Could Elijah be there?

One Of The Elect · Oct 4, 2017

Hmm? Curious???

visionary · Oct 4, 2017

One Of The Elect said:
This could be a correct interpretation. I see the great and dreadful day as the second coming. It is great for the believers and dreadful for those left upon the earth after the dead rise first and those left alive are caught up to the heavens to meet the Lord and His angels , this will happen with the voice of the arch angel and with the trumpet of Tekiah Gedolah the Voice of Yeshua . To me Elijah did make everything straight already, with the establishment of baptism which prepares the way for the Lord in our souls. I guess I just have a different idea of who the witnesses are.

Yeshua used it to present the idea that John the Baptist is Elijah, in spirit. But that is only half the prophecy because with the first coming, it was not the "dreadful day".

One Of The Elect · Oct 4, 2017

visionary said:
Yeshua used it to present the idea that John the Baptist is Elijah, in spirit. But that is only half the prophecy because with the first coming, it was not the "dreadful day".

The spirit in him was the Holy Spirit which he received in the womb of Elisabeth when Miriam ( Mary ) visited her and power went out through Miriam from Yeshua's presents in her womb. John from his mother's womb it is written was filled with the Holy Spirit. And Christ Himself said of John the Baptist no man born of woman is greater than John the Baptist. Matthew 11:11 truly, I say to you among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Luke 1;39 -45 tells when he and his mother received the Holy Spirit, it was in Elisabeth 6th month. So, from his mothers womb he was filled with the Holy Spirit.
And John worried that it was him who needed to be baptized by Christ. Christ already baptized him in his mother's womb.

One Of The Elect · Oct 4, 2017

One Of The Elect said:
The spirit in him was the Holy Spirit which he received in the womb of Elisabeth when Miriam ( Mary ) visited her and power went out through Miriam from Yeshua's presents in her womb. John from his mother's womb it is written was filled with the Holy Spirit. And Christ Himself said of John the Baptist no man born of woman is greater than John the Baptist. Matthew 11:11 truly, I say to you among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Luke 1;39 -45 tells when he and his mother received the Holy Spirit, it was in Elisabeth 6th month. So, from his mothers womb he was filled with the Holy Spirit.
And John worried that it was him who needed to be baptized by Christ. Christ already baptized him in his mother's womb.

John the Baptist was Elijah.

chunkofcoal · Oct 16, 2017

Still pondering Elijah if anyone would like to ponder with me.

Just thinking aloud...
Elisha said to Elijah:
"And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me." (2Kings 2:9b)
Elisha wouldn't have asked Elijah for something that Elijah didn't have. So Elijah had more than one portion of Spirit?
"Double portion" is "pi shenayim" - which can be translated as "double portion" or "two-thirds" - as it is in this scripture -
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

Yeshua recognized John as Elijah.

And:
Luk 1:11-20 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. (12) And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. (13) But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (14) And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. (15) For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. (16) And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. (17) And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. (18) And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years. (19) And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings. (20) And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

But John didn't recognize himself as Elijah.
Joh 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

So Elijah had more than one portion of Spirit?

So Elijah did come, and Elijah will come -
Mat 17:10-13 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? (11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. (12) But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. (13) Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

So Yeshua recognized John as Elijah, Yeshua being who He is, but maybe it is also something along these lines - "she arose before one could know another..." (Ruth 3:14)?

Hmm....

Laureate · Oct 19, 2017

In deed John the Baptist was Elijah, as Y'shua said, why would you receive someone who comes in their own name?

Malachi reads, זכר Remember-Commemorate the Torah...Behold I will send you the Prophet Elijah...
And thus John the Baptist was born on Shavuot when the Torah received by Moshe is Commemorated.

John saw himself as a resurrected Abvraham who was fully capable of raising up children from his Own Stones-(testi), for he indeed saw the day of Y'shua, (as H'mesʰiakʰ declared) and was Glad, jumping and Rejoicing in the womb (according to Matthew).

