LDS For Not Following Joseph Smith?

Rescued One · Sep 22, 2017

You are denied spending eternity with Heavenly Father?

Ironhold · Sep 23, 2017

You know full well what the theology is.

Those who don't get the gospel in life will have a chance to receive it in the afterlife.

It's that simple.

BigDaddy4 · Sep 23, 2017

Ironhold said:
You know full well what the theology is.

Those who don't get the gospel in life will have a chance to receive it in the afterlife.

It's that simple.

Not according to the Bible they don't. It's that simple.

Rescued One · Sep 23, 2017

To spend eternity with "Heavenly Father:"

Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey [all]His commandments.

1.
We must be baptized.
2.
We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ[of Latter-day Saints] and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3.
Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
4.
We must receive the temple endowment.
5.
We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.
Gospel Principles Chapter 47: Exaltation

That is only a partial list. The person being baptized should believe that Joseph Smith Jr. was a prophet who restored the lost gospel of Christ.

Those who refuse to believe Mormonism go to a lower kingdom.

Peter1000 · Sep 25, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
To spend eternity with "Heavenly Father:"

Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey [all]His commandments.

1.
We must be baptized.

2.
We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ[of Latter-day Saints] and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

3.
Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.

4.
We must receive the temple endowment.
5.

We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.

Gospel Principles Chapter 47: Exaltation

That is only a partial list. The person being baptized should believe that Joseph Smith Jr. was a prophet who restored the lost gospel of Christ.

Those who refuse to believe Mormonism go to a lower kingdom.

In order to be in the highest KOG, you do what the bible tells you and what the current apostles and prophets tell you. If you refuse to do this then according to LDS doctrine you will enter heaven, but will be in a different part of heaven than where God resides.

It makes sense. Mainline Christians say, if you don't follow Jesus and do the things that Jesus tells us to do in the bible, you will not even go to heaven, even if you are a good person, you will go to hell. What is the difference between mainline Christianity and Mormonism?? Mormonism is much more kind and forgiving.

Peter1000 · Sep 25, 2017

BigDaddy4 said:
Not according to the Bible they don't. It's that simple.

Then why did Jesus go to the spirits in prison? Did he go there to proclaim that his ministry was completed and they were on their way to hell? Is that why Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison.
OR
Did Jesus go and preach to the spirits in prison who had not had the opportunity to hear his name in their lifetime on earth? He now preaches to them and the prison doors are opened and they have a chance, if they believe to go to Abrahams bosom, just like the Lazarus.

No reason to go to the spirits in prision, unless Jesus was going to unlock the doors and let those who believe out.

BigDaddy4 · Sep 25, 2017

Peter1000 said:
Then why did Jesus go to the spirits in prison? Did he go there to proclaim that his ministry was completed and they were on their way to hell? Is that why Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison.
OR
Did Jesus go and preach to the spirits in prison who had not had the opportunity to hear his name in their lifetime on earth? He now preaches to them and the prison doors are opened and they have a chance, if they believe to go to Abrahams bosom, just like the Lazarus.

No reason to go to the spirits in prision, unless Jesus was going to unlock the doors and let those who believe out.

Search your Bible to find the reason. It's not what you think it is.

dzheremi · Sep 25, 2017

Back to the OP:

Is it necessary to follow Joseph Smith to enter heaven, Mormons? Can one rebuke Joseph Smith and his teachings and the other gospel that he brought and still enter heaven? (I suppose I should specify any heaven, though I don't believe in Mormon cosmology...)

Rescued One · Sep 25, 2017

Peter1000 said:
In order to be in the highest KOG, you do what the bible tells you and what the current apostles and prophets tell you. If you refuse to do this then according to LDS doctrine you will enter heaven, but will be in a different part of heaven than where God resides.

It makes sense. Mainline Christians say, if you don't follow Jesus and do the things that Jesus tells us to do in the bible, you will not even go to heaven, even if you are a good person, you will go to hell.

Mainline Christians teach that those who reject the Savior, thus choosing Satan over God, are the goats. The sheep don't reject God and will spend eternity with Him.

