Who Is Jesus?

NoFooU2

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There are those, like me, who believe Jesus is God in flesh. Others believe he is the Son of God, a separate being.

This scripture would seem to suggest that I am right:

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV

However, I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.

What do you think?
 
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NoFooU2

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Everyone has the own interpretation of the biblical scriptures, period. No one can tell you whether God is this way or God is that way. What it boils down to is your individual relationship. There are 41,000 different types of Christianity alone that all claim to be the one true faith. It is good to listen to your pastor, but it is always recommended to doube check his message and to read the very message/scripture for yourself because even your pastor is human.
About The Christ (the savior) God is beyond our understanding, we can not even comprehend on the level of concousness that God operates on. And when the bible speaks of Jesus as all God and all flesh that is just it. Simply think of God as an egg, there are three main parts of the egg. The shell, the yellow yok and the white. All is the egg but all are separate parts. Father, son, and holy ghost. Hope this helps! Read between the lines and look deeper into each message, Much love to you and never stop questioning.
 
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PreacherMan2

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Maybe, but I would argue that when he prayed to the Father, he did it for our benefit, not his - he was showing us what to do.

John 12:30 30 Jesus answered and said, "This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake.
 
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Roseonathorn

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When the whole world walks out on You then the spirit of Jesus enters and can lift Your spirit in times of trouble. We have never been promiced an easy life, quite the opposite, but we have been told to be strong and courageous. I believe Jesus can help with that. See trinity works through the holy spirit and Jesus knows all our hardships because He has been human and The holy spirit can guide us through our spirit if we learn to listen. If we do not know what to do we should do something beneficial and sound and something we would want others to do to us in a similar situation if roles were reversed but still being fair.
 
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Roseonathorn

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Everyone has the own interpretation of the biblical scriptures, period. No one can tell you whether God is this way or God is that way. What it boils down to is your individual relationship. There are 41,000 different types of Christianity alone that all claim to be the one true faith. It is good to listen to your pastor, but it is always recommended to doube check his message and to read the very message/scripture for yourself because even your pastor is human.
About The Christ (the savior) God is beyond our understanding, we can not even comprehend on the level of concousness that God operates on. And when the bible speaks of Jesus as all God and all flesh that is just it. Simply think of God as an egg, there are three main parts of the egg. The shell, the yellow yok and the white. All is the egg but all are separate parts. Father, son, and holy ghost. Hope this helps! Read between the lines and look deeper into each message, Much love to you and never stop questioning.

Thank You. Yeeesss... I am thinking... The Father is having a higher cholesterole than the son so He must then be the yellow part... the high cholesterol part...naaa but that does not make sence since the yellow part becomes a chicken...and Fathers do not chicken out toward their sons. So the son is the Yellow part, the Father the shell because He is strong and the white is the spirit. The spirit is the connection between the yellow and the shell, the Father and the son. Without the white the Yellow would not grow. If One do not feed or water the hen and cockerels for a day they eat their eggs and then they do not get holy spiritfilled and saved by grace that very day. Hen have always had a special gift of belonging to a garden.
 
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Dr Bruce Atkinson

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There are those, like me, who believe Jesus is God in flesh. Others believe he is the Son of God, a separate being.

This scripture would seem to suggest that I am right:

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV

However, I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.

What do you think?

What I think may not be important, but following the New Testament scriptures, here is what the early Church thought and put into "concrete" in 325 AD at the Council of Nicea-- hence, the Nicene Creed (which is accepted by almost all Christian denominations and churches with only a few minor variations-- and those differences are not about the Trinitarian nature of God):.

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son,] who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy [universal] and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.


One God, in three Persons. It is a mystery and a true paradox. Do not expect to fully understand it; simply accept it.

Although our less than three pounds of brain cannot fully conceive it, it is provable in the scriptures-- as many have shown here.

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,'' declares the Lord. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish,so that it yields seed for the sower and bread to the eater, so shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it will not return to Me empty, but will accomplish what I desire, and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.”

