Separate soul and spirit?? Ian Clayton

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I recently came across Ian Clayton. He teaches to use the sword of the spirit to separate your spirit from your soul. He says he seperated his and freed his Spirit to surround his body. He says it's great and we should do it.
I think if God wanted it that way he would have made it that way.
When I have used separating soul and spirit it has only been in a delivence setting to remove the evil spirits from the wounded soul. NEVER did it cross my mind to break apart out own soul and spirit.
I'd love your thoughts. Thank you!
 

mukk_in

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I recently came across Ian Clayton. He teaches to use the sword of the spirit to separate your spirit from your soul. He says he seperated his and freed his Spirit to surround his body. He says it's great and we should do it.
I think if God wanted it that way he would have made it that way.
When I have used separating soul and spirit it has only been in a delivence setting to remove the evil spirits from the wounded soul. NEVER did it cross my mind to break apart out own soul and spirit.
I'd love your thoughts. Thank you!
Illuminating indeed. I'll pray this for myself. Please keep sharing :).
 
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SkyWriting

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I recently came across Ian Clayton. He teaches to use the sword of the spirit to separate your spirit from your soul. He says he seperated his and freed his Spirit to surround his body. He says it's great and we should do it.
I think if God wanted it that way he would have made it that way.
When I have used separating soul and spirit it has only been in a delivence setting to remove the evil spirits from the wounded soul. NEVER did it cross my mind to break apart out own soul and spirit.
I'd love your thoughts. Thank you!

That's seems like an OK task.
Visualization is a very useful tool.
 
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Ron Gurley

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METHINKS: the "separating of soul and spirit" theory is NOT Biblical.

The Body/Soul combo "houses" Man's SPIRIT...AND...for believers only...the permanently indwelling God the Holy Spirit Who communes, comforts, and guides Man's SPIRIT into the will of God.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Or do you not know that your BODY (/SOUL) is a "temple"(house?) of (God) the Holy Spirit who is IN you,
whom you have from God (the Father), and that you are not your own?
For you have been bought with a price:(God the Son) therefore glorify God in your body.

SOUL (psyche) and SPIRIT (pneuma) are already "separate" and different at birth..

Hebrews 4:12
For the "word of God" is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword,
and piercing as far as the division of SOUL (PSYCHE) and SPIRIT (PNEUMA),
of both joints and marrow (BODY/SARX-SOMA),
and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the "heart".

of the heart...GREEK 2588...kardia...denotes the (INTERACTIVE) centre of all physical and spiritual life
b.of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence c.of the will and character (CONSCIENCE?)

And now for the LONG ANALYSIS:

Let's do some spiritual math!

God created Man in His own SPIRITUAL Image, Likeness (Genesis 1:26)

God has no BODY.(sarx) God has no SOUL.(psyche)

God is SPIRIT. (worship Him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH) John 4:24

Man has a Body/Soul combo which is mortal.
Man has a SPIRIT which is immortal.
Soul and SPIRIT are separate and different. SPIRIT "communes" with Soul.

Ecclesiastes 12...Remember God in Your Youth: AT DEATH, SPIRIT returns to God
Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near when you will say, “I have no delight in them”;...
For man goes to his ETERNAL home while mourners go about in the street....
7 then the dust (Body/Soul combo) will return to the earth as it was, (Genesis 2:7)
and the SPIRIT (breath of life) will return to God who gave it. (Genesis 1:26)
8 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “all is vanity!”