Peter1000 said:
What is the difference between mainline Christianity and Mormonism?? Mormonism is much more kind and forgiving.

Mormonism won't allow all the sheep to stay together, but decides some of them are less worthy that others.

Matthew 25
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Wait are they sheep or goats who are "blessed of my father" but can't spend eternity with His Father?

Rescued One · Sep 25, 2017

dzheremi said:
Back to the OP:

Is it necessary to follow Joseph Smith to enter heaven, Mormons? Can one rebuke Joseph Smith and his teachings and the other gospel that he brought and still enter heaven? (I suppose I should specify any heaven, though I don't believe in Mormon cosmology...)

Those who reject Joseph Smith go to one of the lower kingdoms unless they are Sons of Perdition.

D&C 76
71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospelunto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.

80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

The lowest kingdom of glory is called Telestial.

The lowest of the three degrees or kingdoms of glory in heaven. The scriptures compare the glory of the telestial kingdom to the glory of the stars.
Telestial Kingdom

81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.

82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.

83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.

84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.

85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.

86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;

87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial.

88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation.

fatboys · Sep 26, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
Those who reject Joseph Smith go to one of the lower kingdoms unless they are Sons of Perdition.

D&C 76
71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospelunto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.

80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

The lowest kingdom of glory is called Telestial.

The lowest of the three degrees or kingdoms of glory in heaven. The scriptures compare the glory of the telestial kingdom to the glory of the stars.
Telestial Kingdom

81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.

82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.

83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.

84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.

85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.

86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;

87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial.

88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation.

If there is a truth from God and you reject it do you think you deserve the same reward as someone who accepted Gods truth? If you don't want to accept the fact that God has restore in our belief and your not going to reach heaven in the highest part what difference does it make except to pick at. I mean it is really silly. Why would you think that you would receive the same blessings as someone who believes in more.

BigDaddy4 · Sep 26, 2017

fatboys said:
Why would you think that you would receive the same blessings as someone who believes in more.

How do you measure "more"? How does one know if they've done "more" and if that "more" is enough to receive higher blessings (and, I presume, a higher place in one of the lds kingdoms)?

Peter1000 · Sep 26, 2017

dzheremi said:
Back to the OP:

Is it necessary to follow Joseph Smith to enter heaven, Mormons? Can one rebuke Joseph Smith and his teachings and the other gospel that he brought and still enter heaven? (I suppose I should specify any heaven, though I don't believe in Mormon cosmology...)

Can you rebuke Peter, the apostle of Jesus Christ, and his teachings, and still enter heaven?

And you can say heaven, it is just divided into 3 kingdoms or glories, the Celestial glory, the Terrestrial glory, and the Telestial glory. Where you end up depends on your righteousness and as the scriptures say we will be judged according to your works.
If your works are Celestial type of works you will be in the Celestial glory of heaven.
If your works are of a Terrestrial type of works you will be in the Terrestrial glory.
If your works are of a Telestial type of works you will be in the Telestial glory.

Peter1000 · Sep 26, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
Mainline Christians teach that those who reject the Savior, thus choosing Satan over God, are the goats. The sheep don't reject God and will spend eternity with Him.

If you don't choose the Savior, you do not necessarily choose satan. There may be many circumstances that prevent you from choosing the Savior.
Those circumstance range from I haven't even heard about the Savior to I chose satan over the Savior.

That is why God has ordained a spirit world after death. So that these circumstances can be eliminated, and all men and women can have the opportunity to hear about the Savior and either accept or reject him. IOW nobody is left behind.

It is clear that those who chose satan over the Savior in life on earth, will choose satan over the Savior in the spirit world too.

Mormonism won't allow all the sheep to stay together, but decides some of them are less worthy that others.

Mormonism has nothing to do with allowing or disallowing sheep to stay together. The individual sheep make that determination.

You think that in a moment of passion, you say I believe in Jesus, that the rest is all automatic. Well that is not biblical. It is not automatic. The sheep, if they do not perform, can be completely cut off. (Remember the vine parable????) Jesus is the vine and the sheep are his branches. But if the branches/sheep don't produce fruit, then they will be cut off and burned.

