in works of fantasy fiction nephilim are often a race of monstrous and/or gigantic creatures. But there's nothing to suggest the biblical nephilim were anything particularly extraordinary. Some think that "sons of God" in Genesis 6 refers to angels, and thus the nephlim were the result of angels having sex with human women (daughters of men), an interpretation that is taken up in some ancient works, such as the Book of Enoch, but which never received widespread acceptance in either Jewish or Christian theological circles; where the more common interpretation is that both "sons of God" and "daughters of men" refer to ordinary human beings, possibly the lineage of Seth (sons of God) and the lineage of Cain (daughters of men). The word nephilim comes from the Hebrew root verb naphal, meaning "to fall", thus nephilim most likely means "fallen ones", which could excite the imagination in many ways, but most likely doesn't mean anything more than that they were completely ordinary human beings.

-CryptoLutheran

AnticipateHisComing said:

But what does *world* mean? So many base their belief on only half a sentence. Are cows part of the world? How about trees? And rocks? Read the second part of the same sentence to see who God loves and sent his Son to die for. That would be those that believe.

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

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Jesus died for the sins of the "world" meaning "the majority of all of mankind." It is obvious that Christ did not die for animals and or trees and such things because Scripture mentions nothing about the redemption of animals and trees, etc.. God died for all of humanity (except those who would worship the beast in the future because their names were not in the Lamb's book of life since the foundation of the world: - See Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8). This way salvation is for most all people openly. Most all people will be without excuse that their salvation was not available for them. 1 John 2:2 makes it clear it is the majority of the world because it uses the words "whole world" in relation to believers. You can seek to change these words because you may not like them, but that would not be wise. For Revelation warns against altering God's Word (Revelation 22:18-19). For the English and the Greek should not conflict with each other. For the English was translated from the Greek.

In addition, I would say that there are degrees of love, as well. Obviously God loves His people more than He would an unbeliever. But God still cares and loves even unbelievers. For Scripture says He sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous (Matthew 5:45). Jesus showed love for even those who were crucifying Him by telling God the Father, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." (Luke 23:34). Stephen also said to God, to those who were stoning him, "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge." (Acts of the Apostles 7:60).

Now, I would say that God is angry and repulsed by sin or sinful beings but that He ultimately loves them in a metaphysical way and not in a moral way. This would even include the devil and his minions. How so? Well, God used the devil as a part of His sacrifice to save mankind. Why would God have anything to do with the devil? Why include the devil at all if God hates Him so much? Do you think our God is into simply toying with His creation for His own amusement? Surely not. God ultimately cares and loves all of His creation in a metaphysical way, but that does not mean he may love them all in a moral way because not all of his creation is behaving in a way that is moral or good (Like He is). We know that God can use evil and sin for a greater plan for good. We see this with Joseph's brothers in the story of Joseph and with Jesus and His sacrifice for all of mankind. Something bad (the devil and sinfull men) played a part in the Christ's sacrifice so as to offer man the free gift of salvation openly to all of mankind. God uses all things in His creation for His glory. He does this because He ultimately loves His creation and He does not hate it. Granted, God may not love everyone in His creation the same way; And God knows just what we each of us needs so as to be drawn closer to Him in love. For with Enoch, God simply took Him home without him seeing death. Yet, with Job, God allowed a righteous man to suffer greatly. But this was to draw Job closer to God. So the love of God shown in this universe is catered to the individual.

Scripture says,.... God is love.

Scripture does not say.... God is hate.

Yes, the devil, his minions, and the wicked will be destroyed or erased from existence after they are punished for a set amount of time for their crimes or sins (i.e. fair justice), but God does not hate them in a metaphysical way. God is not going to punish the devil and the wicked beyond what justice calls for. God is fair, just, and good even to evil beings or his enemies. For God says we are to do good towards our enemies. Granted, we are told to resist the devil and submit to God. That is how we conquer the devil and even the wicked people of this world. We do this with love. God (Jesus) conquered Satan with love at the cross, as well. He is showing Satan, his minions, and all wicked men that love is what wins (and not hate).

