LDS For Not Following Joseph Smith?

dzheremi

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Can you rebuke Peter, the apostle of Jesus Christ, and his teachings, and still enter heaven?

I realize that for Mormons Joseph Smith is in some sense a prophet akin to the apostles, but that doesn't really tell Christians why they should believe or follow him. Other non-Christian religions say the same about their own prophets, like Islam, and yet I will presume that you reject them. So why should we follow Joseph Smith? Because you say he received a revelation from God? So did Montanus, Muhammad, and every other person claiming prophethood after the apostles.

There's no discernment in simply claiming he is akin to Peter when that is not proven by anything. "He's like Peter to Mormons" is not an argument to be made before non-Mormons who are not already convinced of his supposed prophethood.

And you can say heaven, it is just divided into 3 kingdoms or glories, the Celestial glory, the Terrestrial glory, and the Telestial glory. Where you end up depends on your righteousness and as the scriptures say we will be judged according to your works.
If your works are Celestial type of works you will be in the Celestial glory of heaven.
If your works are of a Terrestrial type of works you will be in the Terrestrial glory.
If your works are of a Telestial type of works you will be in the Telestial glory.

Is anyone else getting a strong Gnostic vibe from this? They too loved big complicated schema concerning the arrangement of the heavens, and had various divisions of it.

In ancient conceptions of the arrangement of the universe, there are perhaps echoes of this kind of thinking, as in what we know in English as the firmament (which is talked about in some Coptic hymns, so it's not like the idea is itself inherently Gnostic or otherwise unacceptable; outdated in a scientific sense, sure, but we're talking about hymns and other writings that are many centuries old), but that was about the physical arrangement of space, not a division of heaven itself into this or that quadrant based on what you do or how you are. That's like some weird Dante-esque idea, but applied to heaven instead of hell (and I'm pretty sure Dante didn't mean it literally, and didn't build a system out of it that was then incorporated into his religion, as Mormonism has).
 
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BigDaddy4

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I thought it was a perfect analogy.

How do you measure when a person has done 'more', and is that 'more' enough
to get you into the highest kingdom of God? This is what you asked.

The Savior tells us that our righteousness has to be 'more' than the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. So you could ask Jesus the same question. How do you measure when a person has done 'more' righteousness than the scribes and the Pharisees, and is my righteousness enough now to get me into the KOH?

So the analogy is a good one, but how do you measure your righteousness, to see if it is 'more' than the scribes and Pharisees? And the answer is, only Jesus can tell if you are righteous enough to come into his kingdom, so it is going to be up to Jesus. But you better be 'more' righteous than the scribes and the Pharisees, or you will be looking from the outside in.
Then you don't understand the context of the Scripture you quoted, nor the question asked.

By my count, there are 6 places in lds theology that one can end up:

Outer Darkness
Terrestial Kingdom
Telestial Kingdom
One of 3 degrees of glory within the Celestial Kingdom

How much "more" righteousness does it take to get from one level to the next? How do you know if you have or have not done enough "more"?
 
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Peter1000

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Phoebe Ann,

He that believeth on him is not condemned:


He that believeth on him is not condemned, but he that believeth on him and does not produce fruit for the KOH will not be in the highest KOG.

shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

You shall not be condemned, but you will pass from death unto life, but if on earth you produce little or no fruit for the KOH, you will not be in the highest KOG.

Our own righteousness earns nothing! We have nothing to offer Him that He didn't give us.

Read the following scripture if you feel our righteousness is not important:
Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Righteousness is what gets you in. Belief is the starting point, not the ending point. It is not automatic.

1 Corinthians 15
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

This is true, the more abundantly you work, the more grace Jesus offers you, and when you get to Paul's level of good works, you humbly admit that it is not you, but the grace of God which is with you.

10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Yes unprofitable servants, but we have done our duty and as we grow in keeping the commandments, our righteousness will be added upon by the grace of God, and we will be allowed to enter into the KOG.

We serve Him because we love Him! We don't serve Him to gain a greater reward than those other Christians.

That is right, we serve Him because we love Him and we love our fellow men.
The result of this love and service, however, is that by the grace of God, will allow us to be in the highest kingdom in the KOG.

1 John 4
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

This is true.

1 John 4
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Their is no automatic pass into the KOG. Our righteousness still must exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees in order to get in.
 
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Peter1000

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Then you don't understand the context of the Scripture you quoted, nor the question asked.

