JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

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stuart lawrence

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Friend you have been answered already. Please read Post 629. If you believe this post has not answered your question than please explain why it does not. This was followed up with more of God's Word in Post # 639. Just saying you have not been answered does not make it true when I have already highlighted your questions and answered them in your earlier posts. We must believe the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God.

Jesus says if we follow the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following him (Matthew 15:3-9). I may have to leave it for now Stuart as I need to get ready for work. Maybe we can chat more latter. Hope your day is a great one my friend
This is what you do with Bob S and others isn't it. You claim to have answered their points when clearly you have not. You point them to posts where there questions have not been addressed.
This is the problem you see with only being able to reel off much of the letter, you cannot then respond to points put
 
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stuart lawrence

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Friend you have been answered already. Please read Post 629. If you believe this post has not answered your question than please explain why it does not. This was followed up with more of God's Word in Post # 639. Just saying you have not been answered does not make it true when I have already highlighted your questions and answered them in your earlier posts. We must believe the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God.

Jesus says if we follow the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following him (Matthew 15:3-9). I may have to leave it for now Stuart as I need to get ready for work. Maybe we can chat more latter. Hope your day is a great one my friend
Here you are from the original post. I cannot see where you addressed the specific points raised. Please respond by copy pasting your response to the specific points raised:

By stating you are not perfect, you must be aware you break Gods laws/commit sin. if you were sinning in ignorance you would not know you weren't perfect would you. For anyone who never commits sin is perfect are they not, for they must perfectly obey the entire law of God. Therefore, you must commit knowing sin, and, according to what you wrote, knowing sin brings condemnation under the law. it also means we do not have the Holy Spirit nor are you therefore walking after the Spirit. So you are making very conflicting statements once we dig into them I'm afraid.
But lets consider your idea of committing unknown sin. We can commit sin/break Gods laws without being convicted we are doing so.
Who is the convictor of sin in the believers life? It is the Holy Spirit as I hope you would agree(eg John 16:8-11) Therefore, anyone who claims to commit sin without conviction they are sinning would, it stands to reason be living a life where the Holy Spirit does not have the dominance in their life he should have, to put it mildly. Your thoughts on this do bear out my experience in an SDA church I went to for a couple of months to please a friend. In the church. many relentlessly stated: you must obey the TC.
Yet, in that church many people were casually taking the Lords name in vain, some even laughing as they did so, apparently unaware they were committing sin. They must have believed, as you appear to believe, you can commit unknowing sin. As I previously told you, in no other church I have ever been to have I heard anyone casually taking the Lords name in vain as I often heard in that SDA church. So from practical experience with them, and from what you write, it seems the average sda member is far less convicted of sin in their lives than in any other church I have personally belonged to. For every single christian I know would instinctively know they should not take the Lords name in vain, and would be aware they sinned by doing so.
Of course, this reflects the core of the covenant the Christian is under. the law God requires them to follow is written in their minds and placed on their hearts. And what is in your mind, you in your mind must know, obviously. So how come SDA seem to accept they can sin unknowingly?
I'm just being honest here, nothing more. It was when I saw the casual taking of the Lords name in vain in that SDA church, I realised something was radically wrong.
 
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stuart lawrence

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Under the OC Moses told the people their righteousness/justification would be obeying the law handed down at Sanai.(Deut 6:25) Sounds simple doesn't it, just reading a segment of the letter: Obey the law and you will be righteous before God. We could even say their judgement would be based on obeying the law/TC.
However, David wrote:

Do not bring your servant into judgement, for no one living is righteous before you
Psalms143:2

hmmm

But then, though an official law of righteousness was in place, you could say, Davids hope of Heaven/bottom line lay elsewhere:

