Few will be saved?

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2017

Marvin Knox said:
Holy cow! I challenged you on the suicide thing and you gave me the whole enchilada again.

It is writen,

"Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people." (Jude 1:3) (NLT).

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1:3) (KJV).

You said:
I know well what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is. It is you who seem to think that suicide is it. All sins can and will be forgiven except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Suicide can be forgiven in some cases because they can come back from the dead to repent of such a sin. But there is also the sin of apostasy that cannot be forgiven (Hebrews 6:4-6), and then there is also those who worship of the beast whose names were never even written in the Lamb's book of life since the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8). So these guys cannot be forgiven.

Jesus was not speaking exhaustively of all sins. The context was primarily focusing on blasphemy (i.e. speaking bad words about God).

The word "all" does not always mean "all" in the Bible. Here are some examples of where "all" does not mean "all."

Mark 1:5 "And there went out to him ALL the land of Judea, and they of Jerusalem and were ALL baptized in the river Jordan"

John 8:2 "And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and ALL the people came unto him; and he sat down and taught them."

Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of ALL men for my name's sake."

John 3:26 "And they came unto John and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou bearest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and ALL men came to him."

You said:
Therefore, since you say that suicide cannot be forgiven, you are equating suicide with blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Nope. That is not what I am saying. You are putting words in my mouth about what I believe after I already told you what I believe.

You said:
Now - I understand that your strange religion has God forgiving the first million or so sins in a large block the first time you believe on Jesus.At that point, if a person were to die, they would find themselves in Heaven with God rather than Hell as they would have before. That part is right on.

What is strange about your belief is that it allows for sin when God cannot agree with sin.
Yes, God can forgive our past sins if we have a Godly sorrow and ask for His forgiveness and we believe in the gospel and receive Jesus as our Savior. After that, we have to continue in the goodness of Christ (i.e. forsake sin and do good works).

You said:
But you also believe that a person loses that salvation as soon as he sins and must believe on Jesus again to be forgiven the particular sin which caused them to be going to Hell now. If they die before they confess and receive forgiveness for that further sin - there is no chance for confession and repentance in this life and they find themselves in Hell.

To be more precise: They need to repent of their grevious sins (i.e. they need to confess their serious sins with the intent that they are going to truly forsake them). If they are abiding in serious sin and they are not repenting of these sins then they are abiding in death and not life. Scripture says this in many places. Not sure how you cannot see that unless you don't want to see that.

One example is Peter and Simon.

Peter tells Simon to pray to God so as to repent of his wickedness for trying to pay for the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

You said:
That makes your religion amount to a very much different religion than mine.

I realize that.

You said:
Your religion reminds me a lot of the religion of Mother Theresa who traveled with a priest who could quickly give her absolution if she fell deathly ill or had an accident which appeared to make death immanent. She did this so she would not have to go into either purgatory or Hell when she died.Her memoirs show her last years to be the most miserable rendition of Christianity than I have ever heard of.

God is the giver and taker of life. His goal is to give man enough space and time to repent. God knows a person's heart and what they will do. So there are no accidental deaths whereby somebody dies without God giving somebody the chance to repent. God is sovereign. Oh, and no. My belief in the Bible is in no way like Catholicism. None of the traditions of the Catholic church can be seen in the Bible. Not even the one you mentioned. But we do see Scripture say that we have to keep Christ's words so as not to see death.

Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death." (John 8:51)

Now, it is obvious here that Jesus was not referring to physical death here because many righteous believers have remained faithful at the cost of their own physical lives. In other words, they died physically.

Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.(Revelation 2:10-11).

The "second death" is the Lake of Fire according to Revelation 21:8.

Spiritual death is also mentioned in 1 Timothy 5:6 by the apostle Paul. He says,

"But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives."

Right after these words, Paul then tells us about how a certain group of widows have turned away from their faithfulness to Jesus (1 Timothy 5:11) to then follow after Satan (1 Timothy 5:15). Now, stop and think for a moment. An unbeliever cannot turn away and follow after Satan if they are already within his grip.

You said:
You have managed to take her horrible false religious view of what salvation is all about and bring it over to "evangelical" Protestantism and even do it one better in it's terrible theology.

I just read and believe the Bible. Thank you.
You are falsely accusing me of things that only exist in your own mind.
But I will rejoice in God my Savior for the evil you speak against me.

You said:
I've done a lot more than just hit the disagree button. I have told you plainly why your false rendition of Christianity is from the pit of Hell.

No. You gave me mostly your opinion and you did not address a good majority of the verses I put forth towards you and explained with the Bible. Opinion is not the same as Scripture.

You said:
You not only warn about the need to be totally sanctified or suffer loss. All evangelicals teach and warn about that.

You also judge those who fail to live up to the demands of you strange religion by saying that they are bound for Hell if they do not confess and repent before death befalls them. Shades of Mother Theresa.

Not even close because I do not agree with the practice you quoted. Nowhere do we see a priest ever having to hang out with another believer to forgive them. Scripture simply says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). There is no such thing as Catholic confession according to the Bible.

You said:
Then, if a person is so overcome by the cares of this world that he sadly commits suicide, you follow him into the grave and condemn him there as well.

Not me. It is the Word of God that condemns them. It is those verses you said were wafer thin, and yet you never really offered any explanation as to why they were wafer thin with Scripture or anything. I was just supposed to take your word for it or something.

You said:
Everyone who believes in the eternal security of believers also believes that sanctification is part of the salvation process.

There are different flavors of OSAS or Eternal Security. Classic OSAS teaches that you can sin as much as you want and still be saved. Mid Range OSAS teaches that you have to generally live a holy life but dying in one or two unrepentant sins (like lying or lusting after a woman) will not necessarily send you to hell. Then there is OSAS Lite that teaches that you have to live holy or you were never born again to begin with. Then there are those who do not believe in OSAS and yet they think sin does not separate a believer from God. They think only apostasy or walking away from God is the only way to become unsaved. The problem with these beliefs is one can serve God and also hold onto their sins in some way. But Jesus says you cannot serve two masters. The Bible teaches you can overcome sin. The Bible teaches that Sanctification is a necessary part of the salvation process. So Sanctification is not the same in these religions compared to what the Bible actually teaches. In OSAS, holiness is whatever somebody wants it to mean.

You said:
You have an extremely shallow theological definition of the word "salvation". That's part of your problem.

Shallow is the way I would describe the OSAS religion because it says you can sin and still be saved. So when they tell people to follow the Bible, they are basically not telling the truth. They say that nobody can keep God's commands and yet, there are close to 1,000 commands in the New Testament. Why would there be that many commands if faith was all about just believing? It doesn't add up. Jesus says, if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). I believe Jesus when He says this. How about you? Do you believe these words from Jesus?

You said:
Just as I have for Mother Theresa before you - I pray that you will be allowed into Heaven in spite of your strange view of the believer's relationship with God through Christ.

There is no guessing about my salvation or the salvation of others. The Word of God is clear in what it says. 1 John 2:3-4. A person can have an assurance in knowing Him if they find that you are keeping His commandments. But if they say they know Jesus and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them. OSAS says you do not have to keep God's commandments. Right here sirens should be going off for you, but you have bought into this belief hook line and sinker. But you cannot explain the plain straight forward meaning of the many verses that I have put forth towards you. Hence, why you primarily give me opinion and not Scripture.

You said:
There are many people I disagree with and debate about eternal security vs. believers willingly leaving the Lord and becoming lost. I don't doubt that they are saved - even though I believe they are wrong about that.

But you, and quite a few others in this forum, seem to have crossed the line from simply believing that a person could conceivably leave the Lord and be lost

The Bible talks alot about falling away from the faith.

Here is a list of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith.

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (in the sense of like how one would misplace one's car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)

Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)

Ananias (Acts 5:1-11)

Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)

Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)

Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)

Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)

The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).