For are we to assume that God gives into hate in the same like the emperor from Star Wars?


Surely not.

For God is love.

mmbattlestar said:

Oh that's really cool! I didn't know! Yeah it would be obvious that Tyrael is a work of fiction as is most of Diablo. I cannot think of another example but, yeah everyone in Diablo is a work of fiction. But, that's really cool that Nephilim actually exist. What exactly are they? I clicked on the link you provided and read a few of the verses But none of them really describe exactly what a Nephilim is.

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ViaCrucis has a good description in a post that you have probably just read before this one.

I do think it's pretty neat to see how Diablo treats some of the themes from the bible and makes up a whole new world based on them, even if they barely resemble the original.

BetzaidaK said:

Hello,
"you" is referring to mankind and the promise has to do with "a new heaven" and "a new earth" mentioned in Isaiah 65:17 and Isaiah 66:22 and quoted by the apostle Peter at 2 Peter 3:13.
If you want I can explain to you what these terms mean if interested. I have ran out of time. I hope you have a good day.

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Good Day, Betzaida

Thanks, Just a quick follow up "You" is a pronoun refers to a noun that represents "mankind"

In which verse does that noun exist and what grammar links (that noun) it to the pronoun "you" in verse 9. Can you map that out it its whole context of the chapter.

Thanks,

Bill

mmbattlestar said:

Does God love everyone or is his love only select to his sheep?

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God loves everyone. God is love. Love doesn't show favoritism.

Strong in Him said:

I don't have to reconcile it, because it's not a problem for me, and because I don't need to prove anything.
If you believe that God's love is conditional only on us obeying his commands, YOU have to reconcile that with verses that say otherwise.

I see it as being like a circle of love.
John said in his letter that God is love, 1 John 4:8, and that we love because he first loved us, 1 John 4:19.
God showed his love to us by sending his Son to die for us - when we were godless sinners and had done nothing to deserve such mercy and love.
Because he loved us, we can love him because we are reconciled to him.
Because we are reconciled to God, we walk in the light by obeying him.
Because we are walking in the light by obeying him, God can continue to pour his love into, and through, us. Sin separates us from receiving God's love.
We can love God and show his love to those around us, because he is showing his love to us.

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Unfortunately, all Scripture must be reconciled in order to form one's doctrine. Since you prefer to ignore this basic rule, that's certainly your choice.

Oldmantook said:

Unfortunately, all Scripture must be reconciled in order to form one's doctrine. Since you prefer to ignore this basic rule, that's certainly your choice.

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Why don't you reconcile it then?

You posted a verse which you say proves that God's love is conditional; I have posted several to show that it's not.
How do you reconcile the verse I posted with the one that you posted?

Strong in Him said:

Why don't you reconcile it then?

You posted a verse which you say proves that God's love is conditional; I have posted several to show that it's not.
How do you reconcile the verse I posted with the one that you posted?

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In case you were unaware, what you resort to is known as proof-texting. Anyone can cite/proof-text a verse claiming that it supports what they believe. What I specifically asked you to do is to explain why Jn 14:21 doesn't contradict what you believe. You would then have to exegete Jn 14:21 itself to show that it means something other than what I claim it means. Instead what you did was cite other verses claiming that it contradicts Jn 14:21. Instead you first must explain what you think Jn 14:21 means as opposed to what I think it means. Once you deal with my verse, I will extend you the same courtesy and deal with your verses.

Oldmantook said:

In case you were unaware, what you resort to is known as proof-texting. Anyone can cite/proof-text a verse claiming that it supports what they believe.

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Which, with respect, is what you did.
You quoted the OP, and said;

Oldmantook said:

Jesus said: "The one having My commandments and keeping them, he is the one loving Me. Now the one loving Me will be loved by My Father. And I will love him, and will show Myself to him" (Jn 14:21). BLB
This verse states that our love for God is manifested by our obedience to Him. God's love for us is conditioned upon our obedience.