I trust in your unfailing love forever and ever Psalms 52:8

Obviously, David did not hinge everything on the partial letter of scripture
 
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stuart lawrence

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When reading the bible, and reading of the life the Christian is called to live, you must always read it, understanding that what underwrites that message is the love, mercy and compassion of God for those he accepts as his children. Without that, you are left with cold, hard religion. The religion the Pharisees preached. Gods love is neglected(Luke11:42)
The Corinthian church were, according to Paul carnal/worldly(1Cor3:3) They broke up into factions. They let a man remain in their church who was sleeping with his fathers wife(1Cor ch5) Some of them got drunk at communion(1Corch11) Yet Paul addressed them as:
To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus(1Cor1:2)

I cant help reflecting, that many who go to church today, would not see such a church as Paul did. Rather they would utter condemnation of it
 
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LoveGodsWord

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This is what you do with Bob S and others isn't it. You claim to have answered their points when clearly you have not. You point them to posts where there questions have not been addressed.
This is the problem you see with only being able to reel off much of the letter, you cannot then respond to points put

It is true that some only see what they want to see because it is written; Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Under the OC Moses told the people their righteousness/justification would be obeying the law handed down at Sanai.(Deut 6:25) Sounds simple doesn't it, just reading a segment of the letter: Obey the law and you will be righteous before God. We could even say their judgement would be based on obeying the law/TC. However, David wrote: Do not bring your servant into judgement, for no one living is righteous before you Psalms143:2 hmmm But then, though an official law of righteousness was in place, you could say, Davids hope of Heaven/bottom line lay elsewhere: I trust in your unfailing love forever and ever Psalms 52:8 Obviously, David did not hinge everything on the partial letter of scripture

Actually nope. Salvation in the old testament is the same as those in the new and that is only by faith in God's Word. (Hebrews 11) and as such we must believe and follow God's Word to be saved from our sins. If we have known unrepentant sin in our lives we do not know God (1 John 3:6). This is the same as following the traditions of man that break the commandments of God (Matthew 15:3-9)
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Here you are from the original post. I cannot see where you addressed the specific points raised. Please respond by copy pasting your response to the specific points raised:

By stating you are not perfect, you must be aware you break Gods laws/commit sin. if you were sinning in ignorance you would not know you weren't perfect would you. For anyone who never commits sin is perfect are they not, for they must perfectly obey the entire law of God. Therefore, you must commit knowing sin, and, according to what you wrote, knowing sin brings condemnation under the law. it also means we do not have the Holy Spirit nor are you therefore walking after the Spirit. So you are making very conflicting statements once we dig into them I'm afraid.
But lets consider your idea of committing unknown sin. We can commit sin/break Gods laws without being convicted we are doing so.
Who is the convictor of sin in the believers life? It is the Holy Spirit as I hope you would agree(eg John 16:8-11) Therefore, anyone who claims to commit sin without conviction they are sinning would, it stands to reason be living a life where the Holy Spirit does not have the dominance in their life he should have, to put it mildly. Your thoughts on this do bear out my experience in an SDA church I went to for a couple of months to please a friend. In the church. many relentlessly stated: you must obey the TC.
Yet, in that church many people were casually taking the Lords name in vain, some even laughing as they did so, apparently unaware they were committing sin. They must have believed, as you appear to believe, you can commit unknowing sin. As I previously told you, in no other church I have ever been to have I heard anyone casually taking the Lords name in vain as I often heard in that SDA church. So from practical experience with them, and from what you write, it seems the average sda member is far less convicted of sin in their lives than in any other church I have personally belonged to. For every single christian I know would instinctively know they should not take the Lords name in vain, and would be aware they sinned by doing so.
Of course, this reflects the core of the covenant the Christian is under. the law God requires them to follow is written in their minds and placed on their hearts. And what is in your mind, you in your mind must know, obviously. So how come SDA seem to accept they can sin unknowingly?
I'm just being honest here, nothing more. It was when I saw the casual taking of the Lords name in vain in that SDA church, I realised something was radically wrong.

I have said nothing that you have said above. Your answered questions from the posts you would not look to from Post 629 and Post # 639 as mentioned earlier......

Your question...............
Do you claim to be ignorant of any of Gods laws? I'm sure you must answer no to that. Therefore if you commit sin you must commit knowing sin.