By my count, there are 6 places in lds theology that one can end up:

Outer Darkness
Terrestial Kingdom
Telestial Kingdom
One of 3 degrees of glory within the Celestial Kingdom

How much "more" righteousness does it take to get from one level to the next? How do you know if you have or have not done enough "more"?
Like I said, only a God can judge righteously who is worthy of which kingdom.

We are all different, there is no cookie-cutter pattern that fits all. Only a God can judge where a person deserves to be.
 
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Peter1000

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I realize that for Mormons Joseph Smith is in some sense a prophet akin to the apostles, but that doesn't really tell Christians why they should believe or follow him. Other non-Christian religions say the same about their own prophets, like Islam, and yet I will presume that you reject them. So why should we follow Joseph Smith? Because you say he received a revelation from God? So did Montanus, Muhammad, and every other person claiming prophethood after the apostles.

There's no discernment in simply claiming he is akin to Peter when that is not proven by anything. "He's like Peter to Mormons" is not an argument to be made before non-Mormons who are not already convinced of his supposed prophethood.



Is anyone else getting a strong Gnostic vibe from this? They too loved big complicated schema concerning the arrangement of the heavens, and had various divisions of it.

In ancient conceptions of the arrangement of the universe, there are perhaps echoes of this kind of thinking, as in what we know in English as the firmament (which is talked about in some Coptic hymns, so it's not like the idea is itself inherently Gnostic or otherwise unacceptable; outdated in a scientific sense, sure, but we're talking about hymns and other writings that are many centuries old), but that was about the physical arrangement of space, not a division of heaven itself into this or that quadrant based on what you do or how you are. That's like some weird Dante-esque idea, but applied to heaven instead of hell (and I'm pretty sure Dante didn't mean it literally, and didn't build a system out of it that was then incorporated into his religion, as Mormonism has).
I am only giving you the Mormon prospective. So for us, ignoring JS would be similar to you ignoring Peter, the apostle of Jesus, and what he taught.

Even as a young person, when I read the 76th section of the D&C, it made sense to me that God cannot limit His judgement to just good and bad. The good go to heaven, and the bad go to hell. There are too many variations of good and too many variations of bad.

For instance if you are 51% to 100% good, you go to heaven. And if you are 49% to 1% good you go to hell.
Think about what heaven will be like. You have everyone from being 51% good to 100% good. Are those that are 51% good going to be comfortable around those that are 100% good? The answer is no. And that is the reason for the many mansions concept. It is not a cookie-cutter deal, 1 size fits all.
In hell, is it fair to put those who were 49% good with those that are 1% good? Are those that are 49% good going to be comfortable with those that are 1% good? No again.

God will be the judge and He will have the ability to see into our hearts and will place us where we will be comfortable for eternity. Some will be close to Him, some will be a short distance away from Him, some will be a long distance away from Him. It depends on your righteousness and your good works, as we will be judged according to our works. The separation into kingdoms will be along those lines.
 
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Peter1000

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From my experience in Mormonism and now knowing Jesus Christ alone as my Savior, the difference is as night and day. Mormonism is a burden of religious bondage. The biblical Jesus Christ is eternal freedom. He is enough.

Are we in bondage because we try to keep the commandments of God, given to us by the Savior?
Is the word 'commandment' a problem for you, because if it is, Jesus Christ alone will judge you if you keep his 'commandments' or not, and if you do not, you will be disappointed in your heavenly home.

Being saved is not an automatic thing once you have a moment of inspiration and you believe that Jesus is your Savior. That is the starting point, not the ending point. Keeping the commandments proves that you love Jesus, for he said:
John 14:21
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

We are not under bondage, we are under a covenant to keep the commandments of Jesus Christ.
 
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RisenInJesus

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Are we in bondage because we try to keep the commandments of God, given to us by the Savior?
Is the word 'commandment' a problem for you, because if it is, Jesus Christ alone will judge you if you keep his 'commandments' or not, and if you do not, you will be disappointed in your heavenly home.

Being saved is not an automatic thing once you have a moment of inspiration and you believe that Jesus is your Savior. That is the starting point, not the ending point. Keeping the commandments proves that you love Jesus, for he said:
John 14:21
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

We are not under bondage, we are under a covenant to keep the commandments of Jesus Christ.

At the time Jesus spoke about keeping the commandments in (John 14:21) which you quoted, He was speaking to the Jews who were still under the law...before the cross.

He also summed up the law by saying ...‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:37-40

And Paul further throughout his epistles showed that those in Christ live by the Spirit, not by keeping the law...