These parables you completely ignore because of your automatic sheep vision, which puts you in danger. Sheep do not automatically get to the highest heaven because one moment in their life they said I believe in Jesus. That is only the starting point to being saved, not the ending point.

Wait are they sheep or goats who are "blessed of my father" but can't spend eternity with His Father?

Those sheep who are blessed of my father did the will of the father and therefore they will be with Him forever. Those sheep who do not the will of the Father, like the branches who produce no fruit, will be cut off from living with the Father forever. It is up to the sheep/branches. Not JS

Peter1000 · Sep 26, 2017

BigDaddy4 said:
How do you measure "more"? How does one know if they've done "more" and if that "more" is enough to receive higher blessings (and, I presume, a higher place in one of the lds kingdoms)?

How do you measure what the Savior said in this scripture:
Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

How do your measure more righteousness than the scribes and the Pharisees?

If you can answer this question, you can answer fatboys question.

But, know that if your righteousness does not exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees you shall in no case enter into the KOH. IOW there is not automatic passes. Righteousness means something to Jesus.

Peter1000 · Sep 26, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
Those who reject Joseph Smith go to one of the lower kingdoms unless they are Sons of Perdition.

D&C 76
71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospelunto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.

75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men.

76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.

80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

The lowest kingdom of glory is called Telestial.

The lowest of the three degrees or kingdoms of glory in heaven. The scriptures compare the glory of the telestial kingdom to the glory of the stars.
Telestial Kingdom

81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.

82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.

83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.

84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.

85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.

86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;

87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial.

88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation.

Thank you for quoting D&C 76. It answers grundles of questions about how God is going to place all people of the earth, according to their works as spoken of in the scriptures.

All mainline Christians know about that placement is: if you are good you go to heaven, if you are bad you go to hell.

It is much more complicated than that, and God has given JS just a glimpse of the process that He goes through to be just and fair and loving, so thank you for sharing.

BigDaddy4 · Sep 26, 2017

Peter1000 said:
How do you measure what the Savior said in this scripture:
Matthew 5:20
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

How do your measure more righteousness than the scribes and the Pharisees?

If you can answer this question, you can answer fatboys question.

But, know that if your righteousness does not exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the Pharisees you shall in no case enter into the KOH. IOW there is not automatic passes. Righteousness means something to Jesus.

I ask a question and this is your non-response? Even if I were to answer your question, it would not answer what I asked fatboys.

Peter1000 · Sep 26, 2017

BigDaddy4 said:
I ask a question and this is your non-response? Even if I were to answer your question, it would not answer what I asked fatboys.

I thought it was a perfect analogy.

How do you measure when a person has done 'more', and is that 'more' enough
to get you into the highest kingdom of God? This is what you asked.

The Savior tells us that our righteousness has to be 'more' than the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. So you could ask Jesus the same question. How do you measure when a person has done 'more' righteousness than the scribes and the Pharisees, and is my righteousness enough now to get me into the KOH?

So the analogy is a good one, but how do you measure your righteousness, to see if it is 'more' than the scribes and Pharisees? And the answer is, only Jesus can tell if you are righteous enough to come into his kingdom, so it is going to be up to Jesus. But you better be 'more' righteous than the scribes and the Pharisees, or you will be looking from the outside in.

Rescued One · Sep 26, 2017

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Our own righteousness earns nothing! We have nothing to offer Him that He didn't give us.

1 Corinthians 15
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

Luke 17
1 John4
7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? 8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? 9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. 10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

We serve Him because we love Him! We don't serve Him to gain a greater reward than those other Christians.

1 John 4
19 We love him, because he first loved us.

1 John 4
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Rescued One · Sep 26, 2017

fatboys said:
If there is a truth from God and you reject it do you think you deserve the same reward as someone who accepted Gods truth? If you don't want to accept the fact that God has restore in our belief and your not going to reach heaven in the highest part what difference does it make except to pick at. I mean it is really silly. Why would you think that you would receive the same blessings as someone who believes in more.

I don't. Faith is given to believe in Christ not in false prophets. There is no requirement to believe in Joseph Smith.

LDS For Not Following Joseph Smith?

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