HELP!my husband is really not who I thought he was

Endeavourer said:

It is also my conviction that when sexual infidelity occurs, the betrayed spouse is NOT obligated to attempt reconciliation and is NOT obligated to re-engage in the marriage even if there is true repentance.

Instead, the Bible leaves that up to the betrayed spouse and either decision is Biblical.

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I really cannot say I disagree. But like with everything I need to pray over it as well.
In addition to the question of should I stay or should I go, this whole thing had really got me questioning the duality of right and wrong, good and bad and so forth. This however is more of an internal understanding thing. One thing is for sure, I think I really over estimated the type of man my husband is and underestimated the type of man my sister in law's husband is.

Endeavourer said:

For now, I'd stay out of your benefactors' consciences and just be the best witness to your convictions that you can.

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All this is for my own introspection. I am in no place to criticize my sister in law or her husband. Honestly, I am trying to work through what my own personal convictions are. I am trying to absorb how I coitus have been so wrong about two different men. I'll admit I use to think that not only were my sister in law and her husband criminals I thought they were awful souless people. I was completely wrong about the awful abs souless part. Yet they gleefully admit to being criminals so I am trying to reprioritize my own view on morality.

Dave-W said:

That is good. The pastor (of whatever church he attends) needs to be aware of it as well. Do that as soon as you possibly can.

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I see what you are saying but another reason I am hesitant to involve the church is because I am scared how people would view me and how they would treat me in the future. I know that seems selfish but that's just would be another source of anxiety for me. Believe me it was extremely hard for me to bring this up to my husband's parents and to my sister in law and her husband . My husband's patents flipped the judgement onto me by accusing me of not loving enough. Even though my sister in law and he husband have been really good to me, the teasing from them can be pretty hurtful some times (they both seem to have taken a liking to running into the room screaming that my husband is coming and that I need to quickly hide in the oven, the refigerator or smoker).

Papias said:

This is not "funny". It's abusive. I wouldn't feel safe if they made light of this situation. If it's abuse of a woman, it's fodder for jokes, but if the situation were reversed, no one would be doing this nor laughing. This is not healthy.

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There is nothing I can really do about this one thing. I am a guest in their home and this is just their way. The husband especially, had a very good heart but for lack of better words is a jackass. He loves goading people and considers it "good natured ribbing". He is from a different culture (born in Hong Kong)and comes from a secular Chinese family. He doesn't seem to appreciate the gravity of my situation, and doesn't see the big deal. Even when I showed him that my husband had fantasies involving his daughter he doesn't see why this is a big deal as long as she isn't alone with him. This could be a cultural thing, but to his credit he said that if this is a big deal to me I am welcome to stay as long as I need. My sister in law is a little better when it comes to understanding the gravity of the situation but I think she gets swept up in the goading and taunting when her husband does it.

Endeavourer said:

I agree with Papias - but I also agree with you.

Most wayward husbands are cowards, so it would be VERY unlikely your husband would show up to be judged and abused by people he feels so superior to. Can you just convince yourself to be very confident that he would never show up so you are not emotionally rattled with their poor "jokes"?

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No part of me is actually afraid of my husband. For one I know is is terrified of his brother in law. You see brother in law is one of those highly armed antigovernment types so their house is a fortress. Truth be told I am 100% convinced that my husband's fetish is fantasy only, it doesn't make it less sick or less of a betrayal bit I am confident he would never actually kill and eat any one.
About the jokes. I find them irksome but I live with it. I hate how my sister in law's husband took to calling me bacon and I hate how my sister in law likes to pinch my tummy fat but I sought out their protection. I just don't want to have to deal with it from other people as well.

Tropical Wilds said:

So...

Get out. Stay out. Tell the police. Get a lawyer. Get a support network. Lean on it. Get out of your inlaws home and to somebody supportive in the church or your own family. Think about getting a restraining order.

