Is God constrained?

YouAreAwesome said:

If premise 4 is true and if we have libertarian freedom, then it is not possible for God to know what we will freely do before we do it.

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Ecc 3: [15] That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

God knows what has already been - MEN DO NOT.

God requires, NOW, and what IS to BE.....what has already been -
And precisely HOW HE CAN PREDESTINE and KNOW and PREPARE WHO WILL and WHO WILL NOT stand with or against HIM.

When He say MANY will reject Him and FEW will stand with Him -
He already KNOWS - Men do not. Men are WAITING TO SEE.

God Bless,
SBC

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

Premise 4 is being stated on the assumption that there was another path that Clarence would have chosen except that GOD had known this one. And because GOD cannot know anything that is false, then Clarence had to eat the omelete regardless of the will of Clarence. Therefore Clarence was forced to comply. This is not true.

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No, premise 4 is stating that if God knows a certain future action is true, then that future action must occur because it cannot be changed. If God knows something true about the future, then it is impossible for that truth to be changed. Period.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

GOD must be all knowing in order to pre-destine.

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Did God predestine evil?

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

1. Do you think that you can do anything without GOD knowing what you will do?

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Yes.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

If you think that you can do anything without GOD knowing what you will do, then you claim HE is not all knowing. If you claim that HE is not all knowing, then you are saying HE is not GOD.

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Open Theism teaches He is all knowing of the past, present and the fixed future. But some things are not fixed, hence why God did not know evil would attack this world (Genesis 6:5-6).

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

In all instances, the child operates his/her free will. When the child is walking the path which s/he should follow, the child can see that which has been pre-destined for them.

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Do you believe a person can walk in a path that is not predestined for them?

SBC said:

Ecc 3: [15] That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

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Solomon continues his theme on endless cycles of the same thing over and over. Just one example of many is Ecclesiastes 1:9 says "That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun." Nothing new under the sun is Solomon's insight into the world that he repeatedly conveys as he writes his wisdom.

In Ecclesiastes 3:15 he continues with the same theme,
He is not saying here that the future has already been. Instead he is driving home the same point he's been making throughout the first two and bit chapters, that there is nothing new under the sun. The future will continue in the same way as the present and the past. There is nothing new. God is to be feared throughout the endless meaningless cycle of vanity (Ecclesiastes 1:2).

YouAreAwesome said:

No, premise 4 is stating that if God knows a certain future action is true, then that future action must occur because it cannot be changed. If God knows something true about the future, then it is impossible for that truth to be changed. Period.



Did God predestine evil?



Yes.



Open Theism teaches He is all knowing of the past, present and the fixed future. But some things are not fixed, hence why God did not know evil would attack this world (Genesis 6:5-6).



Do you believe a person can walk in a path that is not predestined for them?

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your whole argument is built on a fallacy. You are attempting to say that pre-destination is the same as knowing. This is not correct. GOD cannot repent, nor can HE lie. You quote the blasphemous Gen 6:5-6, what about Numbers 23:19?

GOD did predestine evil in this world twice to die. They have been appointed that. The physical death, and then the 2nd death in the lake of fire. GOD did not create evil, nor does HE predestine the path they walk. Ultimately, their destination is pre-destined, not the journey in between.

You have outright said that you can act without GOD knowing, then you throw the verse Gen 6:5-6. If that was the case, then why did HE send Noah? Having the foresight of what was going to happen, HE sent Noah to build an ARK. Remember, Noah was well on in years before he was commanded to build it, and he had been preaching for all those years. He was 600 years of age when he entered the ARK.

GOD does not operate on gambles, HE does not invest in losers. HE is not a gambler. The gambler is lucifer. GOD is all knowing and knows all the things you will do before you do them. It is not as if HE is seeing what you do for the first time, HE saw it from before the foundation of the world. When you transgress, you think GOD did not know you would transgress? You ask for forgiveness thinking that HE did not know and is now angry with you for what youve done. This is the wrong mindset.

When we say: GOD knows the end from the beginning, it is not just pointing to the plan of salvation, but to the actions, choices, of HIS children. HE knows all that you will do before you do it, all that you will say before you speak it, all that you will imagine before you imagine it. GOD is all knowing, and HE knows HIS own.

