Are we really 'Restoring' what other Christians aren't?

2PhiloVoid · Sep 27, 2017

Hello to all my Restorationist brethren,

- Christian Church / Church of Christ (instrumental)
- Christian Church / Church of Christ (non-instrumental)
- Disciples of Christ

So, ladies and gentlemen, what are we doing, if anything, that other Christians aren't? What sets us apart? If there's nothing specific, then what do we offer? Or are we just too small to make a difference?

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 27, 2017

Imo what the restorationists have to offer that is different from other churches is a closer look at the role of the church body in relationship to our High Priest. Having no creed but Christ as the focus narrows the road to think in terms of what everything means according to that focus.
Most churches think in terms of administration but that should never be the focus. That isn't what upholds, Jesus does. The mind shift that is offered is in clearly seeing the picture that the bible presents of Christ and the church seated in the heavenlies.

Perhaps it can be summed up in acquiring a taste for the new wine.

2PhiloVoid · Sep 28, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
Imo what the restorationists have to offer that is different from other churches is a closer look at the role of the church body in relationship to our High Priest. Having no creed but Christ as the focus narrows the road to think in terms of what everything means according to that focus.
Most churches think in terms of administration but that should never be the focus. That isn't what upholds, Jesus does. The mind shift that is offered is in clearly seeing the picture that the bible presents of Christ and the church seated in the heavenlies.

Perhaps it can be summed up in acquiring a taste for the new wine.

Hi Cassia,

Thanks for the assist, Sis!

From the lack of overwhelming and immediate responses, I'm guessing that our group is still to be considered as fairly small in comparison with our brethren in other denominations. Oh well. So be it.

That is a good point you've brought up about how our theological focal point is the Bible and not the Creeds. However, I've always liked to study the Creeds, and I do find them useful in understanding the historical backdrop and development of the overall, Historic Church.

Interestingly enough, there is one criticism that has been leveled at us for saying that our focus is on "the Bible only." Critics seem to think that this distinction we make in ourselves also has us then seeing ourselves in contrast to other Christian brethen, and this seems to militate against our intention to promote the Restoration of the Unity of the Historic Church. Or does it?

What do you think?

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Jane_Doe · Sep 28, 2017

Answering your questions from the other thread. Obviously I'm answering from an LDS perspective. Let me know if I missed the points you're trying to hit--

2PhiloVoid said:
So, ladies and gentlemen, what are we doing, if anything, that other Christians aren't? What sets us apart? If there's nothing specific, then what do we offer? Or are we just too small to make a difference?

From the LDS perspective, God's authority of apostles/prophets is key for His Church-- obviously with Him as the ultimate Head. His church ran this way before Christ, doing Christ, after Christ. A critical part of the Restoration was restoring this.

2PhiloVoid said:
That is a good point you've brought up about how our theological focal point is the Bible and not the Creeds.

LDS stress that Truth comes from God. Scripture/ His prophets/ His Spirit are to lead us, not Creeds. Hence, LDS do not accept the Creeds as authoritative.

2PhiloVoid said:
Interestingly enough, there is one criticism that has been leveled at us for saying that our focus is on "the Bible only." Critics seem to think that this distinction we make in ourselves also has us then seeing ourselves in contrast to other Christian brethen, and this seems to militate against our intention to promote the Restoration of the Unity of the Historic Church. Or does it? What do you think?

The Bible declares a "Christian" to be a disciple of Christ. LDS (myself included) gladly celebrate other people's (Christians) relationship with Christ. That is not to say that our beliefs are identical-- no one is doing that. But rather it is about acknowledging people's very real relationship with Christ.

2PhiloVoid · Sep 28, 2017

Jane_Doe said:
Answering your questions from the other thread. Obviously I'm answering from an LDS perspective. Let me know if I missed the points you're trying to hit--

From the LDS perspective, God's authority of apostles/prophets is key for His Church-- obviously with Him as the ultimate Head. His church ran this way before Christ, doing Christ, after Christ. A critical part of the Restoration was restoring this.

LDS stress that Truth comes from God. Scripture/ His prophets/ His Spirit are to lead us, not Creeds. Hence, LDS do not accept the Creeds as authoritative.