You said:
and preaching a religion of works.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

You said:
Jesus is in your religion somehow.

I told you before that Christ saves both in Justification and in Sanctification. He is a central part of my faith according to the Holy Scriptures.

You said:
But He is not the savior most evangelical Christians believe in.

Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that finds it.

You said:
I hope God's grace reaches far enough to save you. I'm just not so sure about that.

Many will call Him Lord and point to the many good works they did in life in His name. He will tell them that He never knew them.

They were workers of iniquity in that they believed and preached another gospel - which in reality was no gospel at all.

No. They were workers of iniquity because they are abiding in sin. That is what iniquity is. Sin. Jesus says in verse 26-27 that if a person does not do what He says they are like a fool who built their house upon the sand. So am I going to be condemned for obeying Jesus? Jesus warned that if a person looks upon another in lust, their whole body could be cast into hellfire. Yet, you are saying that this is not the case somehow because you believe a saint is forever saved. Please read Matthew 7 again. The point is not OSAS but it is about not doing what Jesus says.

You said:
I doubt that any who have ever been true believers will find themselves lost when they meet Him face to face - because they were not able to overcome a particular sin in their life, or because they fell victim to a melancholy which eventually caused them to take their life.

I don't doubt though that a great many who are depending on their own works along with that of Christ rather than trusting in the work of Jesus alone for their salvation will be in for a rude awakening when they meet the Lord.

That is the thing you don't get. The work of Christ is what I trust alone. Jesus saves in Justification and in Sanctification. All good that is done in a believer's life is by Jesus Christ. So there is no "my works" alone. They are Christ's works.

lsume · Oct 7, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
How often and how many does YHWH SAY in SCRIPTURE
ARE the ekklesia (immersed ones) living in the assemblies in YESHUA called and chosen and set apart (out from the world) by YHWH HIMSELF
and they all (while still on earth)
ARE LIVING IN UNION, as ONE, (ECHAD) WITH YESHUA ?

As I recall, somewhere on this blog perhaps, I brought up a comparison from The Word between the 8 souls saved from the flood and those Heaven bound. The meek shall inherit the earth. Those who inherit the earth must not be in heaven at that moment.

lsume · Oct 7, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
How often and how many does YHWH SAY in SCRIPTURE
ARE the ekklesia (immersed ones) living in the assemblies in YESHUA called and chosen and set apart (out from the world) by YHWH HIMSELF
and they all (while still on earth)
ARE LIVING IN UNION, as ONE, (ECHAD) WITH YESHUA ?

How can someone who has truly been born again and therefore know the fear of The Lord and understand that through much tribulation shall they inherit The Kingdom of Heaven ever explain these things to someone who has yet to experience them?

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 7, 2017

lsume said:
How can someone who has truly been born again and therefore know the fear of The Lord and understand that through much tribulation shall they inherit The Kingdom of Heaven ever explain these things to someone who has yet to experience them?

The exact same way they did in the first century if you like. (there may be few or many other ways.) .

Luke 8:39 - Bible Gateway
Luke 8:39 - Bible Gateway - Cached - Similar
“Go back to your home and tell how much God has done for you.” He went away proclaiming throughout the whole town how much Yeshua had done for him.
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1 Corinthians 9:16 - Bible Gateway
1 Corinthians 9:16 - Bible Gateway - Cached - Similar
For if I [merely] preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast about, for I am compelled [that is, absolutely obligated to do it]. Woe to me if I do not preach the good ...
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1 Corinthians 1:23 ESV - but we preach Christ crucified, a - Bible ...
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 1 - New International Version... - Cached - Similar
but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,
--------------------------------
Acts 17:16-34 - In Athens - While Paul was waiting for - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 17:16-34 - Cached - Similar
In Athens - While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols.
--------------------------------
Acts 15:21 - Bible Gateway - Cached
For Moses from olden times hath in every city those who preach him, he being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day.”

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 7, 2017

lsume said:
As I recall, somewhere on this blog perhaps, I brought up a comparison from The Word between the 8 souls saved from the flood and those Heaven bound. The meek shall inherit the earth. Those who inherit the earth must not be in heaven at that moment.

ooops...... that's a common mis-conception, and a rather awkward and long story not for this forum tonight....

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2017

SBC said:
Gods moral laws? ~
Thou shall not murder? Murder is the killing of the innocent.
FYI - no one is innocent. If that were so, there would be no need for Gods Grace.
People are either guilty, or not guilty. No one is innocent.

Then you just contradicted yourself.

You said murder is the killing of the innocent and yet nobody is innocent.
Then why did God tell Israel, "You shalt not murder." if it was not possible for them to murder? Does it make sense for God to give them laws that do not apply to them?

You said:
Gods moral laws? ~
Some say, Thou shall not kill.

It was always wrong to murder another person outside of God's say so.
Abel and Cain is a great example of this from the beginning.
Do you think Cain did not murder his brother?

You said:
Killing ~ Men who kill or be killed ~ military ~ police ~ castle doctrine of man protecting his home, his property, his family.

Romans 13 talks about how countries are placed into power and have the ability to punish those who do certain evils. Paul warns us believers about we are to do good and not evil, because if we do evil, these governments are like an arm of justice from God that can punish us. Sort of like when Assyria had punished Israel for their sins.

Under the New Testament, believers are supposed to be pacifists.

You said:
Killing ~

1 Sam 15:
[3] Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

This is not murder. God was instructing the Israelites to take life. God is the giver and taker of life. He decides whose life is at end or not. Murder is when we decide to take life outside of God's approval or permission.

I mean, why do you think the world was destroyed by a global flood if not for them breaking God's moral laws? Have you ever read 2 Peter 2:5-6 recently?

You said:
Matt 17
[20] And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Yet, Peter did not successfully walk on the water the whole time like he should have.
Also, James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
So you need to have more than just a belief alone in order to have true faith.
James says we are justified by works and not by faith only (James 2:24).

You said:
Those are BIG "IF'S" ! Once those "IF'S" are accomplished..... How do you conclude, that God will go back on His own accomplishment of Forgiving a man ALL of his sins?

In 1 John 1:9, the idea here is that you confess, God will then forgive you. For if we confess, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. So this is not a one time event. John says in 1 John 2:1 to: "sin not." He then says if you do sin, you have an advocate Jesus Christ that you can go to. Also, nowhere will you find a Scripture verse that says "future sin is forgiven you." The idea was always "repentance." Jesus told people to repent. Peter told Simon to repent and yet Simon was a believer.

You said:
How about David, who killed men? And as king, David plotted to kill?

David repented of his murder and adultery in Psalms 51. David did not continue to be a murderer and an adulterer.

You said:
How about Abraham, when he went to rescue Lot?

Did the Sodomites desire a peaceful solution? No. They held Lot captive.
So they were doing wrong. Melchizedek told Abraham that God blessed his efforts in delivering the enemies into his hand (Genesis 14:20). So obviously Abraham was acting in accordance with God's will.

You said:
This is a disagreement between you and I concerning SIN.

Sin is ONLY a transgress AGAINST GOD.
And ONLY God can forgive SIN, precisely because SIN is a transgression AGAINST GOD.

Men who transgress AGAINST men is called a TRESPASS, and Men are supposed to forgive each other, for their OWN trespasses, and for those who trespass AGAINST them.
Men, DO NOT FORGIVE SIN.

Nope. Scripture says you can sin against your brother.

"Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him." (Leviticus 19:17).

"Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?" (Matthew 18:21).

You said:
Our Transgression, ie OUR SIN, against God, begins at our natural birth. We do not BELIEVE in God, when we are naturally Born. That IS OUR Transgression AGAINST GOD.......NOT BELIEVING!

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

5 "...God;
6...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law..."
(Romans 2:5-12).

You said:
The WHOLE point of hearing, learning, reading, is to Learn ABOUT GOD, that we may elect TO CHOOSE, to Believe in God, and TELL HIM! And the VERY FIRST thing we are taught IS TO ASK GOD FOR FORGIVENESS, of OUR SIN AGAINST GOD, of our Disbelief!

