Kurdistan!!

mindlight · Sep 25, 2017

Are the Kurds finally going to win their freedom?

What will Iraq, Iran and Turkey do if this happens?

Why are America and the UK opposed to what is only fair?

Iraqi Kurdistan holds independence vote

Sketcher · Sep 25, 2017

Being as there are territorial disputes, a war would very likely happen.

Alicia Schout · Sep 25, 2017

Sketcher said:
Being as there are territorial disputes, a war would very likely happen.

Well, I don't know much of the history of the Kurds. I am interested to get some information and also background historical information. But regardless of what these are people just as we are. God's creation. I pray that they will be able to live in peace and have a land/territory of their own as a nation. We should treat others as we would like to be treated. This is in accordance to God's word. We should pray for the
governments of the UK, Europe, the US, Irak, Iran and Turkey to govern with peace , respect for different nations, love and compassion and not to oppress strangers or other nations or even their own peoples. We have authority through Jesus to cast down all strongholds. To bind the strongman. To claim the victory because of what Jesus did for us on the cross. He disarmed all powers and principality. There should be a group prayer for the nation.

mindlight · Sep 25, 2017

Sketcher said:
Being as there are territorial disputes, a war would very likely happen.

A war it seems the Kurds are fully prepared to fight on their own territory. Without American intervention i do not think a local power will triumph over them.

mindlight · Sep 25, 2017

Alicia Schout said:
Well, I don't know much of the history of the Kurds. I am interested to get some information and also background historical information. But regardless of what these are people just as we are. God's creation. I pray that they will be able to live in peace and have a land/territory of their own as a nation. We should treat others as we would like to be treated. This is in accordance to God's word. We should pray for the
governments of the UK, Europe, the US, Irak, Iran and Turkey to govern with peace , respect for different nations, love and compassion and not to oppress strangers or other nations or even their own peoples. We have authority through Jesus to cast down all strongholds. To bind the strongman. To claim the victory because of what Jesus did for us on the cross. He disarmed all powers and principality. There should be a group prayer for the nation.

Iraq was born after the first world war from an amalgamation of 3 Ottoman Turk provinces which the British conquered. A kurdish one, a sunni one and a Shia one. The British like the Ottomans before them used the Sunni Arabs to rule the place but ultimately found it not worth the hassle. The newly independent countries monarchy and later Baathist party were drawn from the Sunnis. The Kurds like the Shias were an oppressed population for much of the last 100 years. After Gulf War 1 and then 2 they achieved a degree of autonomy which they have continued to enjoy even after the Americans have left. The Peshmerga have distinguished themselves fighting ISIS and defending their country. They have become a nation in all but name.

While the Sunni and Shia populations of Iraq have largely been killing or expelling their Christian populations the Kurds provided a safe haven for them. While the Sunni Arabs spawned the horrors and evil of ISIS the Shia Iraqi government is demonstrably corrupt and incompetent but the Kurds have prospered and governed more wisely. They do not want to be part of a Sunni Caliphate or A corrupt and incompetent Shia state. Iran wants them to remain a part of a Shia dominated Iraq and fears what independence might encourage in its own Kurdish population. Turkey also has a large Kurdish population. They tend to regard Kurds as being Communist terrorists (PKK) and have no desire to see a Kurdish state. It is not really in America or Britains interest to oppose Kurdish independence but they have done so because of the sensibilities of key allies in the region. This is stupid cause the Kurds are the best friends we have in the region. Far better than the Turks who under Erdogan have their own agenda and ambitions

I have prayed for Kurdish independence for more than 30 years. But the character of that independence is important. I want this new country to be one of those rare places in the middle east where freedom and a church could thrive. For their own sake the Kurds must build an outward looking country or descend into the same inter tribal conflicts that consume much of the rest of the region

brinny · Sep 25, 2017

God bless the Kurds. Praying for these precious people. (((hug)))

JackRT · Sep 25, 2017

When the British and the French, mostly the British, divided up the remnants of the collapsed Ottoman Empire following WW1, they did so without any consideration of tribal and religious loyalties and then installed their own puppet leaders. The Kurds were ignored in all this and they should not have been. It will now be next to impossible to carve out an equitable homeland for them out the existing nations of Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria. It would be the right thing to do but the right thing is very seldom the politically expedient thing to do. I pray that the Kurds receive justice.

Sketcher · Sep 25, 2017

mindlight said:
A war it seems the Kurds are fully prepared to fight on their own territory. Without American intervention i do not think a local power will triumph over them.

They'll lose some of the territorial gains that they have claimed since responding to ISIS. They can defend the hill country, but I wouldn't count on much more than that.

Sketcher · Sep 25, 2017

mindlight said:
While the Sunni and Shia populations of Iraq have largely been killing or expelling their Christian populations the Kurds provided a safe haven for them.

After they disarmed the Christians. And they were the persecutors until just a few decades ago.

Alicia Schout · Sep 28, 2017

mindlight said:
Iraq was born after the first world war from an amalgamation of 3 Ottoman Turk provinces which the British conquered. A kurdish one, a sunni one and a Shia one. The British like the Ottomans before them used the Sunni Arabs to rule the place but ultimately found it not worth the hassle. The newly independent countries monarchy and later Baathist party were drawn from the Sunnis. The Kurds like the Shias were an oppressed population for much of the last 100 years. After Gulf War 1 and then 2 they achieved a degree of autonomy which they have continued to enjoy even after the Americans have left. The Peshmerga have distinguished themselves fighting ISIS and defending their country. They have become a nation in all but name.