As for John's denial, even Y'shua said, Abvraham did not tell you the truth.
Yet, according to Y'shua's own testimony (of all those born of a woman), John was Greater than even Y'shua who was born of a Woman, thus it is written, '...He must increase and I must decrease...', for he who has is given more, and he who does not have, has what they (apparently are failing to acknowledge) taken from them, and it is given unto those who do (apparently acknowledge what they) have.

Thus, John's denial was a means (perhaps the only means) for John to transfer his Spirit unto the Son, who by the way, Received Ruakʰ H'kodesʰ when John baptized him, (for he alone knew who was actually baptizing him).

According to Y'shua, the Torah constitutes the prophets from Abvraham unto John, yet we are told (and I have no doubt), The First and the Last are the same, thus John was not only Elijah, he was/is Father Abvraham who is expected to turn the hearts of the children to the (resurrected) forefathers.

For the hour shall come As It Is Now, when the dead shall rise from their graves...
Thus the first visitation was a resurrection, just as we are Now resurrected again for the second advent.

In Ezekiel 36 Elohéyîm talks about how He will Sprinkle clean water on those who return to the land of Israel from the diaspora.

When John proclaimed to be the Voice in the Wilderness, he was proclaiming to be the Comforter of that prophecy, the same Comforter is mentioned in Isaiah 51 and is Identified as Abvraham, saying, You who follow after Righteousness (Abvraham's trade mark, if you will), you who seek (Î)yéhûʷəʰ.....Look unto Abvraham Your Father...for (Î)yéhûʷəʰ shall Comfort Zion...My Righteousness (I.e., Abvraham) is Near, My Salvation (I.e., Y'shua) is sent out...I, even I am he who Comforts you...

And Isaiah 9:14 does not pertain to Y'shua but John/Elijah (< whose shortened name אליה also translates [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-tail (of a lamb);
Therefore (Î)yéhûʷəʰ will Cut off from Israel Head and Tail (as in First and Last, the Head is also the) Branch and Rush, in one day.
The Ancient and Honorable, he is the Head, and the Prophet that teaches Lies (for one who stands in disbelief of a true prophet makes him out to be a liar, yet) he is the Tail.

These are both one in the same person, as with the First and Last.

There is so much more scriptural evidence to support this, I can keep going if you like...

Laureate · Oct 19, 2017

As for the Two Witnesses in Revelations, they are the same two witnesses from the first advent Elijah and Y'shua, aka the Angel of Smyrna and the Angel of Philadelphia (the only two Angeles that were not reprimanded, and instructed to repent).

chunkofcoal · Oct 19, 2017

Laureate, you've given us a lot to think about. You definitely interpret things differently than most people.
You said: "As for John's denial, even Y'shua said, Abvraham did not tell you the truth" Where did Yeshua tell them that Abraham didn't tell them the truth?

Laureate · Oct 19, 2017

chunkofcoal said:
Laureate, you've given us a lot to think about. You definitely interpret things differently than most people.
You said: "As for John's denial, even Y'shua said, Abvraham did not tell you the truth" Where did Yeshua tell them that Abraham didn't tell them the truth?

John 8:40
But now you seek to kill a me, a man who has told you the truth, which I have heard from Elohéyîm: this did not Abvraham.

Laureate · Oct 19, 2017

My interpretation tends to vary from those who cleave to the doctrines of men, a close examination of any of my ascertions will always be strictly predicated on scriptural precepts which include a Strong Hand (Manual),

chunkofcoal · Oct 20, 2017

Laureate said:
In deed John the Baptist was Elijah, as Y'shua said, why would you receive someone who comes in their own name?

Malachi reads, זכר Remember-Commemorate the Torah...Behold I will send you the Prophet Elijah...
And thus John the Baptist was born on Shavuot when the Torah received by Moshe is Commemorated.

