Does God want us to "sin less" in this life or to "stop sinning?"

Kenny'sID said:

Jason, not sure where y'all were in discussing that, so this isn't necessarily directed towards you/anyone, but if I may... I think Jesus covered that in teaching us the lords prayer, as in, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us". That's not to say, we say that once and sin as we please, and we're covered forever as some seem to think, but it's a daily, or whatever reminder to we need to try not to sin, and it does take care of general forgiveness. I think the way the prayer is worded, it settles a lot of confusion of this type.

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Well, I used to think that the Lord’s prayer was a daily prayer for all believers (to be prayed as an outline) over the course of our whole lives. But after examining the Scriptures, this is simply not so. First, of all, it does not say it is a daily prayer. Second, while this prayer can be prayed in a daily manner, it is a prayer for new believers in the faith. It is a starter prayer that helps a new believer to walk uprightly and give glory to GOD and in seeking His will for their life because the disciples asked how should they pray. Forgive us our debts (sins) as we forgive our debtors (i.e. those who sin against us) may not always apply. There may be a day where nobody sins against you. Also, what about verse 13? If we pray not to be led into temptation and ask GOD to deliver us from evil and GOD answers that prayer, are we going to keep praying for GOD to deliver us from evil when He has answered our prayer in being delivered from evil? In other words, it does not make any sense to pray for something that GOD will never give to you in this life.

You said:

And not only that, God understands circumstance better than we do, he knows the basic heart so, yes, of course they can be saved.

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God cannot sympathize with a person's reasons for sinning. No circumstance or excuse would be acceptable for a person to sin. Only if they repent and say they are sorry can they be forgiven. Only if they are genuinely looking to forsake their sin and evil and not repeat it will God give them mercy. For if a man cheated on his wife, and he told her he was sorry, but he had no intention of giving up his sleeping around on her, then he is not really sorry. They are empty words. Meaningless. If a person genuinely repents, that is different.

You said:

I doubt God sends anyone to Hell on a technicality like that...his judgment is perfect, unlike ours where a murderer might get off because someone forgot to read him his rights. And the opposite to that, where a man goes to jail for some minor, in the scheme of things, technical infraction when they were normally good Godly people

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God knows the heart. God knows if somebody is pure of heart and wants to truly do good or not. If a person lived a Godly life and they sinned very seriously and God sent them to hell before they had a chance to repent, God would be justified because God knows their heart and their future. Obviously in a case like that, God knew that they would do even worse evils, etc. In other rare cases, I believe that God can save a believer who had gotten off the path and then repent at the last moment before they die (coming to their senses) and be in Christ's arms. But God's Word teaches all believers to walk holy as a part of the salvation process. God tells all believers to be perfect and to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh (sin). See Luke 6:40, 2 Corinthians 7:1, 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24.

Neogaia777 said:

I am not aware of anything suggesting I was, or have been "against" God's commands at any time...?

Could be that you and my ideas that God's commands are basically that: "to not ever sin at all period" differ... And with my view of sin vs. what you think sin is, might differ too, and we probably found ourselves at odds with one another pertaining to things like that...

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It is what you said in Post #365.
Do you believe that if a believer looks upon a woman in lust that they can be cast bodily into hellfire?
Do you believe that if a believer does not forgive, they will not be forgiven?
Do you believe that if a believer hates his brother they have no eternal life abiding in them?

You said:

What commands do I seem to be against...?

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Sin not (1 John 2:1).
Keep the Commandments (Matthew 19:17).

Neogaia777 said:

The power of sin coming from knowledge of a thing, kind of thing...? and forgetting and forsaking the a or the or any written law code or covenant, all that...? Love is the answer, love is the way...

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Love is the answer and the way. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).

You said,

So obviously your way is not working.

You said:

Maybe some, God knows...

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In Matthew 5:28-30, Jesus says a person can be cast into hellfire for lusting after a women. I do not believe Jesus makes idle threats.

You said:

If they are guilty of the same maybe, in an area of their unforgiveness... Other than that, only God knows all the factors needed to cast just judgement on this issue...

Might be harder or easier for some to forgive than others, and they are different people, with altogether different innumerable factors to be considered...

I don't think I can say..

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Of course God will judge each case differently, but the fact remains is that Matthew 6:15 says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. This means if somebody dies in unrepentant sin of not forgiving somebody, they are not going to be forgiven. God will of course give a person every chance to repent.

You said:

Again, maybe...?

For some, maybe they die before getting to resolve the anger problems, or they have good reason to have anger problems or anger issues with some people, and in their life altogether...?

Individuals Jason, I'll argue with the Movie: Fightclub and tell you that "we actually are each a very unique ,different from one another, unique beautiful snowflake" to God, and each very special, all with hundreds of trillions or more individual "Factor's" to be considered in being able to truly judge them justly and accurately, and rightly...

