Inducing brain state via music

TheOldWays

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Thanks, that one seems to get me into a somewhat meditative state. I tried to imagine the desired surrounding, but it wouldn't work. I seemed to see glimpses of a very pretty animal sitting behind a tree trunk looking at me, so that was something. :) Mostly I saw what a person typically sees with their eyes closed - darkness with little bits of amorphous light.

Probably it works better when a person is practiced. I do feel more relaxed, so that is the theta waves at 4-7 Hz

Interesting that you saw an animal. They say early on in your meditative trance journey an animal will present itself to you and that will be your spirit animal.
 
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cloudyday2

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Interesting that you saw an animal. They say early on in your meditative trance journey an animal will present itself to you and that will be your spirit animal.
It was a pretty animal, but I didn't try to talk to it or befriend it. My paranoid nature makes me cautious. I tried meditating after listening to the drum, and the experience was a little concerning. Before I started, I thought I saw a shadow of the animal in the room. Then when I lit a candle that hangs from a chain that I try to focus on, and the candle seemed to start swinging around erratically and then settle down and then start swinging again. Not a huge amount of swinging, but more than it should have been.

None of that was happening, but I have a tendency to imagine things. For example, when I watch a movie I can often smell things like cigarettes or wine or food being cooked.

So all that makes me think I need to not do things that are outside my comfort zone, because I have a tendency to worry and imagine. As Dirty Harry said "a man's got to know his limitations" ;)
 
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cloudyday2

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For Journeying I use this that also came as an mp3 with the CD on Sandra Ingerman's book "Awakening to the Spirit World".
I haven't listened to the whole thing, but I can tell it is good. The drummer must be well known, because I saw several other youtubes with her name. :)
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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There are currently studies being done to try and elicit religious or spiritual states based on music. I attended a lecture by a professor involved therein the other day, who thinks Church music may arouse religious states in and of itself.
They are trying to use similar things to the Koren Helmet, although the follow-up studies of that supposed electromagnetic-stimulated spiritualism did not corroborate the results.

It is interesting though. My wife says she feels God most acutely in music. I would assume the anhedonism of depression would extend to music, but I did not think the perception of the music itself was altered.

It makes me think of the Hungarian Suicide Song that supposedly encourages depressed people to kill themselves.
 
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cloudyday2

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It is interesting though. My wife says she feels God most acutely in music. I would assume the anhedonism of depression would extend to music, but I did not think the perception of the music itself was altered.
The song where I notice the rhythm being out-of-sync when depressed is "Astronomy" by Blue Oyster Cult.

I was just listening to it again, and the rhythms are still a bit annoying and out-of-sync to me but not as bad. It is like the period of the singing and percussion don't match. The percussion is incidentally very similar to the shamanic drumming rhythm - probably 4-7 Hz theta wave. I want to tell the singer to "shut up" and stop tromping on the drummer. LOL In the past, this song was very pleasant but it caused ear worms. Now I can't stand more than 30 seconds of it.

The drumming linked by @TheOldWays in post #9 definitely induced a meditative state for me. When I am depressed I have nausea, shakiness, dizziness, brain fog, etc. I tend to stare at the wall and just zone out. I tell myself "get up and brush your teeth", but I find that all I can muster is a little twitch and I'm still staring at the wall.

I think this might be a clue that could allow objective measurements of depression. Rather than asking people how they feel better, you can measure the spectrum of brain waves.

Also I read a book claiming that each neurotransmitter is associated with a different brain frequency. So a doctor might be able to detect relative concentrations of the various neurotransmitters by measuring the electrical frequencies of the brain. This would better inform the treatment instead of simply asking people how they feel.

Another thing I have wondered about is nicotine. Maybe smoking was helping people feel better, because some of the neurotransmitters are triggered by nicotine. Maybe the growing depression problem is related to the decreasing popularity of smoking. (I have never smoked, but in earlier generations almost everybody smoked.)