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

When someone is free in Christ and loving God with all their heart, soul, and mind and their neighbor as themselves they will by His Spirit be living according to the commandments without being under the law or in bondage to rule-keeping.

The Mormon church not only keeps people in bondage under the law instead of Christ, but also by adding their own list of LDS requirements to the backs of their members.
 
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Rescued One

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The Mormon church not only keeps people in bondage under the law instead of Christ, but also by adding their own list of LDS requirements to the backs of their members.

"The law" refers to Old Testament Law. Mormon teaching is that they are not under the Law of Moses but of Christ; their idea of the Law of Christ is "all the laws and ordinances of the Mormon Church."

Because I openly admit that I was a Mormon, Mormons are tempted to cast doubt on my honesty about what I experienced. I wasn't told a lot of things and when I found out about Institute and Seminary classes, those classes were for high school and college students. I was neither. I lived on my own, worked a full-time job and supported myself without any financial aid from my parents. *shrug* I couldn't afford a car so I paid for public transportation.
 
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RisenInJesus

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"The law" refers to Old Testament Law. Mormon teaching is that they are not under the Law of Moses but of Christ; their idea of the Law of Christ is "all the laws and ordinances of the Mormon Church."

Because I openly admit that I was a Mormon, Mormons are tempted to cast doubt on my honesty about what I experienced. I wasn't told a lot of things and when I found out about Institute and Seminary classes, those classes were for high school and college students. I was neither. I lived on my own, worked a full-time job and supported myself without any financial aid from my parents. *shrug* I couldn't afford a car so I paid for public transportation.
Thank you for sharing the information you have. The ordinances of the Mormon church are those which I am mainly referring to when I say they add extra-biblical burdens to members. I was also a Mormon, as was my husband. Thankfully, we were delivered and saved by the real Jesus, not only from Mormonism, but many other false spiritual ideas.
 
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fatboys

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Thank you for sharing the information you have. The ordinances of the Mormon church are those which I am mainly referring to when I say they add extra-biblical burdens to members. I was also a Mormon, as was my husband. Thankfully, we were delivered and saved by the real Jesus, not only from Mormonism, but many other false spiritual ideas.
You will be happier if you just follow what you believe and teach the truths of what you believe instead of being a critic. Anyone can be a critic. If I thought for a second that you had more truth than what I have I would follow right then. As it is you have settled for a less Jesus. Now I don't know why you and your husband left. Some people leave for the most simple things as being offended by another member to someone thinking what they believe is more complete than Mormonism. Usually people come here because they try to justify their leaving by being critical of the church. This somehow in their minds strengthens their position. If s person came here to teach their beliefs instead of just presenting what they feel is wrong with the church then this would be more valid approach. I have seen almost every critical statement by our critics. There are some that are good criticisms but most are just either a misconception or the person on purpose try's to twist the truth to fit their agenda. There are those that leave the church because they believe what has been misrepresented and don't care or are to lazy to learn the truth. I hope you did true research and not rely on what critics say is suppose to be the truth.
 
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RisenInJesus

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You will be happier if you just follow what you believe and teach the truths of what you believe instead of being a critic. Anyone can be a critic. If I thought for a second that you had more truth than what I have I would follow right then. As it is you have settled for a less Jesus. Now I don't know why you and your husband left. Some people leave for the most simple things as being offended by another member to someone thinking what they believe is more complete than Mormonism. Usually people come here because they try to justify their leaving by being critical of the church. This somehow in their minds strengthens their position. If s person came here to teach their beliefs instead of just presenting what they feel is wrong with the church then this would be more valid approach. I have seen almost every critical statement by our critics. There are some that are good criticisms but most are just either a misconception or the person on purpose try's to twist the truth to fit their agenda. There are those that leave the church because they believe what has been misrepresented and don't care or are to lazy to learn the truth. I hope you did true research and not rely on what critics say is suppose to be the truth.

It was going to the temple and seeing the occult/masonic rituals there which God used to begin our deliverance out of Mormonism into a true relationship with the real Jesus of the Bible and the only Savior. The Mormon church exalts itself in place of Jesus as the "true church" claiming that one can only reach the celestial kingdom by being a member of the LDS church and keeping their ordinances. This is contrary to the message of the Bible and a false gospel.

It is not about being critical, rather as the scriptures instruct to ... contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. Jude 1:4

Mormonism is a different gospel. Paul did not hesitate to speak out about false gospels. Christians are called to do no less and must stand for biblical truth.

