What is predestination and is it Biblical?

bornagain1973 said:

I have come to believe that certain things are predestinated and it is up to each individual to choose. For instance, Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world so the plan is predestined. However, it is up to whosoever will to choose whether to be in Christ. The church is predestined, but again, we choose whether or not to be saved and added to the church. Too many scriptures to post, but an example would be - you tell a group of people that you are driving a vehicle headed for a certain destination. Now, you invite those who want to go with you into the vehicle. The moment they enter that predestined vehicle, they become predestined. Thank you for allowing me in. I'm new and this is my first post.

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Hi; good to see you on the forums; God bless His Word to you.

Ephesians 1 is a relevant passage here.

faroukfarouk said:

Hi; good to see you on the forums; God bless His Word to you.

Ephesians 1 is a relevant passage here.

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Thank you so much. I just recently found this site and it has some interesting topics.

bornagain1973 said:

Thank you so much. I just recently found this site and it has some interesting topics.

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YW. I'm sure you'll find your way around the forums quickly.

TheSeabass said:

.......... My knowledge of future events/actualities does not cause them to happen no more than my knowledge of past events caused them to happen.

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That's because you aren't God.

You (and nothing else) has the attribute of aseity. You are not self sufficient. You are not omnipresent.

Everything does not have it's existence in your word or decree as it does in God's.

TheSeabass said:

"IF" knowledge of future events requires causation, then all the sin and evil that has taken place was caused by God and this culpability makes God an evil, vile, reprobate sinner.

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I have no problem with using the word "cause" when it comes to God's activities including the occurrence of evil.

That's because I understand that God can be the "first cause" of evil and work through "second causes" without Himself being culpable for the evil. I understand that all that God does is good even though He chooses to work through evil to accomplish that Good.

God says He "crushed" the innocent man Jesus. God did good through that crushing of Jesus. Evil men crucified the innocent man Jesus and accomplished the good that God intended to be accomplished by so doing. Those evil men will be justly held accountable for their evil act and God will be rightly glorified for His righteous act.

I could give a bunch of other examples like Joseph being sold into slavery by God through the evil of Joseph's brothers. God did good and was and will be glorified for that good even though He worked through evil to accomplish that good. The brothers will answer for the evil they did and rightly so.

This is basic concurrent actions of God and the creature stuff from the scriptures. It may be hard to understand fully. But you have a choice to make. Either you can accept the truth of what God says about the matter and teach it the way it is or you can bow your neck and refuse to agree with what God says.

You can refuse to incorporate all of the scriptures into your theology or you can believe and teach it all.

If you will incorporate all of the scriptures into your theology you will be given further insights. If you will not - even what you think you have will be taken away. I.e. whoever has, more will be given to him. But whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken away.

For instance - your views on soteriolgy will be radically effected by whether or not you believe God in these matters.

You can say, as you have, that the truth I see revealed in scripture would make God the author of sin and evil. You can say that it makes Him culpable. You can say that it makes God an evil, vile, reprobate sinner.

Or you can believe what He says and love Him and bend the knee to Him and pronounce Him altogether good even though you don't understand His ways.

Either way - you will bend the knee and agree eventually that God's ways were righteous all along.

Some people's treatment of these kinds of issues remind me a lot of what I imagine the thought process of Adam was.
"God is good and not evil. To place me in a garden with a talking snake who tempts me to eat from a tree which would kill me would make God an evil, vile, and a reprobate sinner.
God isn't those things of course. Therefore I must have heard Him wrong."

He refuses to believe what He heard God say. He thinks God must have said something else.

He acts accordingly - and the beat goes on.

PeaceJoyLove said:

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

I believe He had a plan and purpose since the beginning and that all are somewhere within the process taking place within/ journey of soul to waking up to the Truth...and there is no place that God is not.

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I agree that God had a purpose and plan but that does not translate into God predetermining all that happens. If God predetermined all that happens then God is a sinner, a perpetrator of evil.

