Seven Days Before

jgr

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You seem to have a problem understanding and answering a simple question. I'll repeat it to help you:

Matthew 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Who are them and you in v. 4?
I'll ask my preschool grandson.

He'll have the right answer.
 
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parousia70

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>>

The events that occurred in Dan.9:26/Mt.24:3,, in 70 A.D., was the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, by general Titus and the Roman Army.

None of Dan.9:27/Mt.24:4-31 has yet taken place. It pertains to the final 3.5 years of the tribulation/Jesus Olivet Discourse. In which Jesus answered the questions His disciples asked Him about when those things were going to happen, the sign of His return, and of the end of the age. All of which is prophecy yet to take pace, not history.


Quasar92

Well, my question was simple, but I'll rephrase it for extra simplicity:

Was Luke 21:20-22 Fulfilled in and around the 70Ad destruction of Jerusalem?

Yes or No?

Here is the text:

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

You previously asserted Luke 21 is yet future and never happened in the first century.

Are you changing your mind now?
 
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Riberra

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Preterists say that he refers to the real Christ; Jesus Christ is actually the one that causes sacrifices to stop by sacrificing himself. As far as the overspreading of abominations I don't know how they explain that.
Note, i am not a preterist ... but you are in total error if you believe that Daniel 9:23-27 have not been entirely fulfilled ...If you want a prophecy made by Daniel who concern End Times >>try the prophecy about the Little Horn in Daniel 7:8-28...which is related to Revelation 13.

Bible Scholar John Gill (23 novembre 1697 -14 octobre 1771)give an excellent explanation.

Daniel 9:27 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate;

that is, the Roman people shall make the land of Judea desolate, for the overspreading of their abominations or idolatries in it. The words may be rendered, as by some, "upon the wing", the battlements of the temple, shall be the abominations,
or "idols of the desolator", or "of him that makes desolate" F15; so Bishop Lloyd; meaning either the ensigns of the Roman army, which had upon them the images of their gods or emperors; and being set up in the holy place, and sacrificed to, nothing could be a greater abomination to the Jews; or else the blood of the zealots slain on these battlements, by which the holy place was polluted; see ( Matthew 24:15 ) ( Luke 21:20 ) : even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon
the desolate;
--------------------------
En 1748, Gill reçut le grade de docteur honoraire à l'université d'Aberdeen. Il était un érudit profond et un auteur prolifique. Ses plus importants ouvrages (en anglais) sont :

The Doctrine of the Trinity Stated and Vindicated (Londres, 1731)
The Cause of God and Truth (4 tomes, 1735-1738), a retort to Daniel Whitby's Five Points
An Exposition of the New Testament (3 tomes, 1746-1748), which with his Exposition of the Old Testament (6 tomes, 1748-1763) forme son œuvre la plus grande.
A Dissertation on the Antiquity of the Hebrew Language (1767)
A Body of Doctrinal Divinity (1767)
A Body of Practical Divinity (1770).
 
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Quasar92

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Well, my question was simple, but I'll rephrase it for extra simplicity:

Was Luke 21:20-22 Fulfilled in and around the 70Ad destruction of Jerusalem?

Yes or No?

Here is the text:

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

You previously asserted Luke 21 is yet future and never happened in the first century.

Are you changing your mind now?


The answer to your question is still NO. The events of Luke 21:20-22 are part of Jesus Olivet Discourse. Those events are prophecy, pertaining to Jesus return in His second coming and of the end of the age. It is not a passage of past history that happened in 70 A.D.

As I previously posted: >>>No! Dan.9:27; Mt.24; Mk.13 Lk.21 and Rev.6 all refer to the same event, the 70th and final chapter in the disposition of Istael, the seven years of tribulation, YET TO COME. None of which is History, you try making of it!<<<


Qusar92
 
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jgr

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Not so, ...Revelation 17:8 >>>Revelation 13:6-9 >>>Daniel 7:20-22
Ten horns (kingdoms) emerging from dissolution of pagan Roman empire: Heruli, Suevi, Burgundians, Huns, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, Lombards, Franks, Anglo-Saxons

Little horn: Papal Rome

Three horns overthrown by the little horn: Heruli, Vandals, Ostrogoths

Mouth speaking great things:

Pius IX was described as "the living Christ", and "the Lamb of the Vatican".