Isaiah 42:5 Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
Who gives breath to the people on it (Body/Soul)
And SPIRIT to those who walk in it,

Zechariah 12:1 ...Thus declares the Lord
who stretches out the heavens,
lays the foundation of the earth, and
forms the SPIRIT of man within him,

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your 1. SPIRIT and 2. SOUL and 3. BODY be preserved complete,
without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

THUS: ManKIND is divided into 3 parts:
1. SPIRIT = (~God conscience/ spiritual GOD Image = pneuma),
2. SOUL = (~psyche / personality / God CHARACTER~ Likeness = psyche) and
3. BODY = (~man's machine, controlled by brain bucket/CNS = sarx/SOMA)

The SOUL of Mankind (male and female) is also a DYNAMIC REACTION of its 3 parts:
1. MIND...the process of intellect...stored knowledge...its function is "thinking" / "reasoning"
2. WILL...your decision maker...your computer-reactor...your balancer
3. EMOTIONS...how you "feel"...natural reactions / intuitive responses

The Body of Man has its 5 senses / sensors (maybe 6?) to interact with environment....Biology 101

The Soul of Man is the "snowflake" individual personality which starts with some genetic predispositions and is generally developed in and around the brain "bucket" and CNS electrical conductions...Psychology 101

The Spirit of Man searches for its Creator,..Bible 101
At the time of salvation, the battle begins:
OLD MAN: BODY / SOUL against God ...VERSUS... NEW MAN: BODY / SOUL / Indwelling God The Holy SPIRIT.

Jewish tradition (?) believed that you:
1. KNOW in your "heart"...Spirit / conscience
2. FEEL in your "gut"...emotions
3. DECIDE in your "head"/brain...mind
 
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METHINKS: the "separating of soul and spirit" theory is NOT Biblical.

The Body/Soul combo "houses" Man's SPIRIT...AND...for believers only...the permanently indwelling God the Holy Spirit Who communes, comforts, and guides Man's SPIRIT into the will of God.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Or do you not know that your BODY (/SOUL) is a "temple"(house?) of (God) the Holy Spirit who is IN you,
whom you have from God (the Father), and that you are not your own?
For you have been bought with a price:(God the Son) therefore glorify God in your body.

SOUL (psyche) and SPIRIT (pneuma) are already "separate" and different at birth..

Hebrews 4:12
For the "word of God" is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword,
and piercing as far as the division of SOUL (PSYCHE) and SPIRIT (PNEUMA),
of both joints and marrow (BODY/SARX-SOMA),
and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the "heart".

of the heart...GREEK 2588...kardia...denotes the (INTERACTIVE) centre of all physical and spiritual life
b.of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence c.of the will and character (CONSCIENCE?)

And now for the LONG ANALYSIS:

Let's do some spiritual math!

God created Man in His own SPIRITUAL Image, Likeness (Genesis 1:26)

God has no BODY.(sarx) God has no SOUL.(psyche)

God is SPIRIT. (worship Him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH) John 4:24

Man has a Body/Soul combo which is mortal.
Man has a SPIRIT which is immortal.
Soul and SPIRIT are separate and different. SPIRIT "communes" with Soul.

Ecclesiastes 12...Remember God in Your Youth: AT DEATH, SPIRIT returns to God
Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near when you will say, “I have no delight in them”;...
For man goes to his ETERNAL home while mourners go about in the street....
7 then the dust (Body/Soul combo) will return to the earth as it was, (Genesis 2:7)
and the SPIRIT (breath of life) will return to God who gave it. (Genesis 1:26)
8 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “all is vanity!”

Isaiah 42:5 Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
Who gives breath to the people on it (Body/Soul)
And SPIRIT to those who walk in it,

Zechariah 12:1 ...Thus declares the Lord
who stretches out the heavens,
lays the foundation of the earth, and
forms the SPIRIT of man within him,

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your 1. SPIRIT and 2. SOUL and 3. BODY be preserved complete,
without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

THUS: ManKIND is divided into 3 parts:
1. SPIRIT = (~God conscience/ spiritual GOD Image = pneuma),
2. SOUL = (~psyche / personality / God CHARACTER~ Likeness = psyche) and
3. BODY = (~man's machine, controlled by brain bucket/CNS = sarx/SOMA)

The SOUL of Mankind (male and female) is also a DYNAMIC REACTION of its 3 parts:
1. MIND...the process of intellect...stored knowledge...its function is "thinking" / "reasoning"
2. WILL...your decision maker...your computer-reactor...your balancer
3. EMOTIONS...how you "feel"...natural reactions / intuitive responses

