What is and is not a sin... The correct view of sin...?

christopheralan88 said:

Hey Halbhh,

Just to clarify, are you saying Jesus changed the Law? If so, my response to Ron Gurley above might shed some light on that .

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Christ said a new way of doing God's will that is to replace the old way of doing things, the way the Law was being done at that time.

"...a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. ... Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

So, all the old way of outward forms, performing rituals and sacrifices and the outward-only versions of following the Law -- all to be replaced with the true thing instead, the real spirit of the Law. The Law fulfilled. Done right.
"For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." -- Hosea 6:6, Matthew 9:13

That is, the typical way the Law was being followed was going to be changed, to increase an actual following of the real essence of the Law.

The new way to be followed would be "in spirit and in truth", and the old way was not good enough.

The Pharisee way of following the Law, lacking both spirit and lacking in-truth, would be corrected and replaced with the true version, having the spirit correct.

This is how the law "is" now --

"So in everything, do to others as you would have them to do you, for this is the law and the prophets".

You can call it the "how to" rule for doing "Love your neighbor as yourself", and this rule can even help us with relating to God the right way. We know we are to Love God with all of our hearts, and all of our minds, and all of our souls, and all of our might. I.e. -- we are to love Him as we most profoundly want to be loved.

So when Christ says all the law hangs on the two greatest commandments, I think it's a full statement of all the law now. It's not a halfway-there. Not a reduction. Instead, this is the true essence of the all. It's complete.

Neogaia777 said:

We are to obey his commandments, all of them...

And, we are to see that we fall short of what God is, in the Law... And then, see God and see ourselves falling short, but, what happens "after" that, is the question...? (and one hint is: we are still to try and obey his commandments no matter what)...?

God Bless!

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Yes. And wonderfully, Christ now can tell us the law as the two greatest commandments, and this law is now written on our hearts. Inside. No longer an external form, no longer an outward or legalistic law, but a true "in spirit and in truth" law written on our hearts. We all sin, as in 1 John chapter 1, and when we confess our sins to God, He is just and merciful to forgive! Hallelujah! We learn to pray to the Father, "And forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us". This is a vastly better situation for us than before Christ came. We are under the law fulfilled (the 'law of love' as some say it).

Ron Gurley said:

The 10 Commandments in Exodus/Deut. is the heart and spirit of the Torah/Pentateuch.
The remainder is ritual rules/history for the Abramic/Mosaic chosen peoples/Nations.

Jesus was sinless. He did not break the Law given to Moses, the Mosaic Law. He confirmed, clarified, added to and obeyed God's "Laws" in the NT. His NEW precepts and example replaced and fulfilled the OLD letter of the "Law" of the OT.

As Christ-Followers we are freed from the impossible burden of perfect obedience to the OT Law.

Galatians 2:16
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Romans 3:27-28,31
Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Romans 4:13-14,16
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.
For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified;
For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace,
so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law,
but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

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How is Jesus the Messiah if He added to the Law or gave a new Law? If He kept the Law perfectly/was sinless, He could not have done that because He would be breaking the Law (Deuteronomy 4:2, 12:32, 28:14, and 13:1-5). Also, disturbingly, not only would He have sinned, but He would have been matching prophecy of the Antichrist (Daniel 7:25).

Jesus could certainly have explained/taught the Law in new ways/parables, but He could not have changed/added to/removed from the Law in anyway or He would have sinned.

Neogaia777 said:

Yes, what is the law...?

I my hope was not to debate what sin is, but was for us to be led to conclude that were all sinners, daily... And proceed from there...



I agree with you, but "will teach law" "how" though...? In what way...? Again, I say, "What is the law...?,

I feel like I teach and preach law, though many would not think so...?



It does, thank You!

God Bless!

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Hey Neogaia777 !

So, it seems your question is what the Law is right? Below is the link for the Hebrew word "towrah", which often translates to "law" and is used many times throughout the Bible to point to Genesis through Deuteronomy. The Strong's Concordance section says this: "a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch:—law." The Pentateuch is the first five books of the Bible, Genesis through Deuteronomy.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

As far as how Jesus taught the Law, it helps to read the Law (and Prophets for that matter) first to understand more what He's saying. Jesus sometimes is very straightforward in teaching the Law (ex: Matthew 18:16 is an application of Deuteronomy 19:15), while other times He speaks in parables (ex: Matthew 7:13-29).

Neogaia777 said:

I my hope was not to debate what sin is, but was for us to be led to conclude that were all sinners, daily... And proceed from there...

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I used to think along these lines too - I used to think that practically breathing was a sin lol! But, then I read the Law and realized that I (and many Christians) already keep a vast majority of the Law without even realizing it. Do we all sin? Yes. But, do we sin as much as we are led to believe by the Christian church? I would say no. In fact, from what God has revealed to me as of today from reading His Law through His Spirit, I would say I could very well go at least a day, maybe even days without sinning .