No. A simple prayer of asking Christ's forgiveness and believing the gospel is all it takes to be saved initally. But a person from that point has to continue to walk with Christ in His good ways, though. If they turn back to a life of sin, their repentance was not genuine.

You said:
Additionally, God FORGIVES, the living soul He has imparted into our body, which quickened our own life of our body (ie BLOOD). As our own life (blood, body), is in the process of growing, WE are by default of having Gods living soul within us; we are corrupting our living soul.

By Gods Grace; When we confess to God, BELIEF IN HIM; He forgives, our corrupt flesh, then kills it.
(crucified with Christ); Because ONLY that which IS DEAD, can become BORN "AGAIN".
He further, By His Grace; forgives us of corrupting the Living soul, He has imparted into our body.

To be born again is to be spiritually renewed. It is to have a new heart like Ezekiel talks about. You know that whole thing about how God will cause you to keep His commandments? Or did you miss that part of the Bible?

You said:
Thus, we have a restored soul, SAVED unto God, and by default SAVED from destruction.

Then, does God do His wondrous, powerful, gracious works within us; He gives us a new Heart. WHY?
Because the heart of man, IS where the mans "natural" spirit is.
And what IS a man's "natural" spirit?
It is simply a man's "natural" truth.
While a man CAN have "truth's" in his MIND'S thoughts; A man can ALSO have lies and deceit in his "MINDS" thoughts.
It is in a mans heart, where a mans TRUTH IS. A man can KEEP his truth secret, while LYING, Deceiving, Cheating, Tricking, from the Thoughts in his MIND.

WHEN a MAN confesses his belief IN GOD, to God, WHERE does God want to hear THE thought of that confession coming from? The man's MIND? No. The man's HEART.

WHERE does God go LOOK to SEE where a man's confession coming from? A man's mind? No, a man's heart.

So what is the point of MEN receiving a NEW Heart? It is no secret, mankind IS LIMITED, on knowledge, wisdom, understanding, truths. We have to gather information, and then decide whether or not we think it is true.

But with a NEW HEART - God has given us, an "unblemished" vessel, perfect for HIS SEED to be planted. Perfect for our NEW "born again spirit" to begin a SPIRITUAL life with Gods own Spirit with HIS Truth, His Knowledge, His Wisdom, His Understanding. Our own 24-7 Spirit of God within our own new Heart. <--- THAT is the whole matter, of walking in the spirit!

A body Dead, (yet sanctified, washed in Jesus' blood, our sins forgiven and covered, justified, kept with Christ, for the day of redemption and changing).

A forgiven living soul, forever with the Lord, to never again be separated from God, or experience destruction.

A born again everlasting spirit for us;
By the Seed of thee most High, Priest, King, Mighty, Everlasting, Faithful, Holy God.
Who, shall NEVER depart from us.
AND, WHOSE POWER IN US, shall FOREVER, keep us IN STANDING WITH HIM.

Being born again is being a new person whereby you don't live like the old man.

You said:
THIS is WHY, a man "born of God"....can NEVER AGAIN SIN!

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Sin is Against God. And Gods OWN Spirit, His OWN Power, will forever KEEP "whosoever", from SIN.

Uh, no. You are ripping that verse out of context. The next verse says,

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

Whosever does not righteousness is not of God. That is the context. So your interpretation on 1 John 3:9 is false.

Anyways, if you don't get what I am saying after this post, I think it is best to agree to disagree and part ways. So far it appears like you don't want to see what Scripture says plainly. I do hope I am wrong and that you will change, though.

May God's love shine upon you tonight;
And may you please be well.

Marvin Knox · Oct 7, 2017

Jason0047 said:
It is writen,

"Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to his holy people." (Jude 1:3) (NLT).

"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1:3) (KJV).

Suicide can be forgiven in some cases because they can come back from the dead to repent of such a sin. But there is also the sin of apostasy that cannot be forgiven (Hebrews 6:4-6), and then there is also those who worship of the beast whose names were never even written in the Lamb's book of life since the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8). So these guys cannot be forgiven.

Jesus was not speaking exhaustively of all sins. The context was primarily focusing on blasphemy (i.e. speaking bad words about God).

The word "all" does not always mean "all" in the Bible. Here are some examples of where "all" does not mean "all."

Mark 1:5 "And there went out to him ALL the land of Judea, and they of Jerusalem and were ALL baptized in the river Jordan"

John 8:2 "And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and ALL the people came unto him; and he sat down and taught them."

Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of ALL men for my name's sake."

John 3:26 "And they came unto John and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou bearest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and ALL men came to him."

Nope. That is not what I am saying. You are putting words in my mouth about what I believe after I already told you what I believe.

What is strange about your belief is that it allows for sin when God cannot agree with sin.
Yes, God can forgive our past sins if we have a Godly sorrow and ask for His forgiveness and we believe in the gospel and receive Jesus as our Savior. After that, we have to continue in the goodness of Christ (i.e. forsake sin and do good works).

To be more precise: They need to repent of their grevious sins (i.e. they need to confess their serious sins with the intent that they are going to truly forsake them). If they are abiding in serious sin and they are not repenting of these sins then they are abiding in death and not life. Scripture says this in many places. Not sure how you cannot see that unless you don't want to see that.

One example is Peter and Simon.

Peter tells Simon to pray to God so as to repent of his wickedness for trying to pay for the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

"Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee." (Acts of the Apostles 8:22).

I realize that.

God is the giver and taker of life. His goal is to give man enough space and time to repent. God knows a person's heart and what they will do. So there are no accidental deaths whereby somebody dies without God giving somebody the chance to repent. God is sovereign. Oh, and no. My belief in the Bible is in no way like Catholicism. None of the traditions of the Catholic church can be seen in the Bible. Not even the one you mentioned. But we do see Scripture say that we have to keep Christ's words so as not to see death.

Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death." (John 8:51)

Now, it is obvious here that Jesus was not referring to physical death here because many righteous believers have remained faithful at the cost of their own physical lives. In other words, they died physically.

Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.(Revelation 2:10-11).

The "second death" is the Lake of Fire according to Revelation 21:8.

Spiritual death is also mentioned in 1 Timothy 5:6 by the apostle Paul. He says,

"But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives."

Right after these words, Paul then tells us about how a certain group of widows have turned away from their faithfulness to Jesus (1 Timothy 5:11) to then follow after Satan (1 Timothy 5:15). Now, stop and think for a moment. An unbeliever cannot turn away and follow after Satan if they are already within his grip.

I just read and believe the Bible. Thank you.
You are falsely accusing me of things that only exist in your own mind.
But I will rejoice in God my Savior for the evil you speak against me.

No. You gave me mostly your opinion and you did not address a good majority of the verses I put forth towards you and explained with the Bible. Opinion is not the same as Scripture.

Not even close because I do not agree with the practice you quoted. Nowhere do we see a priest ever having to hang out with another believer to forgive them. Scripture simply says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). There is no such thing as Catholic confession according to the Bible.

Not me. It is the Word of God that condemns them. It is those verses you said were wafer thin, and yet you never really offered any explanation as to why they were wafer thin with Scripture or anything. I was just supposed to take your word for it or something.

There are different flavors of OSAS or Eternal Security. Classic OSAS teaches that you can sin as much as you want and still be saved. Mid Range OSAS teaches that you have to generally live a holy life but dying in one or two unrepentant sins (like lying or lusting after a woman) will not necessarily send you to hell. Then there is OSAS Lite that teaches that you have to live holy or you were never born again to begin with. Then there are those who do not believe in OSAS and yet they think sin does not separate a believer from God. They think only apostasy or walking away from God is the only way to become unsaved. The problem with these beliefs is one can serve God and also hold onto their sins in some way. But Jesus says you cannot serve two masters. The Bible teaches you can overcome sin. The Bible teaches that Sanctification is a necessary part of the salvation process. So Sanctification is not the same in these religions compared to what the Bible actually teaches. In OSAS, holiness is whatever somebody wants it to mean.

