Christian Antinatlism

AlexDTX said:

The gifts and the callings of God are without repentance. The command to be fruitful has not been rescinded by God. What number fulfills his command? Billions? Trillions? You can not say that the number has been fulfilled. How can there be spiritual children if there are not physical children first? For someone who is proud of his biblical knowledge, you don't seem to be aware of the influence of globalist propaganda in your thinking.

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Yes, children can be a gift from the Lord, but they are not a command today. Even Abraham was prevented by God in having a child until his old age. Also, in the "Story of the Tower of Babel", we learn that they were not spreading accross the globe as a part of the command to FILL the Earth. The Earth has been filled (kind of like pouring water into a glass).

God says,

"...Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it." (Genesis 1:28) (NIV).

Also, you have to re-write the words of Paul. He says it is better to remain as he is (i.e. single). While this is not a command, his words still are Scripture and are God breathed. Meaning, they come from God. Meaning, God says this is a suggestion. God suggests that is better to remain single if you can. But those who cannot take God's suggestion and need to be married because they are weak, or they need companionship, it is better to marry than to burn. You will also see no New Testament Command re-emphasizing for us to be fruitful and to fill the Earth still, either. It wouldn't make any sense today for such a command because the Earth is already filled. But you can believe contrary to Scripture if you wish.

Bluerose31 said:

I am a Christian Antinatalist. I do not want to be married for several reasons but one is that I do not want to have children. I feel that the world is not a safe place and I do not want to bring children into the world. I think children are beautiful but because of what I have experienced in life it shows me that life is not a safe place and not compassionate. I feel peace knowing my children will never hurt, because they will never be born. I have experienced alot of pain in my life and I don't feel life is good. I long for heaven and I long for being safe and healed in God's heaven. Antinatlism is just the philosophy that it is better not to have children because life is unsafe. Has anyone decided not to have children for similar reasons? What are your opinions of Christian Antinatalism?

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Your life, your call! Don't bother with those who claim God commands us all to be fruitful and multiply. The earth has been filled with plenty of people by now.

It is also your call as to being married or not. You could be married and refrain from having children, of course, but . . . of course you don't HAVE to do that!

Just one more thought . . . even though you don't, yourself, cause a child to come into this sad sad world, you can still ethically involve yourself with a child that is already here and in that way help at least one more child to be safer and loved. I don't mean to lay an obligation on you, I simply wish to point out an option that is perhaps consistent with your imperatives . . . maybe adoption or foster parenting?

Jason0047 said:

Even Abraham was prevented by God in having a child until his old age.

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You presume that it was God that hindered Sarah's fertility. You do not know that, nor is it consistent with the God of Abundant Life. I suppose you also believe that God caused Rachel to die in childbirth?

Jason0047 said:

Also, you have to re-write the words of Paul. He says it is better to remain as he is (i.e. single). While this is not a command, his words still are Scripture and are God breathed. Meaning, they come from God. Meaning, God says this is a suggestion. God suggests that is better to remain single if you can.

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So, since the Bible is God breathed, according to you, then it is all God's will. Therefore we should marry many women like King Solomon did. You misunderstand the what the confluence of Scriptures means. The feelings of the writers are included in the Scripture, but do not always reflect the will of God. Jonah hated the Ninevites and did not want them to repent. His feeling is recorded for us but we also know that it was God's will for Nineveh to repent. Paul clearly says this is by permission regarding celibacy. If all Christians refused procreation, we would die out. Your thinking is muddled.

Bluerose31 said:

I am a Christian Antinatalist. I do not want to be married for several reasons but one is that I do not want to have children. I feel that the world is not a safe place and I do not want to bring children into the world. I think children are beautiful but because of what I have experienced in life it shows me that life is not a safe place and not compassionate. I feel peace knowing my children will never hurt, because they will never be born. I have experienced alot of pain in my life and I don't feel life is good. I long for heaven and I long for being safe and healed in God's heaven. Antinatlism is just the philosophy that it is better not to have children because life is unsafe. Has anyone decided not to have children for similar reasons? What are your opinions of Christian Antinatalism?

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Your philosophy, if adopted by all, would lead to the extinction of the human race. Is that ethical?