Halbhh said:

Christ said a new way of doing God's will that is to replace the old way of doing things, the way the Law was being done at that time.

"...a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. ... Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

So, all the old way of outward forms, performing rituals and sacrifices and the outward-only versions of following the Law -- all to be replaced with the true thing instead, the real spirit of the Law. The Law fulfilled. Done right.
"For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." -- Hosea 6:6, Matthew 9:13

That is, the typical way the Law was being followed was going to be changed, to increase an actual following of the real essence of the Law.

The new way to be followed would be "in spirit and in truth", and the old way was not good enough.

The Pharisee way of following the Law, lacking both spirit and lacking in-truth, would be corrected and replaced with the true version, having the spirit correct.

This is how the law "is" now --

"So in everything, do to others as you would have them to do you, for this is the law and the prophets".

You can call it the "how to" rule for doing "Love your neighbor as yourself", and this rule can even help us with relating to God the right way. We know we are to Love God with all of our hearts, and all of our minds, and all of our souls, and all of our might. I.e. -- we are to love Him as we most profoundly want to be loved.

So when Christ says all the law hangs on the two greatest commandments, I think it's a full statement of all the law now. It's not a halfway-there. Not a reduction. Instead, this is the true essence of the all. It's complete.

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Well, we have to clarify a few things:

1) The Law as it was done at the time of Jesus' first coming had burdensome Jewish traditions added to it, which should not happen because we shouldn't add commands to/remove commands from the Law (Deuteronomy 4:2, 12:32, 28:14, and 13:1-5).

2) Truth is defined as the Law (Psalm 119:142). So, when Jesus says that God's worshipers will worship Him in both Spirit and Truth, it means, in my opinion, that we will walk in both the word of the Law (the commands in Genesis through Deuteronomy) and the correct application of it (Spirit). But Jesus did not give a new Law or change the Law. If He did, then He wouldn't be sinless since He would be breaking Deuteronomy 4:2, 12:32, 28:14, and 13:1-5.

3) Hosea 6:6 is said in the context that Israel was going through the motions of sacrifices and not repenting and walking in the Law. Notice how it says "I desire...acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings". How do we acknowledge God? We acknowledge that He is our Master by serving Him. How do we serve Him? By obeying Him. How do we obey Him? By following His commands. What are His commands? The Law. See Proverbs 3:1-6 and Deuteronomy 28:14 below:

Proverbs 3:1-6:
1 My son, do not forget my law,
But let your heart keep my commands;
2 For length of days and long life
And peace they will add to you.

3 Let not mercy and truth (the Law per Psalm 119:142) forsake you;
Bind them around your neck,
Write them on the tablet of your heart,
4 And so find favor and high esteem
In the sight of God and man.

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him (the context of is remembering to do the Law, so acknowledging God is walking in His Law),
And He shall direct your paths.

Deuteronomy 28:14:
So you shall not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right or the left, to go after other gods to serve them (who you obey is who you serve. If you obey the Law, you serve God. If you obey commands other than the Law, then you serve other gods).

Halbhh said:

So when Christ says all the law hangs on the two greatest commandments, I think it's a full statement of all the law now. It's not a halfway-there. Not a reduction. Instead, this is the true essence of the all. It's complete.

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Jesus could not have completed the Law. It's already perfect/complete. Consider Proverbs 19:7: "The law of the LORD is perfect". The Hebrew word that translates to "perfect" here is "tamiym". It can also mean "complete, entire, whole, sound". So, per Psalm 19:7 the Law is complete. This is also the reason you have Deuteronomy 4:2, 12:32, 28:14, and 13:1-5 saying not to change/add to/remove from/alter the Law....because it is complete, perfect, entire, sound, "tamiym" already. Here is the Blue Letter Bible link for "tamiym" if you want to see the usage and definition for yourself:

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

Last thing I'll touch on: to my knowledge, the Bible says the sacrificial system will return in the future. I understand that may be a shocker, but read Ezekiel 40-48. To my knowledge, the temple that is described there has not been built yet.

Some noteworthy points about the Ezekiel 40-48 temple is that 1) the glory of God fills this temple (Ezekiel 44:4) (it is His dwelling place), 2) those who are uncircumcised in flesh or heart (regardless of whether they are a child of Israel or a foreigner) will not enter the temple (Ezekiel 44:9) (but of course, you can become circumcised in both heart and flesh and then enter the temple), 3) the Levitical priesthood will return (Ezekiel 44:10-31), 4) Passover and the Festival of Unleavened Bread is celebrated - not Easter (Ezekiel 45:21), 5) and sacrifices/offerings will be done once again (Ezekiel 44:27-29, 45:17, 42:13-14, 42:22). Remember that almost all of these verses I've quoted are written as God's direct quotes to Ezekiel. These is literally God saying these things to Ezekiel.