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And I will argue with God's Word. 1 John 3:15 says that if anyone hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them.

You said:

It says "that you "may" or "might not" "commit" (or carry out acts of) a sin..." (or so much, maybe?) He knew some would, that many would (and are and do) if he, (John) is wise, do you think he considered them lost and on their way to hell...?

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No. Why tell them to repent or confess their sins if they are not on their way to hell for sinning? If they are Once Saved Always Saved, they do not need to do anything.

You said:

Look, I'd really like it (life) and me, a whole lot better if I didn't sin... I want to not sin, But, and because I feel like I've tried everything and have failed in all the things and methods I have tried, so, I'm looking for some new methods, strategies, approaches in dealing with and handling sin and sinful temptations... have any...?

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I already gave them to you in my Post #150 within this thread.

I hope they help;
And may God's love be upon you today.

SBC said:

Yes.

Question #2. Do you believe holiness plays no part in the salvation process? (Yes, or no).

No, there is no contradiction. I was trying to demonstrate to you; You forming the question, then demanding a yes or no answer without additional expression, rarely works out well.

You formed your question, in such a way, to answer YES, would mean, Yes, one believes holiness plays no part in the salvation process.

I thus, answered No to your question.

Do I believe holiness plays no part?

No, I believe holiness DOES PLAY A PART.

Examine your own question, of how you chose to form your question.

God Bless,
SBC

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I am glad to hear that you believe holiness plays a part in our salvation.
But if you said that a believer is saved by having a belief on Jesus alone, then holiness would not play a part in one's salvation, though. That is why I said you believed a contradiction. For to believe on Jesus alone for salvation could not be true if a person also believed holiness plays a part in their salvation, too.

SBC said:

Holiness DOES play a part in our Salvation- but to be sure, GOD does not SAVE the HOLY.

God SAVES the UNHOLY, who are dead in trespass and sin.

The SAVING, effected BY OUR GREAT HOLY GOD, does many things TO the man, which results in making the man WHOLLY, WHOLE, and HOLY unto God.

(Which includes, but not limited to, KEEPING the man from EVER AGAIN "sinning". Which I know you disagree with, but, is a fact.

1 Thes 5
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God Bless,
SBC

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Not true. It is written,

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

Yes, Jesus can help those who were once unholy to be holy, but this is by repentance. For Jesus calls sinners to repentance. Jesus says, "They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Mark 2:17).

They that are whole have no need of the physician.
This means that those who are righteous have already been healed by Jesus.
Sin is the disease or the sickness.
Jesus is the Great Physician who has come to heal people of this disease.
Doctors normally cure a sickness from a patient so the sickness is no longer there.
Eternal Security is saying that the patient can look sick and yet they are healthy and cured.

SBC said:

You are trying to correct your HUMAN NATURE.

"YOU" can't.

"YOU" have tried. "YOU" can remember what you have done. "YOU" can know what you want to do.
"YOU" can recognize "temptations" and as "YOU" are doing now, "YOU" can reveal your frustrations, and say "YOU" have failed.

THE GOOD NEWS IS; "YOU" are not the ONLY ONE floating in that boat. Every single person, born of the earth, is HUMAN, and is FALLEN short of TRYING TO "overcome" their own individual
SINFUL NATURE.

THE GOOD NEWS IS; "IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD".... "you" have already "overcome" your sinful nature.
NOT BY "YOUR" EFFORTS....but BY "GODS" EFFORTS.

"YOU", have been FORGIVEN "YOUR" sins. ALL OF THEM. ACCEPT IT!
"YOUR", sins have been washed, covered, forgiven, and remembered NO MORE. ACCEPT IT!
"YOU", have been made WHOLLY acceptable TO God, BY God. ACCEPT IT!

"STOP", dwelling on what "WAS" and accept "WHAT IS".
"STOP", lying, saying "YOU" commit SIN, "WHEN" that is the OPPOSITE, of what GOD SAYS.

'IF" Gods SPIRIT dwells IN YOU, YOU HAVE OVERCOME. God does NOT DWELL IN SIN!

"YOUR" struggles, that "YOU" are "TRYING" to "OVERCOME", ARE, "YOUR" mindful, natural MINDS thoughts, trying to supersede your HEARTS true thoughts.

"ACCEPT", you are not STRONG ENOUGH, and WHY, God says..... LEAN ON HIM, which means, STOP,
trying to LET your MIND dredge up, and control, what GOD HAD ALREADY put asunder.

God has ALREADY, divided the thoughts in your MIND, from the thoughts in your heart.
And it is GOD with the POWER to EFFECT "your desires", to WANT, to DO, what is in your heart, and NOT your MIND.

