David & Bath-sheba

rrobsr

Active Member
Jan 9, 2017
172
88
73
Julian, CA
Visit site
✟26,828.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acts 8:3
As for Saul, he made havoc of the church, entering every house, and dragging off men and women, committing them to prison.

I wonder, but likely some died in those prisons. And some starved, and some suffered terrible abuses.

Some absolutely did die for their believing.

Acts 26:10,

Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.​
 
  • Agree
Reactions: sdowney717
Upvote 0

rrobsr

Active Member
Jan 9, 2017
172
88
73
Julian, CA
Visit site
✟26,828.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Just to nitpick, but Christians weren't going into the arena during Saul's oppressor period.

That's actually a good nitpick. The scriptures don't say anything about an arena. But there is this:

Acts 26:10,

Which thing I (Paul) also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.
It doesn't say exactly how or where they they were put to death, just that they were put to death for their belief in such a strange (to them - 1 Cor 2:14) God as that of the father of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Sammy-San

Newbie
May 23, 2013
9,020
848
✟104,579.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Actually, David was a pretty sorry king.

David was singularly responsible for the greatest disaster that ever struck the kingdom short of the Babylonian Captivity. David overruled his general and all his captains, obstinately questioning God's protection of Israel and thus causing the death of 70,000 fighting men (plus others uncounted). That was more men than the kingdom had ever lost in all their wars combined. Nobody was responsible for that but David, and all his military leaders knew it.

David was responsible for two rebellions caused by nothing but his own failure to handle his own family (notice that much later, such a man would not even be permitted to be an elder in the Church).

Good, loyal men died, wives were made widows, children were made orphans... to protect David from his own follies.

Even in the end, scripture is careful to note that the murderous drama of his succession was caused directly by David himself knowingly failing to prepare for Solomon to take the throne instead of the expected elder son.

As a warrior, David was great. As a king and father, he was a failure.

What about him fighting in wars?

To me, the idea of killing people in battle, not just the fact that some are conscripted but the fact that the people who die lose their future chance of ever getting saved, just for the selfish temporal motive land or some other motive, seems terrible.

When A Sinner Goes To Hell. . .
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,273
20,267
US
✟1,475,501.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The king's authority does not supersede God's authority. David understood that.

David might (or might not) have fully understood that (look back at the "counting the troops" incident), but it's very likely the people didn't fully understand it.

If David had fully understood it, he would not have called Bath-sheba to his palace. If the people fully understood it, they'd have told him, "No, king" on a number of occasions.

But remember that the role of "king" was not fully defined in the law. Most people probably didn't know where on a command-by-command basis where the king's authority stopped--and most importantly, if the king knew where his authority stopped.
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If David had fully understood it, he would not have called Bath-sheba to his palace. If the people fully understood it, they'd have told him, "No, king" on a number of occasions.
Understanding it and following it are 2 different things. Self-deception is yet another.

When confronted by Nathan he certainly understood it and repented on the spot.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,273
20,267
US
✟1,475,501.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Understanding it and following it are 2 different things. Self-deception is yet another.

When confronted by Nathan he certainly understood it and repented on the spot.

"Full" understanding would mean understanding it all the time. From the time David saw Bath-sheba to the time he ordered Uriah's assassination, I feel certain at some point his conscience told him he was in the wrong before Nathan had to tell him.

If not...he was certainly far from God. But I don't think he was ever so far from God that his conscience was seared. I think like most of us most of the time, we know what God wants us to do...we just don't want to do it.
 
Upvote 0

Sammy-San

Newbie
May 23, 2013
9,020
848
✟104,579.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
The king's authority does not supersede God's authority. David understood that.

What does that have to do with this fact?

Even the fact that his used his authority to put her in a very bad place, he couldn't use the fact that he got her into that die either way situation to save her life.
 
Upvote 0

Sammy-San

Newbie
May 23, 2013
9,020
848
✟104,579.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Yes. People today--particularly Americans--don't understand what power is.

And David called one of the young men and said, “Go, cut him down.” So he struck him and he died. 2 Samuel

And David commanded his young men, and they killed them and cut off their hands and feet and hanged them beside the pool at Hebron. 2 Samuel 4

So David sent someone to inquire about her....
David sent messengers to get her....
David sent orders to Joab....


In other words, the king's power was unquestioned.

And when all the officers of the army joined the general to dissuade David from a nationally disasterous command:

The king's word, however, overruled Joab and the army commanders; so they left the presence of the king to enroll the fighting men of Israel. 2 Samuel 24

The king still prevailed.

How did the fact that David forced her prevented her from claiming innocence? What You Need to Know About Bathsheba - The Junia Project

she cannot appeal to the law to protect her as an innocent victim for it is the king who has violated her.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,273
20,267
US
✟1,475,501.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How did the fact that David forced her prevented her from claiming innocence? What You Need to Know About Bathsheba - The Junia Project

David's story is apparently that there was no intercourse between them at all.

But as I said before, there is little modern understanding of the power of ancient kings--whether a woman's accusation against one would have gotten any hearing whatsoever. Moreover, in David's time there was still little protocol surrounding the crown--they were all rather still playing it by ear.

What was clear is that when the king said, "Kill that man," the man was immediately killed, no question asked.

Maybe she could have tried throwing herself upon the altar at the tabernacle, but as we later see with Joab, it was within the king's power to slay even someone at the altar.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Then there is Paul. He wasn't a very nice guy at first either. His number one mission in life was rounding up Christians, both men and women, and bring them back to face lions in the arena and such. Not a good way to die. Horrific actually. He was absolutely fanatic about it too.

But surprise, surprise, God forgave him also.
Interesting post.
I could almost view the Saul shown in Acts as similar to that of Saul in 1 Samuel.
Even got the same name until his name got changed to Paul.......

1 Samuel 19:
1 Saul told his son Jonathan and all the attendants to kill David. But Jonathan had taken a great liking to David 2 and warned him, “My father Saul is looking for a chance to kill you. Be on your guard tomorrow morning; go into hiding and stay there

Acts 7:58
and they cast Stephen out of the city and stoned him.
And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.

Acts 8:1
Now Saul was consenting to his death.
At that time a great persecution arose against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.

3 As for Saul, he made havoc of the church, entering every house, and dragging off men and women, committing them to prison.
9:1Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest

Isa 22:22
The key of the house of David I will lay on His shoulder;
So He shall open, and no one shall shut; And He shall shut, and no one shall open.

Rev 3:7
“And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, ‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens”:[fn]


....................................................
upload_2017-9-22_15-40-11.jpeg
 
Upvote 0

Sammy-San

Newbie
May 23, 2013
9,020
848
✟104,579.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
David's story is apparently that there was no intercourse between them at all.

But as I said before, there is little modern understanding of the power of ancient kings--whether a woman's accusation against one would have gotten any hearing whatsoever. Moreover, in David's time there was still little protocol surrounding the crown--they were all rather still playing it by ear.

What was clear is that when the king said, "Kill that man," the man was immediately killed, no question asked.

Maybe she could have tried throwing herself upon the altar at the tabernacle, but as we later see with Joab, it was within the king's power to slay even someone at the altar.

So why did David care if Uriah knew?
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
39,273
20,267
US
✟1,475,501.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So why did David care if Uriah knew?

Uriah, as a male and a general, could have entered a charge. Moreover, Bath-Sheba's father was also one of David's generals and Bath-Sheba's grandfather was one of David's advisers. All three of them would have been involved in that charge.
 
Upvote 0