I am sorry. We have different Bibles. Mine are off the shelf versions over 40 years old. If i look the print date is probably even older.
bugkiller
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(Moved) The law. Is it done away with? Is it, really?
- Thread starter Devin P
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bugkiller
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Romans 11. Israel is the good olive tree. We are grafted in by faith into the good olive tree.
1 Corinthians 6:1-6
1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
(Here it's literally saying why would you bring a matter before the heathens that are without the law, and not the saints? What's different about our judgement, than an unbeliever's judgement? Does faith in Jesus make us suddenly able to judge things better? No. Saints are saints, only because they have faith in Jesus, but also, because they know, and observe the Torah. When we see and read verses saying not to judge, it's right. We aren't to judge, of ourselves. We aren't to determine what we think is right and wrong. Judging things with the judgement of God, which Torah gives us, isn't us judging. It's God's judgement, we're just the voice of it, we are the light.)
2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
(If we judge, without the law, to which standard will we judge the world? So if there's 10 judges, I'm one, you're another, will we have two different standards of judgement? No. We'll have one voice, and one judgement. The judgements of God, as described in His Torah)
3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
As far as the law not existing during the millennial reign:
Isaiah 56:6-8, Jeremiah 33:18, Ezekiel 43:18-27
All of the verses I just linked you, deal with the millennial reign. All of them involve animal sacrifice. There are other verses that prove that the law will not be done away with during the reign, but my point still stands. It doesn't make sense for the law to exist literally all of creation, except for a small 1700 year portion, only to again be reinstated during the millennial reign. God doesn't change, the law is the law, because those who observe it, love Him.
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Just answer this one question. What is sin, and how you do you avoid it?
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LoveGodsWord
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Lee Stuvmen
If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:
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There are a couple of verses of Scripture. . . . . . . . . . .
Are you seeking truth, or seeking as the world seeks; to prove what you already believe is truth?
Let us assume you are seeking greater understanding in truth and start here;
Have you ever been to a funeral?
What is missing? Flesh or Spirit?
Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Is God FLESH, or SPIRIT?
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: . . . . . . . . .
Do the righteous worship with their flesh, or their spirit?
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Can FLESH inherit the Kingdom?
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
We are BORN of FLESH. What must we be "reborn" as?
John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Can flesh(an arm or leg) believe anything, or does it take a SPIRIT to believe and confess?
1 John 4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
2 Corinthians 4:13
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
IF you are seeking truth, this should be a good start, if not, posting ALL of Scripture would not matter.
Galatians 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
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Lee Stuvmen
If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:
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Hi Devon!
Scripture tells us GOD IS LOVE.(true of false)
1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
IF God is LOVE, what would be the LAW, in a kingdom of LOVE, ruled by LOVE?
If the COMMANDMENTS are to LOVE;
To NOT LOVE would be lawlessness.
Mosaic Law which was added because of TRANSGRESSION against the 10 Commandments WAS ONLY TEMPORARY, and will not be necessary when;
Thy kingdom come, LOVE WILL BE DONE, on earth as it is in Heaven.
Proverbs 1:32
For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
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Lee Stuvmen
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Well, I mean I see what you're talking about, but the bible disagrees to the implication.
See, the law, always has been about love. If you desire it, you love God, and if you fulfill it, you love your neighbor.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
To love God, is to keep His commands, but His commands, are about loving Him, and loving your neighbor. BUT, the beauty of it, is that the love this gives us, is perfect. It's using a standard of judgement that is perfect, so that if you do happen to cross your neighbor, which it says you shouldn't, it'll give you the way to either be punished perfectly, or it'll give you the way to make it up to your neighbor - again, perfectly. Why perfectly? Because, the law is the standard by which God our creator judges. It is the standard by which we will be judged, and by which (in the millennial reign) we will judge the world, and angels alike.
Not the 10 commandments, but the law entirely. You see, sin distances us from God, and up until this point, God's spirit was dwelling with those not taken over entirely by sin to such an extent, that they knew what God wanted in His Quodesh (holy) Law. All throughout Genesis, way before Moses gave the law to the people, Abraham, Noah, Enoch, Lot, Jacob, etc, kept God's Qodesh Law, way before it was given to the people on Mt. Sinai.
Right. The turning away of the simple shall slay them. Turning away from God, and His Quodesh Law. If someone knows God, and knows about His Law, and turns away, there is no hope for that one. He's doomed for destruction.
Whether it's Noah only being able to eat clean animals, giving a burnt offering to God
Abraham keeping His Laws (and this out of the mouth of God, telling us Abraham kept them)
Abraham being given a ram to offer as a burnt offering instead of his son (one of the three animals acceptable according to God's law for such an offering)
Cain and Abel offering sacrifices to God (And Abel offering a meat offering after the order given in the Law Moses gave to the Israelites)
I can go on and on, all throughout Genesis, way before the Torah was written or given to Israel, those who were of God kept His Law, because it's forever. It always has been, and always will be.
We are called to be a light to the world, what does that mean? Just be nice? What separates us from Jehovah's Witnesses? I've heard of them mowing peoples lawns (the elderly) just to get converts. They go door to door, and give countless hours a month to help the community and do goodwill, so if it's just to be nice and loving, we definitely aren't separating ourselves much, right? Because all people are outwardly, (and appear to be to everyone) kind and loving.
We are to be a light to the world, but what does the bible describe as a light?
Proverbs 6:23 - For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
Psalms 119:105 - NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
We are called to be a light, but that light, isn't just being loving. Yes, we're to be loving, but what He means by our being a "light to the world", is that we walk in God's statutes, judgements, decrees and laws. Why? Because, you will seem utterly foolish to people at times. Whether it's tzitzits, or sabbath days, or holy days, these ways, just as Noah building an Ark, condemn the world and those that aren't doing them. But by doing them, you will be a living, walking, breathing testimony to God, and people will notice. You'll typically get 1 of 3 responses.
1. They'll be really curious, and ask. Boom, a chance to witness and give your reason for doing what you do.
2. You'll get talked about and mocked, judged and ostracized in some cases.
3. You'll get punished. Either when they find out what your reasonings are, or because they already know and hate it. Or, maybe nothing really having to do with the person in general, maybe just the ways of God are contrary to the policies and ways of the people, place, or thing you're dealing with.
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I didn't see a reference to spiritual Israel in any of the Scripture you listed.
I'm not trying to prove what I already believe and what I believe is based on Scripture.
Has God rejected His people?
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Sometimes we need to do what Jesus admonishes us to do. shake the dust off your feet........
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Do you mean like “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
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That's great because we know that the whole Torah is based on this command.
And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment.39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
So yeh, love one another.
The word "new" in your passage from John is Strongs 2537, it means new as in freshness. Yeshua was renewing a command and making it more relevant.
Otherwise Yeshua would be guilty of sin because it is against the Torah to add to it.
These passages from I John and II John explains it further:
Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. 8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
Now I ask you, lady, not as though I were writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another.
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Hello David
That is kind of you...
I will print this again...
Rom 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
And this again
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
So then... "no taking God's name in vain" because it is "still" a sin.
This point appears to be clear to all of us.
We are discussing Romans 2 not other texts.
The term "under the Law" is not used in Romans 2 -- as we both know.
It is used in Romans 3.
And the "LAW" in both cases is the moral law of God ... the one that says "Do not take God's name in vain".
Thus it is "still a sin" for someone to "take God's name in vain" as all of us -- know very well.
" sin is transgression of the letter of the law." 1 John 3:4. Period.
You have quoted "you" very well.. now how about the actual Bible?
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