Thus your argument stating that knowing is the same as pre-destination is built on unstable ground, because knowing is not pre-destiny. If one is led by the Spirit, they are not led by the brain. The Spirit has one path, the brain has multiple paths. One that is led by the Spirit is walking the path of divine destiny, one that is led by their brain is choosing their own "lot" in life. That is the difference. Thus the person makes the choice to listen to the Spirit and follow its guidance, or walk according to his brain, and follow his own guidance - as lucifer does.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

nor can HE lie

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Strawman. I never said He lied.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

Ultimately, their destination is pre-destined, not the journey in between.

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You haven't given complete answers. Did God predestine evil? If the journey "in between" is not predestined, do these things happen according to the will of man or the will of God?

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

You ask for forgiveness thinking that HE did not know and is now angry with you for what youve done.

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Strawman. Open Theism teaches God knows all in the past and present.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

When we say: GOD knows the end from the beginning, it is not just pointing to the plan of salvation, but to the actions, choices, of HIS children. HE knows all that you will do before you do it, all that you will say before you speak it, all that you will imagine before you imagine it.

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Did God know all this before creation? Did God create things to be exactly how they are today? Are we living in the perfect plan of God (including all evils)?

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

or walk according to his brain, and follow his own guidance - as lucifer does.

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Not sure this is the best angle to take. Using ones brain should not be equated with "lucifer". Brain and Spirit should go hand in hand, once matured.

YouAreAwesome said:

Strawman. I never said He lied.



You haven't given complete answers. Did God predestine evil? If the journey "in between" is not predestined, do these things happen according to the will of man or the will of God?



Strawman. Open Theism teaches God knows all in the past and present.



Did God know all this before creation? Did God create things to be exactly how they are today? Are we living in the perfect plan of God (including all evils)?



Not sure this is the best angle to take. Using ones brain should not be equated with "lucifer". Brain and Spirit should go hand in hand, once matured.

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Clearly you have misunderstood my entire post.
First when you quote Gen 5-6, you are saying the opposite of Numbers 23:19. Therefore it is not a strawman as the verse states: GOD cannot repent.

I said that GOD has appointed the evil (tares) twice to die. The rest that they do they do according their brain, they are gamblers hoping to find their best "lot in life". GOD is all knowing. HE knows all the past, present and future. GOD did not create the earth as it is today. The earth before the fall was not terrestrial. The terrestrial earth is a result of the fall. Man was also not a mortal, the result of the fall made him a mortal. So, the evil in this world is a result of the fall, and was not predestined by GOD. GOD did know everything that would happen before it happened which is revealing that the fall of Man was a plan, not an accident.

The children of GOD are spiritual. The mind of the Spirit is greater than that of the brain. If one is led by the Spirit, then they are led by GOD because GOD intuitively speaks to man (not Prophets) in the Spirit. Prophets hear audibly from GOD. If one is therefore led by the brain, they are not following the divine path set for them by GOD, and they follow their own way - like lucifer.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

Clearly you have misunderstood my entire post.
First when you quote Gen 5-6, you are saying the opposite of Numbers 23:19. Therefore it is not a strawman as the verse states: GOD cannot repent.

I said that GOD has appointed the evil (tares) twice to die. The rest that they do they do according their brain, they are gamblers hoping to find their best "lot in life". GOD is all knowing. HE knows all the past, present and future. GOD did not create the earth as it is today. The earth before the fall was not terrestrial. The terrestrial earth is a result of the fall. Man was also not a mortal, the result of the fall made him a mortal. So, the evil in this world is a result of the fall, and was not predestined by GOD. GOD did know everything that would happen before it happened which is revealing that the fall of Man was a plan, not an accident.

The children of GOD are spiritual. The mind of the Spirit is greater than that of the brain. If one is led by the Spirit, then they are led by GOD because GOD intuitively speaks to man (not Prophets) in the Spirit. Prophets hear audibly from GOD. If one is therefore led by the brain, they are not following the divine path set for them by GOD, and they follow their own way - like lucifer.

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First, Greg Boyd expounds Numbers 19:23 excellently:




Second, you write "the fall of Man was a plan, not an accident". So God planned evil?

Third, do you think our brains are evil?