The Bible declares a "Christian" to be a disciple of Christ. LDS (myself included) gladly celebrate other people's (Christians) relationship with Christ. That is not to say that our beliefs are identical-- no one is doing that. But rather it is about acknowledging people's very real relationship with Christ.

Well, it sounds like on just these 3 points alone which you've nicely described, your church has some similar framework to that of mine. Good comments, Jane! Thanks for that.

You might also like to know that your church and my church both were originally founded in the U.S., unlike many others.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 28, 2017

2PhiloVoid said:
Hi Cassia,

Thanks for the assist, Sis!

From the lack of overwhelming and immediate responses, I'm guessing that our group is still to be considered as fairly small in comparison with our brethren in other denominations. Oh well. So be it.

That is a good point you've brought up about how our theological focal point is the Bible and not the Creeds. However, I've always liked to study the Creeds, and I do find them useful in understanding the historical backdrop and development of the overall, Historic Church.

Interestingly enough, there is one criticism that has been leveled at us for saying that our focus is on "the Bible only." Critics seem to think that this distinction we make in ourselves also has us then seeing ourselves in contrast to other Christian brethen, and this seems to militate against our intention to promote the Restoration of the Unity of the Historic Church. Or does it? What do you think?

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

I've studied the early church fathers also and I'm familiar with the creeds. I don't agree that their (the ECF) writings belong to only certain denominations and not to others because all of Christianity share the same beginnings. Taking into account the first writings about what has been given to understand of biblical writings is a good study but I don't believe that is the end all of what the Holy Spirit has to give the church. That can be comparable to the advancement of the Catholic faith into Mariology in much later years. However what lead I have had has been away from that so I really take it all with a grain of salt and give more credence to the teachings of the Puritans that had nothing to gain but freedom from leaving the Roman and England church behind.

2PhiloVoid · Sep 28, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
I've studied the early church fathers also and I'm familiar with the creeds. I don't agree that their (the ECF) writings belong to only certain denominations and not to others because all of Christianity share the same beginnings.

Excellent point.

Taking into account the first writings about what has been given to understand of biblical writings is a good study but I don't believe that is the end all of what the Holy Spirit has to give the church. That can be comparable to the advancement of the Catholic faith into Mariology in much later years. However what lead I have had has been away from that so I really take it all with a grain of salt and give more credence to the teachings of the Puritans that had nothing to gain but freedom from leaving the Roman and England church behind.

I'd say we have a similar approach. My focus is primarily on the New Testament authors over and above anyone who came after them. Of course, it's not surprising if we both belong to the same movement and have been influenced in that direction by our respective church leaders.

However, I do have to say that I've had problems in valuing the Puritans and the Separatists as somehow ideal over other denominational movements. In fact, the history of Christianity as it existed in the 13 colonies before unification wasn't always a pretty sight, as I'm sure you already know. Conflicts between Christians in the U.S. kind of makes the little squabbles among the apostles look like Kindergarten Capers. Of course, then there were all those religious wars in Europe between Catholics and Protestants that were definitely even nastier. So, yeah, I guess I'll cozy on back into my little Restorationist Retreat, holding my hands out to all of my brethren from all denominations. It's so much nicer to have peace rather than strife.

But, what part of the Puritan life do you like to reflect upon the most, Cassia? [Great comments, by the way! And I love that cat .gif or yours! Cracks me up!]

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 28, 2017

2PhiloVoid said:
Excellent point.

I'd say we have a similar approach. My focus is primarily on the New Testament authors over and above anyone who came after them. Of course, it's not surprising if we both belong to the same movement and have been influenced in that direction by our respective church leaders.

My focus has been on the correlation of Christ between the old and new testaments so my interests range all over the board. I love that I'm friends with so many from so many different denominations on cf. I just find that the puritans had the basic for a few moments in time before they too branched out. That's just my personal opinion ...