Pius X said: "The Pope...is Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under the veil of flesh."

Pius XI, on 30 April 1922, in the Vatican throne room, said: "You know that I am the Holy Father, the representative of God on the earth, the Vicar of Christ, which means that I am God on the earth."

The Canon Law in the Gloss on the Extravaganza of John XXII, AD 1316-1334, calls the Roman pontiff "Our Lord God the Pope."

Martin V was addressed as: "The most holy and most blessed, who holds the celestial jurisdiction, who is Lord over all the earth...the anointed...the ruler of the universe, the father of kings, the Light of the World."

During the Vatican Council, 9 January 1870, it was stated: "The Pope is Christ in office, Christ in jurisdiction and power...we bow down before thy voice, O Pius, as before the voice of Christ, the God of truth; in clinging to thee, we cling to Christ."

The Roman Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas said: "There is no difference between the Pope and Jesus Christ."

Cardinal Henry Edward Manning said: "He [the Roman pope] was elevated to be, in his Divine Master's Name, King of kings and Lord of lords."

“All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17 Bellarmine (1542-1621), a professor and rector at the Jesuit Gregorian University in Rome, is generally considered to have been one of the outstanding Jesuit instructors in the history of this organization.

“The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as Kind of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art.Papa II” (Ferraris was an Italian Catholic canonist and consultor to the Holy Office in Rome.)

“We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.

Made war on and prevailed against the saints: http://jamesjpn.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/estimates-of-christians-killed-by-the-pope.doc
 
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jgr

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Well, my question was simple, but I'll rephrase it for extra simplicity:

Was Luke 21:20-22 Fulfilled in and around the 70Ad destruction of Jerusalem?

Yes or No?

Here is the text:

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

You previously asserted Luke 21 is yet future and never happened in the first century.

Are you changing your mind now?
How did you get so lucky as to get answered?

I'm still waiting.

Matthew 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Who are them and you in v. 4?
 
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Quasar92

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Note, i am not a preterist ... but you are in total error if you believe that Daniel 9:23-27 have not been entirely fulfilled ...If you want a prophecy made by Daniel who concern End Times >>try the prophecy about the Little Horn in Daniel 7:8-28...which is related to Revelation 13.

Bible Scholar John Gill (23 novembre 1697 -14 octobre 1771)give an excellent explanation.

Daniel 9:27 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate;

that is, the Roman people shall make the land of Judea desolate, for the overspreading of their abominations or idolatries in it. The words may be rendered, as by some, "upon the wing", the battlements of the temple, shall be the abominations,
or "idols of the desolator", or "of him that makes desolate" F15; so Bishop Lloyd; meaning either the ensigns of the Roman army, which had upon them the images of their gods or emperors; and being set up in the holy place, and sacrificed to, nothing could be a greater abomination to the Jews; or else the blood of the zealots slain on these battlements, by which the holy place was polluted; see ( Matthew 24:15 ) ( Luke 21:20 ) : even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon
the desolate;
--------------------------
En 1748, Gill reçut le grade de docteur honoraire à l'université d'Aberdeen. Il était un érudit profond et un auteur prolifique. Ses plus importants ouvrages (en anglais) sont :

The Doctrine of the Trinity Stated and Vindicated (Londres, 1731)
The Cause of God and Truth (4 tomes, 1735-1738), a retort to Daniel Whitby's Five Points
An Exposition of the New Testament (3 tomes, 1746-1748), which with his Exposition of the Old Testament (6 tomes, 1748-1763) forme son œuvre la plus grande.
A Dissertation on the Antiquity of the Hebrew Language (1767)
A Body of Doctrinal Divinity (1767)
A Body of Practical Divinity (1770).


FYI, I never accused you of being a preterist, but rather, stated the fact that they believe Dan.9:27 was fulfilled in 70 A.D, as well as some Amillennialists. The fact of the matter is, The first 69 weeks of Daniel, from verses 24 through 26, were fulfilled by 70 A.D. Verse 27 is prophecy, yet to be fulfilled, amplified by Jesus, in His Olivet Discourse, in Mt.24:4-31, together with the counter parts in Mk.13 and in Lk.21, as well as in Rev.6.


