Is Just War ever acceptable?

ALL WARS ALLOWED BY GOD TO HIS GLORY ARE "JUST" BECAUSE HE IS SOVREIGN AND JUST.

HighwayMan said:

All of this makes absolutely no sense. So it's wrong for Christians to defend themselves....but in cases that they do, it's part of God's plan, but still wrong?

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No. Your not getting it. A Christian calling the police does not mean they are directly condoning violence in any way anymore than they would be directly condoning violence by calling upon God for an angel to protect them (And that angel then is given permission from GOD to use lethal force by any means necessary to protect the believer). They are the same thing.

Now, if a Christian had the power or ability to call a hit squad to kill people (and that was their only mission), then that would be different. Then that would be wrong. Police are not a hit squad. They can potentially use violence, but they are also called to resolve situations peacefully if they can. The police are God's ministers of justice for those who do evil or wrong. That does not mean that all of the police department as a whole are saved individuals. They are merely tools or instruments used to carry out God's justice (Similar to when God used a pagan nation "Assyria" to punish Israel at one time in the past for their sins).

The Christian himself is not to act violently in any way. These are direct orders from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself and by His followers within the pages of the New Testament. A person either believes those words or they don't believe them (based upon human rationalization, etc.).

You said:

Was the United States evil when it stopped Nazi Germany?

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Not everyone is a believer (Especially nations as a whole). God knows that.
Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Granted, not all sin leads to spiritual death.
But God knows who are His and God knows that very few are going to get it right.
For narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it.
Noah and his family were the only ones who were spared during the global flood.
Remember, we are talking about Christians here and not nations.
Nations today are not really Christian as in the way Jesus would like them to be Christian.
If you were to truly follow and imitate the life of Jesus as Scripture tells you, then you would end up being persecuted and killed for your faith (Unless of course God prevents you to die like with the disciple John). So this whole idea that you think GOD is powerless to accomplish His plan and purpose by using believers who commanded to be as pacifists today is silly. GOD controls life and death. GOD sees it all. GOD has a greater plan for good that you cannot see. The story of Joseph is a great example of this.

You said:

What bothers me is that all this muddies some pretty clear waters. So that Christians can tell God 'I did nothing, because I thought the Bible teaches me to be against violence."

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But if the Bible teaches that you are to not act violently, then your argument is null and void. It does not matter what you say or how you rationalize it.

For it does not make a whole lot of sense for Adam to not eat from one specific tree when logically there was no real reason to not eat of it except God's Word warning him that he would die if he ate it. Adam had no idea what to expect. All he had was God's Word to trust upon. Obey or not obey. Logic or understanding of obedience is not always forth coming right away. You have to first take that step of faith in order to clearly see (Sort of like when Indiana Jones had stepped out onto that invisible bridge in faith in the 3rd film called "The Last Crusade").

HighwayMan said:

So then every single last Christian without exception is to be crucified tomorrow then?

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We are told to pick up our cross, deny ourselves, and follow Him. Obviously a believer's suffering is not going to be an exact parallel of Christ. Christ died for the sins of the entire world. Christ was worshiped because He is GOD. We are not God. We are to follow in His footsteps in regards to how He lived. We are to suffer as He suffered. We are to live righteously as He lived righteously. All who live Godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted (2 Timothy 3:12).

You said:

And btw, I encourage you to give the same reply to survivors of one of the Syrian villages whose daughters is being tortured and raped right now at the hands of ISIS. Which is what we're talking about. Tell the father to resist violence and to ask with words.

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I would not have a problem writing to them (if I knew them or if God called me to write to them). But their suffering does not change what 2 Timothy 3:12 says. The suffering is temporary and not everlasting; And nobody is going to get away with anything. There is going to be Judgment and all wicked men will be judged there for the evil they do. Remember, GOD has the power to stop this kind of wickedness at any moment. So if you are going to blame anyone, then blame GOD. He is the One who holds the keys of death in His hand. He is the one who had allowed Job to suffer and He is the One who allowed His Son (Jesus Christ) to suffer. Not sure why you think the sufferings of these Christians outshines the suffering of Christ or other believers in GOD through out time.

You said:

Let's just say you will fully deserve the reaction you will receive.