The Body of Man has its 5 senses / sensors (maybe 6?) to interact with environment....Biology 101

The Soul of Man is the "snowflake" individual personality which starts with some genetic predispositions and is generally developed in and around the brain "bucket" and CNS electrical conductions...Psychology 101

The Spirit of Man searches for its Creator,..Bible 101
At the time of salvation, the battle begins:
OLD MAN: BODY / SOUL against God ...VERSUS... NEW MAN: BODY / SOUL / Indwelling God The Holy SPIRIT.

Jewish tradition (?) believed that you:
1. KNOW in your "heart"...Spirit / conscience
2. FEEL in your "gut"...emotions
3. DECIDE in your "head"/brain...mind
Thank you. :)
 
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Phantasman

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I recently came across Ian Clayton. He teaches to use the sword of the spirit to separate your spirit from your soul. He says he seperated his and freed his Spirit to surround his body. He says it's great and we should do it.
I think if God wanted it that way he would have made it that way.
When I have used separating soul and spirit it has only been in a delivence setting to remove the evil spirits from the wounded soul. NEVER did it cross my mind to break apart out own soul and spirit.
I'd love your thoughts. Thank you!

I agree with him. But on a deeper scale. We use the mind to understand the difference between the soul and spirit.

Gospel of Mary:
9) Blessed are you that you did not waver at the sight of Me. For where the mind is there is the treasure.
10) I said to Him, Lord, how does he who sees the vision see it, through the soul or through the spirit?
11) The Savior answered and said, He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind that is between the two that is what sees the vision

The sword is a spiritual vision. The soul animates the flesh (since the beginning). Adam and Eve (myth) is the natural man ( and woman). Imperfect (IMO) and without knowledge (truth). The Tree gave them the truth, by giving them the spirit (which is from the Father).

The spirit is perfect (as the Father is perfect). The soul imperfect ( in that it sins).

Paul says:
As it is also written, The first man Adam was made a living soul: and the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Jesus came to show and speak of the Spirit (which the Father is). He became Christ when the Holy Spirit entered him at the Chrism (baptism) and immediately taught spirit by spirit. That it is a gift we can receive. Man had never had it. So he had to explain it first.

John 7:39
(This spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed in him, should receive: for the holy Ghost was not yet given, because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

He gave it to his disciples before he rose to the Father.

The sword is a spiritual teaching to severe the flesh from the spirit. People read Luke 14:26 and are bothered by it. But Jesus said call no man on earth father. As Gods children we have one Father. Hate the flesh (father) love the spirit (Father). Same with mother, brothers, etc.

John:
That which is born of the flesh, is flesh: and that that is born of the Spirit, is spirit.
Romans:
For the wisdom of the flesh is death: but the wisdom of the Spirit is life and peace,

Romans:
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The sword separated soul/flesh and the spirit. The soul is a conduit to the flesh, but the spirit is a conduit to the Father. It returns to him in perfection, with or without the soul. The flesh profits nothing.
 
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METHINKS: the "separating of soul and spirit" theory is NOT Biblical.

The Body/Soul combo "houses" Man's SPIRIT...AND...for believers only...the permanently indwelling God the Holy Spirit Who communes, comforts, and guides Man's SPIRIT into the will of God.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20
Or do you not know that your BODY (/SOUL) is a "temple"(house?) of (God) the Holy Spirit who is IN you,
whom you have from God (the Father), and that you are not your own?
For you have been bought with a price:(God the Son) therefore glorify God in your body.

SOUL (psyche) and SPIRIT (pneuma) are already "separate" and different at birth..

Hebrews 4:12
For the "word of God" is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword,
and piercing as far as the division of SOUL (PSYCHE) and SPIRIT (PNEUMA),
of both joints and marrow (BODY/SARX-SOMA),
and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the "heart".

of the heart...GREEK 2588...kardia...denotes the (INTERACTIVE) centre of all physical and spiritual life
b.of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence c.of the will and character (CONSCIENCE?)

