Faustinas prayers

PittBullMom · Sep 6, 2017

This is something that is always on my mind ever since I learned orthodox prayers. Not sure where this post belongs, but it is a debatable topic. There's no debate section in the catholic forums between other faiths...so...

There is this saint, Faustina kowalska, who started the whole divine mercy chaplet and feast day. She claimed to have seen ans spoken to Jesus himself over a period of time. As I was learning orthodox prayers I came across:

Holy mighty, holy immortal, have mercy on us. x3. My jaw dropped. In the divine mercy chaplet, at the end of the chaplet, the prayer is... Holy mighty one, holy immortal one, have mercy on us and on the whole world. And it's said three times.

Can anyone explain the coincidence?

anna ~ grace · Sep 7, 2017

I don't feel that it's a coincidence. Orthodox posters may remark that she must have heard those prayers at some point, and her mind incorporated the prayers into her chaplet.

But if one believes that Saint Faustina truly did meet and interact with and hear from Christ, it's not a huge leap that an Eastern prayer should wind up as part of a Catholic nun's devotion.

~Anastasia~ · Sep 7, 2017

It should actually be

Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal
Have mercy on us (x3)

(That's the first line of my signature, written in Greek)

I listen to EWTN sometimes in the car if I don't load a podcast, and I've heard the Divine mercy chaplet. I don't know the history, but I think the Roman Church should have shared the history of the thrice-holy before she separated from us, so I wasn't surprised to hear it incorporated into Catholic prayers.

I'd actually be more surprised if it was nowhere to be found, because it was important to the Church, since before the Catholics became Catholics. I'm pretty sure the Oriental Orthodox use it as well, so it predates the Schism around Chalcedon.

ArmyMatt · Sep 7, 2017

yeah, the Trisagion (thrice Holy hymn) to the Trinity is something that goes back to St Athanasius the Great, probably earlier, which is long before the Schism.

plus, we don't restrict God in any way, so if He decided to speak to a Roman Catholic, He certainly can.

PittBullMom · Sep 7, 2017

I suppose I am in between two theories... One maybe Jesus was giving the saint a subtle hint, And Two, I question the validity of some saint's apparitions in the RC church.

ArmyMatt · Sep 7, 2017

PittBullMom said:
I suppose I am in between two theories... One maybe Jesus was giving the saint a subtle hint, And Two, I question the validity of some saint's apparitions in the RC church.

that's a good position to have

Maryslittleflower · Sep 15, 2017

Doesn't this prayer come from an early Church miracle? (I think someone heard Angels singing it?)

ArmyMatt · Sep 15, 2017

Maryslittleflower said:
Doesn't this prayer come from an early Church miracle? (I think someone heard Angels singing it?)

which prayer? if you mean the Thrice Holy, that one is from the OT

Maryslittleflower · Sep 15, 2017

ArmyMatt said:
which prayer? if you mean the Thrice Holy, that one is from the OT

Yes I mean that one, I didn't realize it's in the OT

I also read about a miracle about it where someone I think a child heard Angels singing it.. This would have been a long time ago

ArmyMatt · Sep 15, 2017

Maryslittleflower said:
Yes I mean that one, I didn't realize it's in the OT

I also read about a miracle about it where someone I think a child heard Angels singing it.. This would have been a long time ago

could very well be, that stuff does happen from time to time

Mary of Bethany · Sep 15, 2017

Maryslittleflower said:
Yes I mean that one, I didn't realize it's in the OT

I also read about a miracle about it where someone I think a child heard Angels singing it.. This would have been a long time ago

Yes -I found this on a parish website:

In 433A.D. when Saint Proclus was Patriarch of Constantinople the city was evacuated due to a series of earthquakes. The citizens established campsites in the outskirts of town and were constantly praying for God to bring an end to this tribulation. As soon as the earth would start shaking they would pray with the words, "Lord Have Mercy." During one prayer service, a boy from the crowd was snatched up into the air by an unseen force and carried up to such a height that he was no longer to be seen by human eyes. Then, whole and unharmed, the child was lowered to the ground and he reported that he heard and he saw the angels glorifying God singing: "Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal." All the people began to sing this Trisagion Prayer, adding to it the refrain, "Have mercy on us!" Then the earthquakes stopped.

