gadar perets

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A. You're making a number of presumptions about what was preached when without much basis.

The Holy Spirit had already spoken to Cornelius before Peter ever crossed his threshold. That acceptance of Christ was a slam dunk before Cornelius had even heard the gospel.
The only thing the Holy Spirit told Cornelius was to summon Peter. There is no doubt that Peter preached the Gospel to him and his household.

The Philippian jailer was baptized "within the hour" of crying, "What must I do to be saved?" based on nothing but the hymns he heard Paul and Silas singing. He hadn't gotten much doctrine by then.
A lot can be taught in an hour.

B. None of the verses you quoted explicitly say, "Jesus is God."

We can validly reason that the Son, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all One in God because scripture first defines characteristics unique to God, then identifies each of the three Persons with characteristics it has said are unique to God. We can validly reason that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct Persons (in the philosophical sense) because scripture gives each of them His own unique characteristics.

But there is no verse that explicitly says, "Jesus is God," which is why Muslims will hurl that challenge.
What you call "characteristics unique to God" are probably not unique or, if they are unique, Yeshua did not have those characteristics.
 
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Peter1000

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"Eli" means "my El". Yeshua's El and Father is YHWH. You cannot possibly have any Scriptural support for El and YHWH being two different Gods except through a distorted interpretation.
Yeshua cried out for El, not YHWH. El is the name of the God of Jesus, not YHWH. EL means God, the only God mentioned in the first chapter of Genesis. YHWH means Lord God, he is introduced in the second chapter of Genesis. YHWH was standing beside El in the first chapter of Genesis for God said, "let us" make man... But Lord God was not formally introduced until the second chapter of Genesis.

Lord God is a member of the Godhead but is in a second position to God. That is why the 'Lord' designation, which is different than the 'God' designation. The HS is also in the Godhead, but is in a third position.
Jesus is Lord God, the Son of El. El, Lord God, HS make up the Godhead.
 
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gadar perets

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Yeshua cried out for El, not YHWH. El is the name of the God of Jesus, not YHWH. EL means God, the only God mentioned in the first chapter of Genesis. YHWH means Lord God, he is introduced in the second chapter of Genesis. YHWH was standing beside El in the first chapter of Genesis for God said, "let us" make man... But Lord God was not formally introduced until the second chapter of Genesis.

Lord God is a member of the Godhead but is in a second position to God. That is why the 'Lord' designation, which is different than the 'God' designation. The HS is also in the Godhead, but is in a third position.
Jesus is Lord God, the Son of El. El, Lord God, HS make up the Godhead.
Here are six verses with Strong's numbers clearly stating that YHWH (the LORD - H3068) is El (H410).

Gen_14:22 And AbramH87 saidH559 toH413 the kingH4428 of Sodom,H5467 I have lift upH7311 mine handH3027 untoH413 the LORD,H3068 the most highH5945 God,H410 the possessorH7069 of heavenH8064 and earth,H776

Gen_17:1 And when AbramH87 wasH1961 ninetyH8673 yearsH8141 oldH1121 and nine,H8672 the LORDH3068 appearedH7200 toH413 Abram,H87 and saidH559 untoH413 him, IH589 am the AlmightyH7706 God;H410 walkH1980 beforeH6440 me, and beH1961 thou perfect.H8549

Gen_21:33 And Abraham plantedH5193 a groveH815 in Beersheba,H884 and calledH7121 thereH8033 on the nameH8034 of the LORD,H3068 the everlastingH5769 God.H410

Exo_34:14 ForH3588 thou shalt worshipH7812 noH3808 otherH312 god:H410 forH3588 the LORD,H3068 whose nameH8034 is Jealous,H7067 is a jealousH7067 God:H410

2Sa_22:32 ForH3588 whoH4310 is God,H410 saveH4480 H1107 the LORD?H3068 and whoH4310 is a rock,H6697 saveH4480 H1107 our God?H430

Isa_42:5 ThusH3541 saithH559 GodH410 the LORD,H3068 he that createdH1254 the heavens,H8064 and stretched them out;H5186 he that spread forthH7554 the earth,H776 and that which cometh outH6631 of it; he that givethH5414 breathH5397 unto the peopleH5971 uponH5921 it, and spiritH7307 to them that walkH1980 therein:
There are about 49 more. How many more do you need to finally realize that YHWH (the LORD) is El? Isaiah 42:5 is especially instructive to show that the creator spoken of in Genesis 1 is YHWH.
 