(Isaiah 55:8-11, NIV)




 
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Shea Rodriguez

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Maybe, but I would argue that when he prayed to the Father, he did it for our benefit, not his - he was showing us what to do.
Unless you understand the godhead as set up by the Eternal Father himself, you will never understand how there is a father AND a son.

DEUTERONOMY 32:7 Remember the days of old; consider the years of many generations; ask your father, and he will show you, your elders, and they will tell you. 8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when He divided mankind, He fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. 9 But the LORD's portion is His people, Jacob His allotted heritage. (ESV)

2 KINGS 17:15 They [the Israelites] rejected His statutes and His covenant which He made with their fathers and His warnings with which He warned them. And they followed vanity and became vain, and went after the nations which surrounded them, concerning which the LORD had commanded them not to do like them. 16 They forsook all the commandments of the LORD their God and made for themselves molten images, even two calves, and made an Asherah and worshiped all the host of heaven and served Baal. (NASU)

Godhead - Here a little, there a little - Index God is One - Here a little, there a little - Godhead
Gods of the Nations - Here a little, there a little - Spirit Realm

This scripture should remove any doubt in a Christian's mind that there is only one Ancient of Days and one Son of Man. Christ was the god of Israel in most of the Old Testament references. Preincarnate Christ/Messiah was the one who spoke personally with the ancient fathers. He was one of the angelic beings who presented to Abraham after his circumcision. For no man has spoken to the Eternal Father, nor heard Him.

DANIEL 7:13 "I was watching in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before Him. 14 Then to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed. (NKJV)
 
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stealthsaint

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There are those, like me, who believe Jesus is God in flesh. Others believe he is the Son of God, a separate being.

This scripture would seem to suggest that I am right:

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV

However, I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.

What do you think?
I attempt to Reduce confusion with focUS on and after the cross and receiving Lord's Spirit to prepare sons. FocUSing on US as sons of God as being those led of Holy Spirit OUR INHERITANCE. JesUS was born a child and raised up to Sonship "this is My ONLY begotten Son. . . " ISAIAH 9:6,7 prophesies to His reality as the fullness of God
Is 9:6 For a child is born to us, / A Son is given to us; / And the government / Is upon His shoulder; / And His name will be called / Wonderful Counselor, / Mighty God, / Eternal Father, / Prince of Peace.
Is 9:7 To the increase of His government / And to His peace there is no end, / Upon the throne of David / And over His kingdom, / To establish it / And to uphold it / In justice and righteousness / From now to eternity. / The zeal of Jehovah of hosts / Will accomplish this.
Given to US = Spirit of Christ JesUS Head of KINGdom or government = a BODY LISTENING to HEAD. HEAD referes to Spiritual COUNLSELOR, as MIGHTY GOD, ETERNAL FATHER, OUR PEACE (Our inheritance). Becomes OUR REALITY when we trust ONLY IN HIM as SOURCE OF ALL THINGS. "John 7 That they would be one as We are One" <> <> IT is OUR (as one) Government we are building until OUR arrival having perfected US saints 2 through OUR work of ministry interdependantly acknowledging each gift building up of OUR BODY of Christ,
Ep 4:13 Until we all arrive at the oneness of the FAITH/AUTHORITY IN full knowledge OUR SONSHIP, a full-grown man from ALPHA to OMEGA, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
OUR IDENTITY ESTABLISHED THROUGH OUR INHERITANCE:
Colossians 2:6 As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him,
7 Having been rooted and being built up in Him, and being established in the faith even as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. 8 Beware that no one carries you off as spoil through his philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, AND NOT according Christ; <> <> being established in the faith = working out our salvation regaarding KINGdom positioning or rewards etc?
Co 2:9 For in HIM/US dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, (A body must have a head)
Co 2:10 WE HAVE have been made full in Him, who is the Head of all rule and authority.