John saw himself as a resurrected Abvraham who was fully capable of raising up children from his Own Stones-(testi), for he indeed saw the day of Y'shua, (as H'mesʰiakʰ declared) and was Glad, jumping and Rejoicing in the womb (according to Matthew).

I don't think John is Abraham. I think when he said God is able to raise up children to Abraham from the stones, I think he meant it just that way. The "stones" are people and when Yeshua said that not one stone would be left upon another (Matt. 24:1-2) He was talking about the scribes and Pharisees.
Abraham rejoiced to see His day because Abraham is alive. Yeshua said:
Mat 22:31-32 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, (32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

As for John's denial, even Y'shua said, Abvraham did not tell you the truth.

He didn't mean Abraham didn't tell the truth - He meant Abraham didn't try to kill the One who told him the truth.

Yet, according to Y'shua's own testimony (of all those born of a woman), John was Greater than even Y'shua who was born of a Woman, thus it is written, '...He must increase and I must decrease...', for he who has is given more, and he who does not have, has what they (apparently are failing to acknowledge) taken from them, and it is given unto those who do (apparently acknowledge what they) have.
But He is contrasting John - born of a woman - with those born of the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Thus, John's denial was a means (perhaps the only means) for John to transfer his Spirit unto the Son, who by the way, Received Ruakʰ H'kodesʰ when John baptized him, (for he alone knew who was actually baptizing him).
The Spirit descended; it didn't come from John.
Mat 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: (17) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

According to Y'shua, the Torah constitutes the prophets from Abvraham unto John, yet we are told (and I have no doubt), The First and the Last are the same, thus John was not only Elijah, he was/is Father Abvraham who is expected to turn the hearts of the children to the (resurrected) forefathers.

For the hour shall come As It Is Now, when the dead shall rise from their graves...
Thus the first visitation was a resurrection, just as we are Now resurrected again for the second advent.
Reincarnation?

In Ezekiel 36 Elohéyîm talks about how He will Sprinkle clean water on those who return to the land of Israel from the diaspora.

When John proclaimed to be the Voice in the Wilderness, he was proclaiming to be the Comforter of that prophecy, the same Comforter is mentioned in Isaiah 51 and is Identified as Abvraham, saying, You who follow after Righteousness (Abvraham's trade mark, if you will), you who seek (Î)yéhûʷəʰ.....Look unto Abvraham Your Father...for (Î)yéhûʷəʰ shall Comfort Zion...My Righteousness (I.e., Abvraham) is Near, My Salvation (I.e., Y'shua) is sent out...I, even I am he who Comforts you...
The LORD says that He will comfort Zion. Abraham and Sarah are like the Father and Mother of Zion. Isaiah 51:1-3 hearkens back to what Sarah said -
Gen 18:12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old
bâlâh
baw-law'
A primitive root; to fail; by implication to wear out, decay (causatively consume, spend): - consume, enjoy long, become (make, wax) old, spend, waste.

shall I have pleasure,
‛êden ‛ednâh
ay'-den, ed-naw'
From H5727; pleasure: - delicate, delight, pleasure. See also H1040.

my lord being old also?

Basically what Sarah said is like Zion asking, "Now that I am waxed old, shall I become like Eden?"
And the LORD says:
Isa 51:3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

Obviously, we are going to disagree!

There is so much more scriptural evidence to support this, I can keep going if you like...

Laureate · Oct 20, 2017

One of the joys of being a (Messianic) Jew, we can have entirely different views of the Scriptures, and not be so offended that we have to disown one another, and call our self by another name, as it is amongst the Denominations.

chunkofcoal · Oct 20, 2017

Laureate said:
One of the joys of being a (Messianic) Jew, we can have entirely different views of the Scriptures, and not be so offended that we have to disown one another, and call our self by another name, as it is amongst the Denominations.

We are all Seekers.

Laureate · Oct 20, 2017

chunkofcoal said:
We are all Seekers.

And precious in our Father's eyes.

pat34lee · Oct 24, 2017

Laureate said:
John 8:40
But now you seek to kill a me, a man who has told you the truth, which I have heard from Elohéyîm: this did not Abvraham.

This isn't about lying.
Yeshua heard directly from Yahweh.
Abraham didn't hear from Yahweh.
Abraham didn't lie and didn't attempt to kill
messengers bearing the truth of Yahweh.

pat34lee · Oct 24, 2017

Laureate said:
One of the joys of being a (Messianic) Jew, we can have entirely different views of the Scriptures, and not be so offended that we have to disown one another, and call our self by another name, as it is amongst the Denominations.

Differing views, yes. But there are points where
different becomes another gospel.

Galatians 1:8
2 Corinthians 11:4

Open Heart · Oct 24, 2017

pat34lee said:
Differing views, yes. But there are points where
different becomes another gospel.

Galatians 1:8
2 Corinthians 11:4

I agree. When it comes to, i.e., Mormons or JWs, they reject basic Trinitarianism. But the reverse problem is true too. I'm comfortable with the definition of Christian as it is laid out by CF. I think some people create schisms with their narrow views when in fact Paul teaches we are to be One Body. It is also my very personal opinion that someone can believe a false doctrine in ignorance and confusion and still believe that Messiah died for their sins and is raised from the dead and are baptized, which (again in my very humble opinion) puts them inside the One Body. IOW they know the basic gospel, and are saved despite having messed up theology.

pat34lee · Oct 24, 2017

Open Heart said:
I agree. When it comes to, i.e., Mormons or JWs, they reject basic Trinitarianism. But the reverse problem is true too. I'm comfortable with the definition of Christian as it is laid out by CF. I think some people create schisms with their narrow views when in fact Paul teaches we are to be One Body. It is also my very personal opinion that someone can believe a false doctrine in ignorance and confusion and still believe that Messiah died for their sins and is raised from the dead and are baptized, which (again in my very humble opinion) puts them inside the One Body. IOW they know the basic gospel, and are saved despite having messed up theology.

Possibly, but how much damage can a person do when they
spread a false gospel? They can cause some never to be saved
and others to fall away from the faith.

We can only be a body with like members. Another truth from
Genesis and why evolution is impossible.

Open Heart · Oct 25, 2017

pat34lee said:
Possibly, but how much damage can a person do when they
spread a false gospel?

The gospel is very simple. We are sinners in need of a savior. Jesus was the Messiah, who died for our sins, and rose from the dead. Because of this, we can now repent, believe, be baptized, and be forgiven of our sins by God, and have eternal life. His holy spirit will release us from the power that sin has over us, and we can now walk in his ways. That's the good news. All the rest is frosting on the cake.

Laureate · Oct 27, 2017

pat34lee said:
Differing views, yes. But there are points where
different becomes another gospel.

Galatians 1:8
2 Corinthians 11:4

There is but One Foundation, the Prophets of the Torah, and the Testimony of Immanuel's Disciples, (Î)yéshua himself being the Chief Corner Stone, if what one presents is not predicated thereon precept upon precept, how can one then declare, Rûakʰ H'kôʷdésʰ was their guide?

His בשר Flesh is the בשר Gospel, His דמם Blood is the דמם Plan.
He instructed us to שבר Break bread after the manner which he showed the Apostles, and His בשר Flesh is the Gospel which we שבר Translate, Interpret, etc.,

But instead, most just stagnate on Showbread that has been laying around a few thousand years.

Whomsoever has is given More than those who do not Get it, and because we all grow at differing rates and speeds we do good to not draw any hasty conclusions when we all have Knowledge that is above our pay grade.

Yet when there is no Scriptural predication, or triangulated harmony in one's presentation, or when there is blatant incompliance with the Gospel therein, then we can know someone has drifted off the Divine Path.

It is not our job to Save anyone from anyone, there is a Truth which sets one free from Sin and all of it's repercussions, we either Grow in His Word and attain unto it as He prescribed or we don't.

Could Elijah be there?

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