The answer you chose not to see...........
Well this is a good question. My answer would be yes and no. I say this because yes I know God's Law (10 commandments) but everyday I am growing in grace so I do not perfectly know the depth of God's Law. This is called growing in grace (1 Peter 2:1-21; Ephesians 4:15; 2 Peter 1:2-12; 2 Peter 3:18; 1 Corinthians 13:9-13)

Your question...............
So the next question is: Do you ever commit any sin? You are not going to answer that are you!!

The answer you chose not to see...........
Without Jesus all I can do is sin because I am a sinner. I am blind, deaf, lame, poor and naked. Sick in sin and in need of a physician. He is my Physician because I am sick in sin and cannot heal myself. He changes my filthy rags for his white robe of righteousness which he swapped for my filthy rags and by his stripes I am healed. Now I walk in him by faith and not by sight because I am blind. He is in me and His Spirit guides my steps. I am growing in grace and not yet perfect but I am perfect in him as I believe and follow his Word. Now he strengthens me to do all things. I was a servant to sin now he sets me free to love him because he first loved me.

Then based on my responses to your question answered above I said (not what you said) I responded with.......

Jesus says; Now you are CLEAN THROUGH THE WORD which I have spoken unto you. ABIDE IN ME <the Word>, and I IN YOU. As the branch cannot BEAR FRUIT of itself, except it abide in the vine; NO MORE CAN YOU, except you ABIDE IN ME. I am the vine, ye are the branches: HE THAT ABIDES IN ME AND I IN HIM, the same brings forth much FRUIT: for WITHOUT ME <the Word> YOU CAN DO NOTHING. If a man ABIDE NOT IN ME <the Word>, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye ABIDE IN ME <the Word>, and MY WORDS ABIDE IN YOU, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, THAT YOU BARE MUCH FRUIT; SO SHALL YOU BE MY DISCIPLES. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. IF YOU KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, YOU SHALL ABIDE IN MY LOVE; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love (John 15:3-10).

This is the same as ............

WALK IN THE SPIRIT and you shall NOT FULFILL THE LUSTS OF THE FLESH (Galatians 5:16: 25; Romans 8:1-4; 14)

The keys .........

It is the SPIRIT that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU THEY ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (John 6:63)

You must be born again to know God's power to be free from sin and bare fruit.........

Whosoever ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: < this is the same as John 15:3-10 above> WHOSOEVER SINS <the fruit> hath not seen him, neither known him <not abiding in him>.
Little children, LET KNOW MAN DECEIVE YOU: HE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS. HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; <why?> FOR HIS SEED REMAINS IN HIM: <What does the seed represent?; Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God - Luke 8:11> and HE CANNOT SIN BECAUSE HE IS BORN OF GOD <through faith in God's word>. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother (1 John 3:6-10)

We are born again by faith in God's Word. Faith is the victory......

BEING BORN AGAIN, not of corruptible SEED, but of incorruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which lives and ABIDES FOREVER (1 Peter 1:23).

Faith is the victory...........

For whatsoever is BORN OF GOD OVERCOMES THE WORLD: and THIS IS THE VICTORY THAT OVERCOMES THE WORLD, EVEN OUR FAITH (1 John 5:4).

Let's put it all together.................

It is only through faith by believing and following the word of God that we have victory over sin and know the power of God unto salvation. God's Word is God's power (Jude 1:24; Romans 1:16; 2 Corinthians 6:7; 1 Peter 1:5) The power of God is according to the Spirit of holiness (Romans 1:4). If we do not know God's Word we do not know his power (Matthew 22:29) If we are sinning we do not know him (1 John 3:6). If we break one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12). Jesus says if we follow the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of man that breaks the commandments of God. If we have unrepentant known sin in our lives we do not know God and are not following him...

Well there you go, your questions were indeed answered from Post 629 and Post # 639 as mentioned earlier......
 