YouAreAwesome said:

First, Greg Boyd expounds Numbers 19:23 excellently:

The Lord tells Balak through Balaam “God is not a human being, that he should lie, or a mortal, that he should change his mind.”​

This verse (as well as 1 Samuel 15:29, which quotes it) is often cited in refutation of the claim that God genuinely changes his mind. However, since Scripture explicitly states in dozens of contexts that the Lord does change his mind (twice in 1 Samuel 15!) the text cannot justifiably be used in this fashion. There is a straightforward explanation of this text that is perfectly consistent with texts that teach that the Lord does sometimes change his mind.​

In this passage Balak attempted to get Balaam (a “prophet-for-hire”) to prophesy what he wanted to hear (cf. 22:38–23:17). The Lord informed Balak that he, the true God, is not like a human being who can lie when it’s profitable or a mortal who will change his mind for the sake of convenience. This was a common practice for false prophets who speak on behalf of false gods. But for the first time in his life Balak (and Balaam!) confronted the real God. This God is not like a mortal who would change his mind for the reasons Balak gave him to do so.​

The conclusion that the whole council of Scripture should lead us to is that God changes when it is virtuous to change, but is completely unchanging when it is virtuous not to change.
​

Second, you write "the fall of Man was a plan, not an accident". So God planned evil?

Third, do you think our brains are evil?

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In all instances it is the truth that the LORD GOD cannot lie or repent. Not just in one situation. This person Greg is a great example of one that follows his brain. Im not saying it is evil, im saying that it is interpreting the WORD by his understanding, and not according to what GOD meant. Therefore the brain is not spiritual, GOD is Spiritual and HIS WORD is Spiritual and must be understood by the Spirit.

The fall of Man was not evil. The result of the fall is the sin nature which is evil. The fall itself is not evil. The evil was manifested in the serpent that did what was possible to kill the woman after hearing the parable spoken by GOD. The plan was for procreation which was made possible after the fall because the raiment (body) of Man was made mortal and it is that mortality that enables procreation. For the sperm must die in order to bring forth the body pointing to a system of death needed to procreate the children of the kingdom.

But GOD gave us away out of dying which is through HIS message. Those that digest HIS message which is Spiritual and life giving cannot die. And this is what was meant by Gen 1:28, the first Commandment given.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

In all instances it is the truth that the LORD GOD cannot lie or repent.

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To repent is to change direction including a change of mind. God has changed His mind multiple times throughout history, here are some examples:

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

This person Greg is a great example of one that follows his brain. Im not saying it is evil, im saying that it is interpreting the WORD by his understanding, and not according to what GOD meant. Therefore the brain is not spiritual, GOD is Spiritual and HIS WORD is Spiritual and must be understood by the Spirit.

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It's natural for a person who has been born again in the Spirit, experienced God's supernatural blessings and sees miracles to expect that they must understand the Bible at a very high level. However what I see is how people can be born again and experience God with completely different interpretations of the Bible. Catholics and Pentecostals alike that is. Yes anyone who confesses Jesus as Lord. There's something about the heart that seems most important, not doctrines. Yet in saying that I believe searching for correct doctrine is very important because we can help to reveal Who God actually is, get rid of some of the false ideas about Him. Now just because we disagree does not mean I am of the flesh and you are of the Spirit, or vice versa. We just disagree. Simple as that. Now I have asked you questions that you either refuse to, or can not answer. I have answered all your questions. What you have done is resort to attacking me, and Greg who I've quoted, saying my arguments must be of the brain and not the Spirit. Can I not turn the tables and accuse you of the same thing? I believe our brains should be used in conjunction with the Spirit. We can be transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Now I'll ask another question that you haven't answered yet, did God plan the sinful nature? Is evil part of His perfect plan?

YouAreAwesome said:

To repent is to change direction including a change of mind. God has changed His mind multiple times throughout history, here are some examples:

1 Chronicles 21:15—God said that he would destroy Jerusalem, but then he relented.

2 Kings 10:1-6—King Hezekiah was told through an inspired prophet that he would not recover from sickness. But after Hezekiah pleaded with God, the Lord told him “I will add fifteen years to your life.”​

Exodus 32:14—Because of Moses’ intercessory prayer, “the Lord changed his mind about the disaster he planned to bring on this people.”

Exodus 33:1-3, 14—In the light of Moses’ pleading, the Lord reversed his plan not to go with the Israelites into the promised land.​

Deuteronomy 9:13-29—The Lord “intended to destroy” the Israelites, and was even ready to destroy Aaron. Moses’ 40-day intercession altered God’s intention.

1 Kings 21:21-29—The Lord says that he will bring disaster because of Ahab’s sins. But when Ahab repents, he says that he will not bring disaster.​

2 Chronicles 12:5-8—The Lord was going to allow the Israelites to be conquered because of King Reheboam’s rebellion. The king and his officers repent, so the Lord changes his plan.

Jeremiah 26:2-3—The Lord tells Jeremiah to prophesy to Israel that they should repent, saying, “I may change my mind about the disaster that I intend to bring on [Israel] because of their evil doings.”​

Ezekiel 4:9-15—God tells Ezekiel to act out a prophesy with human dung, but Ezekiel objects. God then allows Ezekiel to act it out with cow dung.

Amos 7:1-6—The Lord revealed two judgments and two times Amos intercedes. Twice the Scriptures say, “The Lord relented concerning this …”

Jonah 3:10—God “changed his mind” about the destruction he planned to carry out on Nineveh.
​

It's natural for a person who has been born again in the Spirit, experienced God's supernatural blessings and sees miracles to expect that they must understand the Bible at a very high level. However what I see is how people can be born again and experience God with completely different interpretations of the Bible. Catholics and Pentecostals alike that is. Yes anyone who confesses Jesus as Lord. There's something about the heart that seems most important, not doctrines. Yet in saying that I believe searching for correct doctrine is very important because we can help to reveal Who God actually is, get rid of some of the false ideas about Him. Now just because we disagree does not mean I am of the flesh and you are of the Spirit, or vice versa. We just disagree. Simple as that. Now I have asked you questions that you either refuse to, or can not answer. I have answered all your questions. What you have done is resort to attacking me, and Greg who I've quoted, saying my arguments must be of the brain and not the Spirit. Can I not turn the tables and accuse you of the same thing? I believe our brains should be used in conjunction with the Spirit. We can be transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Now I'll ask another question that you haven't answered yet, did God plan the sinful nature? Is evil part of His perfect plan?

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First, allow me to apologise. I never meant to accuse you, only to state that GOD is Spiritual and you must be Spirit led to understand HIS WORD. I can see many verses that claim GOD can repent, though i provided one which says HE cannot. However, if we call GOD all knowing, how can one that is all knowing make a mistake in order to repent? if GOD is infallible, how then can HE repent?
'
The sinful Nature was planned for the purpose of procreation which is made possible by the blood in our body. The system of the fallen Nature and fallen earth is death. Blood cells in your body even die to reproduce. It is the LAW of Procreation.

Except a seed falls the the ground and dies, it abideth alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. Once the fruit is grown, you cannot find that seed anymore, it died to produce the fruit. In the same way, the sperm dies to fertilize the egg to produce the body. So the fallen nature which is mortality was planned for the procreation of the body of Christ( HIS children). The fall of Man was not evil, the state of Man after the fall is sin nature. The blood in the body is the reason we transgress. So the blood needs to be drained by eating the WORD of GOD that is pure, raw, undiluted. For the WORD of GOD is life giving, and overthrows the current cell system, draining the blood and producing light, which is the Glory Man fell short of. The Cells are called Zoe, and are the immortal cell which is the life force for immortals.

Evil is the tares, which sprouted up like weeds because of the Altar set of the earth, which was pre-set to benefit the children of GOD in their fallen earth. This is the evil that is not known by GOD because HE is like the immaculate light, in Whom there is no darkness at all. For i will say to them... I never knew ye.

It is the tares that are appointed twice to die. First the physical death, then be cast into the lake of fire. that is as far as pre-destination goes for them.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

First, allow me to apologise. I never meant to accuse you,

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Thanks, all good.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

if we call GOD all knowing, how can one that is all knowing make a mistake in order to repent? if GOD is infallible, how then can HE repent?