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The position you were putting forward is that "God's love for us is conditioned upon our obedience." The verse you gave in support of that was John 14:21 - ONE verse.

In response, I said that Christ died for sinners - he gave his life for those who were without God and didn't know him. He didn't wait for us to start loving and obeying him first.
True, I admit that I didn't give Scripture references to support that, but there are a lot of them.
Romans 5:6-8 says that it is unlikely that anyone would give their life for a good person, but Christ demonstrated his love by dying for us when we were sinners.
Romans 3:23 says that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Matthew 26:28 says that Jesus shed his blood for the forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16 says that Jesus died for the world.
John 6:40 says that God's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and receives him, shall have eternal life.
John 3:36 and 1 John 5:12 say that whoever has the Son of God, has life; whoever doesn't, doesn't.
Ephesians 2:1-3 says that we used to be dead in our sins - as was everyone who followed the ways of the world.
Colossians 1:19-20 says that God was pleased to reconcile all things to himself by making peace through the blood of Christ.
2 Peter 3:9 says that God does not want anyone to perish but all to come to repentance.

The teaching of these, and indeed of the Bible, is that mankind sinned; God saved us.
He gave the Israelites animal sacrifices by which they could atone for their sins, and then sent Jesus who died, once for all, for the sin of the world and gave us the opportunity to be reconciled to God.
The whole Gospel is; you are sinners, far from God and, if you continue in your sin you will be separated from him when you die - ie hell. But God doesn't want that and sent his Son. If you receive him and repent, you will have eternal life. Jesus is the only way to God, John 14:6, and the only one who can save us, Acts 4:12.

Nowhere does the Bible say, "believe in God, do good deeds and if you continue to do that, THEN God will love you.
I also pointed out that;

Strong in Him said:

God doesn't say, "I will only love you if you love me". Jesus said that even the pagans do that, Matthew 5:46, but that God is perfect, Matthew 5:48

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Jesus said that it's easy to love those who love us back, or who loved us first. He taught us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us though. And this was illustrated perfectly by the cross; while we were sinners, Christ died for us.

Oldmantook said:

What I specifically asked you to do is to explain why Jn 14:21 doesn't contradict what you believe.

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I did.
I said that John teaches that we love because God first loved us, and that love comes from God because he IS love.
I said that God loves us, and showed that love by sending Jesus to die for us. When we think about, grasp and respond to such love, then we will love God. As we love God and walk in the light with him, he will give us more of his love; agape love.
We can only keep Jesus' command to love others with the same love that he showed to us - agape love - by coming to God and receiving that love.
We only come to God when we realise/accept that he sent Jesus to die for us when we were sinners and didn't deserve it. We love God because he first loved us.
It's a circle of love; one that began with God.

It is all from God. WE sinned and deserved eternal death; God sent his Son to die and give us eternal life.
The Good News is not "if you work hard and do enough you will earn God's love", it is "we could never earn God's love and favour, but he has showed it anyway."

As others have said, God loves all of His creation, and that includes humans who hate and reject Him. He cannot NOT Love, for He is Love.

Strong in Him said:

Which, with respect, is what you did.
You quoted the OP, and said;

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No, I did not do that. The OP offered a question without any scripture of his own. That is fine as he was just asking a question. I replied by offering a supporting scripture for my view and I explained what it means as I understand it. If he wanted more scriptural confirmation I would have supplied him with such. If he wanted to counter my explanation with his, I would have to counter-reply. One must first have to wrestle with the original verse in its context; otherwise to throw other verses into the fray without first addressing the original verse amounts to proof-texting.

Strong in Him said:

I did.
I said that John teaches that we love because God first loved us, and that love comes from God because he IS love.
I said that God loves us, and showed that love by sending Jesus to die for us. When we think about, grasp and respond to such love, then we will love God. As we love God and walk in the light with him, he will give us more of his love; agape love.
We can only keep Jesus' command to love others with the same love that he showed to us - agape love - by coming to God and receiving that love.
We only come to God when we realise/accept that he sent Jesus to die for us when we were sinners and didn't deserve it. We love God because he first loved us.
It's a circle of love; one that began with God.

It is all from God. WE sinned and deserved eternal death; God sent his Son to die and give us eternal life.
The Good News is not "if you work hard and do enough you will earn God's love", it is "we could never earn God's love and favour, but he has showed it anyway."

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Respectfully, no you did not. You never directly dealt with John 14:21 did you. You simply resorted to other verses which you claim support your view. Please exegete Jn 14:21. If you don't mind, I'll await your explanation of that verse. Once you do that then I will demonstrate that the verses you have offered in support of your view don't actually do that.

Strong in Him said:

No it isn't.
Christ died for us when we were sinners; when we were godless and disobedient.

God doesn't say, "I will only love you if you love me". Jesus said that even the pagans do that, Matthew 5:46, but that God is perfect, Matthew 5:48

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You don't appreciate how God knows the future and who will have faith. So to place any significance on us at one time being unrepentant sinners is meaningless. God knows that we will at some time love him.

Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

Further recognize that God calls those that will respond in faith and will be saved.

Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

ViaCrucis said:

He already loves them, because Christ died for them.

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Was Jesus' death without purpose? Was it without affect? Jesus died for the atonement of sins. That means on judgement day the one's Jesus died for, their sins will not be remembered or counted against them.

Those condemned to hell will have their sins remembered and counted against them. The purpose of Jesus' death has no benefit to them. Jesus' death did nothing for them and all during their lives he knows this. In short, Jesus did not die for those he knows he will judge and condemn to hell.

AnticipateHisComing said:

In short, Jesus did not die for those he knows he will judge and condemn to hell.

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So, in short, those who claim they have no sin and are not, (or do not claim to be) the sinners he died for...?

Neogaia777 said:

So, in short, those who claim they have no sin and are not, (or do not claim to be) the sinners he died for...?

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I would agree with that, if that is what you are saying...?

In short, only a sinner needs a savior... The (self) righteous do not...

God Bless!

Oldmantook said:

No, I did not do that. The OP offered a question without any scripture of his own. That is fine as he was just asking a question. I replied by offering a supporting scripture for my view and I explained what it means as I understand it. If he wanted more scriptural confirmation I would have supplied him with such. If he wanted to counter my explanation with his, I would have to counter-reply. One must first have to wrestle with the original verse in its context; otherwise to throw other verses into the fray without first addressing the original verse amounts to proof-texting.


Respectfully, no you did not. You never directly dealt with John 14:21 did you. You simply resorted to other verses which you claim support your view. Please exegete Jn 14:21. If you don't mind, I'll await your explanation of that verse. Once you do that then I will demonstrate that the verses you have offered in support of your view don't actually do that.

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Well, along with John 14:21, you have to consider it's context and John 14:15 before it, which says "If you love me, you will (in time, when mature) (future tense) keep my commandments..."

And John 14:21 is after that and says the same thing basically, but in reverse, "He that has my commandments (in him, in his heart) and (in time, eventually, when mature) (future tense) obey(s) them, is the one (who proves out at the end) that he loves me...

Now Jesus loves us before any of that, and if we love him, it is only because we only reciprocate for the deep love he has for us... And, in turn, if we learn how, in time, to love him (and others) the way he loves us, our love will grow into becoming perfect, and that and only that alone will enable you to keep the commandments continually and perfectly also...

Now I do not believe any of you on here who claim to have no sin and do not ever sin anymore, and I can determine this by how you talk or when and how you write... It is (with almost all of you) it is NOT out of love, so your actually NOT keeping the commandments, but are actually sinning, and most of you are doing it "right now", but you just fail to see it...

God Bless!