Shallow is the way I would describe the OSAS religion because it says you can sin and still be saved. So when they tell people to follow the Bible, they are basically not telling the truth. They say that nobody can keep God's commands and yet, there are close to 1,000 commands in the New Testament. Why would there be that many commands if faith was all about just believing? It doesn't add up. Jesus says, if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). I believe Jesus when He says this. How about you? Do you believe these words from Jesus?

There is no guessing about my salvation or the salvation of others. The Word of God is clear in what it says. 1 John 2:3-4. A person can have an assurance in knowing Him if they find that you are keeping His commandments. But if they say they know Jesus and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them. OSAS says you do not have to keep God's commandments. Right here sirens should be going off for you, but you have bought into this belief hook line and sinker. But you cannot explain the plain straight forward meaning of the many verses that I have put forth towards you. Hence, why you primarily give me opinion and not Scripture.

The Bible talks alot about falling away from the faith.

Here is a list of verses that makes it absolutely clear that believers can fall away from the faith.

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

Now, do not misunderstand me, believers cannot lose their salvation (in the sense of like how one would misplace one's car keys), but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)

Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)

Ananias (Acts 5:1-11)

Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)

Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)

Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)

Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)

The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

I told you before that Christ saves both in Justification and in Sanctification. He is a central part of my faith according to the Holy Scriptures.

Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that finds it.

No. They were workers of iniquity because they are abiding in sin. That is what iniquity is. Sin. Jesus says in verse 26-27 that if a person does not do what He says they are like a fool who built their house upon the sand. So am I going to be condemned for obeying Jesus? Jesus warned that if a person looks upon another in lust, their whole body could be cast into hellfire. Yet, you are saying that this is not the case somehow because you believe a saint is forever saved. Please read Matthew 7 again. The point is not OSAS but it is about not doing what Jesus says.

That is the thing you don't get. The work of Christ is what I trust alone. Jesus saves in Justification and in Sanctification. All good that is done in a believer's life is by Jesus Christ. So there is no "my works" alone. They are Christ's works.

We both agree that salvation requires confession and repentance as an integral part of saving faith.

To me - the question is whether or not you are exercising saving faith or just confession and repentance as a means to salvation.

God will tell when the time comes.

There is no doubt that Jesus and His work at Calvary are in your religion somewhere.

So I sincerely wish you all the best when you meet the Lord face to face and present your idea of faith in Christ's work for salvation to Him.

Hillsage · Oct 7, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Side Note 1:

The word "fellowship" is not proof that the epistle is not talking about salvation.

Fellowship is tied to salvation. For here are several passages that tell us that you cannot be out of fellowship with God and be saved.

And, as proven before, you simply do not understand the difference in scripture between RELATIONSHIP and FELLOWSHIP. When your SPIRIT is born again into the family of GOD that establishes your UNCHANGEABLE RELATIONSHIP as a child of God. When I got born again He became my spiritual father and I became His spiritual child.

Your relationship to your mom and dad is unchangeable. And I don't care if you hate them, run away from home, ruin the family name in drugs/sex/sin, legally get emancipated and change your name.....they are still your mom/dad by RELATIONSHIP. Only your FELLOWSHIP has been broken and is dead.

Even the story of the prodigal son establishes this truth to those with eyes to see. His son was still his son, even though they were dead in fellowship. When the Father saw his son he exclaimed "This my son who was dead is alive again." And the Father wasn't talking about their relationship.

Side Note 2:

Oh, and PS: There is only "Imparted/Imputed Righteousness" & "Practical Righteousness." This is also called "Positional Righteousness" & "Progressive Righteousness."

Failure to understand the difference between "Imparted/Imputed Righteousness" is as evident as those who are dichotomist in their understanding of man as only a soul/body as opposed to those who are tricotomist understanding that man is spirit/soul/body.

IOW I again can only view your understanding as coming up shallow concerning your theological depth. There is not 'only two kinds of righteousness'. The bible speaks of THREE kinds of righteousness. There is; UN-righteousness, CHRIST-righteousness and SELF righteousness. We believe and teach that when you receive the imputed righteousness of Christ he gets the glory. And when you impart His righteousness into your life by 'putting on the mind of Christ' and by having "Christ formed in you" as Paul stated, then again, GOD gets the glory concerning what Christ does IN YOU. That's our teaching, which only leaves your teaching with one kind of the three kinds of righteousness to to save your SELF, as you believe.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2017

Hillsage said:
And, as proven before, you simply do not understand the difference in scripture between RELATIONSHIP and FELLOWSHIP. When your SPIRIT is born again into the family of GOD that establishes your UNCHANGEABLE RELATIONSHIP as a child of God. When I got born again He became my spiritual father and I became His spiritual child.

Verses please. Not opinion.

You said:
Your relationship to your mom and dad is unchangeable. And I don't care if you hate them, run away from home, ruin the family name in drugs/sex/sin, legally get emancipated and change your name.....they are still your mom/dad by RELATIONSHIP. Only your FELLOWSHIP has been broken and is dead.

No. A son stops being a living functional member of the family when he dies both in relationship and in fellowship. For they are the same thing. Nobody has a relationship with a dead person. Unless they are trying to reenact the Weekend at Bernies movie or something. In fact, dead people decay and die. You cannot have a relationship with dust and ashes.

You said:
Even the story of the prodigal son establishes this truth to those with eyes to see. His son was still his son, even though they were dead in fellowship. When the Father saw his son he exclaimed "This my son who was dead is alive again." And the Father wasn't talking about their relationship.

The parable proves OSAS is false. The son was dead when he was living a prodigal life. But when he came back home, that is when he was ALIVE again. This parable is speaking in spiritual terms. It is using a physical story to parallel a spiritual reality. He was dead spiritually while in sin and he became alive again spiritually when he came back home and was willing to repent to his father and before all of heaven.

Scripture says, "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth." (Luke 15:10).

Why all the rejoicing?

It is because they are being saved.
Just like the prodigal son.
But you don't want to see it so you seek to rewrite the most obvious and plain meaning.

You said:
Failure to understand the difference between "Imparted/Imputed Righteousness" is as evident as those who are dichotomist in their understanding of man as only a soul/body as opposed to those who are tricotomist understanding that man is spirit/soul/body.

And 1 John 1:7 is how you get the imputed sacrifice of Christ to your life. You are just writing it off because you don't like what it says. You want the easy way, but it doesn't work like that.

You said:
OW I again can only view your understanding as coming up shallow concerning your theological depth. There is not 'only two kinds of righteousness'. The bible speaks of THREE kinds of righteousness. There is; UN-righteousness, CHRIST-righteousness and SELF righteousness. We believe and teach that when you receive the imputed righteousness of Christ he gets the glory. And when you impart His righteousness into your life by 'putting on the mind of Christ' and by having "Christ formed in you" as Paul stated, then again, GOD gets the glory concerning what Christ does IN YOU. That's our teaching, which only leaves your teaching with one kind of the three kinds of righteousness to to save your SELF, as you believe.

The only true righteousness is Imputed Righteousness and Practical Righteousness. Self righteousness is not really real righteousness.. It is fake and counterfeit. Also, unrighteousness is also not righteousness because it is the opposite of righteousness. So no. These are not different forms of righteousness. You are confused. Self righteousness is sin. Unrighteousness is sin. True righteousness is not sin. Do you get it? Probably not. But that's okay. It is best we agree to disagree and move on. If you cannot understand the Bible's teaching on basic morality and how that works with God's grace then I would ask you to pray to God about it. Titus 2:11-12 says the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness. Hebrews 5:9 says that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.

EmethAlethia · Oct 7, 2017

mmbattlestar said:
What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing? Discuss.