Marvin Knox said:

That's because you aren't God.

You (and nothing else) has the attribute of aseity. You are not self sufficient. You are not omnipresent.

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All I said was that knowledge does not require causation and that has not yet been disproven.

Marvin Knox said:

Everything does not have it's existence in your word or decree as it does in God's.

I have no problem with using the word "cause" when it comes to God's activities including the occurrence of evil.

That's because I understand that God can be the "first cause" of evil and work through "second causes" without Himself being culpable for the evil. I understand that all that God does is good even though He chooses to work through evil to accomplish that Good.

God says He "crushed" the innocent man Jesus. God did good through that crushing of Jesus. Evil men crucified the innocent man Jesus and accomplished the good that God intended to be accomplished by so doing. Those evil men will be justly held accountable for their evil act and God will be rightly glorified for His righteous act.

I could give a bunch of other examples like Joseph being sold into slavery by God through the evil of Joseph's brothers. God did good and was and will be glorified for that good even though He worked through evil to accomplish that good. The brothers will answer for the evil they did and rightly so.

This is basic concurrent actions of God and the creature stuff from the scriptures. It may be hard to understand fully. But you have a choice to make. Either you can accept the truth of what God says about the matter and teach it the way it is or you can bow your neck and refuse to agree with what God says.

You can refuse to incorporate all of the scriptures into your theology or you can believe and teach it all.

If you will incorporate all of the scriptures into your theology you will be given further insights. If you will not - even what you think you have will be taken away. I.e. whoever has, more will be given to him. But whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken away.

For instance - your views on soteriolgy will be radically effected by whether or not you believe God in these matters.

You can say, as you have, that the truth I see revealed in scripture would make God the author of sin and evil. You can say that it makes Him culpable. You can say that it makes God an evil, vile, reprobate sinner.

Or you can believe what He says and love Him and bend the knee to Him and pronounce Him altogether good even though you don't understand His ways.

Either way - you will bend the knee and agree eventually that God's ways were righteous all along.

Some people's treatment of these kinds of issues remind me a lot of what I imagine the thought process of Adam was.
"God is good and not evil. To place me in a garden with a talking snake who tempts me to eat from a tree which would kill me would make God an evil, vile, and a reprobate sinner.
God isn't those things of course. Therefore I must have heard Him wrong."

He refuses to believe what He heard God say. He thinks God must have said something else.

He acts accordingly - and the beat goes on.

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--there is no proof anywhere that knowledge requires causation. That is just an erroneous assumption to protect a theological bias.

--God is not the cause of evil, ever. God created man with free will and man abused that free will in choosing to disobey God thereby evil is a 100% cause of man, never God. God is hateful and abhorrent toward evil and cannot cause it, Habakkuk 1:13. 1 John 1:5 light and darkness do not mix.

-- you cannot have God be the first cause of evil then say God has no culpability for evil. Cannot have it both ways. You cannot say God is the cause of evil then say "that God's ways were righteous all along". Again, cannot have it both ways for such has no logical Bible basis. I understand God's ways as explained in the Bible and God's ways are coherent and logical.

PeaceJoyLove said:

For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

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Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."
Romans 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

These two verses go together and give one thought. Verse 29 begins with "for" which is an explanatory preposition giving explanation to what was just said in verse 28.

Verse 28 speaks about a group, Christians...."them that love God" and "them who are the called".

The "for" that verse 29 begins with assures us as to why "all things work together for good" for those that are in the group Christian. That assurance is based upon God foreknowing a class of people and foreknew this class of people would be conformed to the image of His Son. This group would pattern their life after the life of Christ. There is no individual who is outside the group yet has unconditionally been conformed to the image of the Son, who is "in Christ", "holy and without blame" or a "son" of God, Ephesians 1:4-5. Therefore those in the group, those that "love God", "the called" have this assurance that all things work together for good.