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Peter1000

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Here are six verses with Strong's numbers clearly stating that YHWH (the LORD - H3068) is El (H410).

Gen_14:22 And AbramH87 saidH559 toH413 the kingH4428 of Sodom,H5467 I have lift upH7311 mine handH3027 untoH413 the LORD,H3068 the most highH5945 God,H410 the possessorH7069 of heavenH8064 and earth,H776

Gen_17:1 And when AbramH87 wasH1961 ninetyH8673 yearsH8141 oldH1121 and nine,H8672 the LORDH3068 appearedH7200 toH413 Abram,H87 and saidH559 untoH413 him, IH589 am the AlmightyH7706 God;H410 walkH1980 beforeH6440 me, and beH1961 thou perfect.H8549

Gen_21:33 And Abraham plantedH5193 a groveH815 in Beersheba,H884 and calledH7121 thereH8033 on the nameH8034 of the LORD,H3068 the everlastingH5769 God.H410

Exo_34:14 ForH3588 thou shalt worshipH7812 noH3808 otherH312 god:H410 forH3588 the LORD,H3068 whose nameH8034 is Jealous,H7067 is a jealousH7067 God:H410

2Sa_22:32 ForH3588 whoH4310 is God,H410 saveH4480 H1107 the LORD?H3068 and whoH4310 is a rock,H6697 saveH4480 H1107 our God?H430

Isa_42:5 ThusH3541 saithH559 GodH410 the LORD,H3068 he that createdH1254 the heavens,H8064 and stretched them out;H5186 he that spread forthH7554 the earth,H776 and that which cometh outH6631 of it; he that givethH5414 breathH5397 unto the peopleH5971 uponH5921 it, and spiritH7307 .to them that walkH1980 therein:
There are about 49 more. How many more do you need to finally realize that YHWH (the LORD) is El? Isaiah 42:5 is especially instructive to show that the creator spoken of in Genesis 1 is YHWH.
I can not be convinced. God/El is a higher entity than the subordinate
Lord God/YHWH Elohim. They cannot be the same person because 1 is subordinate to the other.

YHWH is the God of the OT. But he is not El. El created everything spiritually in Genesis 1, and then El gave YHWH the power and authority to create everything physically in
Genesis 2. El also gave YHWH the power and authority to manage the creation and connect with it and advise the prophets, etc. until his incarnation and earthly ministration. It is YHWH who was incarnated and became Jesus. Jesus cried out to El at the cross, he did not cry out to YHWH because he is YHWH.
 
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gadar perets

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I can not be convinced. God/El is a higher entity than the subordinate
Lord God/YHWH Elohim. They cannot be the same person because 1 is subordinate to the other.
:ahah: Show me one verse where YHWH is subordinate to El.
 
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Peter1000

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:ahah: Show me one verse where YHWH is subordinate to El.
Just the name says YHWH is subordinate to El. In secular setting, you call the head of the country a king. You call his advisors and underlings, lords and ladies. The desigantion lord is subordinate to the king.

Same as Lord God is subordinate to God. Why have 2 names, 1 God, and 1 Lord God. It makes no sense and is very confusing. The translators did not know the relationship either.
 
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gadar perets

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Just the name says YHWH is subordinate to El. In secular setting, you call the head of the country a king. You call his advisors and underlings, lords and ladies. The desigantion lord is subordinate to the king.

Same as Lord God is subordinate to God. Why have 2 names, 1 God, and 1 Lord God. It makes no sense and is very confusing. The translators did not know the relationship either.
"YHWH" does not mean "Lord". That is one of the biggest blunders translators have made. Our Creator's name is YHWH. His title is El or Elohim. YHWH is the King of all creation. He is also El above all elohim.

