celestialpearl

Baby Anglican
Oct 3, 2017
120
195
32
Kentucky
✟14,488.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
My simple answer..

God had this perfect plan for the world, sin ruined it. The price of sin is death. So Jesus went through this suffering and death so that we could live.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:13

There may be a multifaceted reason why and many questions can arise, but we aren't supposed to be able to fully understand God's plan or why he does things the way he does. As the bible states, his thoughts and ways are much higher than ours.
 
  • Like
Reactions: faroukfarouk
Upvote 0

faroukfarouk

Fading curmudgeon
Apr 29, 2009
35,902
17,177
Canada
✟279,058.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
My simple answer..

God had this perfect plan for the world, sin ruined it. The price of sin is death. So Jesus went through this suffering and death so that we could live.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
John 15:13

There may be a multifaceted reason why and many questions can arise, but we aren't supposed to be able to fully understand God's plan or why he does things the way he does. As the bible states, his thoughts and ways are much higher than ours.
Well, exactly.
"...my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55.8-9)
 
Upvote 0

Tayla

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Sep 30, 2017
1,694
801
USA
✟147,315.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
What I mean by "Atonement" is the process that Christ went through in the garden of Gethsemane, his suffering on the cross, etc.

What do y'all think really happened there? what is the significance of it? I would appreciate y'alls opinions.
Jesus, the second person of the Trinity, atoned for our sins on the cross, not the garden of Gethsemane.

(And while we're on the subject, Christ is not the brother of the devil begotten through sexual relations between God and his goddess wife who both came from another planet.)
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
There may be a multifaceted reason why and many questions can arise, but we aren't supposed to be able to fully understand God's plan or why he does things the way he does. As the bible states, his thoughts and ways are much higher than ours.
Yet, to whom does YHWH reveal the TRUTH ? (btw: little children) :)

And as to understanding this matter (this thread subject), or anything else for that matter, as Scripture repeatedly shows:
"Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Then opened he their understanding,.... He not only opened their hearts, to attend to what he said, and the proofs he gave of his resurrection from the dead in a true body; but he removed the veil from the eyes of their minds, and gave them an understanding of the sacred writings, respecting this matter:

that they might understand the Scriptures; concerning his sufferings, death, and resurrection, which they were very ignorant of before, and which were as a sealed book unto them, John 20:9 though they had been from their infancy brought up to the reading of the Scriptures, and had had the advantage of Christ's ministry for some years; which shows the necessity of the special illumination of the Spirit, and the influence of his grace to remove the darkness of the mind, and give the true sense of the sacred writings."

Luke 24:45 Then he opened their minds so they could ... - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/luke/24-45.htm
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, King James Bible Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

i.e. YHWH and YESHUA open the minds of the disciples to understand. The Father is well pleased to reveal everything concerning Salvation to little children (those simply trusting Him, who love Him, who are called according to His Purpose), as Jesus states clearly also.
 
Upvote 0

JWO

FaithWithoutWorks IsDead
Oct 7, 2017
70
7
Aurora
✟906.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What I mean by "Atonement" is the process that Christ went through in the garden of Gethsemane, his suffering on the cross, etc.

What do y'all think really happened there? what is the significance of it? I would appreciate y'alls opinions.

Part 1 --
The Scapegoat of the Atonement

Leviticus 16:
7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. 10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with Him, and to let Him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Matthew 4:
1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to Him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh Him up into the holy city, and setteth Him on a pinnacle of the temple, 6 And saith unto Him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give His angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto Him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth Him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto Him.

In Leviticus 16, the goat means "a he-goat;
by analogy, a faun:--devil, goat, hairy, kid, rough, satyr."(Strong's)

And Scapegoat means the "goat of departure." (Strong's)

Matthew 4:10 "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence (depart), Satan..."

Therefore, Genesis 3:15 has been fulfilled.

Jesus made Satan the scapegoat... which is only fair, since Satan's the one who brought about the fall of Adam and Eve.

Part 2 --
Redemption from the Death Penalty

Genesis 2:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

But even once the sin is removed, the man is still under the death sentence. And the only thing that took away that penalty is the blood and water shed by the Lamb of God.

John 19:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced His side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

Deuteronomy 12:
23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.

Jeremiah 2:
13 For My people have committed two evils; they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

John 4:
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Matthew 4
4 But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

John 6:
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

The Blood and water are redemption from the death sentence through the life of Jesus: Life, represented by His blood... and His water is life eternal. And His flesh is nothing less than the word of God that He taught you.

Part 3 -- is up to you

John 12:
48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.
 
Upvote 0

lookin

Member
Mar 10, 2005
19
7
✟672.00
Faith
Non-Denom
What I mean by "Atonement" is the process that Christ went through in the garden of Gethsemane, his suffering on the cross, etc.

What do y'all think really happened there? what is the significance of it? I would appreciate y'alls opinions.
Jesus redeemed us. In other words, he bought us back with his blood. We were His to begin with, then we were slaves to sin, until He bought us back. The significance is huge and years of stories in the Old Testament (which are true) all pointed to a savior who would rule in our hearts and mind. This came to fruition when Jesus was born and died on the cross.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,416
4,598
Hudson
✟281,625.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
What I mean by "Atonement" is the process that Christ went through in the garden of Gethsemane, his suffering on the cross, etc.

What do y'all think really happened there? what is the significance of it? I would appreciate y'alls opinions.

The only way to cancel a debt is to pay it. So if you had a friend who owed a large debt that they couldn't pay, then the only way for you to cancel their debt would be to pay what they owed in their place. The same holds true if you were the one that your friend owed money to. Wiping the books clean would still mean that you would still be out the money that they owed you, so again it would be essentially you paying their debt for them in their place. The wages of sin death, so in order for God to forgive the debt that we owe, He would need to pay our penalty for us in our place, which is why it was necessary for Christ to die for the forgiveness of our sins.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums