The 24th is here and we're all still here.

JacksBratt said:

Yes, that was my quote. Not sure where the confusion is though..

On one hand,,,,, the sacrificial offerings resumes.

On the other hand, the poster is denying a once saved always saved concept...

Two totally different concepts, IMO

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The concept that in the future human beings will be required to be physically circumcised and render blood animal sacrifices directly at the feet of Jesus Christ in order to achieve atonement for their sins and be accepted by Him would be unrecognizable to the apostles.

They all taught the OPPOSITE of this.

JacksBratt said:

Hey..... I'm only quoting God's words.

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That's Odd... the link you provided from which the quotes you drew from came, was a COMMENTARY, written by fallible men presumably in the 20th or 21st century, with a clear bias toward making the scripture cited fit their previously held position.

Calling that "God's Word" is pretty generous.

parousia70 said:

That's Odd... the link you provided from which the quotes you drew from came, was a COMMENTARY.

Click to expand...

A commentary with biblical references.

JacksBratt said:

A commentary with biblical references.

Click to expand...

see my edited post above

parousia70 said:

The concept that in the future human beings will be required to be physically circumcised and render blood animal sacrifices directly at the feet of Jesus Christ in order to achieve atonement for their sins and be accepted by Him would be unrecognizable to the apostles.

They all taught the OPPOSITE of this.

Click to expand...

This link contains a very well researched and presented view of this concept... if you want to take the time to read it. I found it very informative.
16.5.10.2. Millennial Sacrifices Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ

parousia70 said:

see my edited post above

Click to expand...

My post still contains links to biblical references that back up the commentary of the writers.

It is not a baseless commentary. See my post above.

God bless.

Animal sacrifices are a waste. However, this is not necessarily true through the eyes of a Jew/Iraeli/Hebrew still living under of the Law of Moses (in contrast to the atonement of the Christ). Even so, in Genesis, where did God tell Abel to sacrifice an animal? Nowhere. It is a man-made invention, just as is with most "religious" perspectives. This is no different than marriage. Moses allowed divorce. The Christ (Jesus) addresses this in Matthew 19:8. (It was not always so). However, nowhere in the bible do we see a command from God against divorce PRIOR to Moses allowing it.

You must understand that the laws brought about forward were constructed against the current sins of man. An example in comparison is to ask this question: Why didn't Moses write the entire (United States) Constitution of Law back then? Why not get ALL the laws out 3000 years ago?

But because Abel had ALREADY sacrificed an animal before God's law had been established, it was "seen" as sinless. However, sacrificing an animal violates the sin of murder. In any case, we could go on all day about it, but just like divorce, it has been white washed throughout history. The truth is, man continues to dilute the law and word of God.

Ask yourself this question: Will there be animal sacrifices in Heaven? If not, then why here? If yes, will you want to be there to see it? I don't know about you, but killing puppies and kittens is not alright. (Apologies for using such a harsh example - nevertheless).

parousia70 said:

Did it happen?
Were there any photographs taken of this?
Seems to me, if it were truly meant to be a sign for all humanity to observe and interpret, we would have seen it, no?

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I don't see how it could have been seen since the daylight obscures the sight of the constellations and planets.

parousia70 said:

I ate a banana this morning.
First banana I have eaten in a month.
I Guess that's significant.

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I don't really care. I had nothing to do with matter. I only commented on what I was told. I have no interest in trying to defend it.

psif said:

God bless.

Animal sacrifices are a waste. However, this is not necessarily true through the eyes of a Jew/Iraeli/Hebrew still living under of the Law of Moses (in contrast to the atonement of the Christ). Even so, in Genesis, where did God tell Abel to sacrifice an animal? Nowhere. It is a man-made invention, just as is with most "religious" perspectives. This is no different than marriage. Moses allowed divorce. The Christ (Jesus) addresses this in Matthew 19:8. (It was not always so). However, nowhere in the bible do we see a command from God against divorce PRIOR to Moses allowing it.

You must understand that the laws brought about forward were constructed against the current sins of man. An example in comparison is to ask this question: Why didn't Moses write the entire (United States) Constitution of Law back then? Why not get ALL the laws out 3000 years ago?

But because Abel had ALREADY sacrificed an animal before God's law had been established, it was "seen" as sinless. However, sacrificing an animal violates the sin of murder. In any case, we could go on all day about it, but just like divorce, it has been white washed throughout history. The truth is, man continues to dilute the law and word of God.

