Is the Gospel undefinable?

AvgJoe

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We are enjoined to believe in Christ (John 6:26) and the essence of that belief is the Gospel. But is the Gospel clearly defined?

Paul speaks clearly in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11:

1 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
However, in Romans 9:10-24, Paul says something quite different:

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

What, exactly, are we being asked to put our faith in?
If the Gospel is undefinable and undefined, then is faith even possible?

Romans 9-11 is not talking about the gospel, predestination or individual election. It is not saying that some people have not and never will have an opportunity to be saved. Rather, it is saying that God has the prerogative to choose the servants He will use to point the world to a salvation that comes not from works but from grace alone.
 
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janxharris

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Romans 9-11 is not talking about the gospel, predestination or individual election. It is not saying that some people have not and never will have an opportunity to be saved. Rather, it is saying that God has the prerogative to choose the servants He will use to point the world to a salvation that comes not from works but from grace alone.

Yet Calvinists are emboldened by such language - they still call themselves Christians and, when interrogated, their Gospel is found to be in complete opposition to the Arminian Gospel.

What's the unbeliever supposed to make of such confusion?
 
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AvgJoe

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Yet Calvinists are emboldened by such language - they still call themselves Christians and, when interrogated, their Gospel is found to be in complete opposition to the Arminian Gospel.

What's the unbeliever supposed to make of such confusion?

That's a good question. It took me along time to figure out what to make of such confusion and I was a Christian, at the time. By the way, I'm neither a Calvinist or Arminian, I'm just a Christian. Some parts, of both of those belief systems, are correct.
 
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janxharris

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That's a good question. It took me along time to figure out what to make of such confusion and I was a Christian, at the time. By the way, I'm neither a Calvinist or Arminian, I'm just a Christian. Some parts, of both of those belief systems, are correct.

What would be your response if you overheard a preacher telling a non-believer that not all people are salvifically provided for?
 
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janxharris

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Christianforums.com (CF) treats both Arminians and Calvinists as Christians (as long as CF's statement of faith is acknowledged (it being the Nicene Creed)), which means that, de facto (i.e. when the Calvin Gospel is scrutinized), two diametrically opposing Gospels are permitted to be broadcast.

Christianforums.com has no definitive Gospel? Surely, this is an untenable situation?

Perhaps I am mistaken? I, respectfully, invite a response from this website.
 
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janxharris

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"CF doesn’t have an official statement on the Gospel. Trying to come up with one, knowing that there are many faith groups, would be difficult. Even though we pretty much all believe that faith in Christ is necessary, whether or not it’s sufficient is where a lot of disagreement comes in."

(Christian Forums Staff Member's opinion)​
 
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ViaCrucis

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So to an unbeliever asking what the good news is, the response is that there's no consensus?

Isn't this shocking?

As it turns out there's theological disagreements among Christians of different traditions.

Most of these disagreements, e.g. the Calvinist v. Arminian debate, is less about disagreement on the Gospel in and of itself--that God is rescuing the world through His Son which is accomplished through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ--as it is on other matters relating to the Gospel.

Both the Calvinist and Arminian can agree on this, that God is rescuing the world, reconciling it to Himself, through His Son by His life, death, and resurrection; the disagreements center upon matters relating to predestination, election, scope, and the role of the human will in relation to divine grace and/or sovereignty.

But if you got a Lutheran, a Presbyterian, a Methodist, a Roman Catholic, and an Eastern Orthodox all in one room and asked if they agreed with this statement: God is rescuing the world through His Son, by the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ; the response would be a unanimous agreement. To therefore paint a picture as though there is no definition or agreement as it pertains to the Gospel is, at best, simply false.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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janxharris

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As it turns out there's theological disagreements among Christians of different traditions.

Most of these disagreements, e.g. the Calvinist v. Arminian debate, is less about disagreement on the Gospel in and of itself--that God is rescuing the world through His Son which is accomplished through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ--as it is on other matters relating to the Gospel.

Both the Calvinist and Arminian can agree on this, that God is rescuing the world, reconciling it to Himself, through His Son by His life, death, and resurrection; the disagreements center upon matters relating to predestination, election, scope, and the role of the human will in relation to divine grace and/or sovereignty.

But if you got a Lutheran, a Presbyterian, a Methodist, a Roman Catholic, and an Eastern Orthodox all in one room and asked if they agreed with this statement: God is rescuing the world through His Son, by the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ; the response would be a unanimous agreement. To therefore paint a picture as though there is no definition or agreement as it pertains to the Gospel is, at best, simply false.

-CryptoLutheran

Of course there will be a consensus if an abstraction such as 'world' is used - but as soon as you try to define it then the problems begin.

Defining the Gospel should be simple - and Paul does so in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8, but as we have seen on this thread, some Christians (as CF defines them) say that such a Gospel is only to be spoken to believers.

The unbeliever who is curious to know exactly what it is they are being asked to put their faith still isn't being presented with a definitive Gospel here.
 
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janxharris

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The christianforums.com (CF) page - How do I become a Christian? has this:
  • "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." --Romans 5:8 (NIV)
So it would seem that CF is telling unbelievers that Christ died for them. That being the case, why would CF allow those that say that Christ did not die for all people (and therefore contradicting CF's view of the Gospel) to post in the 'Christians only' forums?

The page also says this:

The central theme of the Bible is God's love for you and for all people. This love was revealed when Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came into the world as a human being, lived a sinless life, died on the cross, and rose from the dead. Because Christ died, your sins can be forgiven, and because He conquered death you can have eternal life. You can know for sure what will become of you after you die.
 
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janxharris

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No response? CF tells unbelievers about an offer of salvation but allows those that say Christ did not die for everyone to post on the Christians only forums? Allows them to post that God had every right to choose and exclude from a totally depraved mass of humanity?
 
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