And now for the LONG ANALYSIS:

Let's do some spiritual math!

God created Man in His own SPIRITUAL Image, Likeness (Genesis 1:26)

God has no BODY.(sarx) God has no SOUL.(psyche)

God is SPIRIT. (worship Him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH) John 4:24

Man has a Body/Soul combo which is mortal.
Man has a SPIRIT which is immortal.
Soul and SPIRIT are separate and different. SPIRIT "communes" with Soul.

Ecclesiastes 12...Remember God in Your Youth: AT DEATH, SPIRIT returns to God
Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near when you will say, “I have no delight in them”;...
For man goes to his ETERNAL home while mourners go about in the street....
7 then the dust (Body/Soul combo) will return to the earth as it was, (Genesis 2:7)
and the SPIRIT (breath of life) will return to God who gave it. (Genesis 1:26)
8 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “all is vanity!”

Isaiah 42:5 Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
Who gives breath to the people on it (Body/Soul)
And SPIRIT to those who walk in it,

Zechariah 12:1 ...Thus declares the Lord
who stretches out the heavens,
lays the foundation of the earth, and
forms the SPIRIT of man within him,

1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your 1. SPIRIT and 2. SOUL and 3. BODY be preserved complete,
without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

THUS: ManKIND is divided into 3 parts:
1. SPIRIT = (~God conscience/ spiritual GOD Image = pneuma),
2. SOUL = (~psyche / personality / God CHARACTER~ Likeness = psyche) and
3. BODY = (~man's machine, controlled by brain bucket/CNS = sarx/SOMA)

The SOUL of Mankind (male and female) is also a DYNAMIC REACTION of its 3 parts:
1. MIND...the process of intellect...stored knowledge...its function is "thinking" / "reasoning"
2. WILL...your decision maker...your computer-reactor...your balancer
3. EMOTIONS...how you "feel"...natural reactions / intuitive responses

The Body of Man has its 5 senses / sensors (maybe 6?) to interact with environment....Biology 101

The Soul of Man is the "snowflake" individual personality which starts with some genetic predispositions and is generally developed in and around the brain "bucket" and CNS electrical conductions...Psychology 101

The Spirit of Man searches for its Creator,..Bible 101
At the time of salvation, the battle begins:
OLD MAN: BODY / SOUL against God ...VERSUS... NEW MAN: BODY / SOUL / Indwelling God The Holy SPIRIT.

Jewish tradition (?) believed that you:
1. KNOW in your "heart"...Spirit / conscience
2. FEEL in your "gut"...emotions
3. DECIDE in your "head"/brain...mind
I appreciate your detailed response. Sorry for the quick reply earlier. I was on my way out to Discipleship Training.
 
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That's seems like an OK task.
Visualization is a very useful tool.
You would be surprised! I have been taught how to take people to the Courts of Heaven in their "imagination" as a deliverance method. Not everyone sees and how vividly they see varies from vague to intense. But of EVERYONE who sees it describes everything evactally the same way in detail. We don't lead or tell them the details. I have been there too. It is a REAL place you are able to gain access to the spirit relm through your imagination. After a dozen people tell you specific details they would not know about and they all are identical any doubt leaves! Lol
 
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SkyWriting

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You would be surprised! I have been taught how to take people to the Courts of Heaven in their "imagination" as a deliverance method. Not everyone sees and how vividly they see varies from vague to intense. But of EVERYONE who sees it describes everything evactally the same way in detail. We don't lead or tell them the details. I have been there too. It is a REAL place you are able to gain access to the spirit relm through your imagination. After a dozen people tell you specific details they would not know about and they all are identical any doubt leaves! Lol
It may be real but I'm not sure it's from God.
 
