Matthew 23:9 is it a Blow / Bashing Against Catholics...?

PanDeVida

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Matthew 23:9 is it a Blow / Bashing Against Catholics or does it just show that many Protestants do not understand Matthew 23:9?

Matthew 23:9And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

For the many Protestants who bash the Catholics for calling a Priest Father or their own Father Father, MUST not Obey the 4th Commandment of “Honor thy father and mother".

It is sad for one to Obey the 4th Commandment,“Honor thy father and mother", and then Bash Catholics for Calling a Priest Father or their own Father, Father???


Honor thy Father and Mother: This commandment obliges the faithful to show respect for their parents — as children and adults. Children must obey their parents, and adults must respect and see to the care of their parents, when they become old and infirm.

Again, is it Blow against Catholic or does it just show that the many Protestants do not understand the true meaning behind Matthew 23:9?

To you who uses Matthew 23:9 to bash Catholics, do you "Honor your Father and Mother"??? If, you say you Do "honor your Father and Mother", then please do not use Matthew 23:9 against Catholics, because you will contradicting yourself. Amen
 

yeshuaslavejeff

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Matthew 23:9 is it a Blow / Bashing Against Catholics or does it just show that many Protestants do not understand Matthew 23:9?
Neither perhaps, or both ?

Just like TORAH, as YHWH says, was given to Israel to set them apart from all of the other nations, the gentiles,
so also His Word is for those who believe it is His Word, unchangeable and forever.
 
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PanDeVida

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Neither perhaps, or both ?

Just like TORAH, as YHWH says, was given to Israel to set them apart from all of the other nations, the gentiles,
so also His Word is for those who believe it is His Word, unchangeable and forever.

Jeff, "Yes or No or both" lol can you make up your mind lol you are not making sense. How can it be "neither" or "Both" Do you Honor your Father and Mother Yes or No?
 
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Hidden In Him

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Matthew 23:9And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

For the many Protestants who bash the Catholics for calling a Priest Father or their own Father Father, MUST not Obey the 4th Commandment of “Honor thy father and mother".

The 4th commandment was about one's paternal father. Matthew 23:9 is about not calling others your spiritual fathers. The contexts are different.

To you who uses Matthew 23:9 to bash Catholics, do you "Honor your Father and Mother"??? If, you say you Do "honor your Father and Mother", then please do not use Matthew 23:9 against Catholics, because you will contradicting yourself. Amen

I'm not in the habit of bashing anyone, but I do have to say that this post comes of as antagonistic. Are you sure your heart is in the right place regarding your brothers and sisters in Christ, or do you regard all Protestants as on their way to Hell?
 
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PanDeVida

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You can honor someone without calling them "Father". You can can call them by their real name (William, Stanley, Eugene, George, Harry etc.).

And Yet, the 4th commandment is "Honor your Father and Mother". which only means you can call your Father, Father and your Mother, Mother.

One cannot call your Father by their name, it shows disrespect, that also shows you do not "Honor your Father and Mother".
 
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PanDeVida

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The 4th commandment was about one's paternal father. Matthew 23:9 is about not calling others your spiritual fathers. The contexts are different.



I'm not in the habit of bashing anyone, but I do have to say that this post comes of as antagonistic. Are you sure your heart is in the right place regarding your brothers and sisters in Christ, or do you regard all Protestants as on their way to Hell?

Hidden, where does it say 'Spiritual Father" in Matthew 23:9?

Matthew 23:9And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

It says: "Call none your father" does not say, call none your Spiritual Father.

Hidden, do you "Honor your Father and Mother"? Yes or No.
 
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Hidden In Him

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Hidden, where does it say 'Spiritual Father" in Matthew 23:9?

Matthew 23:9And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

It says: "Call none your father" does not say, call none your Spiritual Father.

