The churches are in dire need of understanding this!

BCsenior

Still an evangelist
Aug 31, 2017
2,980
715
British Columbia
✟72,426.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Now, as we are entering into the end of the end times, the time is short indeed for believers to become true believers … by starting to obey Jesus’ commandments!
Please also see my first thread, “Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?”

The Holy Spirit, God’s angels, and Satan’s angels (demons) can all speak to us (spiritually), i.e. they can place thoughts into our minds (but demons cannot read our thoughts).

The Holy Spirit will dwell INSIDE the true (obedient) believer …
but this thread is not really about this point, so I will only list some references:
John 14:15-24, John 15:1-10, Acts 5:32, 2 Cor 13:5, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.

Now, on to the purpose of the thread:
Obedience results in the believer remaining “in Christ”.

John 14 (NLT, 2007)
15 If you love me, obey my commandments.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
17 He is the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth ... you know him,
because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
20 … you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.
And because they love me, my Father will love them.
And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.
23 All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them,
and we will come and make our home with each of them.
24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.

Jesus says believers who love Him and obey His commandments – are “in me” (v.20).
This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

1 John 2:3-5 (NLT, 2007)
3 And we can be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments.
4 If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments,
that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.
5 But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him.
That is how we know we are living in him.

John says believers who know and love Jesus and obey His commandments –
are “in him” (v.5). This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

I have summarized Jesus’ warnings in John 15 …
John 15 (NLT, 2007)
1 I (Jesus) am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He (Father God) cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit …
4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it
is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.
5 Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches.
Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit.
6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.
8 When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples.
9 Remain in my love.
10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love,
just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

Please note that “every branch of mine” (v.2), and “you” (v.5), refer to believers in Jesus. Jesus says those who obey His commandments “remain in my love” (v.10). This is what being “in Christ” is all about. And He says those who “do not remain in me” are thrown away and burned (v.6). So, remaining in Jesus (through loving and obeying Him) is mandatory for final salvation!

“To remain in Christ means to love him, to obey him, to pray to him, to worship him. In other words, to remain in Christ means to be joined to him spiritually, just as a branch is joined to a vine. If we remain joined to Christ in this way, we will be like living branches. And just as the sap of the vine flows into the branches and gives them life, so will Christ’s Spirit flow into us and give us spiritual life. In order to bear fruit, we must remain in Christ. If we do not remain in Christ, we shall not bear fruit. Not only that, we shall wither and die (v.6). … There is only one thing that can separate us from Christ: sin. Sin is like a disease that eats at the base of the branch. We will surely lose our union with Christ, if any known sin remains in our lives for which we have not repented. … We can say that in our Christian lives two main things are necessary: first, Christ through the Holy Spirit, must remain in us; and second, Christ’s words, that is the words of the Bible, must remain in our hearts. … In the Christian life, we always find two things appearing together: promises and conditions.
If we fulfill the condition, God will fulfill His promise. God has never given a promise without also stating a condition along with the promise … To remain in Christ’s love (v.9,10) is the same as to remain in Christ. … To remain in Christ’s love, we must love him. To love him, we must obey him (see John 14:15). As long as we continue to obey Christ, we shall remain in his love, and he and the Father will abide in us (see John 14:21).”
… Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

All through the Epistles, people in the churches are condemned …
if they are involved in habitual sin (note: they have not remained “in Christ”).
“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from
the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:1-2, NKJV)


Those who have remained “in Christ” are free from the law of sin and death …
because they are continually having their sins washed away through repentance!

“But remember, even though we believers have escaped condemnation, sin still remains in our lives. Therefore, we are still guilty of sin and deserving of punishment. But if we repent of our sins, God will not count our sins against us; He will not judge us guilty (see 1 John 1:9).”
… Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

(the uncondemned) no longer follow our sinful nature, but instead follow the Spirit. … So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to (eternal) death. But, letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace.” (Romans 8:4-6, NLT)

“We cannot live according to the sinful nature and according to the Spirit at the same time; we must live according to either one or the other (see Galatians 5, etc.).”
… Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

“For if you live by its (the flesh’s) dictates (desires), you will die (eternally). But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live (eternally). For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.” (Romans 8:13-14, NLT)
 
Last edited:

Thedictator

Retired Coach, Now Missionary to the World
Mar 21, 2010
989
529
Northeast Texas
✟50,142.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Do you have any original thoughts or are you so uneducated that you can only cut and paste others ideas.

First no Christian is lost because they committed a sin, they are lost because they have stop believing in Jesus Christ. 1 Timothy 4:1, sin may be the reason they stopped believing, it could be other reasons as well. Obedience to God's word is required for continued salvation, but that is not a life of no sin only Jesus did that, and it can't be done by us even just a for a moment. The Grace of Jesus Christ blood covers our sin, not our own will.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Junia
Upvote 0

T.S.Bland

Love God Love People
Sep 24, 2017
96
89
52
Kentucky
✟18,545.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Bc, I am trying to understand what your saying. Do you think churches do not know the importance of following Christ, or are you saying people who are believers are not true believers unless they do certain things? I just didn't see what you were getting at.
 