Quasar92
 
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Riberra

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Ten horns (kingdoms) emerging from dissolution of pagan Roman empire: Heruli, Suevi, Burgundians, Huns, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Vandals, Lombards, Franks, Anglo-Saxons

Little horn: Papal Rome

Three horns overthrown by the little horn: Heruli, Vandals, Ostrogoths

Mouth speaking great things:

Pius IX was described as "the living Christ", and "the Lamb of the Vatican".

Pius X said: "The Pope...is Jesus Christ Himself, hidden under the veil of flesh."

Pius XI, on 30 April 1922, in the Vatican throne room, said: "You know that I am the Holy Father, the representative of God on the earth, the Vicar of Christ, which means that I am God on the earth."

The Canon Law in the Gloss on the Extravaganza of John XXII, AD 1316-1334, calls the Roman pontiff "Our Lord God the Pope."

Martin V was addressed as: "The most holy and most blessed, who holds the celestial jurisdiction, who is Lord over all the earth...the anointed...the ruler of the universe, the father of kings, the Light of the World."

During the Vatican Council, 9 January 1870, it was stated: "The Pope is Christ in office, Christ in jurisdiction and power...we bow down before thy voice, O Pius, as before the voice of Christ, the God of truth; in clinging to thee, we cling to Christ."

The Roman Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas said: "There is no difference between the Pope and Jesus Christ."

Cardinal Henry Edward Manning said: "He [the Roman pope] was elevated to be, in his Divine Master's Name, King of kings and Lord of lords."

“All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17 Bellarmine (1542-1621), a professor and rector at the Jesuit Gregorian University in Rome, is generally considered to have been one of the outstanding Jesuit instructors in the history of this organization.

“The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as Kind of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art.Papa II” (Ferraris was an Italian Catholic canonist and consultor to the Holy Office in Rome.)

“We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.

Made war on and prevailed against the saints: http://jamesjpn.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/estimates-of-christians-killed-by-the-pope.doc
None of the Popes have ascended out of the Bottomless Pit....
Revelation 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the BOTTOMLESS PIT, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [they] whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.

The Pope is not the BEAST/Little Horn....but maybe a Pope one day can become the False Prophet.
Revelation 13:11-18
11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like unto lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the authority of the first beast in his sight. And he maketh the earth and them dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose death-stroke was healed.

13 And he doeth great signs, that he should even make fire to come down out of heaven upon the earth in the sight of men.

14 And he deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by reason of the signs which it was given him to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast who hath the stroke of the sword and lived.

15 And it was given [unto him] to give breath to it, [even] to the image to the breast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead; 17 and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, [even] the name of the beast or the number of his name.
 
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parousia70

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The answer to your question is still NO. The events of Luke 21:20-22 are part of Jesus Olivet Discourse. Those events are prophecy, pertaining to Jesus return in His second coming and of the end of the age. It is not a passage of past history that happened in 70 A.D.
Preposterous.
Untenable.
Unsupported.
Irresponsible.
Incorrrect.
 
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Quasar92

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Preposterous.
Untenable.
Unsupported.
Irresponsible.
Incorrrect.


Your opinion is meaningless. Let me see your Scriptural ly based proof for your view that Dan.9:27 was fulfilled in 70 A.D. You have been badly deceived by false teachers.


Quasar92
 
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Riberra

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Verse 27 is prophecy, yet to be fulfilled,

Quasar92
Do you agree that the prophecy of the 70 WEEKS mentioned in Daniel 9:23-27correspond to a time span of 490 years ?

Daniel 9:23-24
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment went forth, and I am come to tell thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore consider the matter, and understand the vision.

24 Seventy weeks ARE DECREED upon thy people and upon thy holy city,to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.

So, it can read
Daniel 9:24
490 YEARS ARE DECREED upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
to finish transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most holy.

If that is not done in the time allowed ...the Holy City and the Temple will be destroyed ....and the end shall be with a flood [of blood].
Daniel 9:26-27
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
 
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parousia70

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Your opinion is meaningless. Let me see your Scriptural ly based proof for your view that Dan.9:27 was fulfilled in 70 A.D. You have been badly deceived by false teachers.


Quasar92

Why change the subject?
Your view that Luke 21:20-22 is not about Jerusalem’s 70 AD destruction has absolutely ZERO Support from scripture, and as far as I can tell, is shared by a grand total of ZERO Christian Scholars, commentaries, or concordances, modern or historic.