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Exactly. These are the questions that led me to search for answers. The answer, He is all knowing of all that is knowable (past, present, settled future). The future is not knowable because it involves the free will choices of agents that are outside of God's control.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

The sinful Nature was planned for the purpose of

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I think this is some shaky ground. God planned out evil and sin? Perfect love plans sin? Does this not place Him as the direct cause of evil?

YouAreAwesome said:

Thanks, all good.



Exactly. These are the questions that led me to search for answers. The answer, He is all knowing of all that is knowable (past, present, settled future). The future is not knowable because it involves the free will choices of agents that are outside of God's control.



I think this is some shaky ground. God planned out evil and sin? Perfect love plans sin? Does this not place Him as the direct cause of evil?

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GOD knows the end from the beginning. Nothing is beyond HIS power. That is what it means to be Almighty. HE knows the whole future, not just the settled future. HE knows the choices we will make, the thoughts we will have, the things we will ask for, from the foundation of the world. HE is the Supreme Spirit Being. The Supreme Oracle. Nothing takes HIM unawares, therefore HE cannot make mistakes, nor can HE repent.

GOD allowed evil to define darkness, and also to define the light. For where there is darkness (evil) there is no light. Where there is light, there can be no darkness. The sin nature is the result of the fall of Man. It is a nature, mortality. We are not mortals, for we are the living soul. It is the body that is mortal and that is what the result of the fall is. The body was altered, the cell structure was altered and began a negative metamorphosis. The evil was the intentions of the serpent to slay them. That is why it was a parable spoken by GOD in Gen 2:17 which manifested that evil in the serpent, because the serpent did not understand the parable. That is why the body must be changed (1 Cor 15:50-58) restored to its Glory. It is the body that was disfigured, which is why it must again be transfigured. The Spirit was never disfigured. For that is what comes from GOD. And what comes from GOD cannot die.

Adam H.E being the Prophet of all prophets, understood what his father was saying, because he saw the LOGOS. He knew that the fall of Man was needed to procreate. He knew what the affects of the fruit would be. Eve did not know, and was deceived. If Man did not fall, we could not be here today manifested in a body. Rather, we would still be in the Bosom of thy Father, not being able to experience ever lasting life in a body. The sin nature was a by product of the fall in that it was necessary to procreate which is why GOD sent messengers to uproot it from its root, but the messengers could not accurately interpret the WORD of GOD. And so the Church Ages have been dying, one after another. Man does not have to die, he can live and transfigure as Enoch and Elijah did.

So what you call evil, was not evil. Evil are tares, weeds of the earth that are products of the abyss (any place GOD has removed HIS presence from) and they walk among us today, in the body of Man. These are the children of disobedience, and are destined for the Lake of fire. For they cannot transfigure, nor can they hear the message, or understand it in their hearts. They are children of men. We are children of GOD. The fall of Man was a plan to procreate the body of Christ. Without it, it was not possible.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

GOD knows the end from the beginning. Nothing is beyond HIS power. That is what it means to be Almighty. HE knows the whole future, not just the settled future. HE knows the choices we will make, the thoughts we will have, the things we will ask for, from the foundation of the world. HE is the Supreme Spirit Being. The Supreme Oracle. Nothing takes HIM unawares, therefore HE cannot make mistakes, nor can HE repent.

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Yep, I know you believe this, you've mentioned this a few times.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

GOD allowed evil to define darkness

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If God knows the total future and is all powerful He did more than allow evil, He caused evil. Are you arguing God created (by way of creating free creatures whose future He knew) evil for a purpose?

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

The sin nature is the result of the fall... The evil was the intentions of the serpent to slay them... He knew that the fall of Man was needed to procreate.

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It certainly is an interesting thought that the sin nature was a necessary part of procreation (if I am understanding you correctly) and that the sin nature was not evil in and of itself. But are you saying pain is not a solely a byproduct of evil? That pain would have been present in Paradise? That evil was the corruption of the spirit not the body? That pain would have been present on this earth even if there was no evil? I am trying focusing on the constraints on God. I see the problem with believing God knows the total future as being it places Him in total responsibility for not just pain, but evil.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

The sin nature was a by product of the fall in that it was necessary to procreate which is why GOD sent messengers to uproot it from its root, but the messengers could not accurately interpret the WORD of GOD. And so the Church Ages have been dying, one after another. Man does not have to die, he can live and transfigure as Enoch and Elijah did.

