23rd of September 2017 start of the tribulation? Today?

Andrew4jesus said:

sounds to me like a lot of Christians don't really believe in the tribulation? jesus didn't tell us a set date of his arrival but there are many signs that were left for us to keep our eyes open for. Our messiah is close, I can feel it, my name is Andrew after all, I have a history of recognising Our lord when I see him.

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Well, there are legitimate, true Christians on all sides of the viewpoints of the end times.

The only thing that is required for true Christians to believe is that Jesus will one day return.

Some legitimate Christians believe in the rapture. Others do not. Some believe in a pre-tribulation idea. Some do not.

Some believe in a tribulation that all people will go through, some believe in one that only those who do not believe in Christ will go through (because those who do believe in Him, they believe will be raptured before it starts), some believe that everyone will experience some of the tribulation, etc.

Some believe that all the signs that Jesus was referring to have already happened because they see them as having been fulfilled when the second temple was destroyed. Some believe that it is a future end of the world signs. Some see them as both.

People have believed that Jesus was coming back soon for two thousand years. Jesus will return, yes, but we don't know when. It could be another 20, 50, 80, 100, 250, 1000, 2000, 4000, etc. We don't know when.

And as to hurricanes and cyclones, please get some perspective, guys.

The 1900 Galveston hurricane killed about 12,000 people.

Elsewhere in the world, the 1970 Bangladesh cyclone killed 500,000 people.

Nothing this year has been worse than those.

redleghunter said:

Wow have seen a lot on today being something significant.

Have seen "end of the world" also "rapture" and some just strongly implying today would be another "significant sign."

This all started about two years ago with the blood moons.
I inquired with one Messianic I know and he believes the multiple blood moons helped his community and others determine the proper calendar which was lost after 70 AD and the temple destruction. What the 23rd and the stars mean even he is scratching his head why so many picked this date as something significant.

So the rock called Earth keeps spinning today.

What did Jesus tell us to do until He comes for us? Preach the Gospel and make disciples.

So the mission continues the clock still running. Let's get to work.

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It has to do with the planets aligning. Jupiter retrograded into Venus 9 months ago, and was to emerge on the 23rd. Rev. 12 talks of the woman having a man child. Interesting note, you couldn't see the stars in America, but you can in Jerusalem.

Andrew4jesus said:

could this date be the start of the tribulations?

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The weather is very nice this morning!

Aimz said:

I was interested too have you come across Scott Clarke on YouTube? He seems to be biblically based and sound yet knowledgable and not scare mongering.

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Checking Chicago....things OK there today.

Andrew4jesus said:

could this date be the start of the tribulations?

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I think that tribulations have started ever since the Lord ascended.

1stcenturylady said:

Interesting note, you couldn't see the stars in America, but you can in Jerusalem.

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You couldn't see them anywhere (except from space), because you're talking about stars close to the Sun in the sky, and you can't see stars in the daytime.

23rd of September 2017 start of the tribulation? Today?

Andrew4jesus said:

could this date be the start of the tribulations?

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Guess not.......
Today 09/24/2017

Kindgdom Bible Studies Revelation Series Part 1

1Co 13:8
Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

...........Countless interpreters have tried to "decode" the book from a historical perspective to find all the major world events of the past 1900 years. Others interpret it more literally as a handbook for predicting the cataclysmic events that will bring the final wrath of God and the end of the world.
The claims of Christian groups from the early church to the present — that the Revelation pinpoints the events, personalities, and time periods of "the end" — have all failed.
This should be a caution to believers for using the book of Revelation as a predictive handbook. Other people’s interpretation of the book of Revelation is based on the "Pan Theory" — it’s all going to pan out in the end! Beloved brethren, the fact is, it’s not panning out the way the end-time prognosticators are projecting!

..................................................

Andrew4jesus said:

I'm not just talking about USA the whole world is beginning to divide, look to the left and look to the right the division has begun

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Where does it say division is something we should look for in the bible as being a marker of the end specifically?

Radagast said:

You couldn't see them anywhere (except from space), because you're talking about stars close to the Sun in the sky, and you can't see stars in the daytime.

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Silly, the nighttime sky in Jerusalem. When Jupiter emerged, it was daytime here, but not in Jerusalem, or do you think it is daytime everywhere at the same time?

1stcenturylady said:

Silly, the nighttime sky in Jerusalem. When Jupiter emerged, it was daytime here, but not in Jerusalem, or do you think it is daytime everywhere at the same time?

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Good catch LOL......
It is now 8:49 PM there.

Anyone read the rather bizarre happenings that went on around Jerusalem/Judea before 70ad? Whoa!

Luk 21:11
great shakings also in every place and famines and pestilences there shall be;
fearful things also, and great signs from heaven there shall be;

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The Destruction Of JERUSALEM
An Absolute and Irresistible PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY:

[6] - Josephus has collected the chief of these portents together, and introduces his account by a reflection on the strangeness of that infatuation, which could induce his countrymen to give credit to impostors, and unfounded reports, whilst they disregarded the divine admonitions, confirmed, as he asserts they Were, by the following extraordinary signs :

1. "A meteor, resembling a sword, [7] hung over Jerusalem during one whole year."
This could not be a comet, for it was stationary, and was visible for twelve successive months. A sword too, though a fit emblem for destruction, but ill represents a comet.

LittleLambofJesus said:

Good catch LOL......
It is now 8:49 PM there.

