Fasting on Wednesday and Friday

ArmyMatt said:

yes, although even those things that are permitted should be taken in moderation, especially on Fast days

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That makes sense, and thank you for the reply.

no problem!

FenderTL5 said:

I don't know of a prohibition. We have coffee during strict fast days. The prohibition essentially deals with food from animals of any kind. Oil and wine are also prohibited because they were traditionally stored in containers made of skins.

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ArmyMatt said:

yes, although even those things that are permitted should be taken in moderation, especially on Fast days

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Sorry, but a few further questions:

1. What does your fasting look like before the Divine Liturgy? No food or water? For what period of time?

2. You say that oil and wine were prohibited because of their storage in skin containers. Does that mean that beer and/or harder liquors are permitted? And what about foods that are high in oils, such as olives or nuts?

3. Are there specific guidelines for what "moderation" would entail? As in, do you prescribe the quantity of food, or number of meals that can be taken (remembering the prohibitions) during a fast day?

And again, thank you for your patience with what must seem very basic questions.

1. no food or drink from midnight the night before, unless you have a medical need.

2. I think in some places that is how beer drinking got started for the Orthodox. and nuts are fine.

3. depends on you and your spiritual father. for someone like a precessional athlete in training, moderate eating would look very different from the average parishioner. often a good guideline is to back away from the table a little hungry.

ArmyMatt said:

1. no food or drink from midnight the night before, unless you have a medical need.

2. I think in some places that is how beer drinking got started for the Orthodox. and nuts are fine.

3. depends on you and your spiritual father. for someone like a precessional athlete in training, moderate eating would look very different from the average parishioner. often a good guideline is to back away from the table a little hungry.

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ArmyMatt said:

1. no food or drink from midnight the night before, unless you have a medical need.

2. I think in some places that is how beer drinking got started for the Orthodox. and nuts are fine.

3. depends on you and your spiritual father. for someone like a precessional athlete in training, moderate eating would look very different from the average parishioner. often a good guideline is to back away from the table a little hungry.

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Thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

Shoetoyou said:

Thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

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no problem, just remember fasting is seen as therapy, and keep the questions coming!

Shoetoyou said:

Sorry, but a few further questions:

1. What does your fasting look like before the Divine Liturgy? No food or water? For what period of time?

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Our fasting rule before DL is the same as ArmyMatt described, total fast after midnight until after Liturgy unless there's health issue.

2. You say that oil and wine were prohibited because of their storage in skin containers. Does that mean that beer and/or harder liquors are permitted? And what about foods that are high in oils, such as olives or nuts?

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In our parish, during strict fasting periods, olives (but not olive oil) and nuts are OK. We abstain from all alcohol unless oil and wine are permitted. Your parish/Bishop may set different guidelines.

3. Are there specific guidelines for what "moderation" would entail? As in, do you prescribe the quantity of food, or number of meals that can be taken (remembering the prohibitions) during a fast day?

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My Priest has discussed moderation in general but has never addressed specifics publicly. However, some of the same items that were mentioned earlier were involved.. expensive shellfish or indulgence would seem counter to the goal of fasting etc.

And again, thank you for your patience with what must seem very basic questions.

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no worries, we're all in this together.

Our priest was specific to mention as the Dormition fast got underway that "wine" was to include any alcoholic drink for us - no beer or liquor.

My husband (not Orthodox and really not understanding Orthodox fasting) asked me last weekend if I wanted a fruit smoothie (which generally includes ice, whatever fresh fruit we have, a splash of soda, and maybe juice, when we make it). I said sure and was halfway through it before I found out he had put liquor in it.

Also per my priest's instructions, I did not embarrass my husband by complaining or refusing to drink the rest. But I do have something to confess now.

(Though not absolutely sure whether wine was allowed that day - sometimes it is on weekends during a fast. I normally don't check because I drink alcohol rarely anyway.)

To my knowledge, oil & wine (alcohol) is permitted on weekends. No strict fast is allowed on weekends except on Holy Saturday.

Constantine_Orthodox said:

To my knowledge, oil & wine (alcohol) is permitted on weekends. No strict fast is allowed on weekends except on Holy Saturday.