Psalm 95:3 For YHWH is a great El, and a great King above all elohim.​
 
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Peter1000

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"YHWH" does not mean "Lord". That is one of the biggest blunders translators have made. Our Creator's name is YHWH. His title is El or Elohim. YHWH is the King of all creation. He is also El above all elohim.

Psalm 95:3 For YHWH is a great El, and a great King above all elohim.​
Well here you have the confusion, you have YHWH, El, and Elohim in the same 1 sentence scripture.

One way to reconcile is to say that YHWH and EL and Elohim are the same person.

Another way to reconcile is to know that the translators blundered and do not know the relationship between Elohim and YHWH. For instance: YHWH is a great God, but he is not EL or Elohim. He is YHWH, the Lord, who is a great God.

Jesus is also designated as 'the Lord'. El = God, Elohim = Gods,
YHWH = Lord God, Jesus = Lord. Could Jesus be the incarnated YHWH the great God? Boy does that fit. Yes. Besides our prophets who have met Jesus tell us that it is YHWH and Jesus that are the same person. I believe them.
 
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gadar perets

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Well here you have the confusion, you have YHWH, El, and Elohim in the same 1 sentence scripture.

One way to reconcile is to say that YHWH and EL and Elohim are the same person.
You seem to be the only one confused. It is not "Elohim", but "elohim".

Psalm 95:3 For YHWH is a great El, and a great King above all elohim.
It is obvious that "elohim" refers to lesser beings that King YHWH is superior to.

Another way to reconcile is to know that the translators blundered and do not know the relationship between Elohim and YHWH. For instance: YHWH is a great God, but he is not EL or Elohim. He is YHWH, the Lord, who is a great God.
This is not a translator problem. The Hebrew clearly uses "YHWH", "El" and "elohim". The translators understood that "elohim" refers to lesser beings than the one true God/El YHWH. That is why they translated "elohim" as "gods". It is you that are blundering.

Jesus is also designated as 'the Lord'.
Correct. He is "the Lord", not "the LORD".

El = God, Elohim = Gods,
"Elohim" = "God", not "Gods". If you understood Hebrew you would know that even though "Elohim" is plural, it is not a plural of number (as in more than one God), but plural in quality (plural of majesty). That is why "Elohim" is used with singular pronouns as in the following verse.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God [Elohim] ended his work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all his work which He had made.​

We don't see plural pronouns like "they" used because Elohim is a singular being (monotheism).

YHWH = Lord God, Jesus = Lord.
YHWH = "the LORD", not "Lord God". "Lord God" = "Adonai Elohim".

Could Jesus be the incarnated YHWH the great God? Boy does that fit. Yes. Besides our prophets who have met Jesus tell us that it is YHWH and Jesus that are the same person. I believe them.
Absolutely untrue. If your Mormon prophets said Jesus is YHWH incarnate, they are false prophets. However, I would be interested to see that quote and the reference.
 
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Peter1000

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You seem to be the only one confused. It is not "Elohim", but "elohim".
I am not confused, I feel very comfortable with the relationship between Elohim, El, YHWH, and Jesus.

It is obvious that "elohim" refers to lesser beings that King YHWH is superior to.
It is interesting that you would use beings instead of gods.

Correct. He is "the Lord", not "the LORD".
Who is the Lord and who is the other Lord in Psalms 110:1?
Who is the Lord and who is the other Lord in Genesis 19:24?

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God [Elohim] ended his work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all his work which He had made.​

We don't see plural pronouns like "they" used because Elohim is a singular being (monotheism).

You say Elohim is a singular being? From you I learned that Elohim was a title? What is it, being, or title?

Who was with Elohim in Genesis 1:26? Since I know there are 2 Lords from Psalms 110:1 and Genesis 19:24, I feel very comfortable in saying that YHWH/The Lord God (introduced in Genesis chapter 2), was with Elohim in Genesis 1:26, and there could be others too because it was 'us' and does not let us know how many were actually present, for instance, I could say 10 others were present and nobody could argue with me. But I really think there was 3 present. (1) Elohim/God, the spirit creator of Genesis 1,
(2)Yahweh Elohim/the Lord God, the physical creator of Genesis 2, and (3) the HS.