TheSeabass said:

I agree that God had a purpose and plan but that does not translate into God predetermining all that happens. If God predetermined all that happens then God is a sinner, a perpetrator of evil.

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God made Adam in His own image and look what happened. God also made a way (back)...which I believe He purposed in Himself from the beginning. There are two minds within/duality...did God not make them to be so? Carnal mind is hostile to God, but God loved us while we were yet sinners.

All things work together for good whether we can 'see' it or not. Is not God's plan "every knee shall bow"? God is good. "Behold the lamb slain before the foundation of the world."

That people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.

The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

I see it all part of His purpose since the beginning...

TheSeabass said:

All I said was that knowledge does not require causation and that has not yet been disproven.

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I have said that knowledge of possibilities does not require causation. It is an inherent attribute of God - who, Himself has no cause.

TheSeabass said:

--there is no proof anywhere that knowledge requires causation. That is just an erroneous assumption to protect a theological bias.

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I have explained in great deal how the Word of God shows causation of everything that actually happens and in fact His Word is that very cause.

What theological bias would that be you speak of?

TheSeabass said:

--God is not the cause of evil, ever.

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Call them by different terms than "first cause" and "second cause" - if it offends you and you can come up with another more concise one. The simple fact is that God has decreed that the good He does will be accomplished by evil.

"He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth. But the Lord was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; if He would render Himself as a guilt offering." Isaiah 53:9&10

"This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death." Acts 2:23

TheSeabass said:

God created man with free will and man abused that free will in choosing to disobey God thereby evil is a 100% cause of man, never God.

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As they say at Gieco, "everyone knows that".

Do you not know by now that I agree with the scriptures that God is not the author of evil? I have said it many times.

TheSeabass said:

-- you cannot have God be the first cause of evil then say God has no culpability for evil. Cannot have it both ways.

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God is the one who says both things. Take it up with Him.

TheSeabass said:

You cannot say God is the cause of evil then say "that God's ways were righteous all along."

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If you can find a better way to say it than what the Westminster Confession of Faith says, by all means say it that way. Just don't ignore the truth or twist it so far to your comfort that God becomes less than the God of the scriptures.

"God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established........God the great Creator of all things does uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge, and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy..... Although, in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly; yet, by the same providence, He orders them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently..... God, in His ordinary providence, makes use of means, yet is free to work without, above, and against them, at His pleasure."

Good, thorough theologians must incorporate all that the scriptures teach into their theology. They don't have the luxury of ignoring biblical concepts which they are uncomfortable with. Nor do they have to explain to your satisfaction exactly how the unsearchable ways of God work or why He has chosen to do some things the way He has.

PeaceJoyLove said:

God made Adam in His own image and look what happened. God also made a way (back)...which I believe He purposed in Himself from the beginning. There are two minds within/duality...did God not make them to be so? Carnal mind is hostile to God, but God loved us while we were yet sinners.

All things work together for good whether we can 'see' it or not. Is not God's plan "every knee shall bow"? God is good. "Behold the lamb slain before the foundation of the world."

That people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.

The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

I see it all part of His purpose since the beginning...

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Proverbs 16:4 "The LORD hath made (pa'al) all things for himself:( ma`aneh) yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

The Hebrew word "ma' aneh" means to give an answer or a response.
The Hebrew word pa'al means to work out.

So the meaning of verse 4 is that God works out all things where that the wicked will have to give an answer/response for their wickedness.

Proverbs 1:1-3,5
"(1)The plans of the heart belong to man; But the answer of the tongue is from Jehovah.
(2) All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; But Jehovah weigheth the spirits.
(3) Commit thy works unto Jehovah, And thy purposes shall be established.
(5) Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to Jehovah:
Though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished."

The verses leading up to verse 4 shows man's free will in making plans in his own heart, seeing his own ways are clean, being proud in his own heart:

Man is innocent in his own eyes but the Lord will weight the spirits.
Man is to commit to the Lord the work man chooses to do.
Everyone will give an answer/response for the work they do, even the evil.
The proud in heart will have to answer and will not go unpunished.