AlexDTX said:

You presume that it was God that hindered Sarah's fertility. You do not know that, nor is it consistent with the God of Abundant Life.

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God closed Hannah's womb.

"And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the LORD had shut up her womb." (1 Samuel 1:6).

You said:

I suppose you also believe that God caused Rachel to die in childbirth?

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God is the giver and taker of life. For It is written,

"Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass." (Job 14:5).

"My times are in thy hand..." (Psalms 31:15).

"And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power." (Acts of the Apostles 1:7).

1 "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; ..." (Ecclesiastes 3:1-2).

"Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints." (Psalms 116:15).

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." (Revelation 1:18).

You said:

So, since the Bible is God breathed, according to you, then it is all God's will. Therefore we should marry many women like King Solomon did.

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Paul was offering wise advice. Paul was not doing something that was immoral or wrong by his suggestion. He was offering advice while under the inspiration of God. God used Paul as a vessel.

You said:

You misunderstand the what the confluence of Scriptures means. The feelings of the writers are included in the Scripture, but do not always reflect the will of God.

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Paul was not giving a commandment from the Lord to be married or single because a believer has the freedom to marry or not to marry. But if you don't believe the words of Paul as inspired Scripture here, then believe Peter's words.

"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps." (1 Peter 2:21).

If we are to imitate the life of Jesus, then we would should be single like Him (if we can). But Paul says, it is better to marry than to burn. So if you cannot refuse the temptation of desiring to be with a woman, then have your own wife so as to avoid fornication.

John also tells us to imitate Christ.

"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:6).

You said:

Jonah hated the Ninevites and did not want them to repent. His feeling is recorded for us but we also know that it was God's will for Nineveh to repent.

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But we see clearly that Jonah's thinking is wrong because God is correcting him on his anger later. God does not correct Paul in regards to telling us the reader to remain single as he is. God nowhere corrects Paul in his telling us to be single.

You said:

Paul clearly says this is by permission regarding celibacy. If all Christians refused procreation, we would die out. Your thinking is muddled.

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Most people do not obey God. In fact, God knows that not everyone is going to follow or obey His words. God knows that people are going to procreate regardless. Plus, God does allow for marriage and procreation. Most have a hard time walking the life of Paul. So many marry and have children.

Open Heart said:

Your philosophy, if adopted by all, would lead to the extinction of the human race. Is that ethical?

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But God knows that not everyone obeys Him. Also, God allows for marriage. But Paul says it is better to remain single as he is. But imagine a world that all became like the apostle Paul? Would that be a bad world to live in? Surely that would be wonderful. For Paul was a godly man and was exceptionally self sacrificing in his love for others. Everyone would die or be raptured and be with God. Hooray!!!! But that is not going to happen exactly like that. Not all men are going to be like Paul.

Jason0047 said:

But God knows that not everyone obeys Him. Also, God allows for marriage. But Paul says it is better to remain single as he is. But imagine a world that all became like the apostle Paul? Would that be a bad world to live in? Surely that would be wonderful. For Paul was a godly man and was exceptionally self sacrificing in his love for others. Everyone would die or be raptured and be with God. Hooray!!!! But that is not going to happen exactly like that. Not all men are going to be like Paul.

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Are you saying you are going to be as Paul recommended and remain unmarried and celibate?

Open Heart said:

Are you saying you are going to be as Paul recommended and remain unmarried and celibate?

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Obviously you are not reading what I had written. I said God makes an allowance for marriage. But it is not a command because Paul (under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost) had written to us believers preferring that we should be single if we can do so. He says if you cannot resist, it is better to marry than to burn. I am married, so your question does not apply.

Jason0047 said:

Obviously you are not reading what I had written. I said God makes an allowance for marriage. But it is not a command because Paul (under the inspriation of the Holy Ghost) had written to us believers preferring that we should be single if we can do so. He says if you cannot resist, it is better to marry than to burn. I am married, so your question does not apply.

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There are those who, as Paul, are called to celibacy. Blue Rose may be such a person (although it's more likely she is going through a phase). I am simply trying to make sure she is not advocating this for everyone. Heck, I'm celibate myself, although I was married for nine years and have two children. I'm sorry I confused you with Blue Rose.

@Bluerose31 I wonder what your thoughts on this thread, now that you are married?

Bluerose31 said:

Hi there Me and Caleb decided we will not have children. We still feel that the world is not a safe place enough to have children right now. We know others may choose to have children and we feel that is fine but we will not.

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You cannot choose to live your life in fear because the world is not a safe place, that is a very wrong motive (biblically speaking) for not wanting to have children. A person living in fear is a person behind bars more powerful than steel and that is why throughout the Bible, the Word of God tells us “FEAR NOT” so as to assure us of the promise of comfort, security, and peace in Christ alone.

Children are a blessing from God. Every good gift that is given to us comes from above and ultimately God owns it all, even a child one gives birth too is 100% owned by God and not the parent. You only have to trust God to empower you in the responsibility of raising them up which is a great privilege if one is able to do so. Also remember this, you can't keep a child in the house locked up forever, that is why parents teach their children to look both ways when they cross the road, because sooner or later they going to have to cross it by themselves.

Mskriskris said:

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1 Cor. 7 is a relevant passage in relation to couples of fertile age wearing c...s always.

Bluerose31 said:

I am a Christian Antinatalist. I do not want to be married for several reasons but one is that I do not want to have children. I feel that the world is not a safe place and I do not want to bring children into the world. I think children are beautiful but because of what I have experienced in life it shows me that life is not a safe place and not compassionate. I feel peace knowing my children will never hurt, because they will never be born. I have experienced alot of pain in my life and I don't feel life is good. I long for heaven and I long for being safe and healed in God's heaven. Antinatlism is just the philosophy that it is better not to have children because life is unsafe. Has anyone decided not to have children for similar reasons? What are your opinions of Christian Antinatalism?

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I think you should do whatever you want, with regards to marrying or not marrying, or not having children. The New Testament never says anything one way or the other, except to avoid sexual immorality. So, if you are celibate, then be celibate.

Just so you know, it is very easy to not have children, even if you are married. There are new birth control methods that are 100% and they last for decades. So, I hope you will not connect marriage to some kind of resulting necessity to have children. Of course, you would need to tell any potential spouse of your decision not to have children. That is only fair.

However, I do question your motives. The world has always been unsafe. In fact, we are probably safer in the West than at any time in history. Yet, people have always had children. If that is your only motive, I would search a bit deeper.

You also say that "my children will never hurt." Well, you don't have any children. There is no such thing as a theoretical child. Either you have children, and you love and protect them, or you don't have children, so please don't speculate the not-children are better off.

You speak about being hurt in life and longing for heaven. While longing for heaven is not a bad thing, God told us to choose life.

"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live" Deut. 30:19

I'm sorry you have been suffering, because of what has been done to you, and I would urge you to get some pastoral help. I hear strains of serious depression in the background. There is help for that.

And I was just talking with someone today about this whole issue of forgiving people who have wronged us, and how hard it is. And that sometimes it does not happen over night. I hope you have made peace with these people. You should never allow yourself to be abused again by these people. I think you need to be safe! But, God tells us in so many places that we need to forgive others, as he forgives us. The Lord's Prayer in Matt 6:12 says this, and so does this verse.

"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift."Matt 5:23-24

That is one of the "hard" sayings of Jesus. So, this is something you really need to pray about, and ask God to help you. If you are bitter, it will continue to hurt you more and more. And God can help you! It may take 30 years or more (as it did for me!) but God helped me totally reconcile with a parent who abused me. So, never give up asking God to help you forgive.

My concern, again, is not about whether you have children or not. That is totally your choice. But, I hear hurt and bitterness, so I would like to pray.

"Heavenly Father, help Bluerose seek healing for the damage that has hurt her. Show her how to forgive people who have made her life miserable and not worth living. Touch her, give her a new peace, and reasons to live. I pray that each day, she would seek you, keeping the record of wrongs short. Thank you for your mercy and grace, in Jesus name I pray, Amen."

Bluerose31 said:

Hi there Me and Caleb decided we will not have children. We still feel that the world is not a safe place enough to have children right now. We know others may choose to have children and we feel that is fine but we will not.

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I'm glad that you have settled on a decision that is good for you. I wish you both many years of happiness together.