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I do not understand this bit sorry. What messengers? Sent to uproot the sin nature that was necessary for procreation?

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

So what you call evil, was not evil.

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Is causing pain to another person evil? As I asked just earlier, is all pain a byproduct of a deceived world?

I actually think I understand what you are saying after reading it a few times, that the sin nature was created by God, that pain was necessary and is not evil, and that evil came from lucifer and attacks humanity spiritually. But I don't think this changes the fundamental problem I see. If God knew the total future He would be responsible for creating creatures who would cause evil. He would be liable for lucifers choices even today.

I must learn how to cut up pieces the way you do and quote them ) Let me try.

[QUOTEBut are you saying pain is not a solely a byproduct of evil? That pain would have been present in Paradise? That evil was the corruption of the spirit not the body? That pain would have been present on this earth even if there was no evil? I am trying focusing on the constraints on God. I see the problem with believing God knows the total future as being it places Him in total responsibility for not just pain, but evil.[/QUOTE]

The reason we can experience pain is because the body is terrestrial. It is the body that can be broken, burnt, shattered, cut, destroyed so pain is a result of that. Evil is death. If you look at the word evil and spell it backwards, it reads Live. This is not a coincidence, the GOD who knows the end from the beginning hid revelations in all languages. For instance, Noah, is a knower. HE knows GOD. Adam H.E was birthed in the image and after the likeness of GOD. Therefore HE is like GOD. And GOD being the one and only GOD had to cook the soup that would make him fall, and build him back up again to show that HE is GOD and there is no other. Evil is any Spirit that does not come from GOD. They are products of reproduce, a product of the air, water, earth. GOD did not make them, they sprouted up like weeds.

[QUOTE="I do not understand this bit sorry. What messengers? Sent to uproot the sin nature that was necessary for procreation?[/QUOTE]

The messengers sent are the 7 Angels of the Church Ages. Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Apostle Peter. These Holy Men are the Angels of the Church Ages which led their Church Age, and dispensed the WORD of GOD for the church. None of them could interpret the height of communication from GOD accurately, and thats why Abraham nearly slew his son. What GOD was saying is feed him Revelations (my WORD) and deliver the child to me alive. - thats an example. Another is the lamb which the people were told by Moses to sacrifice - one for each family. It was supposed to be one for all the people, to Adumbrate the Atonement (At one Ment).

The Message is life giving when it is pure, and adulterated, or unleavened. It is the way GOD designed for HIS children to obey the first Commandment, subdue the earth Gen 1:28. For only a Celestial, Immortal can subdue the earth because they are superior to the terrestrial systems of the earth. Since the message has not been interpreted Accurately, there are many, many denominations when the body should be one. And Men have continued to die because they do not have the bread of life.

[QUOTE="I actually think I understand what you are saying after reading it a few times, that the sin nature was created by God, that pain was necessary and is not evil, and that evil came from lucifer and attacks humanity spiritually. But I don't think this changes the fundamental problem I see. If God knew the total future He would be responsible for creating creatures who would cause evil. He would be liable for lucifers choices even today.[/QUOTE]

Lucifer is a weed, also not created by GOD, but a product of reproduce. That is why the Parable GOD spoke revealed the evil in them. The serpent and lucifer both have Celestial bodies, but the real being (Spirit) is the Spot which cannot be cleansed. They are unholy because GOD never made them. So GOD is not responsible for lucifer, or for tares which are unholy...

seems i don't know how to cut up the comment, sorry. i tried.

Some interesting stuff. To do the quote thing I just highlight the bit I want to quote and the option comes up "+ Quote" and I click on it. I'm using laptop and desktop, not sure if it works on a phone or an iPad.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

GOD had to cook the soup that would make him fall, and build him back up again to show that HE is GOD

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Can I clarify, God intended for creation to fall but didn't intend for them to die? Just to procreate.

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

Evil is any Spirit that does not come from GOD. They are products of reproduce, a product of the air, water, earth. GOD did not make them, they sprouted up like weeds.