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Wow. Is there a judge in this court?
There most certainly is!! It is a VERY COOL experience! Everyone in my discipleship training has been through it. Pastor Scott took me there and then connected me to that group because I wanted to know how to get others there. It's EASY. :)
I'm happy to teach anyone who is interested. :)
 
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alex2165

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I think that the spirit and the soul are the same thing, but both used as a figure of speech which is often appear in the Bible. Also such a word as “heart” used in the Bible to define certain spiritual context of individual, which is also figure of speech.

For example: GOD hardened pharaoh’s heart about 5 times during the period of Exodus, but not the physical heart but the spirit of pharaoh, so the “heart” here is only a figure of speech, a metaphor. See Ezekiel 18.31, Ezekiel 36.26.

Many people stumble on the verse mentioned here by Ron Gurley Hebrews 4:12. And some people assume that we have spirit and soul in our physical body and some of the Adventist thinks that a soul is our actual physical body.

When GOD created Adam, Adam was just a corpse. Adam had body and was fully made by GOD from his hair to his toes, but he was not alive. What makes Adam alive is a Breath of the Lord, and only when Adam became a living being. See Zechariah 12.1.

GOD did not Breath into Adam twice or more times but only once to make him alive. This means that Adam received only one part of GOD’S everlasting Spirit, another words, GOD’S ENERGY OF LIFE (not the Holy Spirit as some mistakenly think), to be alive, and nothing else. With this everlasting ENERGY of GOD’S Spirit, Adam also received intelligence. Therefore, it is have been said that Adam was made in the image of GOD, not physical image, but intellectual spiritual image and became a possessor of all spiritual qualities and feelings that GOD Himself have.

The only difference between spirit and souls can be found in certain description of the spiritual status of different individuals. For example, if a person ungodly he or she can be considered as a person of soul (in some languages of the world the word “soul” has extension to identify a person as “souler” or in other similar variation, all depends on language used, which means a person with soul (alive) but not religious.

A religious, a spiritual person, who accepted and worship GOD called as spiritual person, he or she has a spirit (soul of whom converted to spirit), and as Scripture said, in such people the Holy Spirit of GOD abides.

Explanation to this phenomenon is this that a soul (life giving energy of GOD) of a person is converted to a spirit, changed to a much higher status due to belief in the Lord, and because of it a person became a spiritual person.

Note that such person did not received any additional spirit to his soul, but his or her soul was change and converted to spirit according to faith in GOD, and such a person rightfully can be called now as a spiritual person. Without faith in GOD such person will remain only as a person of soul, alive, but not religious, because he or she did not dedicate their soul to GOD in order to be spiritual and convert their souls to a spirit in which GOD will abide.

But these differences between soul and spirit described only from a human point of view, but in the Bible soul and spirit always intermixed together and in general identifying one or another spiritual condition or status of a person.

To GOD Father and to Jesus Christ both these terms “spirit” and “souls” applied equally without any difference.

Isaiah 42.1

1."Here is My Servant Whom I uphold, My chosen, in Whom My Soul delights, I have put My Spirit upon Him, He will bring forth justice to the nations." See also Matthew 12.17-18, . 1Thessalonians 5. 23.

See, GOD does not have both Souls and Spirit, but and as a figure of speech identified His LIFE GOVING ENERGY as Souls and as Spirit, which are the same thing in this context and in others throughout the Bible.

But in prophesy about Jesus Christ Isaiah wrote:

Isaiah 53.11

11."As a result of the anguish of His Soul, He will see it and be satisfied. By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many as He will bear their iniquities."

Of course Jesus Christ is a Spiritual Person and possessed Holy Spirit of His Father, but here His Spirit was called as a Soul, which can be interpreted and understood as His Holy Spirit, no any difference in both of these cases between soul and spirit.

So separation of the spirit and soul written in Hebrews 4.12, from human point of view is a separation of soul (life giving energy of GOD) from spirit that has faith in GOD, which means that the Word of GOD separates ungodly soul of a person from godly spirit of the same person, in order to make that person completely godly, another explanation that Word of GOD killed ungodly soul in order to give life to godly spirit in that person, which all are figure of speech under this context. But in reality the Word of GOD converts a soul of a person into a spirit in order for a person to be a spiritual being.