What did Jesus mean when he said "few will be saved?" There are billions of Christians out there! Christianity is the largest religion in the world! So surely many will be saved? What are we missing?

There are billions of people who believe they are Christians and don’t believe that any of the warnings about people who believe Jesus is their Lord and are even doing signs and wonders and casting out demons in His name don’t apply to them. No one EVER fails any of the tests and recognizes that they aren’t really His.

That said, while every belief group believes the gospel is simple, they all believe different simple gospels.

If everybody that believes they are right with God is correct, Jesus lied and we can forget the whole thing. Jesus said,

“Mat 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”

The meaning of the words that pertain to really being a Christian or getting through the “narrow / small way” literally means “To groan” as in squeezing through a tunnel in a wall where you lose skin getting through. The wording for the wide path is the main entry into the city where up to 4 carts could enter or go out at a single time. Now think on this: How many people go in and out of major cities through the main gate? How many people squeezed through a hole in the wall? From the wording, if 2-3 out of every hundred enter I would be surprised.

So how come so few make it? Think about it. What has every belief group done to hold fast to it’s beliefs? Don’t limit it to Christianity. Include every belief group you can think of. What does every belief group have to harden them into their current beliefs?

1.) They have gathered passages, facts, data, information … that they can “use” to prove their beliefs true.

2.) They have gathered passages, facts, data, information … that they can “use” to prove all opposing beliefs false.

3.) They interpret their “selected” data in the light of their beliefs

4.) Since their core beliefs, their data, and their interpretations make their “Beliefs” and “The Truth” the same thing, the only correct interpretations of anything else out there have to line up with the truth, right

The point is this. EVERY group out there does this, although there are individuals who do not. But does this methodology get ANYONE to the truth? Look at what the belief groups are doing and answer these questions.

If their beliefs really aren’t “Truth” in spite of their beliefs:

A.) If they gather even more data they can use to prove their beliefs true, will that get them “from” believing lies “as” truth “to” the truth?

B.) If they gather even more data they can use to prove opposing beliefs false, will that get them “from” believing lies “as” truth “to” the truth?

C.) If they figure out even more ways to interpret everything in the light of their beliefs and in the light of their “selected” data, will that get them “from” believing lies “as” truth “to” the truth?

What does that methodology do? It only hardens people into their beliefs. It only closes the eyes and ears to believing anything but the belief groups beliefs.

Look at that methodology again. If that is what you, and those in your belief group are doing, do you really “want” “truth”? Are you really “seeking” truth? What are you seeking? You are seeking to prove your beliefs true and hold fast to them, right? You can’t get to truth using that methodology.

The question is, since the vast majority of people that believe they are Christians aren’t really Christians, if you really did have all of your core beliefs on the issue wrong, would you really want to do what it takes to get to the truth and alter your beliefs and your lives to fit?

It will cost you a lot. Your belief groups will attempt to silence you for one. Probably remove you altogether as a heretic and danger to the flock. Your family relationships can be destroyed. You can lose your husband, wife, lose your kids, family, friends … job, ministry …

I am in the process of writing 2 books. “Truth vs. Beliefs” and “Salvation by the Book”.

I am making a pre-published copy of what I have so far available to anyone who wants one … for free. Just e-mail me. And yes there are probably a bunch of errors that need fixing.

That said, everyone gets what they really want. If you really want to hold fast to your beliefs, you can die with them intact and believing in them with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. Getting to the truth is a whole different matter.

2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Bible Highlighter · Oct 7, 2017

Marvin Knox said:
We both agree that salvation requires confession and repentance as an integral part of saving faith.

Technically these are works. They are actions one takes by calling upon the Lord to ask Him for forgiveness of their sin. On top of that true repentance is followed by forsaking sin and or evil. For if one plans to do evil again, then their asking God to forgive them was just a sham or a lie. For that would be like a husband telling his wife that he is sorry that he is cheating on her but he has no real intention of stopping. Is such a man truly sorry? Of course not. That is why actions must follow one's words or beliefs. If not, it is merely all talk and or a mental acknowledgment that means nothing.

You said:
To me - the question is whether or not you are exercising saving faith or just confession and repentance as a means to salvation.

Okay, now you are denying confession and repentance as a part of salvation. Before you said it was an integral part of salvation. Now it sounds like you are saying you don't believe that. This is what is deceptive about Eternal Security. It preaches a double message.

OSAS preacher:
"We don't do anything to be saved but we only have a belief on Jesus to be saved.

Person in the audience:
"But does that mean you can murder, rape, abuse children, get drunk, and sleep with prostitutes and be saved all because you have a belief on Jesus?"

OSAS Preacher:
"No, no, of course not. No true believer will live like that."

Person in the audience:
"So you are saying that holiness is a way of telling somebody is saved?"

OSAS Preacher:
"Yes."

Person in the audience:
"Then believers don't sin?"

OSAS Preacher:
"Well, ... no."

Person in the audience:
"So then they are saved while they are in the times even when they sin?"

OSAS Preacher:
"Well... I suppose, but they are not seeking to live sinfully."

Person in the audience:
"But how is that any different than living in lots of sin?" "Is that still not justifying evil?"

The conversation would probably not even get this far.
At this point, the OSAS preacher would end it.
Why? Because they should be able to defend the faith of God's Word.
But seeing such a faith does not exist in God's Word, the conversation would not last past this point in most cases.

You said:
God will tell when the time comes.

There is no doubt that Jesus and His work at Calvary are in your religion somewhere.

So I sincerely wish you all the best when you meet the Lord face to face and present your idea of faith in Christ's work for salvation to Him.

Please go back and look at all the verses I posted and address them.
Less opinion and more Scripture please.

EmethAlethia · Oct 8, 2017

DarkSoul999 said:
Does that mean that absolutely everyone other than Noah's family went to Hell? That would have to mean that infants burn in hell....absurd

Yes they were physically destroyed by the flood but what can be said of their eternal destiny?

Actually only one, Noah, was considered righteous. That said, I agree with you that those that are under the age of reason are in heaven. Take the situation of David's child, he can not come to me but I will go to him.... Unless you think David is in hell, the child is in heaven. Jews considered all sins of children under the age of adulthood to be the parents responsibility. (i.e. 12-14 years old).

EmethAlethia · Oct 8, 2017

1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. 3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Non-repentant, going to die, (Destruction of the flesh vs. 5) still saved.

1Co 11:28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Christians that "practice" sin get judged NOW, in this life. Weakness, sickness and "sleeping", i.e. physical death but not loss of salvation, are the end result, just like the example in Rom. 5.

Heb 12:6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES." 7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

If you can "practice" as a habit and way of life, "sin", and not see weakness, sickness or physical death, you never were His in the first place.

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

Hey, everybody sins. That's not the issue. It's the habitual, way of life, "practice" of sin that is the issue. We are at war. Those that are "real" Christians are struggling to figure out and obey what God wants, as a result of their understanding of the EXTREME debt God has forgiven them for, and the love they have as a result ("He who is forgiven much loves much.", "If you love Me you will keep My commandments." Which means you will do your best to get to the truth of what He really does command.) But that does not mean that we aren't still battling against our flesh. Paul was battling against it. Who here is more righteous than Paul?

Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

No battle... no war ... no reproof of God ... = no real Christian ... but there are other signs as well ...

SkyWriting · Oct 8, 2017

he-man said:
Sorry, too few is not in the manuscripts. πολλοι γαρ εισιν κηλτοι ολιγοι δε εκλεκτοι Matthew 22:14 ajective, nominative, plural, masculine; see strong's G2822 invited, chosen. Compare 1 Corinthians 1:2; Romans 1:6-7; Romans 8:28; . Have you considered how hard it is to get through the "eye of the needle"? LUKE 18:25

I appreciate the research. Please produce
the correct explanation of "few" in the context
so people can stop imagining the number.
None of your comparisons say "few".
Why is that?

