An effective border "wall" for less than half a billion?

tall73

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Estimates for the cost of Trump's proposed borde21.6 r wall are hard to pin down. This article references anywhere from 20 some billion, to three times that or more. And there are questions about how effective it would be.

But what if we used tested technology instead of a wall?

Samsung SGR-A1 - Wikipedia

The Samsung Sentry gun may (unknown as classified) be capable of functioning as a lethal autonomous weapons system. However, it can also function with a human involved.

If they were placed every mile along the Mexican-USA border it would cost less than half a billion to produce the units. There may be additional installation fees. However, they would be far less than a border wall.

The unit can sound an alarm, shoot bullets at a rate of up to 1,000 rounds per minute, or utilize a multi-grenade launcher.

The system can accept authorization codes, and recognize voices, etc.
These are currently used by South Korea in the demilitarized zone.

It could certainly pose problems for drug runners, etc. trying to cross as well.

It probably would not take long for the word to spread and for border crossings to stop.

Of course if things ever went down hill this would also trap us in our own country. And undoubtedly someone would turn on the automated mode by mistake and it might mow down folks. But since we seem bent on creating autonomous killing machines and computer AI's that will probably take over at some point anyway, why not go for the cost savings? And then we could add to our title of biggest weapons exporter and largest military budget in the world the title of most militarized border.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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A tall chain link fence topped with razor wire patrolled by men and dogs is the best system. Unmanned devices can be overcome. It's hard to overcome an armed guard pointing a weapon at you through the fence.
 
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JWO

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Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

Isaiah 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with Death, and with Hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. 17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 And your covenant with Death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with Hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

America needs to be cautious about signing a covenant with the god of fortresses. Yes, it is too late en masse, but not for individuals.
 
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Audacious

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A tall chain link fence topped with razor wire patrolled by men and dogs is the best system. Unmanned devices can be overcome. It's hard to overcome an armed guard pointing a weapon at you through the fence.
That's so cheap and affordable. Especially considering that a large percentage of illegal immigrants overstay their visas, and are let in on purpose.

We don't know the exact percentage of who comes in through in what fashion, but with the info we have, a wall doesn't even seem particularly effective. You need to identify the cause of a problem before you can identify effective solutions.
 
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Dawnhammer

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But since we seem bent on creating autonomous killing machines and computer AI's that will probably take over at some point anyway, why not go for the cost savings?

That sounds like something Trump would tweet. So probably not a good idea.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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That's so cheap and affordable. Especially considering that a large percentage of illegal immigrants overstay their visas, and are let in on purpose.

We don't know the exact percentage of who comes in through in what fashion, but with the info we have, a wall doesn't even seem particularly effective. You need to identify the cause of a problem before you can identify effective solutions.

Overland border crossing is still a big problem. A fence would certainly be helpful. It is the poorest, sickest, unskilled, and uneducated that cross overland. They are the costliest to deal with once here.
 
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Audacious

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Overland border crossing is still a big problem. A fence would certainly be helpful. It is the poorest, sickest, unskilled, and uneducated that cross overland. They are the costliest to deal with once here.
So it's the most vulnerable people you want to shoot if they try to cross a chain-link fence with guards and drones, for a super high budget?

Sounds reasonable.
 
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Serving Zion

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But since we seem bent on creating autonomous killing machines and computer AI's that will probably take over at some point anyway,
I am not weighing in here, I do not wish to harm anyone. I wish the world would receive healing through Christ. I just need to say that it concerns me that you are Christian and you have conceded to this view (consider Proverbs 24:10). It reflects an apocalyptic view that is more akin to the antichrist's desire than Christ's (Hebrews 7:15-17). Do you watch much hollywood? Do you recognise whether their sci-fi is representing holy ambitions or not? Best to choose your spiritual food carefully, keeping your mind pure because that is strength (1 Corinthians 15:33, Revelation 18:4).
 
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tall73

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I am not weighing in here, I do not wish to harm anyone. I wish the world would receive healing through Christ. I just need to say that it concerns me that you are Christian and you have conceded to this view (consider Proverbs 24:10).

(Don't worry, this thread is tongue in cheek. You are supposed to pick up on that part when you read about adding the title of most militarized border. Incidentally, these are already deployed in the world, unfortunately. No end-times scenarios needed. In the movies autonomous weapons look like Arnold. Not so much in real life).

You might find the following interesting: Holy See: risks of robotic weapons with lethal capacity - Vatican Radio
 
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OldWiseGuy

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That's so cheap and affordable. Especially considering that a large percentage of illegal immigrants overstay their visas, and are let in on purpose.

We don't know the exact percentage of who comes in through in what fashion, but with the info we have, a wall doesn't even seem particularly effective. You need to identify the cause of a problem before you can identify effective solutions.

One big problem is that the whole border needs to be fenced in order for it to be maximally effective.

How many people cross illegally into the U.S. from Mexico?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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So it's the most vulnerable people you want to shoot if they try to cross a chain-link fence with guards and drones, for a super high budget?

Sounds reasonable.

No shooting unless necessary. Drones not needed, nor high budget.

People are deceived and deceive themselves regarding costs. For example most of the personnel needed for duty on the fence are already being paid, much like airline pilots who are (gasp) paid even though they are not flying.

Military units are paid whether they are at their home base or on duty on the fence. Police officers on tdy (temporary duty) from their hometown departments don't cost any more either.

Of course there are extra costs but not as much as people think or are led to believe.
 