But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it! 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
 
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dzheremi

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I am only giving you the Mormon prospective. So for us, ignoring JS would be similar to you ignoring Peter, the apostle of Jesus, and what he taught.

I know that, Peter. I'm just pointing out that this is not an argument itself -- it's stating a belief, without any backing as to why it is as it is (i.e., how and why is JS to be considered as we consider St. Peter?). Mormons may accept JS as a prophet akin to St. Peter, but nothing in simply stating that tells anyone why they should have to do the same. So it seems like you're taking your conclusion as though it should be obvious to everyone, even though it isn't. And since it isn't, things like the premise of the OP strike the non-Mormon as nonsensical at best.

Even as a young person, when I read the 76th section of the D&C, it made sense to me that God cannot limit His judgement to just good and bad. The good go to heaven, and the bad go to hell. There are too many variations of good and too many variations of bad.

For instance if you are 51% to 100% good, you go to heaven. And if you are 49% to 1% good you go to hell.
Think about what heaven will be like. You have everyone from being 51% good to 100% good. Are those that are 51% good going to be comfortable around those that are 100% good? The answer is no. And that is the reason for the many mansions concept. It is not a cookie-cutter deal, 1 size fits all.
In hell, is it fair to put those who were 49% good with those that are 1% good? Are those that are 49% good going to be comfortable with those that are 1% good? No again.

God will be the judge and He will have the ability to see into our hearts and will place us where we will be comfortable for eternity. Some will be close to Him, some will be a short distance away from Him, some will be a long distance away from Him. It depends on your righteousness and your good works, as we will be judged according to our works. The separation into kingdoms will be along those lines.

What is objectionable in all this is not the idea that there is a difference in reward according to each person, as that is in the scriptures themselves (recall, e.g., the parable of the talents) and all over the Fathers, but the actual schema that originates in Mormonism and is found only in Mormonism.

You know, this thing:

800px-The_Plan_of_Salvation.jpg


That is found nowhere in any Christian tradition. What is found are things like the following, from St. Jerome's Against the Pelagians (written 417):

In a great house there are different vessels, some of gold, some of silver, brass, iron, wood. And yet while in its kind a vessel of brass is perfect, in comparison with one of silver it is called imperfect, and again one of silver, compared with one of gold, is inferior. And thus, when compared with one another, all things are imperfect and perfect. In a field of good soil, and from one sowing, there springs a crop thirty-fold, sixty-fold, or a hundred-fold. The very numbers show that there is disparity in the parts of the produce, and yet in its own kind each is perfect. Elizabeth and Zacharias, whom you adduce and with whom you cover yourself as with an impenetrable shield, may teach us how far they are beneath the holiness of blessed Mary, the Lord's Mother, who, conscious that God was dwelling in her, proclaims without reserve, "Behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For He that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is His name. And His mercy is unto generations and generations of them that fear Him: He hath showed strength with His arm." Where, observe, she says she is blessed not by her own merit and virtue, but by the mercy of God dwelling in her. And John himself, a greater than whom has not arisen among the sons of men, is better than his parents. For not only does our Lord compare him with men, but with angels also. And yet he, who was greater on earth than all other men, is said to be less than the least in the kingdom of heaven.​

So we are to avoid talking as though there is no distinction to be made, because there absolutely is. But note that what is lacking here is the Mormon neo-Gnostic and at least semi-Pelagian idea that you go to this or that particular place or state relative to your own works. (Pelagius, by the way, believed that people could earn their salvation by basically choosing to behave right, without the aid of the divine grace of God in all cases; if you read the wikipedia article on Pelagianism, you will find that it is an idea that has been embraced by some Mormon scholars as being de facto consistent with Mormon theology.)

From the Christian view, the Mormon schema is the codification of speculation on matters that have most definitely not been revealed to us (and is generally taken to be an allegory anyway, as in Dante; you'll note how St. Jerome above likens it to this or that -- he does not say "You literally go here if you do or don't do XYZ"; as Christ also spoke in parables, I think this is safely within what is reasonable to do, unless of course you want to seriously make the case that Jesus Christ our God meant literal mansions, as in buildings of stone, which I don't think is supportable at all). Maybe the Mormon would claim that they have been revealed to JS or some other Mormon prophet, and therefore are to be believed on that account, but then we're back to why should anyone else take that seriously when the weight of Christian history of all traditions is against the codification of such speculation as in the Mormon case (and, I would say as an Orthodox person, as in the Roman Catholic case with regard to purgatory and formerly limbo; so it's not as though such things are absent from Christianity, either, though I would personally say they are equally unwise for essentially the same reasons).
 