While the Sunni and Shia populations of Iraq have largely been killing or expelling their Christian populations the Kurds provided a safe haven for them. While the Sunni Arabs spawned the horrors and evil of ISIS the Shia Iraqi government is demonstrably corrupt and incompetent but the Kurds have prospered and governed more wisely. They do not want to be part of a Sunni Caliphate or A corrupt and incompetent Shia state. Iran wants them to remain a part of a Shia dominated Iraq and fears what independence might encourage in its own Kurdish population. Turkey also has a large Kurdish population. They tend to regard Kurds as being Communist terrorists (PKK) and have no desire to see a Kurdish state. It is not really in America or Britains interest to oppose Kurdish independence but they have done so because of the sensibilities of key allies in the region. This is stupid cause the Kurds are the best friends we have in the region. Far better than the Turks who under Erdogan have their own agenda and ambitions

I have prayed for Kurdish independence for more than 30 years. But the character of that independence is important. I want this new country to be one of those rare places in the middle east where freedom and a church could thrive. For their own sake the Kurds must build an outward looking country or descend into the same inter tribal conflicts that consume much of the rest of the region

Thanks for your short and spicy explanation. It's our obligation as a christian to pray for good governments throughout the world. Why? So that we as christian can be free to serve and worship our Lord. Any governments that oppressed nations or other nations are in opposition to the will of the Lord. He has given us a free will to serve and worship Him. Look at Haïti. The are free from their oppression from the France domination, but because of voodoo this Haïtian nation has a curse. We don't want to be cursed but blessed. In the book of deuteronomy chapter 27 and 28 you can read about the curses and blessings.

mindlight · Sep 28, 2017

JackRT said:
When the British and the French, mostly the British, divided up the remnants of the collapsed Ottoman Empire following WW1, they did so without any consideration of tribal and religious loyalties and then installed their own puppet leaders. The Kurds were ignored in all this and they should not have been. It will now be next to impossible to carve out an equitable homeland for them out the existing nations of Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria. It would be the right thing to do but the right thing is very seldom the politically expedient thing to do. I pray that the Kurds receive justice.

Concessions from Iran or Turkey are unlikely to a new Kurdish state. This is why the Kurdish state must be more than just the hill country and should include Kirkuk. In that case it will not need the Turkish and Iranian areas. It would also be expedient for the Shia government in Iraq to give up mainly Sunni areas it has difficulty governing to the mainly Sunni Kurds.

mindlight · Sep 28, 2017

Sketcher said:
After they disarmed the Christians. And they were the persecutors until just a few decades ago.

There has been a Christian Kurdish presence since the apostle Andrew started the church there. There was a Christian Kurdish ruler, Christians have historically fought side by side with their Kurdish Muslim brothers. Today there have even been conversions to Christianity in Kurdistan indicating an openness and freedom barely visible elsewhere in the Middle East. It is not a perfect place to be a Christian but the trends are right and we should bless them for that.

Nithavela · Sep 28, 2017

Balkanization is always a painfull process. But it might be a welcome change if countries emerged according to cultures and not according to some lines drawn in the sand by british generals 2 centuries ago.

mindlight · Sep 29, 2017

Nithavela said:
Balkanization is always a painfull process. But it might be a welcome change if countries emerged according to cultures and not according to some lines drawn in the sand by british generals 2 centuries ago.

These were not arbitrary lines drawn by the British. The Mesopotamian area conquered by the British was basically of 3 Ottoman provinces. The Turks had incorporated the Kurdish province on ethnic lines as a part of their Ottoman empire. So originally the Kurds existed as unique provinces within the structure of the Ottoman empire. What is arbitrary here is the attempt by the Turks to absorb the Kurdish territory into the new post Ottoman concept of Turkey and the abolition of the Ottoman provincial system within Turkeys borders. This is why Erdogan gets so angry as their potentially large loss of territory to a new Kurdish republic and this does not fit his neo-Ottoman expansionary agenda.

Blue bits are Kurdish

Cedid_Atlas_(Middle_East)_1803

mindlight
Sep 29, 2017

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan

Douger · Oct 2, 2017

The Kurds are not the Tutsi of the Middle East. Without foreign support, they'll fail at trying to seize territory from Iraq or other countries as part of an independent Kurdistan.
Their abuse of arabs and other minorites under their power adds to the doom of their efforts.
IMO, should have been made independent when the US, UK, etc. conquered Iraq back in 2003.

DennisTate · Oct 9, 2017

Alicia Schout said:
Well, I don't know much of the history of the Kurds. I am interested to get some information and also background historical information. But regardless of what these are people just as we are. God's creation. I pray that they will be able to live in peace and have a land/territory of their own as a nation. We should treat others as we would like to be treated. This is in accordance to God's word. We should pray for the
governments of the UK, Europe, the US, Irak, Iran and Turkey to govern with peace , respect for different nations, love and compassion and not to oppress strangers or other nations or even their own peoples. We have authority through Jesus to cast down all strongholds. To bind the strongman. To claim the victory because of what Jesus did for us on the cross. He disarmed all powers and principality. There should be a group prayer for the nation.

Well said!

From what I have read about the Kurdish people over the last few decades I agree that they need their own nation if they are to be able to defend themselves from neighbours who want to make slaves out of them.

MyOwnSockPuppet · Oct 9, 2017

I think the main objection that the UK has (and probably the US too) is that they don't think that the borders of a newly independent Kurdistan would (regardless of the intentions of those establishing it) stop at the borders of what is now northern Iraq.

There's a fair chunk of south-east Turkey with a Kurdish majority that is verging on outright insurgency (that's the same Turkey that has a 65 year old mutual defence treaty with both the US and the UK), as well as a chunk of western Iran that isn't much better.

It's realpolitik I think, there's no real sensible objecion except it really really destabilising the entire region yet again.

Kurdistan!!

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