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I am confused as to how you reconcile this:
1. God knows the future
2. God created everything
3. God did not create the evil spirits

How are the byproducts of "reproduce" outside of God's creation and foreknowledge?

Newlyrestoredgospel777 said:

They are unholy because GOD never made them. So GOD is not responsible for lucifer, or for tares which are unholy

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As above, I don't see how God is not responsible just because He didn't directly create them, but created the stuff that created them with the foreknowledge that it would happen the way it did.

YouAreAwesome said:

Some interesting stuff. To do the quote thing I just highlight the bit I want to quote and the option comes up "+ Quote" and I click on it. I'm using laptop and desktop, not sure if it works on a phone or an iPad.

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thank you so very much! This will make for a more clearer discourse )

YouAreAwesome said:

Can I clarify, God intended for creation to fall but didn't intend for them to die? Just to procreate.

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Not exactly. Father Adam H.E and Mother Eve had to die because of the LAW of Procreation which states:
except a seed falls to the ground and dies, it abideth alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. However, Father Adam H.E and Mother Eve are the only ones that had to die. That is why death is called our final enemy (1 Cor 15:26) because that enemy has taken much more than it ever should have. The fact that man did not have to die is shown by Enoch never dying, and being the 7th from Adam H.E, he was also in the similitude of the 7th Angel of the 7th Church Age.

YouAreAwesome said:

I am confused as to how you reconcile this:
1. God knows the future
2. God created everything
3. God did not create the evil spirits

How are the byproducts of "reproduce" outside of God's creation and foreknowledge?

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I never said they were outside of GOD's knowledge. GOD knows the end from the beginning. HE is all knowing. What produced them are the matrixes which exist for Man. You read that GOD spoke to the earth which brought forth animals and trees after their kind, showing that the earth can be personified as a woman. And everything that comes out of the earth is produced by her. Nature is a woman, so is water, so is air. They are matrixes which exist to benefit Adamites (children of GOD). An evil Spirit is a spirit that was not created by GOD. That is why they are evil because they are pure darkness. They are spots that cannot be cleansed because they the very Spirit is unholy. For all that was made by GOD is Holy, and they were not made by GOD. The proof of what im saying is the following verse.

John 1: 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

This verse is revealing that anything made without HIM was not made. therefore, there exists things that were not made by GOD, and this is also why there are wheats and there are tares. Tares are unholy spirits in the body of man brought forth by the earth/water/air.

A child is born, a Son is given.

YouAreAwesome said:

As above, I don't see how God is not responsible just because He didn't directly create them, but created the stuff that created them with the foreknowledge that it would happen the way it did.

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If GOD does not send a child (the Spirit being) into the womb of an expecting mother during the 6th-7th month of pregnancy, an unholy spirit enters the body of the baby, and that child is a tare. GOD knowing this, sent messengers to deliver HIS message. For only a child of the kingdom can defeat death and subdue the earth. And, it is only HIS children that can hear the message and understand it in their hearts. No other children of the kingdom had to die, only Father Adam H.E and mother Eve. Therefore, death is a thief, which robs men of their body, and destroys it sending the Spirit being (the person) into the ghost world call hell because Heaven is a real physical place and you need your body (transfigured) to gain entrance. No person that dies goes to heaven. They wait in hell, or Abraham's Bosom for their resurrection.

There are several things God cannot do....

1) He cannot force anyone to love Him.
2) He cannot force anyone to trust Him.
3) He cannot lie. Many passages in scripture that the Eternal One cannot lie.

Some things that God doesn't know....

1) He doesn't know another way to salvation than thru His Son.
2) He doesn't know a better time to accept His Son than right now.

I am sure if we really got into this, we could add to those lists and still not be irreverent of God or who He is. This from another poster implies that.

Soyeong said:

God is constrained, but it is not an outward constraint where something is more powerful than God and is acting to prevent God from taking certain actions, but rather it is an inward constraint in accordance with His character.

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Steve Petersen said:

Is there anything that prevents God from doing some things?

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In my opinion, this kind of question makes no sense directed about God. God is beyond human philosophizing. What kind of "anything" could do such a thing as "prevent from doing" with God?

God is restrained by the boundries of His “doctrine”. Without these self imposed character traits we would have no way to discern what is of God and what is not.