Ask yourself this question: Will there be animal sacrifices in Heaven? If not, then why here? If yes, will you want to be there to see it? I don't know about you, but killing puppies and kittens is not alright. (Apologies for using such a harsh example - nevertheless).

Click to expand...

So are you thinking that Cain and Abel were just volunteering sacrifices in Gen 4 ? How about the accounts in Leviticus, like here : (Leviticus 16:20-22) ? Are you saying They just sort of "felt like it" and God accepted some and not others ? I must say I've never heard that view if that is what you mean.

God Bless.

Hey Dave G. - Thanks for asking.

To answer your question quickly. Yes and no. I urge you to re-read my post carefully. to grasp the implication behind the message.

Firstly, and to the point, Moses wasn't there. He (and especially we) couldn't possibly know what God said to Abel or Adam / Eve et cetera. So, there will always be gaps in the story in that sense. First, I'll remove the negations so that the context is clearer.

Second, it is not written that God required or asked Abel for a sacrifice, especially that of an animal.
However, it doesn't NOT either - again, we couldn't possibly know what God asked of Abel / Cain.

Indeed it's an odd passage / scripture. Only a handful of people around with who knows how much cattle around. Everyone is toiling away and suddenly Abel decides to kill an animal (unknown as to which kind - although a sheep seems fitting). It cannot possibly be Satan that tempted Abel to kill the animal (let us assume it is a sheep for the sake of the argument) since it was a pleasing sacrifice to God.

We understand throughout the old Testament that an animal sacrifice was indeed a sacrifice since, for example, sheep provide clothing, and bulls provide great work production for their strength. So, a question begs - "what came over Abel to kill an animal?" and also, "is that why Cain killed Abel?" Perhaps Cain thought it cruel of his brother to kill an innocent animal and he reacted. Who can know? There is not enough information given.

Even so, all this is not my point. What I was meaning is that, sin is not sin until the law sheds light on it (Paul - Book of Romans - no specific reference since the entire book is about sin versus law). I give the example of divorce. Moses had no law given from God that divorce was incorrect/unlawful. However, I'm almost certain his conscience was otherwise. Jesus reiterated the fact that "It was not always so". I don't see Adam or Eve sacrificing animals. Therefore, in the same arena of thought, "it was not always so" (unless they did indeed, yet it is not written).

Another point to stress is the comparison with heaven. Since it is most likely that heaven will not suffer the sacrifice of animals. Even so, there is no command that "you shall not sacrifice an animal". Indeed, just the opposite, (post Moses) that "you shall not kill". I take that through exegesis that "you shall not kill anything" (including animals). However, I'm not the author of the Pentateuch.

JacksBratt said:

This link contains a very well researched and presented view of this concept... if you want to take the time to read it. I found it very informative.
16.5.10.2. Millennial Sacrifices Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ

Click to expand...

1) The Explanation of "memorial Sacrifices" is not new to me, and really does not answer the fundamental problem for the Dispy, in that the sacrifices mentioned in Ezekiel 40-44 are the ones prescribed by Moses in the Mosaic Law. These are not "memorial sacrifices" by any stretch of the imagination. They are animal blood sacrifices for sin. Premillennialists (Cerinthians) are heading back to, *gasp*, animal blood sacrifices and circumcision of flesh (Ez 44:7,9). What a knock against the finished work of Christ. What a misunderstanding.

You are fooling yourself about Ezekiel 40-44's sacrifices. They are propitiatory and forever:

Ezekiel 40:39
In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.

Ezekiel 42:13
the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;

Ezekiel 43:20
'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.

Ezekiel 43:21
'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering

Ezekiel 43:22
'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering

Ezekiel 43:27
'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

Ezekiel 44:10
"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people

Ezekiel 44:23
"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Ezekiel 43:7
Son of man, this [stone temple] is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever. (Note that FOREVER is much longer than 1000 years)

All these offerings are the propitiatory offerings of the Mosaic Law that Jesus came to do away with forever. The teaching of a reinstitution of this blood sacrificial system is a rebuke against the blood of Jesus Christ, and a cause for anathema according to the apostles. A return to this system is a falling away from salvation, according to the apostles. A falling from the grace of Jesus Christ.

2)Your link fails to explain the requirement of Physical Circumcision in the supposed "Millennium", How do you reconcile that one?

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

mmbattlestar said:

I knew this doomsday prediction was a load of baloney, nothing happened yesterday. It's a shame, I was hoping Jesus's second coming was yesterday. But then again, the Lord did say that we wouldn't know the hour and there are still things that have to happen first. Like, finding out who the Antichrist and false prophet are...etc. So, it couldn't have been yesterday. But still, I was hoping.