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Serving Zion

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(Don't worry, this thread is tongue in cheek. You are supposed to pick up on that part when you read about adding the title of most militarized border. Incidentally, these are already deployed in the world, unfortunately. No end-times scenarios needed).
This is serious bro! Ephesians 4:25 and Matthew 12:36-37 are coming against you. Please don't take this lightly, we are called to be a royal priesthood, representing The Most High. Either we shine as lights to draw them in, or we burn as agents of destruction. There is no middle ground (Revelation 3:16, John 15:5-6, Hebrews 10:26-31, 1 John 1:9).

Dear Heavenly Father, please be kind to our brother, it is such a severe blow to receive. Lord, grant him patience, reverence and wisdom to your glory, in Jesus' name, Amen.
 
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tall73

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This is serious bro! Ephesians 4:25 and Matthew 12:36-37 are coming against you. Please don't take this lightly, we are called to be a royal priesthood, representing The Most High. Either we shine as lights to draw them in, or we burn as agents of destruction. There is no middle ground (Revelation 3:16, John 15:5-6, Hebrews 10:26-31, 1 John 1:9).

Dear Heavenly Father, please be kind to our brother, it is such a severe blow to receive. Lord, grant him patience, reverence and wisdom to your glory, in Jesus' name, Amen.

Yes, it is serious that we are developing autonomous killing machines and some are already deployed. I think you are missing the point.
 
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erealmz

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But what if we used tested technology instead of a wall?

Samsung SGR-A1 - Wikipedia

The Samsung Sentry gun may (unknown as classified) be capable of functioning as a lethal autonomous weapons system. However, it can also function with a human involved.

So you want to turn the border into a Tower Defense game? Nice.
 
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tall73

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Apparently we have reached the point where Satire is no longer recognized in society.

So for those who are confused, no I don't want to turn the border into a tower defense game. I want to draw attention to the fact that it is already being done in the world.
 
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miamited

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Hi tall,

You know, we can fight wars in Afghanistan and Turkey with drones piloted from safe rooms here in the U.S. I honestly don't understand why we couldn't do something similar with this issue. Place a drone every 30 miles and blanket the border with motion sensors and cameras operated wireless. Put the cameras on 25' poles and a screen of motion sensors on the ground. When a sensor is activated an operator somewhere in Utah would find the nearest pair of cameras and begin searching for activity. In the meantime a drone would be directed to the area for even closer inspection of any movement. Once movement was confirmed to be human (motion sensors would likely need to be tuned for certain size and weight so that they're not always going off because a fox crossed the line), an agent, or group of agents if it's a large party, would be dispatched to the area to apprehend.

In heavily populated areas on the border you might need more drone stations and agents would be closer also. Most of the Mexican border is scrub land and prairie. So long as we could get an agent to an area like that within 30 minutes or so they could likely apprehend any crosser. The drones could actually keep track of them as they continued on before the agent was in place. Of course, some drones might get shot down, but that would be a pretty sure sign that illegal activity was going on. However, if the drones could stay a fairly safe distance away and use powerful lenses that could see for say a half mile, then the chance of them getting shot down would be minimized. Depending on the amount of activity in the area we could likely dispatch two drones for each activity so that if one were shot down, the other could continue on.

This plan would surely need a lot of money for the technology, but I'm sure it would be far, far less costly than an actual wall. I believe that there are other options to achieve the goal that a wall is expected to achieve, with a lot less cost and less damage to the environment of the area. Good drones can be had for $500-$1,000. A 2,000 mile border with drone stations every 30 miles (app. 70 drone stations) could likely be covered for a cost of a couple of million dollars. Cameras on poles every 500' would likely cost another couple of million dollars. I'm not sure what a field of motion sensors that large would cost, but surely no more than $4-5 million. All the computer technology to tie everything together would run another few million. I think a pretty good system could be set up for less than $100 million dollars. But honestly, someone would need to put up a design first and then the costs could be estimated.

Maybe some smart brainiac could come up with a viable solution before Donald Trump drains the treasury for his wall.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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erealmz

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Apparently we have reached the point where Satire is no longer recognized in society.

So for those who are confused, no I don't want to turn the border into a tower defense game. I want to draw attention to the fact that it is already being done in the world.
And we still have yet to reach the point where stupid sarcasm is no longer recognized either...
 
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Kenny'sID

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Estimates for the cost of Trump's proposed borde21.6 r wall are hard to pin down. This article references anywhere from 20 some billion, to three times that or more. And there are questions about how effective it would be.

But what if we used tested technology instead of a wall?

Samsung SGR-A1 - Wikipedia

The Samsung Sentry gun may (unknown as classified) be capable of functioning as a lethal autonomous weapons system. However, it can also function with a human involved.

If they were placed every mile along the Mexican-USA border it would cost less than half a billion to produce the units. There may be additional installation fees. However, they would be far less than a border wall.

The unit can sound an alarm, shoot bullets at a rate of up to 1,000 rounds per minute, or utilize a multi-grenade launcher.

The system can accept authorization codes, and recognize voices, etc.
These are currently used by South Korea in the demilitarized zone.

It could certainly pose problems for drug runners, etc. trying to cross as well.

It probably would not take long for the word to spread and for border crossings to stop.

Of course if things ever went down hill this would also trap us in our own country. And undoubtedly someone would turn on the automated mode by mistake and it might mow down folks. But since we seem bent on creating autonomous killing machines and computer AI's that will probably take over at some point anyway, why not go for the cost savings? And then we could add to our title of biggest weapons exporter and largest military budget in the world the title of most militarized border.

I'd at least like to see the movie. :)
 
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