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LoveGodsWord

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When reading the bible, and reading of the life the Christian is called to live, you must always read it, understanding that what underwrites that message is the love, mercy and compassion of God for those he accepts as his children. Without that, you are left with cold, hard religion. The religion the Pharisees preached. Gods love is neglected(Luke11:42) The Corinthian church were, according to Paul carnal/worldly(1Cor3:3) They broke up into factions. They let a man remain in their church who was sleeping with his fathers wife(1Cor ch5) Some of them got drunk at communion(1Corch11) Yet Paul addressed them as: To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus(1Cor1:2) I cant help reflecting, that many who go to church today, would not see such a church as Paul did. Rather they would utter condemnation of it

It is only by faith that works by love that anyone can follow him who loves all. How can we being evil do good things? Truly, truly I say unto you unless a man is born again he can in no wise see the Kingdom of Heaven. This is because spiritual things are spiritually discerned and they are foolishness unto him.

Many are called but few are chosen because narrow is the way and few there be that find it. Only the mirror shows the way so the blind can see. Those that say they see are really the blind ones and if the blind shall lead the blind both shall fall into a ditch. Those that have looked into the mirror however see they are blind so they walk by faith and not by sight. They see the one who loves all and follow him.

Only by love can God fulfill his Law in the blind because they walk by faith and see him who loves all. The mirror shows the way. How can you know the way when you have no mirror or your mirror is broken?
 
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bugkiller

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Well none of that is true at all and is just repeating the same as your earlier post. I do not condemn you nor do I judge you. It is the Word of God that Jesus says will judge all in the last days. If any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Please tell me how these scriptures are offending you...... None of the above was directed at you personally as they are general scriptures that all must believe and follow including myself.
Your claim with these words He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, are that I reject the words of Jesus. This is simply not true. I have quoted this to you -

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. Jn 15

The word "my" is possessive taking ownership of something. The verse clearly shows us Jesus is not taking possession of the law (His Father's commandments) which He kept. From your posts I do not believe you accept what is clearly written in the verse.

I do not believe you accept as written -

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. JN 1 Either John is lying, does not know or is not inspired. Can you show this text is polluted?

I could go on about texts from the Gospels and Acts you refuse to accept as truth. But why? I am not here to oppose you or be contentious. I have been here much longer than you.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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To be "Under the Law" means a number of things (1) to be convicted by the Law of God as a sinner or (2) trying to believe you have salvation by the works of the Law

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Does not show all are under the law. Read more for context. Paul says all are under sin, not (the) law. This is really a continuation of chapter 2. Paul says such things as show the law written on their heart.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

But the Pharisees are demanding they keep the law of Moses in Acts 15. It should be obvious the gentiles are not keeping the law of Moses (this includes all the law contained in the first 5 books of the Bible. Paul always speaks of the law as an indivisible unit. So does James. Paul specifically calls the 10 Cs the law in Rom 7.

Going back some sin is not only a violation of the law. It is also a violation of the law. You know the verse. Sin was in the world before the law (Rom 5:13). The law came because of transgression (sin) according to Gal 3:19.

There is more I could say about your verse. and yes I could post about the rest of your posted verses. But why should I? You have proved over and over you will not discuss any thing we post.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Actually everything that was the verse you were offended over, but the scripture applies to all mankind, myself included. We should not be offended by God's Word but believe it.

Nope I do not
Yes because I believe we should believe and follow God's Word over the teachings and traditions of man that break the commandments of God because Jesus says if we follow the teachings of man over the Word of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
Yes the Scripture applies to all mankind. So why does the NT Scripture not apply to all mankind?

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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If I do not know what question you are talking about how is using the back button going to help? To my knowledge I have answered all your questions. If you believe I have not or missed something then re-post it and let's discuss it
That was one post away.

bugkiller
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That was one post away.
bugkiller
Post it and let's discuss it. To my knowledge all your questions have been answered. If you believe otherwise then post your question. If you cannot we must believe God's Word over the teachings and traditions of man.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: To be "Under the Law" means a number of things (1) to be convicted by the Law of God as a sinner or (2) trying to believe you have salvation by the works of the Law. Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

bugkiller replied: Does not show all are under the law. Read more for context. Paul says all are under sin, not (the) law. This is really a continuation of chapter 2. Paul says such things as show the law written on their heart. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Actually no. The scripture says what it says.....