Upvote 0

BCsenior

Still an evangelist
Aug 31, 2017
2,980
715
British Columbia
✟72,426.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Bc, I am trying to understand what your saying. Do you think churches do not know the importance of following Christ, or are you saying people who are believers are not true believers unless they do certain things? I just didn't see what you were getting at.
Thank you for your response, and I will answer very briefly and see where it goes.

There are many dozens of warnings in the NT directed at the churches.
These are warnings about falling away from the faith, etc. and losing salvation.
Some are specific, such as: If you are a slave of sin, you gain eternal death,
and if you are a slave of obedience, you gain righteousness and eternal life!
For example, Romans 6, which very few believers in USA understand ...
partly because they do not understand Paul's incredibly-tactful method of writing!

As for the churches, they major on keeping their members happy,
and keeping the tithes rolling in (many mortgage payments depend on them.)

The Laodicean church of today really needs to wake up before it's too late!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

T.S.Bland

Love God Love People
Sep 24, 2017
96
89
52
Kentucky
✟18,545.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for your response, and I will answer very briefly and see where it goes.

There are many dozens of warnings in the NT directed at the churches.
These are warnings about falling away from the faith, etc. and losing salvation.
Some are specific, such as: If you are a slave of sin, you gain eternal death,
and if you are a slave of obedience, you gain righteousness and eternal life!
For example, Romans 6, which very few believers in USA understand ...
partly because they do not understand Paul's incredibly-tactful method of writing!

As for the churches, they major on keeping their members happy,
and keeping the tithes rolling in (many mortgage payments depend on them.)

The Laodicean church of today really needs to wake up before it's too late!
I absolutely agree about the message given from the pulpit in church.
I have become frustrated with this "surface sermon" in my own church Sunday mornings.
The same thing seem to be said over and over. It is what I call the " Hell is hot and Jesus saves syndrome".
I asked my husband about this and he tells me the pastor wants to keep it simple in a crowd of that size.
But, I look around the congregation and it's the same 150 people that have been there since I started going.
Who are we trying to keep it simple to I wonder...everyone in the building has been saved?
I have grown bored of it. I just think there is so much more to be said.
You have mentioned some very good points about the necessity of the full, in depth, Gospel needing to be heard and lived.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Junia
Upvote 0

BCsenior

Still an evangelist
Aug 31, 2017
2,980
715
British Columbia
✟72,426.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
I have become frustrated with this "surface sermon" in my own church ...
The prophecies coming forth lately are saying ...
God will soon be destroying all of the false churches!
Meanwhile, why don't you pray for God's permission to leave
and find a church that teaches the full counsel of God?
And that includes the "full gospel", which follows the NT churches
in honoring (and asking for) God's signs, wonders, and miracles
to be manifested in the church and in evangelizing!
 
Upvote 0

T.S.Bland

Love God Love People
Sep 24, 2017
96
89
52
Kentucky
✟18,545.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Yes.. Want to. I guess that is why I found this forum.
The church has been wondering where I've been.
It's hard for me to tell them that I need more spiritual growth. I was married there and my husband has a recovery ministry there. I love the people, my mind just wants to get a deeper meaning than "he'll is hot and Jesus saves"..
They also believe woman are to be submissive, volunteer in the kitchen or minister to kids or other women only.
That grinds my gears too.
So I found you guys to vent to.lol..
I really would like to teach Theology and Apologetics.
I can't turn these two loves off. It's all I think about.
I read roughly 3-4 books a month and stay in Scripture.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Junia
Upvote 0

Grace2022

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2017
1,103
1,134
Worcestershire.
✟92,922.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Now, as we are entering into the end of the end times, the time is short indeed for believers to become true believers … by starting to obey Jesus’ commandments!
Please also see my first thread, “Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?”

The Holy Spirit, God’s angels, and Satan’s angels (demons) can all speak to us (spiritually), i.e. they can place thoughts into our minds (but demons cannot read our thoughts).

The Holy Spirit will dwell INSIDE the true (obedient) believer …
but this thread is not really about this point, so I will only list some references:
John 14:15-24, John 15:1-10, Acts 5:32, 2 Cor 13:5, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.

Now, on to the purpose of the thread:
Obedience results in the believer remaining “in Christ”.

John 14 (NLT, 2007)
15 If you love me, obey my commandments.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
17 He is the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth ... you know him,
because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
20 … you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.
And because they love me, my Father will love them.
And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.
23 All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them,
and we will come and make our home with each of them.
24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.