Absolutely untrue. If your Mormon prophets said Jesus is YHWH incarnate, they are false prophets. However, I would be interested to see that quote and the reference.

As time goes on you will find the Mormon prophets words will become more valuable as more information is uncovered about the bible. It takes a prophet to understand clearly what the prophets of the bible were trying to say.
 
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gadar perets

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It is interesting that you would use beings instead of gods.
I used "beings" because "elohim" can refer to angels or men, neither of which are "gods".

Who is the Lord and who is the other Lord in Psalms 110:1?
The LORD [YHWH - Yeshua's Father] said unto my Lord [adoni - David's Lord, Yeshua], Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Who is the Lord and who is the other Lord in Genesis 19:24?
Gen 19:24 Then the LORD [YHWH] rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD [YHWH] out of heaven;​

Both "LORD"s refer to Father YHWH. This is the result of a peculiarity in Hebrew. It is similar to 1 Kings 8:1 in which we see two Solomons;

Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto king Solomon in Jerusalem, that they might bring up the ark of the covenant of YHWH out of the city of David, which is Zion.​

You say Elohim is a singular being? From you I learned that Elohim was a title? What is it, being, or title?
Elohim is a singular being that bears the name YHWH and the title Elohim.

Who was with Elohim in Genesis 1:26? Since I know there are 2 Lords from Psalms 110:1 and Genesis 19:24, I feel very comfortable in saying that YHWH/The Lord God (introduced in Genesis chapter 2), was with Elohim in Genesis 1:26, and there could be others too because it was 'us' and does not let us know how many were actually present, for instance, I could say 10 others were present and nobody could argue with me. But I really think there was 3 present. (1) Elohim/God, the spirit creator of Genesis 1,
(2)Yahweh Elohim/the Lord God, the physical creator of Genesis 2, and (3) the HS.
You are assuming YHWH was present with Elohim because you have been taught falsely that they are two different beings. I believe Elohim was talking to the heavenly host. According to Job 38:4-7, "the sons of Elohim shouted for joy" when YHWH created the earth. This doubtless refers to the angels who were also present at the creation of man. YHWH could be speaking to them, in Genesis 1:26, using the plural of majesty. An example of this is found in Ezra 4:18; "The letter which ye sent unto us hath been plainly read before me." In this case, a letter was written strictly to King Artaxerxes and no one else (vs. 11). Yet the King speaks as though it was written to others as well. Another example would be the Queen of England saying, "We, the Queen of England, . . ." It can also be understood in the sense of someone saying, "Let us drive to the lake for a picnic," and yet, only the speaker does the driving. To believe Elohim is talking to YHWH or Yeshua is an assumption. It is reading into the text something that it does not say.

As time goes on you will find the Mormon prophets words will become more valuable as more information is uncovered about the bible. It takes a prophet to understand clearly what the prophets of the bible were trying to say.
You have not given me the reference I asked for. How do I know you even interpreted your prophets words correctly?
 
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Peter1000

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I used "beings" because "elohim" can refer to angels or men, neither of which are "gods".

It is a given that YHWH or Elohim or EL are superior to any human, therefore when it is using 'elohim' is has to be referring to other gods, more powerful than humans, at least in this context.

The LORD [YHWH - Yeshua's Father] said unto my Lord [adoni - David's Lord, Yeshua], Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

You seem to have the emphasis turned around from what the scripture says.
See Psalms 110:1
Psalm 110:1King James Version (KJV)
110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (actually the scripture uses a small font for 'The Lord', and a larger font for 'my Lord'. What's with that?

The scripture says 'The Lord' (smaller font) said unto 'my Lord' (larger font).
You capitalize the entire word LORD, 'The LORD' and you only capitalize the first letter of my Lord, 'my Lord'. So what's with that?
This scripture also testifies that Jesus existed before the creation of the world and sat with his God before coming to earth and sat with Him after the resurrection.

Both "LORD"s refer to Father YHWH. This is the result of a peculiarity in Hebrew. It is similar to 1 Kings 8:1 in which we see two Solomons;

Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto king Solomon in Jerusalem, that they might bring up the ark of the covenant of YHWH out of the city of David, which is Zion.​

It is quite clear that Solomon is in Jerusalem assembling the elders of Israel, even with a supposed Hebrew peculiarity. And we know there are not 2 Solomons.

However, in Genesis 19:24 it is not so clear because 'the Lord' has just finished talking to Lot and told him to scurry off to Zoar because right now I am going to rain fire onto S & G. So Lot gets to Zoar and 'the Lord' (who is on the earth) rains down fire from 'the Lord' out of heaven.
IOW it is clear that 1 Lord is on the earth and another Lord is in heaven.
It is clear to me that there are 2 Lords. I know there are not 2 Solomons.

Elohim is a singular being that bears the name YHWH and the title Elohim.

In your zest to worship the 1 God you have totally ignored that the name Elohim is a plural name, not a singular name. It should be translated Gods, but the translators did not have the nerve or the belief to translate Elohim how it should be translated, in stead they went with singular God.

In Mormonism there is Elohim = Gods. There is El = God
There is Yahweh Elohim = Lord God. There is Jesus = Lord God.
It is our belief that there was a council of Gods (Elohim) that planned the creation of the universe, and then 1 of the Elohim, took charge, but with the support of the Elohim, created everything in the spirit (Genesis 1). The name of the Elohim that took charge is El. El then gave power and authority to His spirit son, Yahweh Elohim to create the physical universe (Genesis 2) and to eventually come down to this creation and save all men from their sins. Yahweh Elohim was named Jesus during his earthly mission. At the end of the mission Jesus took his place on the right hand of El which he had before the earth was created, and awaits his second coming.

You are assuming YHWH was present with Elohim because you have been taught falsely that they are two different beings. I believe Elohim was talking to the heavenly host. According to Job 38:4-7, "the sons of Elohim shouted for joy" when YHWH created the earth. This doubtless refers to the angels who were also present at the creation of man. YHWH could be speaking to them, in Genesis 1:26, using the plural of majesty. An example of this is found in Ezra 4:18; "The letter which ye sent unto us hath been plainly read before me." In this case, a letter was written strictly to King Artaxerxes and no one else (vs. 11). Yet the King speaks as though it was written to others as well. Another example would be the Queen of England saying, "We, the Queen of England, . . ." It can also be understood in the sense of someone saying, "Let us drive to the lake for a picnic," and yet, only the speaker does the driving. To believe Elohim is talking to YHWH or Yeshua is an assumption. It is reading into the text something that it does not say.

You can believe what you want about who was the 'us' in Genesis 1:26. We believe that there was at least Elohim, Yahweh Elohim, and the HS. Hard to argue either way.

Job 38:4-7 is the very scripture that Mormons use to defend our position that God had spirit sons before the creation and they shouted for joy because they were going to have an opportunity to experience mortality and progress in their development. That is the reason they shouted for joy, not because God was creating His 10,000,000,000,000,000,000th planet, but because He was creating a special earth for them, his sons (and daughters).

Your plural kings and we's is just a reflection from the real deal, He was talking to real beings like himself, and since we know there was a Godhead, we know that He was at least talking to 2 others, and probably more.
 
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gadar perets

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It is a given that YHWH or Elohim or EL are superior to any human, therefore when it is using 'elohim' is has to be referring to other gods, more powerful than humans, at least in this context.
Not so. There are NO elohim that are gods for there is only one God, YHWH. The use of "elohim" in Psalm 95:3 does not limit them to beings that are superior to humans. YHWH is King over all elohim whether they are superior to humans or humans themselves as in Psalm 82:6. Also, angels are elohim and are, at the moment, superior to humans, but angels are NOT gods.

You seem to have the emphasis turned around from what the scripture says.
See Psalms 110:1
Psalm 110:1King James Version (KJV)
110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (actually the scripture uses a small font for 'The Lord', and a larger font for 'my Lord'. What's with that?