You say that no laws were broken? Well, in our state, that’s not true at all. It’s hard to narrow down all the things that are wrong with what he’s done... And if any of the people he wrote about are children? The illegalities of what he done are too numerous and serious to even get into.

I understand you don’t think he’d act on them, but here’s the thing... He is good enough at what he does to gain a huge following. That means he’s devoted serious time, effort, talent (barf), and brainpower into meticulously imagining this stuff, then transcribing it and kicking it out there into the Internet. The line between “vivid imagination” and something we read about in the news gets more blurred the more time he indulges, the more fame he gets for indulging it, and the more into it he gets. And the more that happens, the more desensitized he gets... The more desensitized, the bigger the danger he becomes. If not to you, certainly to other people.

And let’s be honest... This time last week you probably didn’t think him capable of being a canabalizing inappropriate content eroticsist who exploited you and family members. Yet here we are. And who’s to say if he wouldn’t do it, one of these guys he’s writing for wouldn’t show up in your doorstep and do it? You’re unwittingly the subject of this stuff... You can’t tell me that this community of likeminded sociopaths wouldn't dream of seeking out the subjects of these stories they have no emotional investment in seeing kept safe (quite the opposite actually) and are 100% upstanding, non-violent folks. Their only investment in you is a decided lack of interest or care in your wellbeing, so this opens you up to a world of danger. I mean, I have a modest online following IRL writing about G rated things and things that are active turnoffs to most people, yet I’ve has weirdos turn up. To have that base of people, but built on fantasizing about hurting me and worse? I’m sorry, but you’re not safe. Maybe not from him but certainly not from them.

What he’s doing? That is abuse, exploitation, and it’s sociopath, personality disorder behaviors. It’s not even an issue up to interpretation. It’s the very basic definition of it. He is a danger, and the fact he has no remorse for it or can’t even see what’s wrong with it... I can hear the warning bells from here.

There is absolutely zero way one can safely rebuild a marriage from this violation. What you are talking about is a man who fantasizes about assaulting, murdering, and canabalizing you. A man who’s sexually aroused by depriving a child of its mother, ending her life, and desecrating her remains for further sexual enjoyment... Then detailing that fantasy to others so that strangers can become sexually aroused at the desecration. A man who also details incest, murder, and desecration for arousal, shared in a way to arouse others, and who, on top of that, sees nothing wrong with it AND has an online and IRL support system telling him that there’s nothing wrong with it, which means he will quite literally NEVER change as he has no reason to.

There literally is no part of you that should ever be ok with trying to make work.

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I have already taken my son and are out of that house. We are staying with my sister in law and her husband. I am not the one who is justifying my husband's actions as ok because they are "not illegal " that is the justification of his parents. My sister in law and her husband do not condone nor do they support his behavior.
My son is autistic so this is the best arrangement right now since having his cousin around is a comfort to him. Right now reconciliation IS NOT on the table.

Tropical Wilds said:

I know you aren’t justifying his actions, far from it, or saying what he did is legal. That was more a general statement that covered what a few folks said and the overall impression you, the victim of abuse and exploitation, are being forced to face from people who (for some reason) excuse this behavior. You’re handling this as well and better than most could expect. If it were me, I’d have had half your clarity and courage. I’d be a sobbing mess at a police department or a courthouse. You’re a strong, strong lady.

What can we do to help?