You have invented a view out of thin air that exists only in the vacuum you have created to House it.
 
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jgr

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None of the Popes have ascended out of the Bottomless Pit....
Revelation 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the BOTTOMLESS PIT, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [they] whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.

The Pope is not the BEAST/Little Horn....but maybe a Pope one day can become the False Prophet.
Revelation 13:11-18
11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like unto lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the authority of the first beast in his sight. And he maketh the earth and them dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose death-stroke was healed.

13 And he doeth great signs, that he should even make fire to come down out of heaven upon the earth in the sight of men.

14 And he deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by reason of the signs which it was given him to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast who hath the stroke of the sword and lived.

15 And it was given [unto him] to give breath to it, [even] to the image to the breast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead; 17 and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, [even] the name of the beast or the number of his name.
The unanimous declaration of the Reformers was that the beast represented the papacy. The abode of a beast representing a blasphemous institution claiming to be another God and another Christ would be expected to be nowhere other than the bottomless pit.
 
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Riberra

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The unanimous declaration of the Reformers was that the beast represented the papacy. The abode of a beast representing a blasphemous institution claiming to be another God and another Christ would be expected to be nowhere other than the bottomless pit.
The Bible tell us EXACTLY who is actually locked into the bottomless pit [Revelation 9:11].... along with his "little friends" [Revelation 9] .

The who mentioned in Revelation 9:11 is the one mentioned in Revelation 17:8 who shall ascend out of the bottomless pit...

Revelation 17:8
8 The BEAST that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the BOTTOMLESS PIT, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, [they] whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.
 
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jgr

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The Bible tell us EXACTLY who is actually locked into the bottomless pit [Revelation 9:11].... along with his "little friends" [Revelation 9] .

The who is the one mentioned in Revelation 17:8
There are multiple "who's" inhabiting the bottomless pit mentioned throughout the book:

Locusts (in name only, whom I presume you mean by "little friends", although from the descriptions they may not have been too little): Revelation 9:1-3
Angel -- Abaddon/Apollyon: Revelation 9:11
Beast: Revelation 17:8
Satan: Revelation 20:2-3

No surprise to see the beast among them.
 
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Riberra

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There are multiple "who's" inhabiting the bottomless pit mentioned throughout the book:

Locusts (in name only, whom I presume you mean by "little friends", although from the descriptions they may not have been too little): Revelation 9:1-3
Angel -- Abaddon/Apollyon: Revelation 9:11
Beast: Revelation 17:8
Satan: Revelation 20:2-3

No surprise to see the beast among them.
Satan is not into the Bottomless Pit....Satan will be cast out of Heaven Revelation Revelation 12:7-9 many months after that ABADDON will have ascended out of the Bottomless Pit Revelation 9:11 ....that is Satan the Dragon who will give his power to the Beast [Revelation 13:3-8]

The Beast that the whole world shall wonder Revelation 17:8 will be Abaddon...

Can you begin to see that the Papacy beast theory does not hold water.
 
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jgr

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Satan is not into the Bottomless Pit....Satan will be cast out of Heaven Revelation Revelation 12:7-9 many months after that ABADDON will have ascended out of the Bottomless Pit Revelation 9:11 ....that is Satan the Dragon who will give his power to the beast [Abaddon]

The Beast that the whole world shall wonder will be Abaddon...

Ca you begin to see that the Papacy beast theory does not hold water.
Satan is in the pit for a thousand years (Rev. 20:2-3).
Abaddon is the angel of the pit (Rev. 9:11). There is no scripture stating that he is or will be the beast.

What doesn't hold water?
 
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Riberra

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Satan is in the pit for a thousand years (Rev. 20:2-3).
Only after the Coming of Jesus [Revelation 19]...[Revelation 20 ]Satan will be locked into the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years

Abaddon is the angel of the pit (Rev. 9:11). There is no scripture stating that he is or will be the beast.
Revelation 17:8 tell us that the BEAST will ascend out of the Bottomless Pit...

What doesn't hold water?
The theory that the Papacy is the Beast of Revelation 13 /Revelation 17:8-14 .../Little Horn of Daniel 7...
 
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