The Orthodox Church still sings this prayer in divine services to this very day.

anna ~ grace · Sep 16, 2017

Mary of Bethany said:
Yes -I found this on a parish website:

In 433A.D. when Saint Proclus was Patriarch of Constantinople the city was evacuated due to a series of earthquakes. The citizens established campsites in the outskirts of town and were constantly praying for God to bring an end to this tribulation. As soon as the earth would start shaking they would pray with the words, "Lord Have Mercy." During one prayer service, a boy from the crowd was snatched up into the air by an unseen force and carried up to such a height that he was no longer to be seen by human eyes. Then, whole and unharmed, the child was lowered to the ground and he reported that he heard and he saw the angels glorifying God singing: "Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal." All the people began to sing this Trisagion Prayer, adding to it the refrain, "Have mercy on us!" Then the earthquakes stopped.

The Orthodox Church still sings this prayer in divine services to this very day.

Yes, I read this on a Coptic forum once, Tasbeha.

buzuxi02 · Sep 21, 2017

The Trisagion was recited at the council of Chalcedon. Some say it predates to an Antiochan original. The Assyrians use it and I believe even the Anglicans use it.
In its most primitive form it's the angelic prayer sung by the angels in ( Isaiah 6:2-3). Hence "thrice-holy".

ArmyMatt · Sep 21, 2017

buzuxi02 said:
The Trisagion was recited at the council of Chalcedon. Some say it predates to an Antiochan original. The Assyrins use it and I believe even the Anglicans use it.
In its most primitive form it's the angelic prayer dung by the angels in ( Isaiah 6:2-3). Hence "thrice-holy".

I heard it also comes from Sts Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, when they were annointing Christ's Body, they began to doubt, and an angel appeared and said the Trisagion, to show one of Trinity was crucified. the Copts add that the saints responded with affirming Christ was crucified for us, which is why they have that addition and we don't. we say they just accepted Who He is and didn't say anything.

I am pretty sure most, if not all, Trisagion references from the earliest times were Trinitarian, which is why the phrase about the Thrice Holy being crucified was rejected by us.

buzuxi02 · Sep 22, 2017

ArmyMatt said:
I heard it also comes from Sts Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, when they were annointing Christ's Body, they began to doubt, and an angel appeared and said the Trisagion, to show one of Trinity was crucified. the Copts add that the saints responded with affirming Christ was crucified for us, which is why they have that addition and we don't. we say they just accepted Who He is and didn't say anything.

I am pretty sure most, if not all, Trisagion references from the earliest times were Trinitarian, which is why the phrase about the Thrice Holy being crucified was rejected by us.

Yes the Sts. Nikodemos and Joseph of Arimathea story is of Coptic origin (which i reject). Even St Athanasios recognized it as a Trinitarian hymn:

For what is nearer [God] than the Cherubim or the Seraphim? And yet they, not even seeing Him, nor standing on their feet, nor even with bare, but as it were with veiled faces, offer their praises, with untiring lips doing nought else but glorify the divine and ineffable nature with the Trisagion. And nowhere has any one of the divinely speaking prophets, men specially selected for such vision, reported to us that in the first utterance of the word Holy the voice is raised aloud, while in the second it is lower, but in the third, quite low,--and that consequently the first utterance denotes lordship, the second subordination, and the third marks a yet lower degree. But away with the folly of these haters of God and senseless men. For the Triad, praised, reverenced, and adored, is one and indivisible and without degrees (aschematistos). It is united without confusion, just as the Monad also is distinguished without separation. For the fact of those venerable living creatures (Isa. vi.; Rev. iv. 8) offering their praises three times, saying 'Holy, Holy, Holy,' proves that the Three Subsistences are perfect, just as in saying 'Lord,' they declare the One Essence. They then that depreciate the Only-begotten Son of God blaspheme God, defaming His perfection and accusing Him of imperfection, and render themselves liable to the severest chastisement. For he that blasphemes any one of the Subsistences shall have remission neither in this world nor in that which is to come. But God is able to open the eyes of their heart to contemplate the Sun of Righteousness, in order that coming to know Him whom they formerly set at nought, they may with unswerving piety of mind together with us glorify Him, because to Him belongs the kingdom, even to the Father Son and Holy Spirit, now and for ever. Amen.
St Athanasius the Great, IN ILLUD OMNIA - Full text, in English - 7

ArmyMatt · Sep 22, 2017

buzuxi02 said:
Yes the Sts. Nikodemos and Joseph of Arimathea story is of Coptic origin (which i reject). Even St Athanasios recognized it as a Trinitarian hymn:

For what is nearer [God] than the Cherubim or the Seraphim? And yet they, not even seeing Him, nor standing on their feet, nor even with bare, but as it were with veiled faces, offer their praises, with untiring lips doing nought else but glorify the divine and ineffable nature with the Trisagion. And nowhere has any one of the divinely speaking prophets, men specially selected for such vision, reported to us that in the first utterance of the word Holy the voice is raised aloud, while in the second it is lower, but in the third, quite low,--and that consequently the first utterance denotes lordship, the second subordination, and the third marks a yet lower degree. But away with the folly of these haters of God and senseless men. For the Triad, praised, reverenced, and adored, is one and indivisible and without degrees (aschematistos). It is united without confusion, just as the Monad also is distinguished without separation. For the fact of those venerable living creatures (Isa. vi.; Rev. iv. 8) offering their praises three times, saying 'Holy, Holy, Holy,' proves that the Three Subsistences are perfect, just as in saying 'Lord,' they declare the One Essence. They then that depreciate the Only-begotten Son of God blaspheme God, defaming His perfection and accusing Him of imperfection, and render themselves liable to the severest chastisement. For he that blasphemes any one of the Subsistences shall have remission neither in this world nor in that which is to come. But God is able to open the eyes of their heart to contemplate the Sun of Righteousness, in order that coming to know Him whom they formerly set at nought, they may with unswerving piety of mind together with us glorify Him, because to Him belongs the kingdom, even to the Father Son and Holy Spirit, now and for ever. Amen.
St Athanasius the Great, IN ILLUD OMNIA - Full text, in English - 7

I meant that I heard only their response is the Coptic thing, and most of the story is legit.

buzuxi02 · Sep 22, 2017

Yes I understood. Some orientals believe it originated from the Antiochans yet still pertaining mostly to the 2nd person of the Trinity in antiochan usage. While its plausible there is an Antiochan origin, it would still be a wholly Trinitarian hymn. St John Chrysostom an Antiochan native himself recognized the trisagion as a Trinitarian hymn, the Assyrians who inherited an eastern Antiochan tradition recognize it as trinitarian. St Proclus was a disciple of St John Chrysostom under whom it originated in Constantinople. And the Antiochan school made a distinction between the human and divine natures making the Coptic understanding refering to the person of the incarnate Christ unlikely.

ArmyMatt · Sep 22, 2017

buzuxi02 said:
Yes I understood. Some orientals believe it originated from the Antiochans yet still pertaining mostly to the 2nd person of the Trinity in antiochan usage. While its plausible there is an Antiochan origin, it would still be a wholly Trinitarian hymn. St John Chrysostom an Antiochan native himself recognized the trisagion as a Trinitarian hymn, the Assyrians who inherited an eastern Antiochan tradition recognize it as trinitarian. St Proclus was a disciple of St John Chrysostom under whom it originated in Constantinople. And the Antiochan school made a distinction between the human and divine natures making the Coptic understanding refering to the person of the incarnate Christ unlikely.

oh yeah, those are a lot of John of Damascus' arguments.

Maryslittleflower · Sep 25, 2017

Mary of Bethany said:
Yes -I found this on a parish website:

In 433A.D. when Saint Proclus was Patriarch of Constantinople the city was evacuated due to a series of earthquakes. The citizens established campsites in the outskirts of town and were constantly praying for God to bring an end to this tribulation. As soon as the earth would start shaking they would pray with the words, "Lord Have Mercy." During one prayer service, a boy from the crowd was snatched up into the air by an unseen force and carried up to such a height that he was no longer to be seen by human eyes. Then, whole and unharmed, the child was lowered to the ground and he reported that he heard and he saw the angels glorifying God singing: "Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal." All the people began to sing this Trisagion Prayer, adding to it the refrain, "Have mercy on us!" Then the earthquakes stopped.

The Orthodox Church still sings this prayer in divine services to this very day.

Thank you, that is what I was referring to! that is awesome

Faustinas prayers

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