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The help I am looking for us more for my own personal introspection. This whole ordeal really has given me a lot to ponder and shook some of my deepest held convictions on ethics and morality. As for physical help I already found that. I have a safe place to stay with my son, my sister in law's husband's best friend is an attorney do if I were to decide to end the marriage I have the attorney covered, and as of late I have been the family bread winner so the financial situation will not really change much.
The points of introspection are as follows:
1) do I have grounds, biblically not secular to end the marriage? Would I be considered an adulterer if I remarried? Jesus said that if a man divorces his wife and she remarried he had made her an adulterer. It seems from all the responses I got from here it looks like I should not feel guilty about ending my marriage.
2)the people who took me in are my sister in law and her husband. They have been very very kind to me despite some very bad blood in the far and recent past. They are amazingly forgiving people, but this in and of itself has caused my moral conviction to be shaken.
I have never claimed to be perfect myself but I have always done my best to live by the law both the laws of God and the laws of man. That is how my husband and his family presented themselves too. I and my husband and his parents have always been the law and order type. However, my sister in law's husband is decidedly anti law and order. He despises the law hates the government, despises authority and revels in rebellion (he constantly engages in retail fraud and shady labor practices, and he has absolutely no shame about it. In fact he even refers to himself as the king of Thieves in front of his wife and 14 year old daughter) . As such, him and my sister in law have been at odds with us and my father in law for quite some time. Now when I discovered my husband's dark fetish, his parents were completely unsympathetic. They argued that I was over reacting and that although what their son finds sexually gratifying is "weird" it's harmless and not illegal. Mind you these are people who always harped on the importance of keeping both God's laws and man's laws. I reminded then that Jesus said that if a man were to look upon a woman with lust he would have already committed adultery. Therefore this is against God's laws even if it may be legal in the secular sense. Their defense was that it was not up to me to judge if something was against God's law or not. Since I had no where else to turn, my birth sister and parents live out of state I had to humble my self to approach my sister in law and her husband. To me this was a hail marry because just recently we had it out with them concerning their unlawful behavior. But to my surprise they agreed to take me and my son in. And since I have been living there neither of them have breathed a single word of any past wrongs. Also it is clear that they do not really see this as a big deal, it is evidenced by the fact that they do tease me a lot about my husband's fetish. Like when I first moved in, sister in law's husband asked me " so are we talking Hansel and Gretle?, Hannibal Lecter? Or is this a fee fi fo fum situation? ". So it is obvious that he doesn't really empathize yet despite his lack of empathy he still recognizes that this is a big deal to me, let me into his home and treats me more like a member of his family rather than a guest or refugee. So this is the crux of my second point of introspection. For as long as I have known my sister in law and her husband I have always thought then to be extremely shady since they constantly cheated and stole from big box stores. I always thought that they justified their avarice by demonizing the government and big corporations. I have always believed that my husband and his parents held the moral ground due to their steadfast fidelity to the law. Now my own moral conviction had been thrown through a loop because the people who openly reject the law (I have heard my niece parrot her dad saying that she cares not for the 10 commandments or the laws of the state) have shown me the utmost love and compassion yet those who champion the law hide behind it to justify their own ends.
3)I know some of my anger is rooted in envy. Setting aside the disturbing nature of the cannibal inappropriate content. The fact is my husband spent time, money (there is a site you can buy "portfolios" of models posed like they are food, they are about 25 dollars a pop), and effort in his fetish. He was doing this while I was out working to support us. Then I see my sister in law's husband, he has a full time job with which he provides for his daughter and wife. Then he hustles with his shady "extra curriculars" to make extra money with which to spoil his wife and daughter. On top of that he still spends quality time with both of them. Like the other night he got home, put on some music, grabbed his daughter out of her chair and did a tango with her. Then his wife cut in and they danced as the daughter clapped and sang. This is life at their house, where as even before I discovered the inappropriate content, I would get home from my job dead tied, my husband would be on the computer (at the time I thought he was job hunting), and I would have to start dinner. So I know it sounds awful but part of me is very envious. Therefore I was wanting help working through that.
4)now this is going to sound very awful but part of me is angry at my self for my own moral convictions. I can't help to think now that, perhaps my personal belief that I have always held that right is right and wrong is wrong has failed me. I have always tried to live a moral life, and surround myself with people who at least recognized the importance of attempting to keep the law. This is the reason why I along with the majority of my husband's family were very apprehensive when my sister in law married her husband. This is a guy who openly would tell us he doesn't care what the law says, he doesn't care what Jesus wants he looks out for him and his. That's caused a lot of consternation in the family. My sister in law completely bucked the law and order morality of her family and her life is extremely easy and fun. Where as the Dane law and order types are now using arguments of "its not illegal ", Jesus hates divorce, and God's law demands forgiveness to coerce me to return to my husband. I know it sounds awful but I am staying to wonder if I should start living like my sister in law and her husband. They reject authority but they are happy, they clearly fulfill the commandment of love in spades and they are very comfirtable.