IN OTHER WORDS: The HARVEST is OUR FULLNESS JesUS as child is born APLPHA <> <> fullness of Son JesUS Christ as "true God and ETERNAL LIFE is OMEGA
Jn 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

JesUS never tried to balance KINGDOM with world! A world which is distraction from the simplicity and purity of Christ JesUS. A world full of wrong KINGdom philosophy , empty deceit, giving us pride of acquiring money, a false sense of security, a tradition of men, MUST be a provider deveoped as a false sense of security as a subtle "LOVE of MONEY" at an early age, raising fear of future provision. Rather than seeking KINGDOM and RIGHTEOUSNESS that will rise up from within IF WE have SINGLE EYE FOCUS ON LORD SPIRIT WITHIN AND OPEN OUR EARS TO HEAR HIM.
 
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dreadnought

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Unless you understand the godhead as set up by the Eternal Father himself, you will never understand how there is a father AND a son.

DEUTERONOMY 32:7 Remember the days of old; consider the years of many generations; ask your father, and he will show you, your elders, and they will tell you. 8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when He divided mankind, He fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. 9 But the LORD's portion is His people, Jacob His allotted heritage. (ESV)

2 KINGS 17:15 They [the Israelites] rejected His statutes and His covenant which He made with their fathers and His warnings with which He warned them. And they followed vanity and became vain, and went after the nations which surrounded them, concerning which the LORD had commanded them not to do like them. 16 They forsook all the commandments of the LORD their God and made for themselves molten images, even two calves, and made an Asherah and worshiped all the host of heaven and served Baal. (NASU)

Godhead - Here a little, there a little - Index God is One - Here a little, there a little - Godhead
Gods of the Nations - Here a little, there a little - Spirit Realm

This scripture should remove any doubt in a Christian's mind that there is only one Ancient of Days and one Son of Man. Christ was the god of Israel in most of the Old Testament references. Preincarnate Christ/Messiah was the one who spoke personally with the ancient fathers. He was one of the angelic beings who presented to Abraham after his circumcision. For no man has spoken to the Eternal Father, nor heard Him.

DANIEL 7:13 "I was watching in the night visions, and behold, one like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before Him. 14 Then to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed. (NKJV)
However you look at it, I (try to) walk with the one God.
 
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Dr Bruce Atkinson

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There are those, like me, who believe Jesus is God in flesh. Others believe he is the Son of God, a separate being.

This scripture would seem to suggest that I am right:

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV

However, I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.

What do you think?

Colossians 1:15-20
[Jesus Christ] "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross."

This is clear enough for me. And the Nicene Creed underlines the divine and spiritual unity of Father and Son. Jesus is the second Person of the Triune God, "the Word of God made flesh."

J.I. Packer: "Jesus, who prayed to his Father and taught his disciples to do the same, convinced them that he was personally divine, and belief in his divinity and in the rightness of offering him worship and prayer is basic to New Testament faith (John 20:28-31; cf. 1:18; Acts 7:59; Rom. 9:5; 10:9-13; 2 Cor. 12:7-9; Phil. 2:5-6; Col. 1:15-17; 2:9; Heb. 1:1-12; 1 Pet. 3:15). Jesus promised to send another Paraclete (he himself having been the first one), and Paraclete signifies a many-sided personal ministry as counselor, advocate, helper, comforter, ally, supporter (John 14:16-17, 26; 15:26-27; 16:7-15). This other Paraclete, who came at Pentecost to fulfill this promised ministry, was the Holy Spirit, recognized from the start as a third divine person: to lie to him, said Peter not long after Pentecost, is to lie to God (Acts 5:3-4).

So Christ prescribed baptism “in the name (singular: one God, one name) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”—the three persons who are the one God to whom Christians commit themselves (Matt. 28:19). So we meet the three persons in the account of Jesus’ own baptism: the Father acknowledged the Son, and the Spirit showed his presence in the Son’s life and ministry (Mark 1:9-11). So we read the trinitarian blessing of 2 Corinthians 13:14, and the prayer for grace and peace from the Father, the Spirit, and Jesus Christ in Revelation 1:4-5 (would John have put the Spirit between the Father and the Son if he had not regarded the Spirit as divine in the same sense as they are?). These are some of the more striking examples of the trinitarian outlook and emphasis of the New Testament. Though the technical language of historic trinitarianism is not found there, trinitarian faith and thinking are present throughout its pages, and in that sense the Trinity must be acknowledged as a biblical doctrine: an eternal truth about God which, though never explicit in the Old Testament, is plain and clear in the New."
 