The scripture says 'The Lord' (smaller font) said unto 'my Lord' (larger font).
You capitalize the entire word LORD, 'The LORD' and you only capitalize the first letter of my Lord, 'my Lord'. So what's with that?
From eSword;

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. KJV

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet." NASB

Psa 110:1 לדודH1732 of David. מזמורH4210 A Psalm נאםH5002 said יהוהH3068 The LORD לאדניH113 unto my Lord, שׁבH3427 Sit לימיניH3225 thou at my right hand, עדH5704 until אשׁיתH7896 I make איביךH341 thine enemies הדםH1916 thy footstool. לרגליך׃H7272 thy footstool. Hebrew Interlinear​

You need to learn some basic Hebrew to understand the truth of Psalm 110:1 and stop relying on faulty translations.

This scripture also testifies that Jesus existed before the creation of the world and sat with his God before coming to earth and sat with Him after the resurrection.
The verse says nothing about Yeshua's supposed preexistence. It is a prophetic utterance concerning words relating to Yeshua's resurrection/ascension.

It is quite clear that Solomon is in Jerusalem assembling the elders of Israel, even with a supposed Hebrew peculiarity. And we know there are not 2 Solomons.
If that is so, it is also quite clear that YHWH is in heaven, not on earth, as He rains down fire and brimstone. And we know there are not two YHWHs.

However, in Genesis 19:24 it is not so clear because 'the Lord' has just finished talking to Lot and told him to scurry off to Zoar because right now I am going to rain fire onto S & G. So Lot gets to Zoar and 'the Lord' (who is on the earth) rains down fire from 'the Lord' out of heaven.
IOW it is clear that 1 Lord is on the earth and another Lord is in heaven.
It is clear to me that there are 2 Lords. I know there are not 2 Solomons.
Those are the words of Moses as he records the account under inspiration of the Holy Spirit. There are at least eight verses that teach us there is only one YHWH. If you choose to believe there are two or more YHWHs, then reconcile those other verses with your belief. Here is one verse;

"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am YHWH, and there is none else" ( Isaiah 45:6 )​

In your zest to worship the 1 God you have totally ignored that the name Elohim is a plural name, not a singular name. It should be translated Gods, but the translators did not have the nerve or the belief to translate Elohim how it should be translated, in stead they went with singular God.
As I said, when used of YHWH, it is singular as is evidenced by the singular verbs and pronouns used with it. Learn basic Hebrew.

In Mormonism there is Elohim = Gods. There is El = God
There is Yahweh Elohim = Lord God. There is Jesus = Lord God.
It is our belief that there was a council of Gods (Elohim) that planned the creation of the universe, and then 1 of the Elohim, took charge, but with the support of the Elohim, created everything in the spirit (Genesis 1). The name of the Elohim that took charge is El. El then gave power and authority to His spirit son, Yahweh Elohim to create the physical universe (Genesis 2) and to eventually come down to this creation and save all men from their sins. Yahweh Elohim was named Jesus during his earthly mission. At the end of the mission Jesus took his place on the right hand of El which he had before the earth was created, and awaits his second coming.
Which is why I am not a Mormon, nor will I ever become one.

Job 38:4-7 is the very scripture that Mormons use to defend our position that God had spirit sons before the creation and they shouted for joy because they were going to have an opportunity to experience mortality and progress in their development. That is the reason they shouted for joy, not because God was creating His 10,000,000,000,000,000,000th planet, but because He was creating a special earth for them, his sons (and daughters).
More reasons to never become a Mormon.
 
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Peter1000

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Not so. There are NO elohim that are gods for there is only one God, YHWH. The use of "elohim" in Psalm 95:3 does not limit them to beings that are superior to humans. YHWH is King over all elohim whether they are superior to humans or humans themselves as in Psalm 82:6. Also, angels are elohim and are, at the moment, superior to humans, but angels are NOT gods.

Moses used the name 'Elohim' in the first line of the OT. You have for 4,000 years tried with all our might to figure out why he used this plural word for God, which should be translated Gods (when obviously there was only 1 God, not Gods), and you have worked with all your might on how to sidestep this word as insignificant.

For those that are not caught up in your sophistry and deflection, we believe that Moses used exactly the right word. Elohim = Gods, El = God,
YHWH = Lord God, Jesus = Lord. In the Godhead, El is supreme, YHWH is second (just like 'Lord God' would indicate), and the HS is third. There are 3 in the Godhead, which would vindicate Moses using the name Elohim.

