Pretribulational rapture or Post tribulation rapture?

kirthika

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I brothers and sisters in Christ,Being a new Beliver,I always have this doubt?? Will there be a pretribulational or post tribulational or Mid tribulational Rapture,or no Rapture at all??Some people say there will be no rapture,Which is correct?? And plaease quote me from scriptures regarding this assertion,Which amongst is likely Going To occur,Some people say there will be no rapture,But Heavy Persecution happen and all christians will die and the wrath Of God will come on this unbelieving world,Which is more true,Please answer
 

kirthika

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Depending on who you ask, you'll get a different answer. Personally, as I uphold the traditional view of the Church, I do not see any rapture coming.
So wont there be any rapture? What is the biblical view Of Rapture?
 
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Adstar

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I brothers and sisters in Christ,Being a new Beliver,I always have this doubt?? Will there be a pretribulational or post tribulational or Mid tribulational Rapture,or no Rapture at all??Some people say there will be no rapture,Which is correct?? And plaease quote me from scriptures regarding this assertion,Which amongst is likely Going To occur,Some people say there will be no rapture,But Heavy Persecution happen and all christians will die and the wrath Of God will come on this unbelieving world,Which is more true,Please answer

I did this write up a few years ago about the rapture.. I hope it helps you in your seeking..


I am a post-trib rapture believer. People tend to get overly passionate about their rapture timing beliefs which is sad because rapture timing should not be seen as a central doctrine of our faith. It is a disputable matter. We should not be straining at a gnat.


You asked for my input on the matter. Well i will post what i have posted on earlier threads related to rapture.


The Day of the Lord is the Day of the Messiah's Second Coming Jesus describes what will happen on that day. I will bold the words i wish you to take close note of.



Matthew 24

27For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


So After the tribulation Jesus will return and gather the elect to Him.


There is another Rapture verse spoken of by Jesus that links the Day of the Lord to the Rapture.


Luke 17

29but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31" In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left."


When will the Son of Man (Messiah Jesus) be revealed? At His second coming the Day of the Lord. Who will take the sleeping man and the woman grinding and the man working in the field? The angels sent out in Matthew 24 verse 21


It is also nice to note that Jesus revealed that this will be a world wide event because at the time of His return it will be day on one half of the world "In that day" and it will be night on the other half of the world "in that night"


Also this will be an event that will take place in a twinkling of an eye Paul reveals the rapture and its timing at the Last trumpet this scripture is probably the best rapture supporting scripture in the bible:



1 Corrinthians15:

49And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.


Here Paul is saying that as we inhabit earthly bodies derived from dust so shall we inhabit new bodies changed and not made of dust. Paul goes on to explain why:



50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.


So the bodies that we inhabit cannot enter the Kingdom of God and also "corruption" dead bodies must also be changed also. Then Paul reveals a mystery:



51Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


So Paul is saying that "we shall not all sleep" now I hope everyone can agree that he is talking about physical death here? Paul is saying not everyone will experience physical death. He goes on to say that "we shall all be changed" both the dead and the living "in a moment", now at this point it could be argued that both the dead and the living could be changed in a moment in time, but at different times. That is to say the moment is only referring to the time it takes to change, not at the same moment. But we read on and Paul states the moment will be. "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet." So not only shall both the living and the dead be changed to inherit the Kingdom of God But they will both change at the same moment, at the last trumpet. As He goes on to say "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Paul goes on to explain it in more detail:



53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory.


So here again we see Paul referring to the two states of being that the saints will be in at the time of the 1st Resurrection/Rapture "So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality," Dead saints and living saints caught up together in a twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet.


So from what we have read the first resurrection and the rapture (although different experiences for them that take part) will happen at the same instant in time at the last trumpet.


So now we go on to the next scripture this is the last trumpet revealed in the book of Revelation:




Revelation10

7but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.


Now the sounding of the seventh Angel is the last of a series of seven trumpets in revelation. Note that the scripture says the "Mystery of God would be finished" now the coming of the Messiah has been described by scripture at a coming in the sky (a darkened sky) and all people will see Him. Now after this event there will be on ifs or buts about the Mystery of God because all will see that God is and who He is. Everyone will know from that moment on, there will be no Mystery left. As for the darkening of the sky this is described as happening beforehand on the sounding of the forth trumpet:



Revelation 8

12 Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.