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Baby Cottontail

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One way to approach this is a reading of Psalm 2. You have a dialogue going on between the trinity.
Awesome. Thank you. Yes, that is a nice passage to look at. It's used in Hebrews to show this as well :)
 
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sparow

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There are those, like me, who believe Jesus is God in flesh. Others believe he is the Son of God, a separate being.

This scripture would seem to suggest that I am right:

"Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV

However, I suspect there is biblical evidence that I am wrong.

What do you think?

Unless one is able to define God then the question is difficult; but Jesus is given all authority so when Jesus speaks it is God speaking; Jesus is the promised Messiah, the promised King of the promised kingdom, which is near or coming.

Everything is disputed and abstract; instead of trying to resolve the unknown it is more productive to know if Jesus is the King of the kingdom, is the kingdom coming, who will be the subjects of the kingdom and what is the covenant that determines all this.
 
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Baby Cottontail

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I have a real quick question, and I will probably post this same question in several threads that I follow & participate in, in the hopes that someone will be able to answer this.

Recently, within the past couple of days, several people have suggested in these threads on the subject of the trinity, that the trinity is off limits for discussing on this website. When I was reading through the rules for each forum, that is not the impression that I got. My understanding was that it was just non-trinitarians that cannot discuss their views against the Trinity. Not that the entire subject was completely off limits for everyone to discuss.

Have I overlooked something?

I have not heard from any mods on this, so I assumed that none of these threads were breaking site policy, nor were any of my posts in defense of the trinity.

The rules regarding discussing the trinity seem to be confusing. Could someone please clarify (preferably a mod). Are Trinitarian Christians allowed to discuss it, start threads about it, defend it when someone misunderstands the doctrine, defend it when someone tries to speak against it, etc?

Are we allowed to discuss the doctrine in private messages through the "conversations" system?

I do want to respect the rules, so if it isn't allowed, I will cease participation on these threads. If it is a completely forbidden topic, then I probably will leave this website, as I think it is an important doctrine for Christians to be able to discuss, and to help one another understand it better. It is considered one of the essential doctrines to Christian orthodoxy.

Thank you.
 
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Righttruth

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What I think may not be important, but following the New Testament scriptures, here is what the early Church thought and put into "concrete" in 325 AD at the Council of Nicea-- hence, the Nicene Creed (which is accepted by almost all Christian denominations and churches with only a few minor variations-- and those differences are not about the Trinitarian nature of God):.

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son,] who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy [universal] and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.


One God, in three Persons. It is a mystery and a true paradox. Do not expect to fully understand it; simply accept it.

Although our less than three pounds of brain cannot fully conceive it, it is provable in the scriptures-- as many have shown here.

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,'' declares the Lord. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish,so that it yields seed for the sower and bread to the eater, so shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it will not return to Me empty, but will accomplish what I desire, and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.”

(Isaiah 55:8-11, NIV)




I believe in Apostles Creed, not Nicene Creed which was instigated by pagan emperor Constantine. Son cannot become God the Father.
 
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Baby Cottontail

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I believe in Apostles Creed, not Nicene Creed which was instigated by pagan emperor Constantine. Son cannot become God the Father.
Until I hear an answer to my previous question, I am going to assume that trinitarians are allowed to discuss and defend the doctrine....so....

Neither the Apostles Creed nor the Nicene say that the Son became the Father. The Son didn't become the Father, as the two are clearly different Persons according to the Gospels.

Jesus prayed to the Father. The Father spoke from heaven to and about Jesus. Jesus referred to the Father as another Persons by the way that He talked about the Father.

Yet, Jesus and the Father are the very same God.
 