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I am only going by what God's Word says. If you feel New Testament Scripture teaches the use of violent force, you have to make a case for such a thing. The New Testament and not the Old Testament. But keep in mind: You will be hard pressed to find anything that would justify the use of violent force in the NT (Especially when Jesus and His followers taught pacifism). I know. I argued this point to death on various Christian forums (Including this one).

Ron Gurley said:

ALL WARS ALLOWED BY GOD TO HIS GLORY ARE "JUST" BECAUSE HE IS SOVREIGN AND JUST.

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This is a "Poe," right? I missed catching an intended Poe just a couple of weeks ago, so I don't want to miss another.

RDKirk said:

As a retired centurion, he would have held the civil Roman position of lictor, which was the ceremonial bodyguard of the provincial governor (his role was to stand beside the governor at official affairs, holding ceremonial faces). As such, he would have had a contingent of soldiers to attend him, but he himself was not an active duty soldier.

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Again, you are just adding stuff to scripture so that you can bend it to your theology. Nowhere does it say the Centurion was retired, so just stick to the given script please, otherwise we will get nowhere.

As I pointed out, despite dealing with soldiers, Jesus never challenged any of them to hand in their weapons or retire from the army.

Francis Drake said:

Again, you are just adding stuff to scripture so that you can bend it to your theology. Nowhere does it say the Centurion was retired, so just stick to the given script please, otherwise we will get nowhere.

As I pointed out, despite dealing with soldiers, Jesus never challenged any of them to hand in their weapons or retire from the army.

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What you're saying is that Jesus was fine with Roman soldiers claiming to be Christians while terrorizing and crucifying Jews right and left...because that is what the Romans were doing.

RDKirk said:

What you're saying is that Jesus was fine with Roman soldiers claiming to be Christians while terrorizing and crucifying Jews right and left...because that is what the Romans were doing.

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Don't put words into my mouth. Putting up a straw man argument doesn't help your case one iota.
I didn't say Jesus was fine with Roman soldiers terrorising Christians. I said that Jesus was fine with them being soldiers, because that is what the scriptures clearly reveal in several places. eg.-

Luke3v14Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?”
He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”

Can you see any indication that they should leave their soldiering here, or are they just required to do it honestly and justly before God?

Butch5 said:

A lot of Christians won't like this, but, the early Christians understood from Christ and the apostles that they were not to use force. What the nations do is another matter, but the Christians were not to use force. For the first 300 years of Christian history you can find Christian leaders denouncing the use of force. One Christian leader essentially said, 'in our religion it is better to be killed than to kill.' The "Just War" theory didn't come along until the 5th century with men like Augustine.

You questioned whether we are to stand by while others are harmed. I think we have to consider why God hasn't intervened.

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Jesus used a whole lot of force when he made a whip and drove the traders out of the temple and upturned the tables of the money changers.

Just imagine for a moment. Have you ever been to a street market and seen the type of guys there? They are not wimps. but invariably tough and well able to defend themselves. Not only that, but willingly band together when a collective problem occurs, such as a mad man trying to wreck everything like Jesus did.
Not only that again, if there were money traders there, do you not think they might have body guards against bandits?

Jesus did not enter the temple meek and mild, but tough and aggressive, and with a whip he had just made for that purpose!

John2v13When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” 17His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for your house will consume me.”

Does this look like turning the other cheek?
Does this look like Jesus not using force?

Francis Drake said:

Don't put words into my mouth. Putting up a straw man argument doesn't help your case one iota.
I didn't say Jesus was fine with Roman soldiers terrorising Christians. I said that Jesus was fine with them being soldiers, because that is what the scriptures clearly reveal in several places. eg.-

Luke3v14Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?”
He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”

Can you see any indication that they should leave their soldiering here, or are they just required to do it honestly and justly before God?

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You're evading the point. Extorting money is what Roman soldiers did to Jews. Terrorizing and executing Jews is what Roman soldiers did. If those centurions were active duty Roman soldiers, then creating havoc was what they were ordered to do, what they ordered their subordinates to do, and what they did.

You have to ignore even the reality presented in scripture to pretend that a Roman centurion could be a Christian and continue to do his duty as a Roman centurion.

Francis Drake said:

Jesus used a whole lot of force when he made a whip and drove the traders out of the temple and upturned the tables of the money changers.

Just imagine for a moment. Have you ever been to a street market and seen the type of guys there? They are not wimps. but invariably tough and well able to defend themselves. Not only that, but willingly band together when a collective problem occurs, such as a mad man trying to wreck everything like Jesus did.
Not only that again, if there were money traders there, do you not think they might have body guards against bandits?

Jesus did not enter the temple meek and mild, but tough and aggressive, and with a whip he had just made for that purpose!

John2v13When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” 17His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for your house will consume me.”

Does this look like turning the other cheek?
Does this look like Jesus not using force?

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I'm not quite sure how you believe this is relevant. Firstly, you're making assumptions about those at the temple. How one would find today's market place has no bearing on one 2000 years ago in a different culture in a religious temple. Secondly, you're talking about Jesus, not Christians. Jesus also has the authority to judge the world, Christians do not. Jesus also has the authority to sentence people to destruction, Christians do not. The government has the authority to execute murderers, the general population does not. Jesus said, "all authority has been given to Me". He didn't give all authority to Christians.

RDKirk said:

You're evading the point. Extorting money is what Roman soldiers did to Jews. Terrorizing and executing Jews is what Roman soldiers did. If those centurions were active duty Roman soldiers, then creating havoc was what they were ordered to do, what they ordered their subordinates to do, and what they did.

You have to ignore even the reality presented in scripture to pretend that a Roman centurion could be a Christian and continue to do his duty as a Roman centurion.

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Not so, you are the one constantly evading what scripture says. Nowhere do you find Jesus or the apostles telling anyone to leave the army or hand in their swords.
Here is what we do read_
Luke3v14Then some soldiers asked him, "And what should we do?" He replied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely--be content with your pay."

This proves they could remain as soldiers and still be righteous before God, without handing in their swords.

Francis Drake said:

Not so, you are the one constantly evading what scripture says. Nowhere do you find Jesus or the apostles telling anyone to leave the army or hand in their swords.
Here is what we do read_
Luke3v14Then some soldiers asked him, "And what should we do?" He replied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely--be content with your pay."

This proves they could remain as soldiers and still be righteous before God, without handing in their swords.

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It is true that John did not instruct these soldiers to leave their occupation. However, he did call them to commit to a way of life that would almost certainly prove to be incompatible with their military duties. Luke’s gospel account does not describe the soldiers’ reaction to John the Baptist’s answer. Still, I picture these soldiers walking away distraught as the ramifications of his reply sunk in. They likely confessed to each other, “We can learn to be content with our rations, but how can we be soldiers and not use violence? How can we serve in the Roman army and not participate in stripping our enemies of their peace and safety? If we obey this Baptizer, it’s only a matter of time before we’ll be dishonorably discharged or thrown in jail!”

Contemporary Christian author Brian Walsh once wrote, “A Christian can hold any job. But if they act as Christians, they will simply need to be ready to be fired within a few weeks.” This appears to be the approach John the Baptist took in deciding how to answer the repentant soldiers. He could have instructed them to leave the military. However, instead of simply devising a legalistic list of which occupations are incompatible with the Christian life, John chose to list three ethical standards that serve as a framework for evaluating the compatibility of every occupation. If an occupation requires you to inflict violence, take away people’s peace and safety, or greedily seek after more and more wealth, then it is not compatible with the way of Christ.

In many ways I’d prefer to employ John the Baptist’s tactic of simply voicing various ethical standards and virtues that Christians can then use to determine on their own if the nature of an occupation is compatible. Simply give the criteria, and let each person reach their own conclusions.

Article Source:
Did John the Baptist tell repentant soldiers to leave the military?

Francis Drake said:

Not so, you are the one constantly evading what scripture says. Nowhere do you find Jesus or the apostles telling anyone to leave the army or hand in their swords.
Here is what we do read_
Luke3v14Then some soldiers asked him, "And what should we do?" He replied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely--be content with your pay."

This proves they could remain as soldiers and still be righteous before God, without handing in their swords.

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Also, besides filling in the blanks on verses that are not all that clear, the New Testament clearly teaches that Christians are pacifists. You would be hard pressed to find any verses to make for a good solid case that Christians used violence to defend themselves as a part of spreading the good news. On the contrary, we see Christians being persecuted for their faith; And we do not read about how James, and John had taken up swords in violence as a part of spreading the gospel.

Jesus rebuked Peter for using the sword and said, he that lives by the sword shall die by the sword. It does not sound like a ringing endorsement by our Lord for violence here if you ask me.

Jason0047 said:

Still, I picture these soldiers walking away distraught as the ramifications of his reply sunk in. They likely confessed to each other, “We can learn to be content with our rations, but how can we be soldiers and not use violence? How can we serve in the Roman army and not participate in stripping our enemies of their peace and safety? If we obey this Baptizer, it’s only a matter of time before we’ll be dishonorably discharged or thrown in jail!”

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John the Baptist did not say do no violence! That is not in the Greek original text. John is talking about soldiers using their weapon to act as brigands to supplement their wages. Violence in war or policing activity is very different.

Contemporary Christian author Brian Walsh once wrote, “A Christian can hold any job. But if they act as Christians, they will simply need to be ready to be fired within a few weeks.” This appears to be the approach John the Baptist took in deciding how to answer the repentant soldiers. He could have instructed them to leave the military. However, instead of simply devising a legalistic list of which occupations are incompatible with the Christian life,

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If soldiering is incompatible with the Christian life, then we have to scrub the whole Old Testament where Godly spirit led men wielded the sword righteously.
We cannot keep quoting the OT as examples in righteousness, but dismiss the bits that we don't like.

Jason0047 said:

Also, besides filling in the blanks on verses that are not all that clear, the New Testament clearly teaches that Christians are pacifists.

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Utter nonsense.
The fact that some misled Christians are pacifists is no indication that it is scriptural.

You would be hard pressed to find any verses to make for a good solid case that Christians used violence to defend themselves as a part of spreading the good news. On the contrary, we see Christians being persecuted for their faith; And we do not read about how James, and John had taken up swords in violence as a part of spreading the gospel.

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Warning Warning, Straw man argument!
Wherever did you come up with the idea that James and John used the sword to advance the gospel. I certainly never mentioned it nor defend it!

But now that you mention it, for centuries the Catholic Church has used the sword to advance their gospel. But that's another story and completely contrary to what Jesus commanded.

Jesus rebuked Peter for using the sword and said, he that lives by the sword shall die by the sword. It does not sound like a ringing endorsement by our Lord for violence here if you ask me.

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Jesus's comment to Peter was quite specific to the event at hand. Jesus was born to die, and Peter's intervention must not be allowed to halt the will of God. It has also to be taken in the context that Jesus just a short while earlier had told the disciples to get swords!

BTW
A pacifist cannot call the police for help if being attacked or raped otherwise its just violence by proxy.
Neither should he she even struggle as that still involves violence by degree.

In other words, just grin and bear it like a good pacifist, knowing that it is the will of God.

Francis Drake said:

John the Baptist did not say do no violence! That is not in the Greek original text. John is talking about soldiers using their weapon to act as brigands to supplement their wages. Violence in war or policing activity is very different.

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Then God's Word lied to the simple man who only knew English through a KJV for hundreds of years.
But I am sorry. I don't buy that load of garbage. God preserved His Word not only perfeclty in the Greek, but also in the world language of today (Enlgish), too. At this point you are just not accepting what God's Word says in the plain English. But God was able to communicate to people using their own language in Acts chapter 2 just fine. Why you think God has changed is beyond me.

You said:

If soldiering is incompatible with the Christian life, then we have to scrub the whole Old Testament where Godly spirit led men wielded the sword righteously.
We cannot keep quoting the OT as examples in righteousness, but dismiss the bits that we don't like.

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No. Covenants change, along with many of it's laws and teachings that are unique within them.
Unless of course you think we need to sacrifice to animals still or something.

Francis Drake said:

BTW
A pacifist cannot call the police for help if being attacked or raped otherwise its just violence by proxy.
Neither should he she even struggle as that still involves violence by degree.

In other words, just grin and bear it like a good pacifist, knowing that it is the will of God.

