Revelation leaves no doubt that Jesus is Yahweh, the great I AM?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

THIS is where you're or they're mistake is -
why they say YAHWEH is incomplete is unknown to me,
and why you agree with them is in error with them.

YAHWEH IS PERFECT AND COMPLETE
and
YAHWEH is ALL OF YAHWEH.
Nothing ever missing, nothing lacking ever.
HE SAYS SO - HIS WORD ALWAYS SAYS THIS.

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Okay -- I'm not saying that Yahweh is incomplete.

Walter Martin and Ron Rhodes are not saying that Yahweh is incomplete. I think we are having a difficult time getting around the name Yahweh because of what each of us thinks.

Although the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different Persons, there is still no division within God Himself, if that is what you are talking about here?

Baby Cottontail said:

I think it is the name that refers to the whole triune God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).

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So ?
That in no way makes YAHWEH = YESHUA.
Just like a husband is NOT his wife, though they become ONE FLESH (and hopefully ONE (ECHAD) in CHRIST) .

WHen BOB is married to SUSAN, you do not call SUSAN BOB, nor do you call BOB SUSAN.

They are both perhaps the SMITHS (last name), but neither one is called by the other one's first name.

Neither is Yahweh ever mixed up IN SCRIPTURE and called Yeshua,
nor is Yeshua EVER mixed up in SCRIPTURE and called Yahweh.

Baby Cottontail said:

I agree that the Father is not Jesus, and Jesus is not the Father.

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THIS IS GOOD.
The Father IS YAHWEH. Jesus is NOT Yahweh.
Yahweh is the Father's NAME. Yahweh is NOT Jesus' NAME.

Baby Cottontail said:

I think we are having a difficult time getting around the name Yahweh because of what each of us thinks.

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The NAME YAHWEH refers to YAHWEH, see? Simple.
The Name of Jesus refers to Jesus, see ? They are NEVER mixed up in TRUTH , LIFE, or SCRIPTURE.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

So ?
That in no way makes YAHWEH = YESHUA.
Just like a husband is NOT his wife, though they become ONE FLESH (and hopefully ONE (ECHAD) in CHRIST) .

WHen BOB is married to SUSAN, you do not call SUSAN BOB, nor do you call BOB SUSAN.

They are both perhaps the SMITHS (last name), but neither one is called by the other one's first name.

Neither is Yahweh ever mixed up IN SCRIPTURE and called Yeshua,
nor is Yeshua EVER mixed up in SCRIPTURE and called Yahweh.

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So....do you believe that the Father and Jesus are the same God?

I need this perspective so I know whether or not we are on the same page.

From your above example of husband and wife, I'm wondering if you don't think they are the same God? But I need you to say "yes" or "no."

Baby Cottontail said:

Walter Martin and Ron Rhodes are not saying that Yahweh is incomplete.

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IF they say and taught you in error that
Yahweh is Yeshua, and you believe them, why ? It is never in Scripture.

Baby Cottontail said:

So....do you believe that the Father and Jesus are the same God?

I need this perspective so I know whether or not we are on the same page.

From your above example of husband and wife, I'm wondering if you don't think they are the same God? But I need you to say "yes" or "no."

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Of course they are the same God, the one true God, and there is none other.

We are NOT on the same page, because of the confusion someone gave you using the NAME YAHWEH.

Baby Cottontail said:

Let me ask you a question -- if Jesus is not Yahweh, then how can He be God? (How can He have Deity).

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In your opinion, are angels divine? Are the Father, Son & Holy Spirit the only beings in the heavenly realm that are "divine"?

One more question @Baby Cottontail

What does it mean to have deity?

1213 said:

If man can be the one and only true God, like it is said Jesus is, then it is easy for any other man to make the same claim. And if people can accept that Jesus is the one and only true God, they can accept any other man who makes the same claim.

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that's interesting

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Of course they are the same God, the one true God, and there is none other.

We are NOT on the same page, because of the confusion someone gave you using the NAME YAHWEH.

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Okay -- then let me see if I can explain what I'm thinking this way.

I agree with you that the Father and Jesus are the same God, the one true God, and that there is no other.