Verse 4 does not say God created wicked people just so He can punish them. Such an idea goes against the nature of God, Ezekiel 33:11; Psalms 145:9.

The Lord has worked out that all things will give an answer to Him, even the wicked. Yet if men will fear the Lord, men can depart evil, Proverbs 16:6. Men can choose to please the Lord Proverbs 16:7.


Proverbs 16:9
A man’s heart deviseth his way;
But Jehovah directeth his steps.

Proverbs 16:17
The highway of the upright is to depart from evil:
He that keepeth his way preserveth his soul.

Proverbs 16:32
He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty;
And he that ruleth his spirit, than he that taketh a city.

No Calvinism is to be found in Proverbs 16 at all.

TheSeabass said:

Proverbs 16:4 "The LORD hath made (pa'al) all things for himself:( ma`aneh) yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

The Hebrew word "ma' aneh" means to give an answer or a response.
The Hebrew word pa'al means to work out.

So the meaning of verse 4 is that God works out all things where that the wicked will have to give an answer/response for their wickedness.

Proverbs 1:1-3,5
"(1)The plans of the heart belong to man; But the answer of the tongue is from Jehovah.
(2) All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; But Jehovah weigheth the spirits.
(3) Commit thy works unto Jehovah, And thy purposes shall be established.
(5) Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to Jehovah:
Though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished."

The verses leading up to verse 4 shows man's free will in making plans in his own heart, seeing his own ways are clean, being proud in his own heart:

Man is innocent in his own eyes but the Lord will weight the spirits.
Man is to commit to the Lord the work man chooses to do.
Everyone will give an answer/response for the work they do, even the evil.
The proud in heart will have to answer and will not go unpunished.

Verse 4 does not say God created wicked people just so He can punish them. Such an idea goes against the nature of God, Ezekiel 33:11; Psalms 145:9.

The Lord has worked out that all things will give an answer to Him, even the wicked. Yet if men will fear the Lord, men can depart evil, Proverbs 16:6. Men can choose to please the Lord Proverbs 16:7.


Proverbs 16:9
A man’s heart deviseth his way;
But Jehovah directeth his steps.

Proverbs 16:17
The highway of the upright is to depart from evil:
He that keepeth his way preserveth his soul.

Proverbs 16:32
He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty;
And he that ruleth his spirit, than he that taketh a city.

No Calvinism is to be found in Proverbs 16 at all.

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I am not a Calvinist.

Marvin Knox said:

I have said that knowledge of possibilities does not require causation. It is an inherent attribute of God - who, Himself has no cause.

I have explained in great deal how the Word of God shows causation of everything that actually happens and in fact His Word is that very cause.

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No one has shown a single Bible verse that says God has determined, predestined all things that have happened. Such a verse does not exist.

What theological bias would that be you speak of?

Marvin Knox said:

Call them by different terms than "first cause" and "second cause" - if it offends you and you can come up with another more concise one. The simple fact is that God has decreed that the good He does will be accomplished by evil.

"He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth. But the Lord was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; if He would render Himself as a guilt offering." Isaiah 53:9&10

"This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death." Acts 2:23

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It was predetermined and foreknown by God that Christ would be nailed to a cross. Yet no verse says God determined those Jews and Romans would crucify Christ against their will. God in HIs foreknowledge know those Jews and Romans, if given the opportunity, would choose of their own free will to crucify the Christ. When Christ came among them they of their own free will chose to crucify Him. God simply used their free will choice to accomplish what He predetermined and foreknew in Christ dying on the cross. This is why Peter says to these Jews " ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain" and "that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." Peter says to these Jews that YOU have taken by wicked hands YOU crucified the Lord becasue it was THEIR free will choice. Yet if God had made those Jews to crucify Christ against their will, then Peter unjustly condemned them for then it would have been God's wicked hands that committed this murder of the Messiah. It would be unjust to hold the Jews accountable for what was forced upon them by God.

