Are you squeamish about the word "catholic"?

thecolorsblend said:

Nonsense, I'm doing no such thing. Holy war and theocracy need no rationalization.

What I'm doing is justifying them.

And your problem is that you seem to think Christians should not bother about the problems of the material world (even to the point of saving innocent lives), as though there's nothing of value in the material world. That's a view which I've always found strange, almost gnostic.

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God will take care of justice if we pray and obey. The apostle paul teaches us that our weapons of warfare are not carnal. Why do you not understand that? The true apostles needed no carnal weapons because God delivered them.

2 corinthians 1:8 For we do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, of our trouble which came to us in Asia: that we were burdened beyond measure, above strength, so that we despaired even of life. 9 Yes, we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves but in God who raises the dead, 10 who delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver us; in whom we trust that He will still deliver us,11 you also helping together in prayer for us, that thanks may be given by many persons on our behalf for the gift granted to us through many.

2 corinthians 10:2 But I beg you that when I am present I may not be bold with that confidence by which I intend to be bold against some, who think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

W2L said:

God will take care of justice if we pray and obey. The apostle paul teaches us that our weapons of warfare are not carnal. Why do you not understand that? The true apostles needed no carnal weapons because God delivered them.

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I understand that St. Paul is referring to spiritual warfare.

The Crusades were not spiritual warfare and were not intended to be spiritual warfare. They were intended to be just plain warfare.

thecolorsblend said:

I understand that St. Paul is referring to spiritual warfare.

The Crusades were not spiritual warfare and were not intended to be spiritual warfare. They were intended to be just plain warfare.

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You clearly dont understand the scripture.

thecolorsblend said:

I understand that St. Paul is referring to spiritual warfare. The Crusades were not spiritual warfare and were not intended to be spiritual warfare. They were intended to be just plain warfare.

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I agree with the basic premise, however the understanding of the Kingdom of God was in the thinking of its day seen as a mirror image of The Holy Roman Empire (which was probably none of them) and the call to crusade carried with it all sorts of indulgences and the like so, although from the point of view of a marxist analysis of history, they were simply warfare as an expression of the struggle for control of productive resources, they were seen in their day as a proper expression of a spiritual life.

As we look at them today we readily see through this guise of spirituality and look at them as another expression of humanity's inhumanity to humnankind.

W2L said:

You clearly dont understand the scripture.

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And you clearly don't understand the Crusades. Or history.

I just saw this for the first time. I think John X is one of the most impressive Christians of our age, and he leads a Church in very difficult circumstances, yet seems consistently loud about the love of God.

thecolorsblend said:

And you clearly don't understand the Crusades. Or history.

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Yes i do, the crusades was a carnal war to take the holy land from muslims, and also to suppress "heresy". The real apostles didnt use swords however. God delivered them out of peril. Therefore any apostles using military power are false apostles.

W2L said:

Yes i do, the crusades was a carnal war to take the holy land from muslims, and also to suppress "heresy". The real apostles didnt use swords however. God delivered them out of peril. Therefore any apostles using military power are false apostles.

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That's nice, dear.

Some of you would actually twist Paul's words in order to defend the folly of your own church. Paul says we dont war in the flesh but you say we do? I'll follow paul the real apostle.

We dont fight in carnal wars. We pray instead. Prayer is a part of Gods armor. Why would we fight if our prayers are answered?

W2L said:

No, christianity would never cease to exist. Even underground it would thrive.

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No doubt you would be the first of the underground leaders to continue Christianity. Do you know what happens to Christian leaders when Christianity is illegal?

(Do I hear the sound of a guillotine? Or a firing squad?)

I am not saying that you're wrong in saying that Christianity will continue to exist. But I firmly doubt that one of us stupid, vain, lazy Americans will lead it.

W2L said:

The folly of catholicism is that they tried to build a theocracy. This will never work because the kingdom of God is not of this world.

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Then why are you trying to build a non-denominational Protestant kingdom here on earth, where everyone has to agree with you?

Have you ever thought that Catholics TRULY BELIEVE that WE are right? Probably not, because you won't allow your mind to stretch that far in a new direction.

Tell me, why did you choose to be in a non-denominational church and not be Baptist, or Free Evangelical, or Assemblies of God or anything else?

W2L said:

We dont fight in carnal wars. We pray instead. Prayer is a part of Gods armor. Why would we fight if our prayers are answered?

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And how many of your prayers has God answered in the affirmative? God can answer prayers, and He always does. His answers are yes, no, and wait.

If He does answer yes to you all the time, then pray for a steady endowment for out hermitage, The Urban Hermitage of the Life Giving Fountain. We need the support.

W2L said:

Yes after a bloody war. You have to wonder who started these wars. The holy land crusade was obviously a lack of discernment to say the least. Other crusades involved suppressing what catholicism deemed paganism and heresy. However look at the contrast against the true apostles who lived in pagan rome and never started a civil war. No, give unto caesar that which is his, and to God what is His.

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In case you didn't know, Islam was about to over run the world. If the Crusaders had not done as they had, including gaining land, then all off the holy places we read about in the Bible would have been destroyed, all Christians in the Holy Land would have been executed or (as happens today in Islamic cultures) persecuted.

Columbus would not have been allowed to sail to China (without knowing that there was a huge pair of continents between him and China). Without that, Western Civilization would have been stalled, and you and I would both be speaking Arabic today instead of English.

Christianity would have thrived in India and Eastern Europe, and the only Bibles being printed would be in Mala-Yala and Russian.

W2L said:

Yes but you are missing the point. The true apostles didnt fight a carnal war and they lived in pagan rome! They didnt try to liberate the holy land from rome!

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And all except John were executed!

W2L said:

Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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But separating your head from your body certainly stops you from following God's command in Matt 28:18-20

Monk Brendan said:

Then why are you trying to build a non-denominational Protestant kingdom here on earth, where everyone has to agree with you?

Have you ever thought that Catholics TRULY BELIEVE that WE are right? Probably not, because you won't allow your mind to stretch that far in a new direction.

Tell me, why did you choose to be in a non-denominational church and not be Baptist, or Free Evangelical, or Assemblies of God or anything else?

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lol. That was funny, thank you i needed a laugh.

Monk Brendan said:

And all except John were executed!

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If thats true it only means they followed Jesus.

Matthew 23:22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”

23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

Matthew 10:24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25 It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household! 26 Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.