EDIT: It is also possible that brain frequencies can be induced by rhythms that are not the same frequency. I suspect that a rhythm or even a melodic cycle in the music where the period is a precise multiple of the shorter brain frequency period might induce the desired type of brain waves. Like if a pattern of drum beats is multiple of the alpha waves but not a multiple of the other types of waves, then the alpha waves might strengthen in the brain.
 
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Robban

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The song where I notice the rhythm being out-of-sync when depressed is "Astronomy" by Blue Oyster Cult.

I was just listening to it again, and the rhythms are still a bit annoying and out-of-sync to me but not as bad. It is like the period of the singing and percussion don't match. The percussion is incidentally very similar to the shamanic drumming rhythm - probably 4-7 Hz theta wave. I want to tell the singer to "shut up" and stop tromping on the drummer. LOL In the past, this song was very pleasant but it caused ear worms. Now I can't stand more than 30 seconds of it.

The drumming linked by @TheOldWays in post #9 definitely induced a meditative state for me. When I am depressed I have nausea, shakiness, dizziness, brain fog, etc. I tend to stare at the wall and just zone out. I tell myself "get up and brush your teeth", but I find that all I can muster is a little twitch and I'm still staring at the wall.

I think this might be a clue that could allow objective measurements of depression. Rather than asking people how they feel better, you can measure the spectrum of brain waves.

Also I read a book claiming that each neurotransmitter is associated with a different brain frequency. So a doctor might be able to detect relative concentrations of the various neurotransmitters by measuring the electrical frequencies of the brain. This would better inform the treatment instead of simply asking people how they feel.

Another thing I have wondered about is nicotine. Maybe smoking was helping people feel better, because some of the neurotransmitters are triggered by nicotine. Maybe the growing depression problem is related to the decreasing popularity of smoking. (I have never smoked, but in earlier generations almost everybody smoked.)

EDIT: It is also possible that brain frequencies can be induced by rhythms that are not the same frequency. I suspect that a rhythm or even a melodic cycle in the music where the period is a precise multiple of the shorter brain frequency period might induce the desired type of brain waves. Like if a pattern of drum beats is multiple of the alpha waves but not a multiple of the other types of waves, then the alpha waves might strengthen in the brain.

Sounds very complicated.

What is there to say?

Dunno.

But hope you find a light at the end of the tunnel.
 
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cloudyday2

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Just another data point. Often times (like right now) depression is like constantly losing my train of thought. When I stare at things, I am trying to remember what I was thinking. When I talk to people I sometimes pause mid sentence like some other important thought is coming to mind but there is nothing there, and then I have to struggle to remember what I was saying to the person. That is why I like forums, because typing helps me think when I am in that brain fog.
 
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Robban

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Just another data point. Often times (like right now) depression is like constantly losing my train of thought. When I stare at things, I am trying to remember what I was thinking. When I talk to people I sometimes pause mid sentence like some other important thought is coming to mind but there is nothing there, and then I have to struggle to remember what I was saying to the person. That is why I like forums, because typing helps me think when I am in that brain fog.

Ever wondered about making a career in politics?

:)
 
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cloudyday2

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Ever wondered about making a career in politics?
Hmmm???? I was thinking maybe I should be the editor for some TV news program, because they seem to be pretty scrambled and brainless. I can help scramble them even more LOL.
 
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cloudyday2

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Another weird thing I noticed: when I was trying to meditate by staring at a candle I noticed rapid random flashing of the candle left, right, left, right, ... two or three times per second. I guess that was my brain alternating between eyes.

Anybody else notice that when meditating?
 
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Robban

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Hmmm???? I was thinking maybe I should be the editor for some TV news program, because they seem to be pretty scrambled and brainless. I can help scramble them even more LOL.

Was only kidding, good to know you can take it.

Haha.
 
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TheOldWays

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Just another data point. Often times (like right now) depression is like constantly losing my train of thought. When I stare at things, I am trying to remember what I was thinking. When I talk to people I sometimes pause mid sentence like some other important thought is coming to mind but there is nothing there, and then I have to struggle to remember what I was saying to the person. That is why I like forums, because typing helps me think when I am in that brain fog.