Marvin Knox said:

As they say at Gieco, "everyone knows that".

Do you not know by now that I agree with the scriptures that God is not the author of evil? I have said it many times.

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If God determined all things that have happened, then God would be the author of evil.

Marvin Knox said:

God is the one who says both things. Take it up with Him.

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You said it, not God.

Marvin Knox said:

If you can find a better way to say it than what the Westminster Confession of Faith says, by all means say it that way. Just don't ignore the truth or twist it so far to your comfort that God becomes less than the God of the scriptures.

"God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established........God the great Creator of all things does uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by His most wise and holy providence, according to His infallible foreknowledge, and the free and immutable counsel of His own will, to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy..... Although, in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly; yet, by the same providence, He orders them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently..... God, in His ordinary providence, makes use of means, yet is free to work without, above, and against them, at His pleasure."

Good, thorough theologians must incorporate all that the scriptures teach into their theology. They don't have the luxury of ignoring biblical concepts which they are uncomfortable with. Nor do they have to explain to your satisfaction exactly how the unsearchable ways of God work or why He has chosen to do some things the way He has.

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The Westminster Confession of Faith is uninspired drivel that did not come by inspiration from the Holy Spirit of God. It was not taught by Christ nor His Apostles. It should raise a large red flag to anyone who has to go outside of inspiration to find support for a personal theological bias. The WCF is an insulting assault against the very good, holy nature and character of God.

PeaceJoyLove said:

I am not a Calvinist.

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Good.

Yet the idea that God has predetermined some men to sin whereby God can then punish them is pure Calvinism.

TheSeabass said:

Therefore God has graciously made salvation to be found within the foreknown group and left it up to man to choose to be in the group or not.

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Once again quoting your doctrine and not Scripture. And there is no Scripture that explicitly supports that doctrine. There is in fact Scripture which explicitly says that God has chosen and predestined us. No real wiggle room there. We believe what it says of you don't, no matter how clever the sophistry we use to try and evade it. Predestine does not mean foreknow, even if we chant it like a mantra. Predestine means "to destine, decree, determine, appoint, or settle beforehand". No way to make it mean "know what's going to happen beforehand". To try to conflate the two is, at best, intellectually dishonest.

Zat mean that God has decreed everything that happens, good or bad, from the beginning? Nope, nor does Scripture say any such thing. No "kismet", and human will in full effect, as we prove every time we sin. Will, but not free will. Don't believe it? Just try not sinning for a while and see how free your will is. Ask anyone who's ever tried to give up a pernicious habit. Free will? Ha!

Romans 7
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

St. Paul willed not to sin, but he still sinned. His will was not free to prevent him from sinning. So it is with us all. We are saved by the grace and mercy of God.

Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

"Free will" not only doesn't save us, it's the misuse of free will that separates us from God in the first place. God does the saving, not us. Not our free will, not our niceness, not our zeal, not anything we do at all. Nothing. We are the poor victims being swept away by Niagara, being turned in all directions, slammed against rocks, gasping for air and breathing water, and finally flung over the precipice to be beaten into nonexistence on the rocks below. No act of will, free or otherwise, can alter our course or make our doom any less certain. If we aren't rescued by someone other than ourselves we must inevitably be destroyed.

For by grace we are saved, not of ourselves: it is the gift of God.

We like to think that we are saved by our free will because we like to believe that somehow we deserve to be saved. "I saw the light", "I have decided...", "I found it", "I accepted Christ", we want ourselves to be the center of things, and above all to think well of ourselves.