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Rescued One

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You will be happier if you just follow what you believe and teach the truths of what you believe instead of being a critic. Anyone can be a critic. If I thought for a second that you had more truth than what I have I would follow right then. As it is you have settled for a less Jesus. Now I don't know why you and your husband left. Some people leave for the most simple things as being offended by another member to someone thinking what they believe is more complete than Mormonism. Usually people come here because they try to justify their leaving by being critical of the church. This somehow in their minds strengthens their position. If s person came here to teach their beliefs instead of just presenting what they feel is wrong with the church then this would be more valid approach. I have seen almost every critical statement by our critics. There are some that are good criticisms but most are just either a misconception or the person on purpose try's to twist the truth to fit their agenda. There are those that leave the church because they believe what has been misrepresented and don't care or are to lazy to learn the truth. I hope you did true research and not rely on what critics say is suppose to be the truth.

Being critical of Mormonism doesn't justify anyone. Knowing that Mormonism is false places a responsibitiy on the Christian to expose the falsehoods. If you see someone's toddler run into the street, will you ignore that?

Didn't you just criticize critics of Mormonism? Didn't you just warn people to not listen to your critics because they might be wrong? There are those who stay in your church and aren't open to the gospel given by Christ. So are we here to discuss members of other churches or are we here to discuss Mormonism?
 
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ENDOWMENT AND SEALING PRECEDE SONSHIP
“The ordinances of the temple, the endowment and sealings, pertain to exaltation in the celestial kingdom, where the sons and daughters are. The sons and daughters are not outside in some other kingdom.
The sons and daughters go into the house, belong to the household, have access to the home. ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions’ [John 14:2]. Sons and daughters have access to the home where he dwells, and you cannot receive that access until you go to the temple. Why? Because you must receive certain key words as well as make covenants by which you are able to enter. If you try to get into the house, and the door is locked, how are you going to enter, if you haven’t your key? You get your key in the temple, which will admit you.“. . . You cannot find a key on the street, for that key is never lost that will open the door that enters into our Father’s mansions. You have got to go where the key is given. And each can obtain the key, if you will; but after receiving it, you may lose it, by having it taken away from you again unless you abide by the agreement which you entered into when you went into the house of the Lord.”
-Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:40–41
 
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Peter1000

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At the time Jesus spoke about keeping the commandments in (John 14:21) which you quoted, He was speaking to the Jews who were still under the law...before the cross.

He also summed up the law by saying ...‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:37-40

And Paul further throughout his epistles showed that those in Christ live by the Spirit, not by keeping the law...

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2

When someone is free in Christ and loving God with all their heart, soul, and mind and their neighbor as themselves they will by His Spirit be living according to the commandments without being under the law or in bondage to rule-keeping.

The Mormon church not only keeps people in bondage under the law instead of Christ, but also by adding their own list of LDS requirements to the backs of their members.
So do you really think that LDS live under the law of Moses, plus some burdensome requirements that JS put on his members?

Do you think it is more onerous to be married in the temple of God than to be married in a church of God by your pastor? You mean, Jesus being the center of your marriage is a burden?

Do you think it is more burdensome to not divorce your wife for reasons other than adultery.

Do you think it is more burdensome to not be able to marry again if you do divorce your wife for other reasons besides adultery, or your committ adultery?

Do you think it is more burdensome that it is adultery to look on a woman with lust? Did Jesus really teach these burdensome commandments?

Do you think the law of Christ is more burdensome than the law of Moses?

Jesus in John 21 was talking to his apostles, one of the last times that he had a chance to talk to them. He was not talking to a bunch of non-believing Jews. And Jesus was helping them to understand the Law of Christ. The centerpiece of the Law of Christ is to love Jesus Christ, and then in verse 15,
Jesus says, "if ye love me, keep my commandments. Not just the 2 that you mentioned, but all of his commandments. You can study the sermon on the mount in Matthew 5, 6, and 7 to get started. Let me give you one of the commandments he gave in this sermon, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect". Really, I have to be perfect????
That seems like an unChristian doctrine, to be perfect. Did Jesus really say that?

We believe in keeping Christ's NT commandments, not the OT Law of Moses. You like the idea that there is some kind of spirit of keeping the commandments, which to me means that you don't really have to keep them, maybe you have to acknowledge them, but since I had a special moment with the HS, Jesus now does the heavy lifting, and I am free from that sort of stuff.