Also consider when you forget something, let it go. The act of franticly trying to remember what your brain was doing can actually make it worse. If you can't remember just say "doesn't matter anyways" and move on. Always worked for me. Lessinging the importance of the problem can actually make the problem go away. My 2 cents! :)
 
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dlamberth

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Another weird thing I noticed: when I was trying to meditate by staring at a candle I noticed rapid random flashing of the candle left, right, left, right, ... two or three times per second. I guess that was my brain alternating between eyes.

Anybody else notice that when meditating?
I meditate a lot, never on a candle. Often though I'll breath light in various ways.
 
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Eryk

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Chuck Wild creates therapeutic music under the Liquid Mind imprint. He created it to deal with his anxiety and panic attacks, and then he shared it with the world. I love this music. Nothing quite like it in the ambient and New Age genres.
 
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The song where I notice the rhythm being out-of-sync when depressed is "Astronomy" by Blue Oyster Cult.

I was just listening to it again, and the rhythms are still a bit annoying and out-of-sync to me but not as bad. It is like the period of the singing and percussion don't match. The percussion is incidentally very similar to the shamanic drumming rhythm - probably 4-7 Hz theta wave. I want to tell the singer to "shut up" and stop tromping on the drummer. LOL In the past, this song was very pleasant but it caused ear worms. Now I can't stand more than 30 seconds of it.

The drumming linked by @TheOldWays in post #9 definitely induced a meditative state for me. When I am depressed I have nausea, shakiness, dizziness, brain fog, etc. I tend to stare at the wall and just zone out. I tell myself "get up and brush your teeth", but I find that all I can muster is a little twitch and I'm still staring at the wall.

I think this might be a clue that could allow objective measurements of depression. Rather than asking people how they feel better, you can measure the spectrum of brain waves.

Also I read a book claiming that each neurotransmitter is associated with a different brain frequency. So a doctor might be able to detect relative concentrations of the various neurotransmitters by measuring the electrical frequencies of the brain. This would better inform the treatment instead of simply asking people how they feel.

Another thing I have wondered about is nicotine. Maybe smoking was helping people feel better, because some of the neurotransmitters are triggered by nicotine. Maybe the growing depression problem is related to the decreasing popularity of smoking. (I have never smoked, but in earlier generations almost everybody smoked.)

EDIT: It is also possible that brain frequencies can be induced by rhythms that are not the same frequency. I suspect that a rhythm or even a melodic cycle in the music where the period is a precise multiple of the shorter brain frequency period might induce the desired type of brain waves. Like if a pattern of drum beats is multiple of the alpha waves but not a multiple of the other types of waves, then the alpha waves might strengthen in the brain.
Nicotinic receptors are post-synaptic, mostly in muscle motor endplates. So nicotine being taken up via smoking, has no way of reaching the synapse. Even if it could somehow, this would have to be via the body or axon of the neuron, so release would occur as it physiologically would. Long story short, Nicotine from smoking has no direct neurotransmitter action, even if in vitro Nicotine activates nicotinic receptors (hence the name - they usually function by Acetylcholine).

Brainwaves are poorly correlated with mental states though. I am sure I told you about the study in Australia where EEG monitoring of awake patients under muscle relaxation, had similar patterns to what we had assumed were anaethetised ones. It is exceedingly difficult.

Anyway, study of true depression is often marred by the fact that people that are simply unhappy, are labelled as if they have it. Neurotransmitter imbalance as the cause of depression is also not proven, based as it is mostly on the supposed efficacy of antidepressants. Irving Kitsch has cast some doubt on this, so I wouldn't get your hopes up in this regard. There are other competing theories, although not as popular or simple to explain. I wonder though, if sensory perception is altered by Depression, then I would assume a more direct effect on membrane potential in the neuron, than on neurotransmitters. I'll have to look in on this more.

Edit: Sorry, my mistake. I just looked it up in my physiology books and Nicotine does have direct neurotransmitter effects. Its effects are however mostly indirect via monoamine oxidase, dopamine and glutamate. It does not really impact nicotinic receptors on motor end-plates as I said previously, but does activate central parasympathetic nicotinic receptors. Its direct effects are therefore far more limited then its indirect ones.
 
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