When you are dealing with matters of theology, you have to be honest with the text. Whether the verse in question actually says "spiritual father" or not, it is the understood meaning of the passage. In context, Jesus was giving the disciples a warning about insisting on being honored as spiritual authorities over others, and desiring to be "the greatest among them" (v.11):

1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi, for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.
 
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RC1970

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Hidden, where does it say 'Spiritual Father" in Matthew 23:9?

Matthew 23:9And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

It says: "Call none your father" does not say, call none your Spiritual Father.

Hidden, do you "Honor your Father and Mother"? Yes or No.
Can you tell us what you believe Jesus meant in Matthew 23:9?
 
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A_Thinker

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Hidden, where does it say 'Spiritual Father" in Matthew 23:9?

Matthew 23:9And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.

It says: "Call none your father" does not say, call none your Spiritual Father.

Hidden, do you "Honor your Father and Mother"? Yes or No.

The text you quoted goes on to specify our Father, ... who is in heaven.

As He is SPIRIT, that would specify a SPIRITUAL FATHER.
 
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PanDeVida

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Can you tell us what you believe Jesus meant in Matthew 23:9?

"How do you refer to your mother's husband? What do you call him?" If a Catholic is wrong in calling his priest "father," then everyone who refers to his own natural father as "father" is also in the wrong. Both usages would be prohibited by a literal interpretation of Jesus' words.

Jesus came not to abolish but to fulfill the Law of the Old Covenant (Mt 5:17). If in Matthew 23:9 he literally forbids us even to acknowledge our natural fathers as our fathers, how can we keep the fourth commandment ("honor your father and your mother")? Taken literally, Jesus' words in Matthew 23:9 contradict his claim in Matthew 5:17, but we know that the Son of God never contradicts himself.

Look again at the passage in which Jesus says we must call no one "father." In contrast to the attitudes of the Pharisees and others, Jesus is specifying the qualities Christian leaders must exhibit (Mt 23:1-12). The Pharisees.aspired to being called "rabbi" (or "master" or "teacher"), leaders of schools of thought. Among the schools headed by teachers called "rabbi" there were divergences of belief, some of them in actual contradiction. A similar situation prevailed with regard to the term "father" (in Aramaic, abba, a title of honor). The title was given to well-known Jewish religious authorities of the past. As with "rabbi," so with "father." The term designated the progenitor of a particular, even contradictory, interpretation of the Jewish faith.

Why did Jesus declare that no Christian leader is to be called "rabbi" or "father"? He was telling us that no leader may set up his own interpretation of the Catholic faith and seek followers for his opinions. The role of leaders in Christ's Church is faithfully to hand on Christ's teaching received through the apostles (Mt 28:19). The words of the apostle Paul epitomize the essential attitude of the Christian teacher: "This is what I received from the Lord and in turn passed on to you" (1 Cor 11:23). Paul condemns in the church at Corinth "these slogans you have, like 'I am for Paul,' 'I am for Apollos,' 'I am for Cephas' (1 Cor 1:12).

The history of Protestantism is essentially the story of this very process--the unending proliferation of sectarian groups, saying "I am for Martin Luther" or "I am for John Calvin" or "I am for John Wesley." The World Christian Encyclopedia (David B. Barrett, ed.; Oxford, 1982) reported that in 1980 there were 20,780 distinguishable Christian denominations in the world. Moreover, at the time the encyclopedia was published, an average of 270 new denominations were springing up each year--more than five every week. If that rate has continued, then there are over 25,000 denominations today. Every single one of these competing, contradicting denominations was formed by some person who said, in effect, "Call me 'Master,' call me 'Teacher'; I will tell you what the Christian truth is!"

Jesus foresaw this problem and provided the means for avoiding it. In the passage under discussion, he tells us, "you have only one teacher, the Christ." And how are we to be taught by our one Teacher? By the means he provided. He founded the Church on the apostles and their successors, with a special role for Peter, the Rock, the earthly head of the Church. A Catholic knows that when the Church Christ founded speaks solemnly, Christ himself is speaking through her to each member.