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Nope. Because the police are not hit squad or a "do violience only" type group. The police try and resolve the matter peacefully. They are also God's ministers of justice. God says, vengeance is mine, I repay says the Lord. Again, if I prayed for God to have an angel protect me, and God says to that angel to use lethal force to protect me by any means, then that is God's decision and the angel acting upon God's command. It is the same with my calling the police.

Francis Drake said:

Utter nonsense.

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Not at all. Violent self defense in the New Testament is utter nonsense because it is nowhere taught within it's pages even in the slightest degree.

You said:

The fact that some misled Christians are pacifists is no indication that it is scriptural.

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Not true. Here is...

New Testament Scripture That Supports Pacifism:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Matthew 26:52-53
52 Then Jesus told him, "Put your sword back in its place because all who take up a sword will perish by a sword.
53 Or do you think that I cannot call on My Father, and He will provide Me at once with more than 12 legions of angels?

Matthew 5:44-45
44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Luke 6:27-29
27 But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.
29 If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also;

Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

Matthew 5:39 But I say to you, Do not make use of force against an evil man; but to him who gives you a blow on the right side of your face let the left be turned. -Bible in Basic English

Luke 12:22 And he said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat, nor about your body, what you shall put on.

Matthew 7:12 In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.

1 Peter 3:8-9
8 Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind.
9 Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.

Romans 12:17-21
17 Never repay anyone evil for evil. Take thought for what is right and gracious and proper in the sight of everyone. - AMP
18 and do your best to live at peace with everyone. - CEV
19 Christian brothers, never pay back someone for the bad he has done to you. Let the anger of God take care of the other person. - NLV for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. - KJV

1 Thessalonians 5:15 See that none of you repays evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to all.

1 Peter 2:21-23
21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
22 He committed no sin; no guile was found on his lips.
23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he trusted to him who judges justly.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

2 Corinthians 10:4 We do not use those things to fight with that the world uses. We use the things God gives to fight with and they have power. Those things God gives to fight with destroy the strong-places of the devil.

Luke 3:14 Do violence to no man,

John 8:7 But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Matthew 10:28-31
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s will.
30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Luke 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God.

James 3:18 The fruit of righteousness is sown in peace for them that make peace.

Romans 10:15. How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace.

Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore . . . having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace.

Ephesians 4:1-3
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord

Romans 16:20 The God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren ... be perfected; be comforted; be of the same mind; live in peace: and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus

Galatians 1:13 - For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it.

2 Timothy 3:12 - Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution

1 Peter 4:12-16
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind...

Matthew 5:10 - Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

1 Corinthians 13:3 - and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profits me nothing.

Philippians 1:21 - For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Revelation 13:10 - He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints

You said:

Warning Warning, Straw man argument!
Wherever did you come up with the idea that James and John used the sword to advance the gospel. I certainly never mentioned it nor defend it!

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Surely if violent force in self defense is justifyable in the NT, then we would see James and John defend themselves with swords as a part of spreading the gospel when they encountered enemies bent on killing them.

You said:

But now that you mention it, for centuries the Catholic Church has used the sword to advance their gospel. But that's another story and completely contrary to what Jesus commanded.

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Soldiers today go to war with other countries. In their worldly thinking: In some cases a good defense, is a good offense. So do you condemn the UK or the US in sending soldiers out to war?

You said:

Jesus's comment to Peter was quite specific to the event at hand. Jesus was born to die, and Peter's intervention must not be allowed to halt the will of God. It has also to be taken in the context that Jesus just a short while earlier had told the disciples to get swords!

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Not true. Jesus said he that lives by the sword shall die by the sword. Jesus did not say Peter... if you live by the sword YOU will die by the sword. Jesus referred generically to everyone here.

HighwayMan said:

So then every single last Christian without exception is to be crucified tomorrow then?

And btw, I encourage you to give the same reply to survivors of one of the Syrian villages whose daughters is being tortured and raped right now at the hands of ISIS. Which is what we're talking about. Tell the father to resist violence and to ask with words.

Let's just say you will fully deserve the reaction you will receive.

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the idea of are going of their way to kill other people, who are unsaved, to get a temporal goal, is what seems the horrible thing about war to me.
Self-Defense and The Use of Force

“Killing An Attacker Removes His Chance Of Ever Being Saved”

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