Good luck with that, I will do what Jesus told us to do, not what you think Paul told you to do.
 
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Peter1000

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ENDOWMENT AND SEALING PRECEDE SONSHIP
“The ordinances of the temple, the endowment and sealings, pertain to exaltation in the celestial kingdom, where the sons and daughters are. The sons and daughters are not outside in some other kingdom.
The sons and daughters go into the house, belong to the household, have access to the home. ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions’ [John 14:2]. Sons and daughters have access to the home where he dwells, and you cannot receive that access until you go to the temple. Why? Because you must receive certain key words as well as make covenants by which you are able to enter. If you try to get into the house, and the door is locked, how are you going to enter, if you haven’t your key? You get your key in the temple, which will admit you.“. . . You cannot find a key on the street, for that key is never lost that will open the door that enters into our Father’s mansions. You have got to go where the key is given. And each can obtain the key, if you will; but after receiving it, you may lose it, by having it taken away from you again unless you abide by the agreement which you entered into when you went into the house of the Lord.”
-Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:40–41
That is exactly what we believe.

Are you aware that there are rooms in Solomon's temple that even today we do not know what they were built for? I can tell you what they were built for. They were built to give the temple endowment to those that were still worthy to do that work. In the basement of Solomons temple was a large baptismal font on 12 oxen, the same configuration as in our temples. These fonts were used anciently for the same reason we use them.

So temples are what God has always had, and always will. You apparently think it is a burden to go to the temple of the Lord and do his work. Well, I don't think it is a burden, to bring fruit into the KOG as the scriptures tell us to do often.

You just have this free ride mentality, and I will tell you, it is not a free ride.
Grace or no grace, it is not a free ride. After a moment of coming to the knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, it is not automatic. That is just the starting point.
 
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Rescued One

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God never had temples. He had only one.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

His sheep are like Paul, having the desire (given to them by God) to follow and please Him. We don't put up with false accusations and slander because it's fun. Our eyes are on Jesus ---- more of HIM, less of us.

John 3
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
 
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RisenInJesus

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That is exactly what we believe.

Are you aware that there are rooms in Solomon's temple that even today we do not know what they were built for? I can tell you what they were built for. They were built to give the temple endowment to those that were still worthy to do that work. In the basement of Solomons temple was a large baptismal font on 12 oxen, the same configuration as in our temples. These fonts were used anciently for the same reason we use them.

So temples are what God has always had, and always will. You apparently think it is a burden to go to the temple of the Lord and do his work. Well, I don't think it is a burden, to bring fruit into the KOG as the scriptures tell us to do often.

You just have this free ride mentality, and I will tell you, it is not a free ride.
Grace or no grace, it is not a free ride. After a moment of coming to the knowledge that Jesus is the Christ, it is not automatic. That is just the starting point.
Mormon temples are very unbiblical.

God had one temple, only for Israel, located in Jerusalem. The Mormon church has temples all over the world.

The temple was solely for the presence of God. The people went to the temple to pray to and worship God. They brought their offerings and their sacrificial animals to the temple because that’s where His presence was. But, they worshipped, prayed and sacrificed directly outside the temple, in the courtyards. They were not allowed inside because the temple was reserved exclusively for the presence of God. Temple marriages for time and eternity, endowments, secret covenants and ceremonies for the dead are exclusively Mormon ideas. Had people attempted such practices in biblical times it most likely would have cost them their lives.

LDS temples have fonts on the backs of the twelve oxen, that is used for baptism by proxy for the dead. This was designed after the pattern of the sea of Solomon’s temple. However, the Bible tells us that the this was for the priests to wash in (2 Chronicles 4:1-6), not baptizing for the dead.

The Old Covenant with its temple, priesthood and sacrificial system, became obsolete when Christ’s shed blood ratified the New Covenant. At the very moment of His death on the cross the curtain that had partitioned off the Holy of Holies ripped into two, from top to bottom. The sole purpose of the Old Covenant temple was to house the presence of God in the midst of His people. But under the New Covenant the believer himself becomes the temple of God, through the indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19, Ephesians 2:19-22). It is no longer necessary to have temples made with hands. There is no record of the early church ever building a temple, because they themselves were the temple of God. So the Mormon church with it practice of building temples and practicing various religious rituals is, not only making themselves into some sort of Israel replacement religion, but they are in complete contradiction to the biblical scriptures relative to the purpose of the original temple of God and the fact that a temple is no longer needed.
 
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