Never mind. My research shows that "Too few" is not too far off.

oligos: few, little, small
Original Word: ὀλίγος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective; Adverb
Transliteration: oligos
Phonetic Spelling: (ol-ee'-gos)
Short Definition: small, brief, few, soon
Definition: (a) especially in plur: few, (b) in sing: small; hence, of time: short, of degree: light, slight, little.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. word
Definition
few, little, small
NASB Translation
brief (1), briefly (1), few (11), few things (3), great* (1), little (7), little way (1), little while (4), long* (1), number* (2), short (3), short time (1), small (3), while (1).

So "Few are called" is not actually a number at all.
The number of believers is "short" of the total.
The number of believers is "smaller" than the total.
The number of believers is "littler" than the total.

None of these is very contraversial. People often think they are
of the "Chosen few", which is not a good way to think.

Hillsage · Oct 8, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Verses please. Not opinion.

No. A son stops being a living functional member of the family when he dies both in relationship and in fellowship. For they are the same thing. Nobody has a relationship with a dead person. Unless they are trying to reenact the Weekend at Bernies movie or something. In fact, dead people decay and die. You cannot have a relationship with dust and ashes.

You want verses???? When common logic fails you, as it does above, I see no reason to spend time again providing 'you' with verses which you've explained away before.

The parable proves OSAS is false. The son was dead when he was living a prodigal life. But when he came back home, that is when he was ALIVE again. This parable is speaking in spiritual terms. It is using a physical story to parallel a spiritual reality. He was dead spiritually while in sin and he became alive again spiritually when he came back home and was willing to repent to his father and before all of heaven.

Scripture says, "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth." (Luke 15:10).

I'm sorry your POV is a bit too myopic for me. The father declared his being alive before he ever heard of his son repent.

And 1 John 1:7 is how you get the imputed sacrifice of Christ to your life. You are just writing it off because you don't like what it says. You want the easy way, but it doesn't work like that.

No, I just want the truth, and I let the truth take me to what I believe. You don't understand RELATIONSHIP salvation for your spirit and FELLOWSHIP salvation for your soul. You do not know the difference between 'crowns of inheritance' for whose you are' as opposed to 'crowns of conquest' for what we do.

1JO 1:7 but if we WALK in the light, as he is in the light, we have FELLOWSHIP with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Any belief that this verse means you walk in light before you ever came to the light is as dumb as the lost sheep who say I found Jesus.

True righteousness is not sin. Do you get it? Probably not. But that's okay. It is best we agree to disagree and move on.

I knew that from the first time you posted me in this thread. :wave:

Bible Highlighter · Oct 8, 2017

Hillsage said:
You want verses???? When common logic fails you, as it does above, I see no reason to spend time again providing 'you' with verses which you've explained away before.

Maybe in another thread but not this one. If you won’t post the verses for me then do it to help someone else. Are you interested in doing that? Or is your doctrine built on sand so bad that you cannot defend it so as to help others?

You said:
I'm sorry your POV is a bit too myopic for me. The father declared his being alive before he ever heard of his son repent.

Uh no. You are twisting the parable around. Read Luke 15 again. The son first admits his sin (verse 21) before the father declares that he was lost and is alive again (verse 24).

You said:
No, I just want the truth, and I let the truth take me to what I believe.

No you don’t, or you wouldn’t ignore and not explain the many verses I have put forth.

You said:
You don't understand RELATIONSHIP salvation for your spirit and FELLOWSHIP salvation for your soul. You do not know the difference between 'crowns of inheritance' for whose you are' as opposed to 'crowns of conquest' for what we do.

Scripture please. Please show how relationship is different than fellowship in the Bible. Please show how the mention of these crowns in Scripture helps to prove your case.

You said:
1JO 1:7 but if we WALK in the light, as he is in the light, we have FELLOWSHIP with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Compare 1 John 1:6-7 with 1 John 2:3-4. They are saying essentially the same thing. Darkness is not keeping his commandments and light is obeying them. 1 John 2 continues to talk about how not loving (hating) your brother is like one being in darkness. 1 John 3:15 says he that hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life in them. 1 John 3:10 says if you do not righteousness you are not of God? Are you doing righteousness? 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil? Are you committing sin? John 3:20 says all who do evil hate the light. Are you doing evil?

You said:
Any belief that this verse means you walk in light before you ever came to the light is as dumb as the lost sheep who say I found Jesus.

I knew that from the first time you posted me in this thread.

Less insults and less opinion and more Scripture please.

he-man · Oct 8, 2017

SkyWriting said:
I appreciate the research. Please produce
the correct explanation of "few" in the context
so people can stop imagining the number.
None of your comparisons say "few".
Why is that? Never mind. My research shows that "Too few" is not too far off.
The number of believers is "smaller" than the total. The number of believers is "littler" than the total.

Sorry, but your Greek and English is lacking. ολιγοι is defined as an adjective, not an adverb, and it is nominative, plural, masculine; it would have to be an infinitive it it was as you say, "too few"; LSJ, Slater, Middell Little, all say when it is used as a quanty or a number, it means: few, little, or nothing, scanty, small. Read Luke 10:2; 1 Peter 3:20; Matthew 7:14; Acts of the Apostles 17:12

Marvin Knox · Oct 8, 2017

Jason0047 said:
On top of that true repentance is followed by forsaking sin and or evil. For if one plans to do evil again, then their asking God to forgive them was just a sham or a lie. For that would be like a husband telling his wife that he is sorry that he is cheating on her but he has no real intention of stopping. Is such a man truly sorry? Of course not. That is why actions must follow one's words or beliefs. If not, it is merely all talk and or a mental acknowledgment that means nothing.

Do you know of someone here who plans to do evil? Do you think it's me?

Jason0047 said:
Okay, now you are denying confession and repentance as a part of salvation. Before you said it was an integral part of salvation. Now it sounds like you are saying you don't believe that. This is what is deceptive about Eternal Security. It preaches a double message.

No - not at all.

As I have pointed out before you seem to not understand the Lord's many faceted program for salvation.

Salvation includes deliverance from sin in our lives. We call that process sanctification.

Sanctification follows being saved by grace through faith and being sealed by the Holy Spirit - who then helps us work out our salvation.

It is you who seems to recognize sanctification as not just a part of the salvation process but the actual means for us to be saved, sealed by the Holy Spirit, and spiritually seated with Christ in Heaven - over and over and over and over again every time we confess and repent after sinning.

The difference between our two belief systems is that you have people getting saved over and over and over and over again.

The only way that would not be the case is if a person never sinned after believing on Christ initially and you don't believe that.

Your view is so far from the truth of salvation that it's almost another religion altogether.

And - please - no more remarks about people who are convicted by the Holy Spirit unto salvation "planning" to sin. That's malarkey.

Recognizing early on by reading about examples in the scriptures and actually missing the mark on occasion that they will likely sin in the future and need an advocate is not planning to sin. Neither is it "approving" of sin by either the believer or God (as you have so crudely charged).

Jason0047 said:
Please go back and look at all the verses I posted and address them.
Less opinion and more Scripture please.

You go back and address just the Lord's words on the subject for starters.

Justatruthseeker · Oct 8, 2017

And yet the one sheep that went astray is more important than the other 99, for the Shepard leaves the flock to search for the single lamb that went astray.
The lost son that went astray and returns home is celebrated with a fatted calf, while those never lost........

SBC · Oct 8, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Then you just contradicted yourself.

No Jason. There is always TWO understandings on a matter.
A carnal understanding.
And spiritual understanding.

In the BIG scheme of things, NO ONE IS INNOCENT. Everyone is born AGAINST God, because they do not know Him or Believe in Him. And precisely WHY, His Grace is needed, and Given, and His WAY is revealed for us to reconcile unto Him.

That ^ is Spiritual, from Gods perspective.