Every follower of Christ wants to know the truth, for "the truth [and only the truth] will make you free" (Jn 8:22). For acquiring that truth in its fullness, the Catholic Church established by Jesus Christ offers the only alternative to the chaos of ever-expanding denominationalism.

Incidentally, both Old and New Testaments associate priesthood with fatherhood (cf. Jgs 17:10, 18:19, and 1 Cor 4:15), but in this case, Jesus' command is not violated. Being a simple priest is in no way turning yourself into a guru and founding your own school of thought.

CATHOLIC.COM
 
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PanDeVida

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The text you quoted goes on to specify our Father, ... who is in heaven.

As He is SPIRIT, that would specify a SPIRITUAL FATHER.


Thinker, "How do you refer to your mother's husband? What do you call him?" If a Catholic is wrong in calling his priest "father," then everyone who refers to his own natural father as "father" is also in the wrong. Both usages would be prohibited by a literal interpretation of Jesus' words.

Thinker, does Jesus Christ contradicts himself by stating in
John 8:56 below? Yes or No answer.

John 8: 56Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad.

Here John 8:55 Jesus Proves that the Catholics interpretation is the correct one for Christ does not contradict Himself.





 
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Hidden In Him

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Why did Jesus declare that no Christian leader is to be called "rabbi" or "father"? He was telling us that no leader may set up his own interpretation of the Catholic faith and seek followers for his opinions.

Nice try, but not so. Jesus was saying that no one should seek honor as a religious authority, since that was the reason why the Pharisees were sinning as they were. They were seeking glory among men (Matthew 23:5). Now you could argue that Catholic priests are not doing this so much as positioning themselves as representatives of the Heavenly Father, such as for doing things like receiving confessions and the like (I think this is the traditional argument). But the source you are quoting above is making a weak argument and being dishonest with the text.
 
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kepha31

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Matthew 23:9 is it a Blow / Bashing Against Catholics or does it just show that many Protestants do not understand Matthew 23:9?
Matthew 23:9 is used by funnymentalists as a bat to beat Catholics with because anti-Catholicism is a tradition of men. They use this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests “father.”

This is an example of “eisegesis” (imposing one’s views upon a passage) as opposed to “exegesis” (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context). In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father. Catholics don't do this with our priests! It's a no brainer!

1 Cor. 4:15 – Paul writes, “I became your father in Christ Jesus.”
By the same reasoning, Paul must be a heretic!

Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?” Because they don't follow the Bible as they claim?

THE PRIESTHOOD - FATHERS, CELIBACY & WOMEN'S ORDINATION - Scripture Catholic
 
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Hidden In Him

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1 Cor. 4:15 – Paul writes, “I became your father in Christ Jesus.”
By the same reasoning, Paul must be a heretic!

No. He is using the analogy of a father, not insisting on being addressed as a "father." Two different things.
,1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.”

No. He is addressing literal fathers and literal sons here.
Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father. Catholics don't do this with our priests! It's a no brainer!

Yes, but they do break this commandment in a sense, because they do address priests using titles of distinction. This was what Jesus was warning against, and why He gave the commandment not to.
 
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A_Thinker

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Thinker, "How do you refer to your mother's husband? What do you call him?" If a Catholic is wrong in calling his priest "father," then everyone who refers to his own natural father as "father" is also in the wrong. Both usages would be prohibited by a literal interpretation of Jesus' words.


You're willfully ignoring the fact that the passage you cited specifies God as our SPIRITUAL FATHER.

Thinker, does Jesus Christ contradicts himself by stating in
John 8:56 below? Yes or No answer.

John 8: 56 Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad.

Abraham was the NATURAL FATHER of the Jewish nation.
 
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A_Thinker

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The history of Protestantism is essentially the story of this very process--the unending proliferation of sectarian groups, saying "I am for Martin Luther" or "I am for John Calvin" or "I am for John Wesley."

Not really ...