In Ezekiel 37.4-10 the Spirit of GOD described as a Breath (LIFE GIVING ENERGY) that gave life to multitude of corpses, which is exactly as it was described in Genesis when GOD Breath was given to Adam.

So the point is that spirit, soul, Breath of GOD, identify same thing, spiritual context of GOD and human beings as one spiritual life form, and there is no other spiritual forms of any kind are present. The only difference that our spirit (soul) can be holy or not holy.

Concerning instances there Holy Spirits descends on certain people, it descends on people for a certain purpose, to do certain work that otherwise will be impossible for human being to do without GOD’S help, but after when goal is accomplished, the Holy Spirit of GOD usually departs from such person.

John 3.6.

6. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 4.24

24.GOD is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Romans 2.28-29

28.For a person is not a Jew, who is one outwardly nor is true, circumcision something external and physical.

29.Rather a person is a Jew, who is one inwardly and real, circumcision is a matter of the heart, it is spiritual and not literal. Such a person receives praise not from others, but from GOD.

(Verses 25-29. Spiritual and Physical Circumcision: (Leviticus 26.41) (Deuteronomy 10.16, 30.6) (Jeremiah 4.4, 9.25-26) (Ezekiel 44.7.9) (To Romans 2.25-29) (Colossians 2.11-13) (1Corinthians 7.19)

Romans 5.5

5.and hope does not disappoint us, because GOD’S love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us.

1Corinthinas 2.11-15

11.What human being knows what is truly human, except the human spirit that is within? So also no one comprehend what is truly GOD’S, except the Spirit of GOD.

12.Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from GOD, so that we may understand the gifts bestowed on us by GOD.

13.And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom, but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual.

14.Those who are unspiritual do not receive the gifts of GOD’S Spirit, they are foolishness to them and they are unable to understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.


15.Those who are spiritual discern ("But he who is spiritual appraises" KSB) all things, and they are themselves subject to no one else’s scrutiny.
 
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WOW! What two of my teachers have said makes sense now. Thank you.
I understand the soul. I have to because I assist the healing of soul wounds with Jesus.
I know the soul is where are emotions. I know demons can and do use soul wounds as open doors to get in.
But I grew up thunking we were spirits with a soul in a body. So i always thought that.
My teachers say the "spirit" part of an unbeliever is just empty or dead. But upon salvation the Holy Spirit comes in.
So what you said lines up with that and it's more clear to me now.
I appreciate all the time you took to write such a long post to me.
It's 4:30 am and I can't really see what I'm typing on my phone (old eyes- Jesus restore them.please!) So hope there aren't many typos or funny auto "corrects" lol
God bless you.
 
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Phantasman

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WOW! What two of my teachers have said makes sense now. Thank you.
I understand the soul. I have to because I assist the healing of soul wounds with Jesus.
I know the soul is where are emotions. I know demons can and do use soul wounds as open doors to get in.
But I grew up thunking we were spirits with a soul in a body. So i always thought that.
My teachers say the "spirit" part of an unbeliever is just empty or dead. But upon salvation the Holy Spirit comes in.
So what you said lines up with that and it's more clear to me now.
I appreciate all the time you took to write such a long post to me.
It's 4:30 am and I can't really see what I'm typing on my phone (old eyes- Jesus restore them.please!) So hope there aren't many typos or funny auto "corrects" lol
God bless you.

Close enough. The baptism of water (actually no water needed) is the understanding we have spirit and become born of spirit over flesh, and to pursue Gods will. The fire baptism (Chrism) is the point that we have become spiritually glorified to understand the Holy Spirit (made a home for her). At that point we become the sons of the living Father. Jesus couldn't give the spirit until he was glorified, and the disciples (and man) cannot receive it until they are glorified (in the Father).

How I see it anyways.
 
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