You said murder is the killing of the innocent and yet nobody is innocent.

Now, move into the SMALLER scheme of things - men dealing with men.
Thou shalt not MURDER, is Gods directive TO MEN, dealing with MEN.

Is it MURDER, for a man to KILL another man found having broken into a man's home, stabbing a man's child? No. And the man who broken in, committing the stabbing, IS GUILTY of having broken in, and doing the stabbing. No, that is NOT MURDER, that is KILLING.

Murder and Killing, pertaining to the action of a man, is not about INNOCENCE, but rather about being GUILTY or NOT GUILTY of the claim (accusation).

And the SAME, trickles over into our US and States Court systems, since our Governments were Established on Godly Principles and Standards.

No one is ever DECLARED "INNOCENT", by the courts. But rather, they are declared; Guilty or Not Guilty of a particular stated offense.

Then why did God tell Israel, "You shalt not murder." if it was not possible for them to murder? Does it make sense for God to give them laws that do not apply to them?

Just explained. Do you get it?

It was always wrong to murder another person outside of God's say so.
Abel and Cain is a great example of this from the beginning.
Do you think Cain did not murder his brother?

Yes. Cain Murdered his brother.
Abel had done nothing whatsoever to Cain. IOW, Able did NOT trespass AGAINST Cain. Abel did something pleasing to God, and God acknowledged Abel's efforts.
Cain was jealous, that God was pleased with Abel, and not with Cain.
Instead of being happy for his brother, Cain eliminated his brother, (imo), Cain thinking, God would be left with only Cain, thus, Cain being the only one left, for God to be pleased with.

Abel was an example of how to please God. And Cain, didn't get the lesson, and mimic his brother.
Many don't. Many complain and get mad at God, and get mad at those whose efforts please God, when their own effort DO NOT please God.

Romans 13 talks about how countries are placed into power and have the ability to punish those who do certain evils. Paul warns us believers about we are to do good and not evil, because if we do evil, these governments are like an arm of justice from God that can punish us. Sort of like when Assyria had punished Israel for their sins.

Now you are getting into World Governments, sort of straying off point.
People WANT to trust those in governmental positions, BUT we quickly learn, they too are individuals, and do not always do what is pleasing to God.

Under the New Testament, believers are supposed to be pacifists.

BE pacifists? Nonsense. Love your enemy does not mean, slip under their foot and go along with with, or tolerate their standing against God.

This is not murder. God was instructing the Israelites to take life. God is the giver and taker of life. He decides whose life is at end or not. Murder is when we decide to take life outside of God's approval or permission.

Nor did I say it was murder. I said it was KILLING.

I mean, why do you think the world was destroyed by a global flood if not for them breaking God's moral laws? Have you ever read 2 Peter 2:5-6 recently?

Why a global flood. Simple. The earth and it's inhabitants had become corrupt. Every thing, but that which was raised Above to the Face of the Waters, received a "CLEANSING".

Yet, Peter did not successfully walk on the water the whole time like he should have.

WHY should he have? Because the answer is: what happened is exactly what should have happened.
And the WHY is because; He had NOT YET, been BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit.
The Lesson is: man's WALK in faith, is not SUFFICIENT, WITHOUT the POWER of GOD within the man.

Also, James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
So you need to have more than just a belief alone in order to have true faith.
James says we are justified by works and not by faith only (James 2:24).

True. Men can do noble works by their own efforts. However, men doing noble works, WITHOUT the Spirit of God IN THEM, are doing NOTHING, by or for the Spirit of God. Thus there is NOTHING for God to keep a Spiritual record of their "works". Which that makes their own "noble" works, by and of themselves only....DEAD, or otherwise, without Gods consideration, since, HIS POWER, was no part of their own works.

In 1 John 1:9, the idea here is that you confess, God will then forgive you. For if we confess, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. So this is not a one time event. John says in 1 John 2:1 to: "sin not." He then says if you do sin, you have an advocate Jesus Christ that you can go to. Also, nowhere will you find a Scripture verse that says "future sin is forgiven you." The idea was always "repentance." Jesus told people to repent. Peter told Simon to repent and yet Simon was a believer.

Of course men are told to repent.
Of course men are told God is faithful to forgive SIN.
Of course men are told to NOT sin.
Of course men are told Jesus IS their WAY.
Of course you will NOT find advocating to challenge, Gods Power and Word and Faithfulness.

The IDEA is to Learn what men doing those things ARE gifted with.
And that Gift is ultimately, Gods INDWELLING SPIRIT.

If you think, Gods INDWELLING SPIRIT, is going to DWELL idly WITHIN a man, WHILE the man continues IN SIN.... you are wrong.

God is a God of the living....NOT the dead who are IN SIN AGAINST Him.

Have more faith in God, that He dwells within a man, THAT HE HAS, killed that flesh of sin, restored the soul, quickened the mans spirit by His Seed, and forever KEEPS that man holy unto Himself, BY HIS POWER, and according to HIS WAY and Pleasure....

even if His Way, is not satisfactory to you, or understood by you.
He who is IN YOU, is greater than he who is in the world.
He who is IN YOU, has overcome the world, which means, you also have overcome the world.

And the worlds process of thinking; IS Gods forgiveness is not sufficient; man must KEEP asking God over and over and over. They don't SEE themselves as acceptable to God. They don't SEE others as acceptable to God. However they are NOT SEEING with Gods eyes.

God WILL NOT DWELL in a man that STANDING AGAINST HIM! period.
Yet God is Faithful, and WILL DWELL FOREVER in a man who has heart-fully committed their faith-FULLNESS to Him, regardless of HOW the world judges the man.

You seem to have some confusion about; Belief, Repenting, Faith, Faithfulness, Knowing About God, Knowing God, and Committing. They are all different things.

The FULLNESS of FAITH, is a gift to man, from God, BY HIS Forever, INDWELLING POWER; FOR the man Committing their belief in God, TO God.

Nothing whatsoever, can take that man out of Gods hands. God is faithful and His Word is True.

David repented of his murder and adultery in Psalms 51. David did not continue to be a murderer and an adulterer.

Men traditionally have ASKED GOD to forgiven them for EVERYTHING!
Wrongs they did to God specifically.
Wrongs they did to People specifically.
Wrongs they did in Not obeying any of the 600+ laws of Moses.

Did you not learn. IF you were under Mosaic Law or not?
Do you require forgiveness for violating a law that did not apply to you?
Did you not ask God to forgive the sins of your flesh, for not believing in Him?
Did you not ask God to forgive the sins of your flesh that corrupted your soul?
DID HE FORGIVE those Sins?

Did you thereafter preach and teach and stand against God AGAIN, NOT believing in Him?
If you were forgiven, saved, born again.....YOU COULD NOT EVER AGAIN STAND AGAINST GOD.

Which is precisely what the following verse means....
You can not sin,
You can not commit sin,
BECAUSE God forever remains WITHIN the Man.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

OT men learned to REPENT TO GOD for everything.
However you were supposed to have noticed them being introduced to MEN forgiving MEN who
trespass against them.
AND you were supposed to have learned ONLY God forgives sin, and men forgive trespasses.

When David took another mans wife, David was trespassing against the other man.
David was encouraging the other mans wife, to trespass against her own husband.

Those things, did nothing whatsoever to glorify God, but neither did those things, STOP David's faithfulness to God. Neither did those things, cause Gods forgiveness toward David to become UNDONE! Neither of those things, caused Gods Saving Grace of David to become UNDONE!

It was David's own grief, shame and guilt he had to bare, for his own actions.
Same is today.

Shame, guilt, grief, IS what a man has to bare, WHEN he trespasses against other men. God knows this, and WHY Scripture teaches about faithfulness, not only to God, but toward other men.
When you give your word, to do something, do it.
When you give your word, to be faithful to another, do it.