However, I do have to say that I've had problems in valuing the Puritans and the Separatists as somehow ideal over other denominational movements. In fact, the history of Christianity as it existed in the 13 colonies before unification wasn't always a pretty sight, as I'm sure you already know. Conflicts between Christians in the U.S. kind of makes the little squabbles among the apostles look like Kindergarten Capers. Of course, then there were all those religious wars in Europe between Catholics and Protestants that were definitely even nastier. So, yeah, I guess I'll cozy on back into my little Restorationist Retreat, holding my hands out to all of my brethren from all denominations. It's so much nicer to have peace rather than strife.

But, what part of the Puritan life do you like to reflect upon the most, Cassia? [Great comments, by the way! And I love that cat .gif or yours! Cracks me up!]

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Subdood · Feb 14, 2018

One thing I've noticed that tends to set us apart - and understand, I'm being very general here - is our devotion to the Word, to personal bible study. In my experience with Christians from many other denominations, I find there are comparatively few who have actually read the bible, let alone who do so on a regular basis. Most rely on their preachers/pastors/leaders to do their bible study and depend on those people to impart what they've learned to them. Most will unequivocally assert the "sinner's prayer" is [somewhere] in the bible but have no idea where - let alone that it is, in fact, NOT in the bible.

I've run into many whose knowledge of the Word, of even basic doctrines is pathetically limited. Most can recite John 3:16 by heart, but many of those can't find John in the New Testament.

The level of biblical illiteracy among professing Christians these days is genuinely alarming - and while we are not perfect in our own biblical literacy, I do appreciate how strong an emphasis it has always been - because I believe EVERY Christian should be devoted to God's Word.

notreligus · Feb 15, 2018

The Restoration Movement, or at least the one represented by this forum, do have a published creed. It is published in Alexander Campbell's book called The Christian System. Campbell also edited and published a translation of the New Testament called The Living Oracles. Campbell published the Christian Baptist newsletter for about sixteen, a newsletter which promoted his particular views while he was ministering as a Baptist. After that he published the monthly newsletter called The Millennial Harbinger which summarized his views after the Disciples of Christ group was formed. Campbell was Post-Millennial and believed that his new restoration doctrine would win the majority of the world to Christ and this would bring about Christ's return to rule over the kingdom which the church had prepared for Him. Campbell had to back down on this when the Civil War ensued and proved his prediction of no more wars to be a wrong one.

Google searches can often result in finding Portable Document Files (PDF) containing these books and publications I have mentioned.

http://wwjdtoday.com/ChurchDocs/LivingOracles_updated_1203230700_Word.pdf

112358 · Mar 8, 2018

notreligus said:
The Restoration Movement, or at least the one represented by this forum, do have a published creed. It is published in Alexander Campbell's book called The Christian System. Campbell also edited and published a translation of the New Testament called The Living Oracles. Campbell published the Christian Baptist newsletter for about sixteen, a newsletter which promoted his particular views while he was ministering as a Baptist. After that he published the monthly newsletter called The Millennial Harbinger which summarized his views after the Disciples of Christ group was formed. Campbell was Post-Millennial and believed that his new restoration doctrine would win the majority of the world to Christ and this would bring about Christ's return to rule over the kingdom which the church had prepared for Him. Campbell had to back down on this when the Civil War ensued and proved his prediction of no more wars to be a wrong one.

Google searches can often result in finding Portable Document Files (PDF) containing these books and publications I have mentioned.

http://wwjdtoday.com/ChurchDocs/LivingOracles_updated_1203230700_Word.pdf

This an oft used argument articulated by those who misunderstand the concept of restoration and assume (incorrectly) that Campbell is the "founder" of the Churches of Christ. It is an attempt to label them as "just another denomination".

If any of Campbell's publications indeed represent a "creed" apart from the Bible, then those publications or that "creed" are by definition not aligned with the concept of restoration.

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Are we really 'Restoring' what other Christians aren't?

2PhiloVoid

Get my point, Shelob??

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Citizen of the Kingdom

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2PhiloVoid

Get my point, Shelob??

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Jane_Doe

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2PhiloVoid

Get my point, Shelob??

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Citizen of the Kingdom

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2PhiloVoid

Get my point, Shelob??

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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Subdood

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notreligus

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112358

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