Please don't think that I'm saying that Jesus was not your ultimate sacrifice by which you are saved. That's not what I'm saying by quoting Ezekiel 40-48. You are saved by His sacrifice. In my opinion, if our sin is wiped away/forgiven, then we won't have to do sin offerings - but the nations will. Instead, we will be allowed to make thanksgiving/peace offerings to God (Leviticus 3).

I hope this helps !

Neogaia777 said:

Thank You so very much, your very kind in your response... It helps...

God Bless!

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Not a problem! Thank you for the conversation !

Kelly McArthur said:

How did this happen for you, are you able to write? For myself there was a counterclockwise swirling beneath my sternum; I grasp my right hand and held wondering "what?" and this swirl stopped and became hard and dropped and I looked down and saw a veil lift and a left hand caught a white stone with a name on it. I only saw the stone for a twinkle.

John 10:27.

Peace and blessing to you from Lord Jesus ~

Revelations 3:21.

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Hi Kelly, There is one that promised Eve to lift the veil back in the garden and it was a lie. It was so he could enter in, that which was created good. Jesus healing of the blind man is meant to show us that only by Him is the veil lifted." I once was blind but now I see". While it is true the enemy is a copy cat, and yes he wears many hats in order to deceive. he can not create, for every thing he touches, he destroys. He is a destroyer. He also brings visions in order to deceive. The Lord has said, "The Lord" is my name and there is no other God beside me. The Lord has not come to put people in chains but He has come to set the captives free.Take notice the word "The". "The Lord is my name" And Here," I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life.", I am The bread of life. Now who do you think would want to take way the word "THE"? Subtle, but easily seen by those whose eyes have been opened. And now to answer your question, THE Lord Jesus told me my new name long ago. I also can write, but I type with one finger which takes about 20 times longer than most people. I hope that you would consider the words that I have spoken unto you. And for testing purposes I say to you truly, Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. Have a blessed day.

A portion of the hidden manna comes before the white stone and new name. You say Jesus told you your name, so you never received a white stone rather he told you. Interesting, where is this written?

GTW27 said:

Hi Kelly, There is one that promised Eve to lift the veil back in the garden and it was a lie. It was so he could enter in, that which was created good. Jesus healing of the blind man is meant to show us that only by Him is the veil lifted." I once was blind but now I see". While it is true the enemy is a copy cat, and yes he wears many hats in order to deceive. he can not create, for every thing he touches, he destroys. He is a destroyer. He also brings visions in order to deceive. The Lord has said, "The Lord" is my name and there is no other God beside me. The Lord has not come to put people in chains but He has come to set the captives free.Take notice the word "The". "The Lord is my name" And Here," I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life.", I am The bread of life. Now who do you think would want to take way the word "THE"? Subtle, but easily seen by those whose eyes have been opened. And now to answer your question, THE Lord Jesus told me my new name long ago. I also can write, but I type with one finger which takes about 20 times longer than most people. I hope that you would consider the words that I have spoken unto you. And for testing purposes I say to you truly, Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. Have a blessed day.

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I will agree with The Way, The Truth, The Life. No man comes to the Father except by him, Lord Jesus. A portion of the hidden manna comes before the white stone and new name. You say Jesus told you your name, so you never received a white stone rather he told you. Interesting, where is this written?

Kelly McArthur said:

The ego thinks he's pretty clever though he never has had original thought, thus called copy cat. Jesus is our Father and is called LORD God and there is none like him. The elect will not be deceived. The book of John was written in 90 - 110 AD and was revised 3 times in Rome. I will agree with The Way, The Truth, The Life. No man comes to the Father except by him, Lord Jesus. A portion of the hidden manna comes before the white stone and new name. You say Jesus told you your name, so you never received a white stone rather he told you. Interesting, where is this written?

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On the white stone silly.

GTW27 said:

On the white stone silly.

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Christ will take this world by stealth.


We are in the second coming...









She see's the crowning the head, the male-child coming forth who is caught up to the throne of God, kept safe; He is safe, the male-child is safe!

The great dragon devours no more!

A mystery unfolding.

Perfect love casts out fear.

1 John 4:18



M

What is and is not a sin... The correct view of sin...?

What is sin? Standing Against God.
What is not sin? Standing With God.

Matt 12 [30] He that is not with me is against me;

God Bless,
SBC

Neogaia777 said:

What is and is not a sin... The correct view of sin...?

Some say just about everything is a sin, some say some things are under some circumstances and not in others, then some others say "not everything we think is a sin, is a sin", and I would like those ones to explain further...? They seem to have a narrower view of sin, while having to broad a view of sin, makes everything a sin...

Who's right...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

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Once a Christ with Lord and united with our soul we do not return into this flesh. This world is in the second coming of Christ, the ones who choose correctly are going to unite with him on purpose through the power of the Holy Spirit.


There is a good reason why all this is happening.


M