Now This brings up the belief in two resurrections. The resurrection of the saints that happens at the second coming and the resurrection of the rest of mankind at the end of the 1000 years for the great final Judgement. The Book of Revelation chapter 20 clearly states that their will be two distinct resurrections one at the return of the Messiah Jesus and another at the end of the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus:



Revelation 20


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.


satanic Rebellion Crushed

(1) 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[2] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.



The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[3] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books




I hope this has been a blessing to you Robert :) But no matter what you come to believe on the issue of rapture timing as long as we are ready to die today and face the Lord we are ready for rapture no matter when it happens and we are ready for tribulation no matter where it comes from ;)




All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
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BABerean2

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I brothers and sisters in Christ,Being a new Beliver,I always have this doubt?? Will there be a pretribulational or post tribulational or Mid tribulational Rapture,or no Rapture at all??Some people say there will be no rapture,Which is correct?? And plaease quote me from scriptures regarding this assertion,Which amongst is likely Going To occur,Some people say there will be no rapture,But Heavy Persecution happen and all christians will die and the wrath Of God will come on this unbelieving world,Which is more true,Please answer

The following reveal the original source of the pretrib doctrine that was brought to America by John Nelson Darby, about the time of the Civil War.

It was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, which helped the doctrine spread like a virus through the modern Evangelical Church.


Even though many today have never heard Darby's name, they have picked up bits and pieces of the doctrine.

Genesis of Dispensational Theology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee4RS5pDntQ

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
PDF Files

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf



.
 
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LoricaLady

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I had been listening to preachers on the radio who taught pre trib. When 9/11 came I read Revelation very, very carefully. There was zero about any pre trib rapture there, and there is none in the Bible at all. When people start claiming it is real they have to read between the lines and say "Well, this over here means such and such and that over there means such and other such."

The pre trib rapture is kind of insulting to all the people who have suffered horrifically for their faith, and still do so today in vast numbers. I personally always get the feeling that pre tribbers are thinking, "Yeal, well THOSE people have had to suffer, but before things get to tough for ME, I'm gonna be beamed out of here."

The Bible clearly says "In the world, there will be tribulation."
 
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jgr

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I had been listening to preachers on the radio who taught pre trib. When 9/11 came I read Revelation very, very carefully. There was zero about any pre trib rapture there, and there is none in the Bible at all. When people start claiming it is real they have to read between the lines and say "Well, this over here means such and such and that over there means such and other such."

The pre trib rapture is kind of insulting to all the people who have suffered horrifically for their faith, and still do so today in vast numbers. I personally always get the feeling that pre tribbers are thinking, "Yeal, well THOSE people have had to suffer, but before things get to tough for ME, I'm gonna be beamed out of here."

The Bible clearly says "In the world, there will be tribulation."
Fully concur.
 
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keras

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I brothers and sisters in Christ,Being a new Beliver,I always have this doubt?? Will there be a pretribulational or post tribulational or Mid tribulational Rapture,or no Rapture at all??Some people say there will be no rapture,Which is correct?? And plaease quote me from scriptures regarding this assertion,Which amongst is likely Going To occur,Some people say there will be no rapture,But Heavy Persecution happen and all christians will die and the wrath Of God will come on this unbelieving world,Which is more true,Please answer
Nowhere in the Bible does it say God will take the Church to heaven. In fact Jesus specifically says such a thing is impossible; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, +
We are earth beings and our task and destiny is be God's witnesses and the Light to the nations. We do that now, but will in a greater way, soon after the Lord has cleared all of the holy Land in the forthcoming Lord's Day of wrath, the Sixth seal disaster that will change the world.
 
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LoricaLady

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Nowhere in the Bible does it say God will take the Church to heaven. In face Jesus specifically says such a thing is impossible; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, +
We are earth beings and our task and destiny is be God's witnesses and the Light to the nations. We do that now, but will in a greater way, soon after the Lord has cleared all of the holy Land in the forthcoming Lord's Day of wrath, the Sixth seal disaster that will change the world.
Though I do not believe in a pretrib rapture that is different from the topic of the martyred being in Heaven. Here is a scene in Heaven during the Tribulation, from Revelation 6.

9 When He (the Lamb) broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained [out of loyalty to Christ]. 10 They cried in a loud voice, saying, “O Lord, holy and true, how long now before You will sit in judgment and avenge our blood on those [unregenerate ones] who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe; and they were told to rest and wait quietly for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers and sisters who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed.
 