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wilts43

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Everyone has the own interpretation of the biblical scriptures, period. No one can tell you whether God is this way or God is that way. What it boils down to is your individual relationship. There are 41,000 different types of Christianity alone that all claim to be the one true faith. It is good to listen to your pastor, but it is always recommended to doube check his message and to read the very message/scripture for yourself because even your pastor is human.
....

I agree a personal relationship with God is important.

Apart from that I have to disagree with your view as unbiblical & unhistorical.
Jesus work/legacy was His Church not a book.
And His Church did not compile its library (Bible) until about 350 years into its history.

But if you look at the letters, Gospels & Acts that his Church added to scripture, there is no concept at all of everyone reading a bible (that wouldn't exist for centuries) and deciding what it meant for themselves.
Just the opposite! There is an obsession with unity, including unity in faith, under clear and strong Apostolic Authority. And there is absolute intolerance of any deviation from this.

The 41,000 denominations you refer to spring entirely from the 16th Century Protestant Reformation, that invented the man-made tradition of sola scriptura & rejected the Catholic, Apostolic Church.

Until the 16th Century there was ONE faith, constantly defined by Apostolic Authority in their successor bishops, & in the Petrine ministry of The papacy . Unfortunately since 1034 there was schism between East & West but (having true Apostolic succession) both parts of the church held constantly to the same faith.
There is still only one Apostolic, Historic, faith to this day, and the large majority of Christians adhere to either part, East-or-West.

Of your 41,000 denominations 40,998 are Protestant.
This is the inevitable consequence of the new doctrine of Bible(& me)-Alone rejecting the authority of the Apostolic church to interpret scripture.
And ideas about individual interpretations or preferences, personalised christianity, and indifferentism, are simply a neccessary expedient to avoid the stark, embarrassing, unworkability of "Me-&-my-bible"......that led to the 41,000!

Jesus prayed for visible unity of faith in John "so that the world will know".
He promised to "lead His apostles into all truth" and to "be with you until the end of time" (Therefore to be with His Apostolic Successor-bishops)

That was smashed to smithereens by the Protestant rebellion of the ego; where Me-&-my-bible" decides my individual truth rejecting the authority of The Apostles & their successors. He said He would "not leave us orphans" but if we run out of the Apostolic Catholic Church we make ourselves orphans, with only our own egos to interpret scripture. This is plainly what happened since 16th Century of Christianity.

This attitude of "Me-&-my-bible" or "Me-&-Jesus" is totally unbiblcal. God always saved "A People".
His Church is, as prophecied, a reconstituted Davidic Kingdom-of-God which He would rule forever "with a rod of iron" (Luke 1:33 &Rev 2:27). He appoints a Davidic Prime Minister (cf Matt 16:18 & Is 22:20-23)
He has a Davidic-Mother-Queen "Gebirah" (See Cana & Rev 11:19....following)

Nowhere is God's Kingdom/Church portayed as a democracy..... of individual thoughts & feelings, and where there is no objective truth.
Nowhere is everybody portayed as infallible (or just as right) ......Everybody that is, except Peter's successor & the Apostolic bishop-successors!!!
This is just pure modern-Americanism-individualism, not Christianity.
 
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Righttruth

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Until I hear an answer to my previous question, I am going to assume that trinitarians are allowed to discuss and defend the doctrine....so....

Neither the Apostles Creed nor the Nicene say that the Son became the Father. The Son didn't become the Father, as the two are clearly different Persons according to the Gospels.

Jesus prayed to the Father. The Father spoke from heaven to and about Jesus. Jesus referred to the Father as another Persons by the way that He talked about the Father.

Yet, Jesus and the Father are the very same God.

I consider Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the manifestations of God the Father.

This is objectionable of the Nicene Creed:
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
 
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JLB777

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In my Bible, the Revised Standard Version, he calls himself, “I AM WHO I AM” and “I AM.” He is also called LORD. I’ve heard him called Yahweh and Jehovah. Sometimes I call him the God of Abraham. In the original text, perhaps he is named YHVH - that's what Baby Cottontail has been calling him.


Do you understand that these all refer to the Lord Jesus Christ.

The name of the Lord has been revealed to us.

The Name above all names.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:56-59




JLB
 
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