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. KJV

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet." NASB

Psa 110:1 לדודH1732 of David. מזמורH4210 A Psalm נאםH5002 said יהוהH3068 The LORD לאדניH113 unto my Lord, שׁבH3427 Sit לימיניH3225 thou at my right hand, עדH5704 until אשׁיתH7896 I make איביךH341 thine enemies הדםH1916 thy footstool. לרגליך׃H7272 thy footstool. Hebrew Interlinear​

You need to learn some basic Hebrew to understand the truth of Psalm 110:1 and stop relying on faulty translations.

This is said in OT times, so was Yeshua with God at that time? If the LORD said to my Lord to sit on his right side. Then YHWH or Elohim must have been talking to Yeshua at that time, before Yeshua was born of Mary. Right?

It seems some common sense is needed as much as a learning of Hebrewisms, which can be different for every person on the planet, according to their religious agenda.

If that is so, it is also quite clear that YHWH is in heaven, not on earth, as He rains down fire and brimstone. And we know there are not two YHWHs.

That might be clear except the Lord on earth just had a face to face discussion with Lot and ushered him into Zoar and then came the rain of fire. In order to get the Lord from earth into the heavens to rain fire, you would have to rely on some form of magic act. Since neither Lords rely on magic, the common sense theme would be that the Lord on earth called down fire from the Lord in heaven. 2 Lords. Actually Elohim called down fire from YHWH in heaven, or YHWH called down fire from Elohim in heaven. Since the Lord on earth, ate at lunch with Abraham, I am going with Elohim on the earth since He has a body of flesh and bone. YHWH would have been the fire thrower.

Those are the words of Moses as he records the account under inspiration of the Holy Spirit. There are at least eight verses that teach us there is only one YHWH. If you choose to believe there are two or more YHWHs, then reconcile those other verses with your belief. Here is one verse;

"That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am YHWH, and there is none else" ( Isaiah 45:6 )​

So you have reconciled these scriptures with Elohim, but eliminating Elohim as a plural name, which it profoundly is. Over 4,000 years you have learned how to ignore the name Elohim, so you can concentrate on the 1 God.

Mormons reconcile 3 Gods that do exist by knowing that these 3 Gods act with such unison and perfected purpose that it is as if They are 1 God. Because of Their unity, any 1 of them can make these statments that there is no other God beside me or before or after me. We are 3 Gods in 1 Godhead in perfect unity. That reconciliation accounts for Elohim and the 1 God.

Another reconciliation is made by Paul, here are his words:
1 Corinthians 8:5-6King James Version (KJV)
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Mormons also believe there are Lords many and gods many, but to us there is but 1 God. Elohim is the key name to that doctrine.

As I said, when used of YHWH, it is singular as is evidenced by the singular verbs and pronouns used with it. Learn basic Hebrew.

If there is a seeming singular use for Elohim, it is referring to the singular 'Council of the Gods'. When it is in the plural as in Genesis 1:26 and others, it refers to Gods. Let 'us' make man...... The Mormon position on the word 'us' is as strong as any position you can put forward.

Which is why I am not a Mormon, nor will I ever become one.

  • The Mormon position on 'the sons of God' in Job is as strong a position that you can can come up with. To us it is proof that God had sons before the earth was created. It is pretty clear. So whether you become a Mormon or not, there is only 1 religion that has a doctrine of a pre-mortal existence, and that is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and every year that position becomes stronger as other information is dug up and found from around the world, and OT and NT scriptures are clearified and the debate turns on new information. Just remember we are the only church that believes in the pre-mortal existence of the spirits of men, who are the 'sons of God' declared by Job.
 
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Proud Pagan

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Whether individually you are strong or not, there are many innocent christians getting converted to the wrong paths, since many believers as christians not properly answering to that exact question.