Now maybe I'm dirty, and maybe I smoke a little dope.
It ain't like I'm going on TV and tearing pictures of the pope.
I know I get wild and I know I get drunk.
But it ain't like I gotta bunch of bodies in my trunk.
My old man used to call me a no-good punk
And I still don't know why.
I know I ain't perfect, but
I think I'm an alright guy.
I think I'm alright. -- Todd Snider, "Alright Guy"

That's all of us in a nutshell. And on top of that, we want to believe that we contributed to our own salvation.

Jipsah said:

Once again quoting your doctrine and not Scripture. And there is no Scripture that explicitly supports that doctrine. There is in fact Scripture which explicitly says that God has chosen and predestined us. No real wiggle room there. We believe what it says of you don't, no matter how clever the sophistry we use to try and evade it. Predestine does not mean foreknow, even if we chant it like a mantra. Predestine means "to destine, decree, determine, appoint, or settle beforehand". No way to make it mean "know what's going to happen beforehand". To try to conflate the two is, at best, intellectually dishonest.

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Amen!

And I add also:

"The word "prooizoo" means properly "to set bounds to"

"The Chosen . . . For Such a Time like This, By Uwemedimo Ekaette, Chapter 5, The Purpose of Predestination, p. 32

"to pre-determine. There is the essential idea of setting bounds or limits and of doing it beforehand"

Albert Barnes, Notes, Explanatory and Practical, on the Epistles of Paul to the Ephesians. Chapter 1, p. 23

And as Christians, scriptures tell us exactly what those boundaries are.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Jipsah said:

Lessee, your "feels" or what the Bible says. Hmmmm.. I think I'll go with the Bible.

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I wonder if there was a friendlier way to say that.

So Cliche said:

I wonder if there was a friendlier way to say that.

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Feels...hum.

The statement was made:

"do you feel that ?"

Let me show something about "feel".

A long time ago, a man came to church. He was wearing his overhalls, and he was dirty. By all indications, he enjoyed the sermon and the people there.

At the end of the service, as usual, some always gather to "socialize". A male member of the congregation came up to him and told him that he needed to quit smoking. The man didn't say a word, but silently turned around and walked away.

A deacon overheard what the member said.

He confronted him saying: "What in the world made you say such a thing?!?"

He replied: "I felt led by the Lord to say it."

The deacon replied: "He did no such thing! Do you how many years we would go by that mans house as he sat on the porch and invite him to church? And then, on the very first time he attends, you say what you say and drive the man away. The Lord would not have led you say that knowing that this was the first time he came to church."

One cannot reply on feelings. Feelings can be fooled. Feelings can cause one to act irrationally, out of impulse. Feelings can cause more harm than good.

I may "feel" good at this exact minute, but in 10 minutes I may have a massive heart attack.

God Bless

Till all are one.

TheSeabass said:

God's planned purpose for salvation is found within the group called Christian and not unconditionally in the individual apart from the group.

Romans 14:11-12 is a scene of judgement day where "each one of us shall give account of himself to God". We each as individuals will give account for our free will choices we made whether those choices are good or bad. No one will give account for what was forced upon him/her by God thru predetermination/predestination.

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Yet it is God who wills, and not our perceived will...HE humbles and HE exalts in due time. How do you reconcile "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess"?

Speaking to living and dying in a physical sense gives us a different perception than knowing we are all spiritual beings (whether we have awakened to that truth or not) and what happened to Adam in the garden was spiritual death/separation from God, not physical death...

Paul said God gave every man a measure of faith. (And are somewhere within the journey of their soul/process taking place within...as it relates to "every knee shall bow...") And Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

"The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will."

I suppose you could say we have free will until our will has been set free...

Calvin's interpretation of PRE-DESTINATION resulted in FALSE DOCTRINE. It is contrary to the true Biblical doctrine of "free will".

GOD FORE-KNOWS ALL (omniscient)
GOD irrevocably PRE-DETERMINES nothing.

Proverbs 15:29
The Lord is far from the wicked, But He hears the prayer of the righteous.

James 5:16
...The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

1 Peter 3:12
“For the eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous, And His ears attend to their prayer, But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”