Protestants have slight differences in PRACTICE, ... but tend to avoid unhealthy attachments to "personalities". Certainly we avoid the authoritarian addition to "what has been laid down by the Apostles" ... to bring in new and innovative beliefs, such as "The Assumption of Mary".
 
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kepha31

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No. He is using the analogy of a father, not insisting on being addressed as a "father." Two different things.
No. He is addressing literal fathers and literal sons here.
Yes, but they do break this commandment in a sense, because they do address priests using titles of distinction. This was what Jesus was warning against, and why He gave the commandment not to.
WRONG. Jesus was telling them not to elevate rabbis and teachers to the level of the heavenly Father. Your eisegesis is glaring.

If I have a friend who gets ordained and he becomes an analogy???, or a father in Christ Jesus? You are playing word games. Today's Catholic priests are not so elevated. They even say from the pulpit they are no special than anybody else. Your Bible twisting is offensive.

Matt. 23:9 – Jesus says, “call no man father.” But Protestants use this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests “father.” This is an example of “eisegesis” (imposing one’s views upon a passage) as opposed to “exegesis” (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context). In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father.

Matt. 23:8 – in this teaching, Jesus also says not to call anyone teacher or rabbi as well. But don’t Protestants call their teachers “teacher?” What about this commandment of Jesus? When Protestants say “call no man father,” they must also argue that we cannot call any man teacher either.

Judges 17:10; 18:19 – priesthood and fatherhood have always been identified together. Fatherhood literally means “communicating one’s nature,” and just as biological fathers communicate their nature to their children, so do spiritual fathers communicate the nature of God to us, their children, through (hopefully) teaching and example.

Eph. 3:14-15 – every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.

Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”

1 Cor. 4:15 – Paul writes, “I became your father in Christ Jesus.”

1 Cor. 4:17 – Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.

2 Cor. 12:14 – Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.

Phil. 2:22 – Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 – Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.

Titus 1:4 – Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.

Philemon 10 – Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.

Heb. 12:7,9 – emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).

1 Peter 5:13 – Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”

1 John 2:1,13,14 – John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”

1 John 2:1,18,28; 3:18; 5:21; 3 John 4 – John calls members of the Church “children.”

We call our priests "Father" because it's biblical and have been doing it since the time of Paul.
 
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kepha31

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Not really ...
Protestants have slight differences in PRACTICE, ... but tend to avoid unhealthy attachments to "personalities". Certainly we avoid the authoritarian addition to "what has been laid down by the Apostles" ... to bring in new and innovative beliefs, such as "The Assumption of Mary".
When an argument gets refuted, introduce a theological concept as a derailing tactic. It's always Mary, purgatory or saints. "new and innovative beliefs" is standard Protestant ignorance.
Of course, no mention of new and innovative beliefs like "Bible alone, "faith alone" and a list of others that didn't exist before the 15th century.

17. Protestantism leans too much on mere traditions of men. Every denomination stems from one founder’s vision, which contradicts something previously received from apostolic Tradition and passed down. As soon as two or more of these contradict each other, error is necessarily present.

18. Protestant churches (especially evangelicals), are far too often guilty of putting their pastors on too high of a pedestal. In effect, often pastors (at least in some denominational traditions) becomes a “pope,” to varying degrees. Because of this, evangelical congregations often experience a severe crisis and/or split up when a pastor leaves, thus proving that their philosophy is overly man-centered, rather than God-centered (Catholic parishes usually don’t experience such a crisis when a priest departs). Many pastors have far more power in their congregations than the pope has over the daily life of any Catholic.

30. The lack of a definitive teaching authority in Protestant (as with the Catholic magisterium) makes many individual Protestants think that they have a direct line to God, notwithstanding all of Christian Tradition and the history of biblical exegesis (a “Bible, Holy Spirit and me” mentality). Such people are generally under-educated theologically, unteachable, lack humility, and have no business making presumed “infallible” statements about the nature of Christianity.

150 Reasons Why I Became (and Remain) a Catholic
 
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