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Yes, looked it up, and you are right. I know there's some variations in jurisdictions, but I'm still nailing all this down. It doesn't help that my fast is very different from the prescribed one due to health issues, but I don't drink wine more than a few times in a few years so it's just not something I pay much attention to, unless it actually comes up.

So nothing to confess after all.

Just want to pop in to say I have read articles saying that periodic fasting(from meat called the Daniel fast in evangelical circles) has been shown to be healthy and to prevent cancer, some studies show!(As long as you have no medical reasons not to fast.)
My husband already gave up all dairy, and both my sons(in their early 20's) gave up dairy, including cheese, ect as they felt it exacerbated their cystic acne. The skin has cleared up for both, although my oldest son was on medication for several years-in order to clear his sever cystic acne.
In my own case I drink lots of milk, and eat yogurt, but I think fasting would be good for me on some levels. I would have to ease into slowly.
A question: Is Almond milk, or soy milk, alright during the fast, as it's not dairy, right?
(my husband gave up dairy due to digestive issues and feels way better.)

yes, my wife and I use almond milk during the Fasts

ArmyMatt said:

Wegman's has them and I know farmer's markets often have them. and I would not be that legalistic to check ingredients of bread or whatever. that defeats the purpose of the fast.

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Can you explain why? I've never quite understood this. If the point is to abstain from certain foods, what's the harm in checking to see whether or not you're actually abstaining from them and not accidentally breaking the fast?

Shiranui117 said:

Can you explain why? I've never quite understood this. If the point is to abstain from certain foods, what's the harm in checking to see whether or not you're actually abstaining from them and not accidentally breaking the fast?

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there is no harm in checking, but folks can take it too far. yes, you want to abstain, but you don't want to be a Pharisee about it.

This is in the realm of opinion rather than letter of the law, but my priest is of the opinion that shellfish should be included in the fast and that the only reason it was not spelled out is because early on nobody in their right mind would have eaten the shellfish available in the Mediterranean region because it was so poisonous. On the other hand, he is much more focused on the discipline of fasting than the specifics with regard to meat, dairy, etc.

Regarding shellfish, I think you have to use some judgement too. I eat shellfish very, very, VERY rarely, lol ... I love it but it's such a rare delicacy. I'm still waiting on my "birthday dinner" (over 10 months past due lol) because I want fried crab claws. I love crab and lobster. But even assuming I could afford it, it would be completely against the spirit of the fast to have crab and lobster every fasting night.

I didn't even know for the first couple of years of being Orthodox that it was allowed. I think once there was a feast/fast day and we had a parish dinner, and they served pasta with sauce and a few shrimp. I was confused lol.

All of this and any questions that come up because of it are best discussed with your priest. He can better explain any misconceptions we get.

~Anastasia~ said:

Regarding shellfish, I think you have to use some judgement too. I eat shellfish very, very, VERY rarely, lol ... I love it but it's such a rare delicacy. I'm still waiting on my "birthday dinner" (over 10 months past due lol) because I want fried crab claws. I love crab and lobster. But even assuming I could afford it, it would be completely against the spirit of the fast to have crab and lobster every fasting night.

I didn't even know for the first couple of years of being Orthodox that it was allowed. I think once there was a feast/fast day and we had a parish dinner, and they served pasta with sauce and a few shrimp. I was confused lol.

All of this and any questions that come up because of it are best discussed with your priest. He can better explain any misconceptions we get.

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Yeah, I'm not judging anyone who eats shellfish during a fast. I'm terrible at fasting and have a hard enough time with meat and dairy! I just wanted to share what my priest said because it was interesting to me.

that's another thing about shellfish. it was not seen as a delicacy back then as it is now. it was not the feasting food for the wealthy that it is now either (probably in addition to the fear of poison).

I feel silly for asking this, but what about salad dressing? Is this something I should stay away from?

Myong Hwan Eiselstein said:

I feel silly for asking this, but what about salad dressing? Is this something I should stay away from?

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depends on the salad dressing. ranch prolly should be avoided since it is thick and very flavorful.