IOW - "YOU" stop TRYING to FIX, and ASK GOD, and ASK GOD, and ASK GOD....
IOW - GOD already HAS the FIX. ASK HIM, what you WANT. He is FAITHFUL.....

Luke 11
[9] And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Be not troubled. Be not afraid. Be not worried.

Pss 55
[22] Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee:

1 Pet 5
[6] Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
[7] Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
[10] But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Be patient. If you have submitted unto the Lord; He (not your mind) is in control of your life. TRUST He is faithful, and HE WILL work within you, what YOUR MIND KEEPS, trying to tell you, isn't so, isn't possible.

God Bless,
SBC

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You are also preaching a contradictory message. A moment ago, you said that God does not save the holy. You said God saves the unholy who are dead in trespass and sin. While this is true if a person repents of their sins with a Godly sorrow, it is not true if they are still in their sins and they are not sorry over their own sins.

Ephesians 2:1 says,
1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Ephesians 2:1-3).

19 ...even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. (Romans 6:19-22).

17 "This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ."
(Ephesians 4:17-20).

26 "Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." (Ephesians 426-29).

SBC said:

You are trying to correct your HUMAN NATURE.

"YOU" can't.

"YOU" have tried. "YOU" can remember what you have done. "YOU" can know what you want to do.
"YOU" can recognize "temptations" and as "YOU" are doing now, "YOU" can reveal your frustrations, and say "YOU" have failed.

THE GOOD NEWS IS; "YOU" are not the ONLY ONE floating in that boat. Every single person, born of the earth, is HUMAN, and is FALLEN short of TRYING TO "overcome" their own individual
SINFUL NATURE.

THE GOOD NEWS IS; "IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD".... "you" have already "overcome" your sinful nature.
NOT BY "YOUR" EFFORTS....but BY "GODS" EFFORTS.

"YOU", have been FORGIVEN "YOUR" sins. ALL OF THEM. ACCEPT IT!
"YOUR", sins have been washed, covered, forgiven, and remembered NO MORE. ACCEPT IT!
"YOU", have been made WHOLLY acceptable TO God, BY God. ACCEPT IT!

"STOP", dwelling on what "WAS" and accept "WHAT IS".
"STOP", lying, saying "YOU" commit SIN, "WHEN" that is the OPPOSITE, of what GOD SAYS.

'IF" Gods SPIRIT dwells IN YOU, YOU HAVE OVERCOME. God does NOT DWELL IN SIN!

"YOUR" struggles, that "YOU" are "TRYING" to "OVERCOME", ARE, "YOUR" mindful, natural MINDS thoughts, trying to supersede your HEARTS true thoughts.

"ACCEPT", you are not STRONG ENOUGH, and WHY, God says..... LEAN ON HIM, which means, STOP,
trying to LET your MIND dredge up, and control, what GOD HAD ALREADY put asunder.

God has ALREADY, divided the thoughts in your MIND, from the thoughts in your heart.
And it is GOD with the POWER to EFFECT "your desires", to WANT, to DO, what is in your heart, and NOT your MIND.

IOW - "YOU" stop TRYING to FIX, and ASK GOD, and ASK GOD, and ASK GOD....
IOW - GOD already HAS the FIX. ASK HIM, what you WANT. He is FAITHFUL.....

Luke 11
[9] And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Be not troubled. Be not afraid. Be not worried.

Pss 55
[22] Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee:

1 Pet 5
[6] Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
[7] Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
[10] But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Be patient. If you have submitted unto the Lord; He (not your mind) is in control of your life. TRUST He is faithful, and HE WILL work within you, what YOUR MIND KEEPS, trying to tell you, isn't so, isn't possible.

God Bless,
SBC

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So you are teaching that you can sin and still be saved so as to overcome living in sin?
How is that working out for you?
Have you found that you stopped sinning physically because of this belief?

Right, so a believer can sleep with prostitutes, get drunk, hate their brother, smoke pot, steal, swear profanities, and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus? Don't worry about how you live, just believe, right? Jesus does the overcoming for you?

SBC said:

Holiness DOES play a part in our Salvation- but to be sure, GOD does not SAVE the HOLY.

God SAVES the UNHOLY, who are dead in trespass and sin.

The SAVING, effected BY OUR GREAT HOLY GOD, does many things TO the man, which results in making the man WHOLLY, WHOLE, and HOLY unto God.

(Which includes, but not limited to, KEEPING the man from EVER AGAIN "sinning". Which I know you disagree with, but, is a fact.

1 Thes 5
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God Bless,
SBC

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Also, it may be just a coincidence, but by the things that you say, you sound a lot like the poster (Who was on here before) called: Stuart Lawrence. Did you once have a name called "Stuart Lawrence" here at Christian Forums?