Anyone read the rather bizarre happenings that went on around Jerusalem/Judea before 70ad? Whoa!

Luk 21:11
great shakings also in every place and famines and pestilences there shall be;
fearful things also, and great signs from heaven there shall be;

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The Destruction Of JERUSALEM
An Absolute and Irresistible PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY:

[6] - Josephus has collected the chief of these portents together, and introduces his account by a reflection on the strangeness of that infatuation, which could induce his countrymen to give credit to impostors, and unfounded reports, whilst they disregarded the divine admonitions, confirmed, as he asserts they Were, by the following extraordinary signs :

1. "A meteor, resembling a sword, [7] hung over Jerusalem during one whole year."
This could not be a comet, for it was stationary, and was visible for twelve successive months. A sword too, though a fit emblem for destruction, but ill represents a comet.

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Wow, I never heard of that before. I believe something began yesterday, and I wonder if we will ever know what it was. I'd like to hear Jonathan Cahn's take on it.

redleghunter said:

It's Biblical. The timing is what is debated.

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It's actually not Biblical. Where are your verses that support it?

Andrew4jesus said:

Were we not told to watch for signs by Jesus ?

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well clearly the signs are here...earthquakes in diverse places.... wars....divorces...murder...sin....government against religion. But some of these signs have been here for a bit so it's hard to tell, just keep seeking God and stay focused...but if you're asking if Christians or believers in general believe the times are now then the answer to that is yes.

Andrew4jesus said:

Pretty sure I didn't say the world would come to an end just the start of the end times

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It was over 90 today. Everyone I know made it through.
I suggest bottled water to make it through the tough days ahead.

AvaLynn said:

It's actually not Biblical. Where are your verses that support it?

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1 Thessalonians 4: NKJV

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive andremain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The operative is "caught up." Which by the Greek lexicon is ἁρπάζω harpazō.

The use of "rapture" comes from the Latin Vulgate rapio, which means to seize or snatch in relation to an ecstasy of spirit or the actual removalfrom one place to another.

Where did the term 'rapture' come from?

In context to the passage in the Latin Vulgate:

deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

Some see this event as pre tribulation, some mid tribulation, some end of the tribulation and some the same as the Resurrection.

It's a matter of timing but clearly as I pointed out, Biblical.

Most of the very early church theologians like Irenaeus saw the "caught up" some time after the tribulation but before the Resurrection. This would be the historic millennial view which was rejected later in the 4th century.

In Against Heresies Irenaeus said the following:

1. In the previous books I have set forth the causes for which God permitted these things to be made, and have pointed out that all such have been created for the benefit of that human nature which is saved, ripening for immortality that which is [possessed] of its own free will and its own power, and preparing and rendering it more adapted for eternal subjection to God. And therefore the creation is suited to [the wants of] man; for man was not made for its sake, but creation for the sake of man. Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance— in fact, as nothing; Isaiah 40:15 so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. (Against Heresies Book V. Chapter 29.1)

Some interpret the bolded above as a "caught up" at the end of tribulation and some before. Yet this church doctor did believe such an event would occur and does not link it to the Resurrection. The early early fathers believed in a physical millennial Kingdom.

One of the earliest teachings post Revelation is the Didache. The last chapter gives us a peek at what the early church believed about the end times.

CHAPTER 16
Warning that the end is at hand

1 "Watch" over your life: "let your lamps" be not quenched "and your loins" be not ungirded, but be "ready," for ye know not "the hour in which our Lord cometh." 2 But be frequently gathered together seeking the things which are profitable for your souls, for the whole time of your faith shall not profit you except ye be found perfect at the last time; 3 for in the last days the false prophets and the corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall change to hate; 4 for as lawlessness increaseth they shall hate one another and persecute and betray, and then shall appear the deceiver of the world as a Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders and the earth shall be given over into his hands and he shall commit iniquities which have never been since the world began.

5 Then shall the creation of mankind come to the fiery trial and "many shall be offended" and be lost, but "they who endure" in their faith "shall be saved" by the curse itself. 6 And "then shall appear the signs" of the truth. First the sign spread out in Heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet, and thirdly the resurrection of the dead: 7 but not of all the dead, but as it was said, "The Lord shall come and all his saints with him." 8 Then shall the world "see the Lord coming on the clouds of Heaven."

Didache. The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (translation Kirsopp Lake).

Notice the author shows three events.

1. The sign spread out in Heaven
2. The sign of the Trumpet (1 Thessalonians 4)
3. Resurrection of the dead.

The author goes on to ensure the reader knows not the Resurrection of all as the saints will come with the Lord at His second coming.

Sometimes refreshing to read what the early Christians actually believed and what I posted above they deemed "Biblical" as it was taught by the apostles.

1stcenturylady said:

Silly, the nighttime sky in Jerusalem. When Jupiter emerged, it was daytime here, but not in Jerusalem, or do you think it is daytime everywhere at the same time?

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When it's night-time, the sun is not in the sky. When the sun is not in the sky, you cannot see the stars near the sun, because they are under the horizon.

When the sun is in the sky, you still cannot see the stars near the sun, because the sun is too bright.

Jupiter would have been visible on the western horizon just after sunset, through the twilight glow (but probably only visible outside the cities). The stars of Virgo would not have been visible. This would be true for both America and Israel -- the location makes no difference.

Andrew4jesus said:

could this date be the start of the tribulations?

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No.