Yes thats right , you seriously owe an explantion to these -

God cannot be tempted. James 1:13 Yet Jesus was tempted.
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. John 20:17
As he was dying, Jesus asked God why he had foresaken him. Can God forsake himself? Mark 15:34
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5
In fact, John quotes Jesus as saying: “...the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28). And Paul declares that the head of every woman is her husband, the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God (see 1 Corinthians 11:3).
For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God. Peter said: “God raised up his servant...” (Acts 3:26). The title servant refers to Jesus. This is clear from a previous passage where Peter declared: “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.” (Acts 3:13).
In Acts 4:24 we are told that the believers prayed to God saying: “...they raised their voices together in prayer to God. ‘Sovereign Lord,’ they said, ‘you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.’” It is clear that the one they were praying to was not Jesus, because, two verses later, they referred to Jesus as “...your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.” (Acts 4:27).

If Jesus was God, his disciples should have said this clearly. Instead, they kept preaching that Jesus was God’s Christ. We are told in Acts: “Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.” (Acts 5:42).

The Greek word “Christ” is a human title. It means “Anointed.” If Jesus was God, why would the disciples continually refer to him with human titles like servant and Christ of God, and consistently use the title God for the one who raised Jesus? Did they fear men? No! They boldly preached the truth fearing neither imprisonment nor death. When they faced opposition from the authorities, Peter declared: “We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus...” (Acts 5:29-30).

“‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important for you?’ ‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’” (Mark 12:28-30).Notice that Jesus was quoting the first commandment from the book of Deuteronomy 6:4-5
 
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gadar perets

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The Greek word “Christ” is a human title. It means “Anointed.” If Jesus was God, why would the disciples continually refer to him with human titles like servant and Christ of God, and consistently use the title God for the one who raised Jesus? Did they fear men? No! They boldly preached the truth fearing neither imprisonment nor death. When they faced opposition from the authorities, Peter declared: “We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus...” (Acts 5:29-30).
Your raised many points that Christians wrestle with as they try to defend the trinity doctrine.

What I don't understand is how you can say above that, "They boldly preached the truth fearing neither imprisonment nor death." If they were preaching the truth, why are you a "Proud Pagan" and a Hindu? I can understand you not becoming a Christian because of these issues, but one can be a believer in Messiah Yeshua (Jesus) without being a Christian.
 
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Proud Pagan

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If they were preaching the truth, why are you a "Proud Pagan" and a Hindu?

For them believing in unseen could be the truth . I dont consider it a truth .

can understand you not becoming a Christian because of these issues, but one can be a believer in Messiah Yeshua (Jesus) without being a Christian.

> Virgin birth is not validated .
> Trinity is not validated .

Can Christian Scholar Explain ?
My thread should be a 30 min read .
 
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Alexpro

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Yes, Jesus claimed to be God John 8:58 says:


"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

He also never denied worship from anyone. So your answer to these people can be "Yes, in plain black and white Jesus claimed to be the God of the Old Testament. And he openly accepted worship so he should be worshiped."
JESUS IS GOD JUST READ REVELATIONS. SOME PEOPLE GET MAD WHEN YOU REFER TO SCRIPTURE. THEY EVEN DELETED ONE OF MY POSTS. REAL CHRISTIANS GET PERSUCUTED EVERY WHERE EVEN IN THE CHURCH.

Revelation
Chapter 22:13-16

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
JESUS IS GOD JUST READ REVELATIONS. SOME PEOPLE GET MAD WHEN YOU REFER TO SCRIPTURE. THEY EVEN DELETED ONE OF MY POSTS. REAL CHRISTIANS GET PERSUCUTED EVERY WHERE EVEN IN THE CHURCH.

Revelation
Chapter 22:13-16

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
 
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Alexpro

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JESUS IS GOD JUST READ REVELATIONS. SOME PEOPLE GET MAD WHEN YOU REFER TO SCRIPTURE. THEY EVEN DELETED ONE OF MY POSTS. REAL CHRISTIANS GET PERSECUTED EVERY WHERE EVEN IN THE CHURCH.

Revelation
Chapter 22:13-16

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
 
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Proud Pagan

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JESUS IS GOD JUST READ REVELATIONS.

Ok lets check them out

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Where does it says Jesus is God ? alpha and omega are just titles.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

This is testimony of jesus . Nowhere it says Jesus is God


16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Mark reader ! "I" "Jesus" have sent .... Wherein did he say I , The god jesus / son of God jesus sent ???
 
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