Adam & Eve Materialized on Evolved, Populated Earth

The Genesis story deals with the creation of meaning and purpose on earth, not with the ball of dirt. Everything I know suggests that there were pre-humans already existing, and Adam and Eve are the first (many) who conceived that we are children of God.

Colter said:

Thanks. There is lots of symbolism to work with.

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Yes, I try to stay close to the Jewish teaching, figuring they were closer to the language and to the event than we are, but as augmented by other ancient writings.

Look at Gen. 1:26 (creation of man - humans, or perhaps hominids... human-kind) and then look at Gen. 2:7. In light of the fact that the second chapter of Genesis distinctly begins with a statement that creation was complete ("Thus the heavens and the earth were finished...") it is clear to me that these two verses refer to distinct, separate events. I've come to believe that the Genesis 1 reference of the creation of man refers to pre-Adam man which specifically was soulless man. In Genesis 2:7 God breathed life (breath of God in other contexts support this idea) into man and he became a living soul.

If these are two separate events, it paints a picture to me of man evolving from the earth (more on this later), and then at some point of maturity in human's evolution, God breathes a soul into it, and Adam becomes the self-aware, God-aware being that we all are today. This idea aligns so much better to the symbolism of New Testament salvation and even nature itself.

What I find interesting is that even the most traditional, orthodoxy Christians have no issue believing that God himself chose to manifest Himself on this earth in bodily form using natural means (i.e. conception, implantation, full 9 months gestation in Mary's womb and natural birth) yet we have a hard time thinking that the earth brought us forth (dust of the earth = the substance of the earth?).

What evolutionism does is remove original sin as well as mans sin nature from being a by-product of disobedience into an unbiblical realm of thought.
To accept evolutionism much of the bible needs to be rewritten.

The quote from above is unbiblical "at some point of maturity in human's evolution, God breathes a soul into it, and Adam becomes the self-aware"
The bible doesn't teach this. The bible teaches that sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned. Romans 5:12 instructs us on how sin came to spread. What is written there doesn't say a population of pre-humans evolved and God breathed a soul into the population.
Romans continues with ...For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,...then states it again....For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man,...then states it again.....Therefore, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men,...and again with ...For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners. Romans 5 has to be completely re-written.

Could it be that as animals have no capacity to be aware of sin and live through their physical instincts for survival that humans were once this way and it wasnt until an act of God that made them like God however this happened I think it is more to do with their spirituality than their physicality as there are many creatures which are similar to humans in their physical makeups. From that time on humans in this case the symbolic Adam and Eve were conscious of themselves and of God. It is interesting that it took that consciousness and free will to be able to make a choice about disobeying God and from that time sin entered the world and Adam and Eve (all humans) took on the sinful nature. This makes sense in that there were other human creatures around at the time of Adam and Eve. Perhaps those who did not originate from Adam and Eve were still of the physical animal like humans. Doesn't it mentions in the bible something about the sons of God and the sons of man and them marrying at one stage.

Colter said:

Cain and able tend "flocks" and "fields", how much food does a family need to work for in a tropical paradise??? They are making contributions to a religious order???

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Adam and Eve were kicked out of Paradise the way back was barred with flaming swords.

Colter said:

the Genesis creation account of Adam and Eves

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..describes the formation of Paradise.
Of which Adam and Eve were removed from.

Colter said:

* As fragmented as the story is that the Hebrews were putting into the written word, we might consider that it was a very old story that had been carried by oral traditions through many cultures, wars etc.

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In the first few decades of the last century a great deal of research went into trying to understand oral traditions while they were still around to study. This study was greatly assisted by the use of newly invented sound recording machines. They discovered that the storytellers work from a 'framework' but tailor the narrative to suit the needs and moods of the audience at the time. A story is never told the same way twice but the framework itself remains intact. Once such a story is committed to print it becomes locked in place for all time. Moreover once that has happened it becomes virtually impossible to discern what is framework and what is the story teller's own variation on the theme. This is what has happened in both the Jewish and Christian scriptures. What we are reading are very human documents.

One theory that I have been musing on is that Theistic evolution happened in accordance with anthropological evidence and Homo homo sapiens were evolved with the guidance of evolution. Towards the end of the process God literally created a paradise on Earth that was almost in another dimension, a more spiritual place of perfect harmony and as it says, 'the tree of life' was present and afterwards a flaming sword guarded the entrance so this implies to me that we are talking about a different kind of reality, not the purely the physical reality that we inhabit. Adam and Eve had heavenly bodies like those referred to when the resurrection comes and a new heaven on earth is created. Adam and Eve were the first 'Man' and 'Woman', with a divine spark and they then bred the chosen people of Israel.

This is in keeping with Genesis if you take 'man' and his creation as more than just the evolved homo-sapien in 'animal' form and see God's creation of the Jewish people as the first divine people that were then to bring the knowledge of God to the 'Gentiles' also translated 'pagans' who could in a sense be made from evolution.

This theory is a way of me reconciling my firm belief in evolution with my reverence of the Bible and my belief in its veracity. One big flaw is that non-jews are then in a way more animal than a jew and speaking as a non-jew this is a bit of a downer but I believe that God can make anything divine that he chooses therefore Jew and Gentile, when reconciled with God through faith in Jesus Christ, are equally divine.

I apologise to any that find this theory offensive, as I say it is a theory and not something I am wholly tied to. I would be interested to hear any thoughts or rebukes?

Colter said:

If we consider old earth evolution as an established fact

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Why should that be concidered?
Can you show a fact of evolution?
By fact not a dog turning into another dog, or a fish ditto, or a bird ditto, but creature A turning into creature b.

Yes, evolution is not a fact, it is a theory. The facts point to the theory.

Colter said:

Yes, within the fossil record are the remains of life from the most primitive in the earliest strata, up to the latest.

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None of which show evolution.
There isn't a scientist any where who is prepared to publicly argue that fosils 'prove' evolution.

Colter said:

If we consider old earth evolution as an established fact and return to the Genesis creation account of Adam and Eves abrupt materialization on earth, we can view the assumptions of Christendom differently.

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There's no assumptions in Christianity Based on the Bible, the Word Of YHWH.

Yes, if false ideas are accepted, then false teachers and false prophets thrive and have plenty of ears to itch that will follow them,
but
there no need and no reason to, when trusting YHWH by faith in Jesus.

Colter said:

With religion superstition can be greater than obvious fact. But it is possible that there were many creation events that just happen to grow in diversity and complexity up until the man creation event.

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YHWH is ALIVE , not religious. Not a religious event. Not happy with mankind which is all evil and full of wickedness.

Thus, YHWH exposes the totally fabricated and false teachings.

Colter said:

The revelation that Adam and Eve, 2 incarnate celestial beings who were to be the worlds new visible spiritual administrators, arrived on a previously evolved, populated earth that had already fallen into sin under the previous administration, makes more sense when considering the totality of data. We can see this in both Genesis and science.

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Sorry, no. Not in Genesis, and not in truth nor in true honest science.
Not at all according to YHWH.

Tolworth John said:

None of which show evolution.
There isn't a scientist any where who is prepared to publicly argue that fosils 'prove' evolution.

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Here we go again with "proof". In science a theory is as good as it gets. There is no such thing as proving a theory because to do so would require that we know everything that the theory touches on and that is obviously impossible. New information can and has resulted in existing theories having to be either modified or discarded completely. The theory of evolution is based on enormous empirical evidence and explanatory power. In 150 years nothing has seriously challenged the theory of evolution in spite of concerted efforts to do so. Taken on a worldwide basis, of all the scientists working in the earth and life sciences only 1/10th of 1% are not evolutionists.