Click to expand...

It's a money maker ...

parousia70 said:

1) The Explanation of "memorial Sacrifices" is not new to me, and really does not answer the fundamental problem for the Dispy, in that the sacrifices mentioned in Ezekiel 40-44 are the ones prescribed by Moses in the Mosaic Law. These are not "memorial sacrifices" by any stretch of the imagination. They are animal blood sacrifices for sin. Premillennialists (Cerinthians) are heading back to, *gasp*, animal blood sacrifices and circumcision of flesh (Ez 44:7,9). What a knock against the finished work of Christ. What a misunderstanding.

You are fooling yourself about Ezekiel 40-44's sacrifices. They are propitiatory and forever:

Ezekiel 40:39
In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.

Ezekiel 42:13
the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;

Ezekiel 43:20
'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.

Ezekiel 43:21
'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering

Ezekiel 43:22
'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering

Ezekiel 43:27
'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

Ezekiel 44:10
"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people

Ezekiel 44:23
"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Ezekiel 43:7
Son of man, this [stone temple] is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever. (Note that FOREVER is much longer than 1000 years)

All these offerings are the propitiatory offerings of the Mosaic Law that Jesus came to do away with forever. The teaching of a reinstitution of this blood sacrificial system is a rebuke against the blood of Jesus Christ, and a cause for anathema according to the apostles. A return to this system is a falling away from salvation, according to the apostles. A falling from the grace of Jesus Christ.

2)Your link fails to explain the requirement of Physical Circumcision in the supposed "Millennium", How do you reconcile that one?

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

Click to expand...

I think the whole point of Hebrews is that these sacrifices are NOT efficacious in the heavenly temple, only here in relation to approaching God in the earthly temple in our mundane state.

parousia70 said:

1) The Explanation of "memorial Sacrifices" is not new to me, and really does not answer the fundamental problem for the Dispy, in that the sacrifices mentioned in Ezekiel 40-44 are the ones prescribed by Moses in the Mosaic Law. These are not "memorial sacrifices" by any stretch of the imagination. They are animal blood sacrifices for sin. Premillennialists (Cerinthians) are heading back to, *gasp*, animal blood sacrifices and circumcision of flesh (Ez 44:7,9). What a knock against the finished work of Christ. What a misunderstanding.

You are fooling yourself about Ezekiel 40-44's sacrifices. They are propitiatory and forever:

Ezekiel 40:39
In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.

Ezekiel 42:13
the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;

Ezekiel 43:20
'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.

Ezekiel 43:21
'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering

Ezekiel 43:22
'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering

Ezekiel 43:27
'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

Ezekiel 44:10
"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people

Ezekiel 44:23
"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

Ezekiel 43:7
Son of man, this [stone temple] is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever. (Note that FOREVER is much longer than 1000 years)

All these offerings are the propitiatory offerings of the Mosaic Law that Jesus came to do away with forever. The teaching of a reinstitution of this blood sacrificial system is a rebuke against the blood of Jesus Christ, and a cause for anathema according to the apostles. A return to this system is a falling away from salvation, according to the apostles. A falling from the grace of Jesus Christ.

2)Your link fails to explain the requirement of Physical Circumcision in the supposed "Millennium", How do you reconcile that one?

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

Click to expand...

To tell you the truth, I have not researched this topic much more than the post that I gave here.

As far as I'm concerned, I will be there, in a glorious transformed body. I will be in service to my savior as we serve the humans that will have come through the tribulation.

Satan will be bound. People will live long lives as in the days of Noah. It will be shameful to die young. Satan will be set free for a short period of time, near the end because everyone will face his temptation and have to choose Christ, of their own free will.

So, this time period is not much of a concern to me. The times that approach us, pre tribulation are the times for us to be setting our gaze upon.

Steve Petersen said:

I think the whole point of Hebrews is that these sacrifices are NOT efficacious in the heavenly temple, only here in relation to approaching God in the earthly temple in our mundane state.

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So, we'll have to trade our present reality of being actual living stones in the temple of our lord, the very Body of Christ, always near, never afar and needing to "approach God" for He is within us...for a future reality of being separated from God, far off, needing to cleanse ourselves via atonement of the shed blood of bulls and goats, and be required to be physically circumcised before we can attempt such an approach?

And this will be a "Better Country"?

Sorry, I don't subscribe to this "Backwards Redemption-Replacement Theology" that replaces the Perfect Shed Blood of Christ with the imperfect Blood of Bulls and Goats, regardless of how popular it may seem on this board.