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keras

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Though I do not believe in a pretrib rapture that is different from the topic of the martyred being in Heaven. Here is a scene in Heaven during the Tribulation, from Revelation 6.
Yes, they are faithful Christians who loved not their life unto death. Their souls are kept under the Altar in heaven and we see that when the Lord destroys 'Babylon': Revelation 18:1-24, then they praise God for their vindication. Revelation 19:1-3
 
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sdowney717

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Yes, they are faithful Christians who loved not their life unto death. Their souls are kept under the Altar in heaven and we see that when the Lord destroys 'Babylon': Revelation 18:1-24, then they praise God for their vindication. Revelation 19:1-3

Our citizenship is in heaven. Citizenship, means your native country, where you were born and may also likely live. Someday heaven and earth will join together.
v20 is describing the 'rapture' event.
Which occurs at the second advent, when Christ returns.
Wherever Christ is, there we will be. Absent from the body means present with the Lord.

Philippians 3:20-21New King James Version (NKJV)
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
 
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keras

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Our citizenship is in heaven. Citizenship, means your native country, where you were born and may also likely live. Someday heaven and earth will join together.
v20 is describing the 'rapture' event.
Which occurs at the second advent, when Christ returns.
Wherever Christ is, there we will be. Absent from the body means present with the Lord.
It is not necessary for a citizen of one country to live there. Many people live outside of their ethnic land.
Plainly what Paul said in Phil 3:20 is a case in point. We, as faithful Christians have God's promise to be His people and our rights of citizenship and of Eternal life are kept in heaven, to be realized after the Millennium, when God and therefore: heaven, come down to earth to dwell with those found worthy. Revelation 21:1-7
It is only wishful thinking that sees a 'rapture to heaven' at the Return of Jesus, there.
 
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Another Lazarus

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Why would God rapture His church after the tribulation is over (post trib. rapture), antichrist is dead and the world returns to peace ??????? What are you running away from ???????

The wise virgins shall be taken to the Feast of the Lamb and the foolish virgins shall be left in the tribulation.

 
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sdowney717

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It is not necessary for a citizen of one country to live there. Many people live outside of their ethnic land.
Plainly what Paul said in Phil 3:20 is a case in point. We, as faithful Christians have God's promise to be His people and our rights of citizenship and of Eternal life are kept in heaven, to be realized after the Millennium, when God and therefore: heaven, come down to earth to dwell with those found worthy. Revelation 21:1-7
It is only wishful thinking that sees a 'rapture to heaven' at the Return of Jesus, there.
Not wishful thinking, there is a rapture, the rapture is a gathering to Christ as He returns from heaven.
It is not a secret rapture that occurs, when Christ returns He is highly visible to all eyes.

Revelations 1
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Even the dead in hell will see His return.
When He returns we are caught up to be with Him in the air, that is the 'rapture'.

Here is the rapture event. And it happens at His return to earth.
Paul also emphasizes this is the Lord's word, not his own word, not a commentary.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17New King James Version (NKJV)
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
 
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BABerean2

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Not wishful thinking, there is a rapture, the rapture is a gathering to Christ as He returns from heaven.
It is not a secret rapture that occurs, when Christ returns He is highly visible to all eyes.

Revelations 1
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Even the dead in hell will see His return.
When He returns we are caught up to be with Him in the air, that is the 'rapture'.

Here is the rapture event. And it happens at His return to earth.
Paul also emphasizes this is the Lord's word, not his own word, not a commentary.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17New King James Version (NKJV)
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 
Rev 11:16  And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 
Rev 11:17  Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 
Rev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 



The judgment of "all" the dead is found in John 5:27-30.

.
 
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keras

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Not wishful thinking, there is a rapture, the rapture is a gathering to Christ as He returns from heaven.
It is not a secret rapture that occurs, when Christ returns He is highly visible to all eyes.
When Jesus Returns, there will be a 'harpazo', a gathering of those who remain to where Jesus is. Matthew 24:30-31 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
This is NOT a rapture to heaven, just a transportation, similar to what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39

Where shall we always be with the Lord? On earth: as He reigns for the next 1000 years, then God and therefore heaven, come down to dwell with mankind. Revelation 21:1-7
 
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sdowney717

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When Jesus Returns, there will be a 'harpazo', a gathering of those who remain to where Jesus is. Matthew 24:30-31 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
This is NOT a rapture to heaven, just a transportation, similar to what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39

Where shall we always be with the Lord? On earth: as He reigns for the next 1000 years, then God and therefore heaven, come down to dwell with mankind. Revelation 21:1-7
Well, yes, the 'rapture' as it is commonly thought of and taught is a lie.
 
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