With that in mind -- my starting premise is that this one true God is Yahweh. As such, both the Father and Son are Him.

That's all I'm saying.

You're using Yahweh for only the Father.

Here, let me put this another way. Matthew 28:19 (NASB)
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

That doesn't say "names of," but rather "name of." I believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit share the name and identity of Yahweh.

Dkh587 said:

The name of YHWH does not "appear" to be in the New Testament, however, in the Greek, the general word for "Lord" is used, but when we look at the Torah & the Prophets, they're quoting verses where YHWH was used

For example:

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Right. And here is another one:
Matthew 3:3 (NASB)
For this is the one referred to by Isaiah the prophet when he said, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness, ‘Make ready the way of the Lord, Make His paths straight!’”

Isaiah 40:3 (NASB)
A voice is calling,
“Clear the way for the LORD in the wilderness;
Make smooth in the desert a highway for our God.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

THIS IS GOOD.
The Father IS YAHWEH. Jesus is NOT Yahweh.
Yahweh is the Father's NAME. Yahweh is NOT Jesus' NAME.

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Why do you think Yahweh is only the Father?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

The NAME YAHWEH refers to YAHWEH, see? Simple.
The Name of Jesus refers to Jesus, see ? They are NEVER mixed up in TRUTH , LIFE, or SCRIPTURE.

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Except the Father is never referred to as Yahweh in the NT either. (this does not mean that He is not Yahweh. I believe He is Yahweh.)

The fact is that the name Yahweh is not ever used in the NT. The name "Yahweh" is only implicitly implied when the NT quotes the OT. Sometimes when it quotes the OT, the referent is Jesus.

Because of this, and the fact that there is only one God (which we both agree), I don't see why the name Yahweh is limited to just the Father.

Jesus is never the Father, and the Father is never Jesus. However, as the same God, both are Yahweh.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

IF they say and taught you in error that
Yahweh is Yeshua, and you believe them, why ? It is never in Scripture.

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It can be inferred from Scripture. If there is only one God, then by logic, all three Persons are Him. There are passages (many of them quoted in this thread even) that show that Jesus is also Yahweh.

It makes it a little difficult because this isn't explicitly stated in Scripture, since the name "Yahweh" is never used in the NT. If it were, then we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place.

The closest thing in the NT to calling Jesus Yahweh is all the "I AM" statements that Jesus uses of Himself, mostly in the Gospel of John, especially John 8:58.

Dkh587 said:

In your opinion, are angels divine? Are the Father, Son & Holy Spirit the only beings in the heavenly realm that are "divine"?

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Angels are divine only in the sense that they are a separate order of creation that lives in heaven.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three Persons that are one Being.

Dkh587 said:

One more question @Baby Cottontail

What does it mean to have deity?

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To possess Godhood.....to be God.

I should also add that older translations such as the KJV use "Godhead" as a synonym as well. We don't usually use that term in today's language, although I have seen people use it. Some people use it incorrectly, so I try to avoid using the word "Godhead."

Baby Cottontail said:

Angels are divine only in the sense that they are a separate order of creation that lives in heaven.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three Persons that are one Being.

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What does it mean to be divine? Does that mean that they share the same nature as God?

Dkh587 said:

What does it mean to be divine? Does that mean that they share the same nature as God?

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No. I see the word "divine" differently. It isn't the same as deity.

"Divine" is a more general term that people use for more than just God. I don't know if this was the way that the term was originally used. I'd have to look that up. But in today's society, "divine" is a general term for speaking about things in the heavenly realm.

So, the way people use the term "divine" I don't think it means that it has to have the same nature as God.

I tend to steer clear of the term "divine" because people see it and may have different ideas of what the word means.

In the strictest sense, (and probably the original meaning of the term), it would be limited to just God. I just don't see anyone really using it that way today.

Baby Cottontail said:

With that in mind -- my starting premise is that this one true God is Yahweh. As such, both the Father and Son are Him.

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See, your starting premise is wrong.
So anything that follows it is wrong.

I preferred not to, but checked Martin and Rhodes, and they have other errors also.... but it's not worth going into here.

Just realize that trusting in them leads to more errors.

Test everything BY SCRIPTURE, not by how you feel or what they say.