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

It matches very well with the rest of the scriptures and what was posted earlier.........

To be "Under the Law" means a number of things (1) to be convicted by the Law of God as a sinner or (2) trying to believe you have salvation by the works of the Law

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law says, it says to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 2:12-13

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin UNDER THE LAW will be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Romans 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that THEY ARE ALL UNDER SIN <If they are under sin they are guilty under the Law because sin is the transgression of God's Law>

To be "Under the works of the Law" means to try and earn your salvation through trying to keep God's Law.

Romans 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galations 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God but if we have unrepentant sin in our lives (knowingly breaking any of God's Commandments) we stand guilty because God of committing sin and are guilty under the Law.

God's Law only condemns us if we are guilty of knowingly breaking it as posted above (Romans 3:19; Romans 2:12-13; Romans 3:9). If we are knowingly breaking any of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of committing sin (Romans 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4). This is why we must not follow the teachings and traditions of man that break God's Law.

If we are breaking God's commandments and have sin in our lives we are not walking in the Spirit of God or do we have the Holy Spirit or know him who loves us. (Acts 5:32; 1 John 2:4; 1 John 3:6-8)

We must believe and follow the Word of God over the teachings of man that break the commandments of God (Matthew 15:3-9; Romans 3:4)
But the Pharisees are demanding they keep the law of Moses in Acts 15. It should be obvious the gentiles are not keeping the law of Moses (this includes all the law contained in the first 5 books of the Bible. Paul always speaks of the law as an indivisible unit. So does James. Paul specifically calls the 10 Cs the law in Rom 7.
Acts 15 is talking about the ceremonial laws of Moses that were shadows of things to come and nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14-17) having their fulfillment in Jesus. They are not discussing God's Law (10 commandments). I guess that did not help you much.
Going back some sin is not only a violation of the law. It is also a violation of the law. You know the verse. Sin was in the world before the law (Rom 5:13). The law came because of transgression (sin) according to Gal 3:19.
Of course sin was in the world before God's Law was given because before sin mankind was in harmony with God and had not sinned.
There is more I could say about your verse. and yes I could post about the rest of your posted verses. But why should I? You have proved over and over you will not discuss any thing we post. bugkiller
Seems to me you have not proven anything.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Your claim with these words He that rejects me, and receiveth not my words, are that I reject the words of Jesus. This is simply not true. I have quoted this to you -
Whether you believe God's Word or not this is between you and God. I do not judge you. The scripture is for all including myself showing we must believe God's Word and not reject it.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. Jn 15 The word "my" is possessive taking ownership of something. The verse clearly shows us Jesus is not taking possession of the law (His Father's commandments) which He kept. From your posts I do not believe you accept what is clearly written in the verse.
Why do you think that Jesus has a different set of commandments to our Heavenly father when it is written; I and my Father are one (John 10:30)?
I do not believe you accept as written -17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. JN 1 Either John is lying, does not know or is not inspired. Can you show this text is polluted? I could go on about texts from the Gospels and Acts you refuse to accept as truth. But why? I am not here to oppose you or be contentious. I have been here much longer than you. bugkiller
Many today and in the days of the prophets did not understand God's Word because it is written; Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. They choose to close they eyes to the Word of God rather then come to the Word and believe it so that God could heal them (Acts 28:25-27).

We must believe and follow the Word of God over the teachings and traditions of man (Matthew 15:3-9)
 
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bugkiller

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Nope it is because I went there and found no posts from you there so I do not know what you are referring to.
Simply amazing. I went where listed directed you and found the first 8 posts with his name on them and you even responded to one of them on the same page.

bugkiller
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Simply amazing. I went where listed directed you and found the first 8 posts with his name on them and you even responded to one of them on the same page.bugkiller

listed's post:
Wonder why? Is it because you won't go to page 6 of your thread you keep sending me back to?
Don't know where you went to page 6 for me listed is not even on the whole page
 
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