Papias said:

Yes, of course do whatever you have to do, including staying there. Be aware that there probably are women's shelters you can find in your town if you look online and around. In any case, I hope you are OK wherever you are.

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I have an autistic 12 year old so a women's shelter is not a good place for him. Like I said, I find the jokes annoying but I am still very thankful for them. I know they are not being malicious, they just don't seem to think this is big a deal as I do. For my sister in law's husband at least I think it is a cultural thing. He thinks what my husband is into is a bit strange but he doesn't think it should be a big deal. He is a first generation Chinese immigrant and he told me that when he was in ESL the teacher had them read Hansel and Gretel, Jack and the bean stalk, little red riding hood and tales of Baba Yaga so according to him "your culture has a really rich lexicon of stories involving people eating eachother". So as such he feels that it is fair game to tease me about it.

Endeavourer said:

The post is a lot to process in a single chunk, so for now I'll just direct comments to two portions:



Yes, you have Biblical grounds to divorce on the basis of adultery. I provided a more in-depth comment to this above about how it was sexually based betrayal and accordingly would interfere with your marriage bed for the rest of your marriage.

It is a lot to process if your prior convictions believed that actual sexual penetration is required to rise to the level of "adultery". However, Jesus gives your conscience latitude and discretion when he says that looking at a woman to lust after her is already adultery in your heart. Obviously most consciences wouldn't construe this to be one single, simple look and most women would not want to end their marriage over such, but your situation is at the far other extreme side of this comment - exactly the situation most consciences would apply his comment towards.


The Bible does not say Jesus hates divorce. That is a distortion of a comment in Malachi 2 which is used often to perpetrate spiritual abuse. In Malachi 2, God states that he hates the treacherous behavior of husbands that cause a divorce. His hatred is at the behavior not the divorce.

Malachi 2:
14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.




NOT TRUE!!!!! Jesus gave several exceptions allowing for divorce. Do not listen to anyone trying to tell you otherwise because they are simply imposing their doctrines of man upon you; giving you a heavy burden to bear that they themselves do not have to bear (living with a spouse who has betrayed them in this way and who has the addiction yours does).

If your church is taking this position with you, leave it. Do not allow them to subject you to spiritual abuse. Do not allow anyone else to be your conscience.

A great web site for support for exactly this situation is cryingoutforjustice.com.

Further, to insist this type of forgiveness and reconciliation is an enormous twist on the Bible's teaching of forgiveness. There is a huge and very harmful error that many churches perpetrate upon victims by telling them that God insists they forgive and reconcile with their abuser. Some churches even say you have to forgive your abuser before he(or she) even asks you to!

This is not Biblical but we've all heard it so many times that we simply accept it to be true. It's not true, and it's not in the Bible! For example, read the story of Joseph and how he tested out his brother's hearts before he considered forgiveness.

That's just the start of a study of many, many instructions in Scripture that contradict the popular heresy that Christians are mandated to forgive and reconcile with their abusers.

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Thank you so much. Let me tell you, your replies have really helped deal with the guilt I have been feeling over my desire to leave my husband. I am sill praying over it because I want to be 100% sure that none of my feelings for wanting to bail have to do with a selfish desire to live a more comfortable life. That is why I really want to kick the feelings of envy I have towards my sister in laws life before I actually decide to sign the paper and be out
Also no, I have never believed that penetration was required as a prerequisite to adultery.