You can be forgiven, but you can not be Unshamed, Unguilty, or Ungrieved for your own actions.
Scripture teaches, let your yes be yes; or do not say yes, to what you are NOT SURE you can do.
Because although you may be forgiven, you will still carry a hefty burden.

God knows the strife of a heavy burden, thus teaches, and warns, to avoid putting yourself in that predicament. ie. Do not commit adultery. Someone WILL be hurt, and someone WILL bare the burden of shame.

Did the Sodomites desire a peaceful solution? No. They held Lot captive.
So they were doing wrong. Melchizedek told Abraham that God blessed his efforts in delivering the enemies into his hand (Genesis 14:20). So obviously Abraham was acting in accordance with God's will.

Correct. My point. A Faithful man, can rarely REASON with an UNFAITHFUL man. When an unfaithful man continues to impose himself upon a faithful man, sometimes, killing is the last option.

And precisely WHY, battle ensued in Scripture.
And precisely WHY, diplomacy in the middle east will always fail.

You can not solve Spiritual Differences, with a Worldly Solution.

Nope. Scripture says you can sin against your brother.

Progress from what they didn't know and didn't Understand, to what has been revealed and the Understanding available to every man with the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Men commit transgressions of sin against God, and only God can forgive sin.
Men commit transgressions of trespassing against other men, and men CAN forgive trespasses.

When God forgave your sins; you think your God unknowing of all things? You think He has to wait as see what you MIGHT do? Was He in error to say; ALL of your sins are forgiven? An oops? He should have said, I'll wait and see? I will not save your soul, or quicken your spirit, or dwell within you; because I'll just wait and see if you are Strong enough "WITHOUT" ME (GOD), to be faithful to ME (God), forever, without MY (God) power in you?

Uh, NO. You should have learned, that is not possible. And God does not dwell IN SIN. IF Gods Spirit is IN YOU, Sin is not!

"Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him." (Leviticus 19:17).

Correct. Rebuke thy neighbor, no problem. Which is standing against, what the neighbor has done.
NOT being a pacifist and accepting the neighbors standing against God.
But yet, not chastise him, curse him, for his actions against God.

"Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?" (Matthew 18:21).

Learn what has been revealed. Men can NOT forgive SIN!
Learn what has been revealed. Peter was STILL LEARNING. Still in carnal understanding, which is how we ALL begin. However there is spiritual understanding, that is given a man BY the Lord Himself, WHEN the man is prepared to receive it.

John 14
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Col 1
[9] For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

1 John 5
[20] And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

2 Tim 2
[7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Matt 16
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2).

Correct. A man who does not trust to believe God, IS in sin against God, and that man IS separated from God, which is HOW all naturally born men begin, (save John the Baptist), and why men have to become reconciled unto God, or remain unforgiven, and separated from God.

5 "...God;
6...will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law..."
(Romans 2:5-12).

Not news Jason -
While scripture is written to include ALL men; ALL of scripture does not APPLY to all men.

Scriptures that are teaching men HOW TO OVERCOME the WORLD, EVIL, Men's wicked behavior, Men standing against God, consequences for such......
DOES NOT APPLY TO A MAN WHO HAS ALREADY OVERCOME....

A man WHO HAS OVERCOME, HAS FULFILLED WHAT GOD REQUIRES! AND GOD IS FAITHFUL TO KEEP THAT MAN FOREVER!

No. A simple prayer of asking Christ's forgiveness and believing the gospel is all it takes to be saved initally. But a person from that point has to continue to walk with Christ in His good ways, though. If they turn back to a life of sin, their repentance was not genuine.

I have expressly already spoke to that.
If a man's standing and committed faithfulness is to God ONLY;
That man IS NOT EVER rejected of God.

You may reject the mans faithfulness. But then God is NOT saving souls, unto you, by your standards;
God is saving souls, UNTO HIM, by His Word, at His Pleasure, by His Acceptance, By His Understanding.

And again, a man can NOT fool God.
And again, a mans WORKS that do not glorify God, is the mans own loss of rewards ie crowns.

A man can not LOSE Gods forgiveness, or LOSE God saving his soul, or LOSE God quickening the mans spirit, or LOSE Gods Holy Spirit being with the mans spirit forever. For a man to HAVE such things, then LOSE them, would make God a LIAR and UNFAITHFUL, and that IS NOT POSSIBLE.

To be born again is to be spiritually renewed. It is to have a new heart like Ezekiel talks about. You know that whole thing about how God will cause you to keep His commandments? Or did you miss that part of the Bible?

Why do you wonder if I missed it, when I have spoken at length and very detail about that?

Being born again is being a new person whereby you don't live like the old man.

Did you not get the jist, and difficulty of Paul teaching men about God? In brief visits, in letters?
Paul was traveling - TELLING the GOOD NEWS....oooh rah...!!
What was the their OLD NEWS? Pretty much zilch! Paul was not set out to teach Jews, but rather Gentiles. And the Gentiles knew what about God? Very little!

If you are going to quote from a historical time frame, that deals with people from a historical time frame; then DON'T use your later knowledge to try project you understand and those people understood.

You have YEARS of hearing, reading, studying. they had a traveling minister, telling them things they had NEVER before known; about God, about Christ. And do not forget, the crowds were mixed: men, women, Gentiles, Jews. Jews rah rahing God, dissing Jesus. Gentiles wanting to hear about Jesus, but were not steeped in the knowledge of God, and Paul trying to teach them about Christ, when they knew not the Ways and History of God.

Jewish women did not historically attend Temple. And Jewish men who attended Temple, LISTENED.
But with Paul, Men and Women, attending his crowds, in the Temples all jabbering, instead of Listening.

So, you forget all you know, attend a couple of meetings, hear what you like and believe and then pretend you know and understand ABOUT God. Then wonder why you are being taught ABOUT God, after you have committed to Christ. Because that is the situation with early Churches and people Paul was teaching.

Acts 9
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
[16] For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Are you confused, thinking a man who demonstrates the power of God IS a god?

They did. They had not yet understanding.

Acts 14
[11] And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.

Uh, no. You are ripping that verse out of context.

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The next verse says,

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

Uh, no. You are ripping that verse out of context.

Click to expand...

Whosever does not righteousness is not of God. That is the context. So your interpretation on 1 John 3:9 is false.

Click to expand...

Uh no! IS of God, does not equal IS NOT of God. Nor are the "whosoever's", the same person.

You are trying to IMPLY "righteousness", is dependent upon moral behavior.

God already notified us what God accounts TO A MAN, as "righteousness" .

Gen 15
[6] And he (Abram) believed in the LORD; and he (the LORD) counted it (belief in the LORD) to him (Abram) for righteousness.

You can believe all day long the Lord forgave your sins, and not trust, He forgave ALL of your sins. You can believe, the Lords Spirit dwells within you, while you are "committing" sin, but, a word to the wise: you lack Gods understanding on the matter; even straight out not believing the very words that say; If you are born of God, you can not sin.

So either, you are not born of God, OR, what you teach is not according to Gods word.
That is a dangerous slope. And I would suggest you study on Gods word, of what He accounts as righteousness, and what the Power of His Spirit in you does, because it is greater than what you are teaching. Study it, then Ask God Himself to give you HIS understanding.

God Bless,
SBC

Anyways, if you don't get what I am saying after this post, I think it is best to agree to disagree and part ways. So far it appears like you don't want to see what Scripture says plainly.

I quote; 1 John 3:9. Trust it applies to me WHO IS whosoever is Born of God,
and You say I twist it.
You read it plainly. If it applies to you, should I say, no it does not?

I do hope I am wrong and that you will change, though.

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No. I will not change, and teach God is a liar or unfaithful or unknowing or fooled into forgiving, saving, quickening a man, only to undo it, because other men are not in agreement with what God man, another man thinks that should be withdrawn.

May God's love shine upon you tonight;
And may you please be well.

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Ditto,
SBC

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Few will be saved?

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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One 4 Him & Him 4 all

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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