Jesus says believers who love Him and obey His commandments – are “in me” (v.20).
This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

1 John 2:3-5 (NLT, 2007)
3 And we can be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments.
4 If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments,
that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.
5 But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him.
That is how we know we are living in him.

John says believers who know and love Jesus and obey His commandments –
are “in him” (v.5). This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

I have summarized Jesus’ warnings in John 15 …
John 15 (NLT, 2007)
1 I (Jesus) am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener.
2 He (Father God) cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit …
4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it
is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.
5 Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches.
Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit.
6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.
8 When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples.
9 Remain in my love.
10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love,
just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

Please note that “every branch of mine” (v.2), and “you” (v.5), refer to believers in Jesus. Jesus says those who obey His commandments “remain in my love” (v.10). This is what being “in Christ” is all about. And He says those who “do not remain in me” are thrown away and burned (v.6). So, remaining in Jesus (through loving and obeying Him) is mandatory for final salvation!

“To remain in Christ means to love him, to obey him, to pray to him, to worship him. In other words, to remain in Christ means to be joined to him spiritually, just as a branch is joined to a vine. If we remain joined to Christ in this way, we will be like living branches. And just as the sap of the vine flows into the branches and gives them life, so will Christ’s Spirit flow into us and give us spiritual life. In order to bear fruit, we must remain in Christ. If we do not remain in Christ, we shall not bear fruit. Not only that, we shall wither and die (v.6). … There is only one thing that can separate us from Christ: sin. Sin is like a disease that eats at the base of the branch. We will surely lose our union with Christ, if any known sin remains in our lives for which we have not repented. … We can say that in our Christian lives two main things are necessary: first, Christ through the Holy Spirit, must remain in us; and second, Christ’s words, that is the words of the Bible, must remain in our hearts. … In the Christian life, we always find two things appearing together: promises and conditions.
If we fulfill the condition, God will fulfill His promise. God has never given a promise without also stating a condition along with the promise … To remain in Christ’s love (v.9,10) is the same as to remain in Christ. … To remain in Christ’s love, we must love him. To love him, we must obey him (see John 14:15). As long as we continue to obey Christ, we shall remain in his love, and he and the Father will abide in us (see John 14:21).”
… Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

All through the Epistles, people in the churches are condemned …
if they are involved in habitual sin (note: they have not remained “in Christ”).
“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from
the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:1-2, NKJV)


Those who have remained “in Christ” are free from the law of sin and death …
because they are continually having their sins washed away through repentance!

“But remember, even though we believers have escaped condemnation, sin still remains in our lives. Therefore, we are still guilty of sin and deserving of punishment. But if we repent of our sins, God will not count our sins against us; He will not judge us guilty (see 1 John 1:9).”
… Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

(the uncondemned) no longer follow our sinful nature, but instead follow the Spirit. … So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to (eternal) death. But, letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace.” (Romans 8:4-6, NLT)

“We cannot live according to the sinful nature and according to the Spirit at the same time; we must live according to either one or the other (see Galatians 5, etc.).”
… Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

“For if you live by its (the flesh’s) dictates (desires), you will die (eternally). But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live (eternally). For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.” (Romans 8:13-14, NLT)



Hi
quick small question please. How do we know demons cannot read our thoughts?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BCsenior

Still an evangelist
Aug 31, 2017
2,980
715
British Columbia
✟72,426.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Hi, quick small question please.
How do we know demons cannot read our thoughts?
Excellent question.
Through the experience of many Pentecostals and Charismatics.
To my knowledge, it is not in Scripture.
 
Upvote 0

Amittai

baggage apostate
Aug 20, 2006
1,426
491
✟41,180.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
... there is so much more to be said.
...

A Lamassu was recently taken down from Trafalgar Square. The sign of Jonah was the only sign Jesus would give the people of God (us). By the time he arrived in Nineveh Jonah was damaged goods. He was sent to beg them to look after his people, who got taken there shortly afterwards - Galileans first (733).

Jesus was explaining to the Pharisees that their attitude towards fellow believers was akin to the former behaviour of the Assyrians. They weren't best pleased to hear it. They tithed dill, mint and cumin (bad amplifying) and went all out to make recruits seven times worse than themselves.

To feed our brother is to help him gain a fruitful ministry and a crown, himself. That was the sacrificial attitude of Paul.

I came to these country forums because I love geography (= taking the long view).
 
Upvote 0

Junia

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
2,795
1,387
42
Bristol
✟31,159.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Excellent question.
Through the experience of many Pentecostals and Charismatics.
To my knowledge, it is not in Scripture.
I

The devil reads our thoughts because he talks to us . He puts doubts in our mind such as "you're not really saved" or "God is mad at you" or "you never overco!e that sin. God is finished with you"
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums